IS BURKA ILLEGAL?

[hayat84]

:salam2:,I often ask to myself<why are there some women who dress the Burka?>I also saw that someone of them covers the hands with black gloves:it's nearly impossible to talk to them because they walk fast.But I'd really like to know something more about Burka and I above all I need some news about dressing it,because Italy has forbidden to wear this type of clothes,because of terrorists danger.Is the Burka forbidden in other parts of the Europe?France too wants to forbid the Burka and the veil which simply covers the face,becase it may be an offense to the French ethic:so I ask:where are the rights of women?If I,for example,wish to wear the Burka during my walk,may I risk to take a fine for guilt of it?Even if I'm Italian,I don't agree with those who want to look everyone in the eyes,so pleas tell me if Burka is legal or not:salam2:

 

[Salem9022]

You mean Niqaab right??? Many Scholars of Islam say it's obligatory for a women to wear Niqaab that the face is also Awraah. Matter of fact that is the Major Opinion amoung the scholars.

So Regardless what the Kuffar say, their opinions don't have any say in Islam.

 

[hana*]

well today, a british political party named UKIP is aiming to ban niqab here in Britain. why cant they just leave us Muslims alone, its getting frustrating now. why cant they focus on other problems such as alcoholism or gun crime of theft etc?!!!

its okay for a woman to walk down the street wearing next to nothing on a cold January day, and nobody raises an eyebrow!

 

[True_Sultan]

:salam2:,I often ask to myself<why are there some women who dress the Burka?>I also saw that someone of them covers the hands with black gloves:it's nearly impossible to talk to them because they walk fast.But I'd really like to know something more about Burka and I above all I need some news about dressing it,because Italy has forbidden to wear this type of clothes,because of terrorists danger.Is the Burka forbidden in other parts of the Europe?France too wants to forbid the Burka and the veil which simply covers the face,becase it may be an offense to the French ethic:so I ask:where are the rights of women?If I,for example,wish to wear the Burka during my walk,may I risk to take a fine for guilt of it?Even if I'm Italian,I don't agree with those who want to look everyone in the eyes,so pleas tell me if Burka is legal or not:salam2:

I live in Canada so i know nothing about whats happening in Europe. I find it funny how there like oh, covering oneself is a threat of terrrorism. I mean wow, look if your logical about it terrorism is an activist group or a group against something that uses fear tactics to get what they need. Also almost all of human race had conncections of using these tactics. What they are affraid of is that a women might hide a bomb or a concealed arms under that type of clothing when infact violence is against islam and a women covers herself so they are protected from the evil eye and lust. They just don't get it. What i say is focus on something else, its all urban and politcal disfunction, there is no logic behind it, its just lust and having power... This is just so sad for humanity...tisk tisk

 

[faustobiason]

well today, a british political party named UKIP is aiming to ban niqab here in Britain. why cant they just leave us Muslims alone, its getting frustrating now. why cant they focus on other problems such as alcoholism or gun crime of theft etc?!!!

its okay for a woman to walk down the street wearing next to nothing on a cold January day, and nobody raises an eyebrow!

It is a total shame that nowadays Islam seems to have become the whipping boy of the West, blamed for all the ills of our societies.
So, even if I am not a Muslim, I would be ferociously opposed to any measure that targeted hijab, jilbab and any type of headscarf; for instance my mother-in-law proudly wears hijab, no problem with that.

Regarding the niqab/burqa, a bit more debate is needed, but a calm and rational one, since here we do have a public security hazard.

Let's not forget that a leading campaigner against the niqab (at least in public places or on business permises) is a Muslim jeweller from Glasgow, Scotland (Mohamed ..... Something) who was robbed at gunpoint by niqabbed people, and -from what I can gather- the insurance company refused to pay out because
he let in "people with the face covered, therefore unidentifiable".

Fausto

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum

That is just such a foolish argument. It is purely emotional and irrational. People may do robberies in niqaabs, but they do far more in balaclavas, bandannas, with tights on their faces, masks and hoods etc. Yet, none of these have been banned!? I live in the UK, I just bumped into someone I knew from school, and he was with people whose faces were covered completely by balaclavas etc in a busy market, Europe's longest market in fact?! I don't see Police and Community officers stopping them, even though they are perhaps the prime method for face concealment, used in criminal activity. All they need to say is they're cold and they will be left alone.

This campaigner needs to come off his emotional rant of a campaign and come back to reality. I see bandanna's and balaclavas everywhere, worn by criminals or 'wanna-bes' who steal from children, stab people, sell drugs etc. Yet what niqaab wearing Muslimah does any of that? Yet, people are crying over the niqaab which is a means of safety and security for women.

It's like being headbutt by a Sikh and then campaigning against turbans arguing that they are offensive weapons. It's totally senseless. Speaking of which, by law they (Sikhs) are allowed to fulfil their religion through the carrying of knives (the 5 K's). Yet, in West London a big fight broke out where it seems some conflicting Sikh parties killed each other and as I heard (not confirmed) severed heads? Yet, it's perfectly fine for them to carry blades, while our women can't wear the niqaab without terrorism and the word 'threat' coming into the picture. Any reasonable, rationale human being (and animal) will feel a bigger threat from a blade, don't you think?

In summary, the campaigner is an imbecile, an embarrassing one at that.

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

assalamu alaykum

as far as I know, the niqab in Italy is not illegal at the moment. They are still discussing the law in the Parliament (we've sent letters and signed petitions to help the niqabi sisters in Italy, insha'Allah).

And as an Italian revert, wearing niqab, I can tell you that I'm doing more dawah covering myself like this alhamdulillah than before masha'Allah. Obviously, if we start to talk about "security", as brother Al-Kashmiri said, they can do robberies wearing bandannas too but they haven't been banned.... it's kind of a joke here, a way to pull down Islam the way "they" like.... subhanaAllah!

 

[hana*]

It is a total shame that nowadays Islam seems to have become the whipping boy of the West, blamed for all the ills of our societies.
So, even if I am not a Muslim, I would be ferociously opposed to any measure that targeted hijab, jilbab and any type of headscarf; for instance my mother-in-law proudly wears hijab, no problem with that.

Regarding the niqab/burqa, a bit more debate is needed, but a calm and rational one, since here we do have a public security hazard.

Let's not forget that a leading campaigner against the niqab (at least in public places or on business permises) is a Muslim jeweller from Glasgow, Scotland (Mohamed ..... Something) who was robbed at gunpoint by niqabbed people, and -from what I can gather- the insurance company refused to pay out because
he let in "people with the face covered, therefore unidentifiable".

Fausto

what? who was this Glaswegian? im from Glasgow and ive not heard of this story. what a lame excuse he gave to ban the Niqab. even if these people above who robbed did not have their face covered, he could not exactly predict the event!

the only real threat to society are the heroin dealers and addicts who are flourishing in society, and get everything paid for them by our taxes!!!!

 

[hana*]

As-salaamu `alaykum

That is just such a foolish argument. It is purely emotional and irrational. People may do robberies in niqaabs, but they do far more in balaclavas, bandannas, with tights on their faces, masks and hoods etc. Yet, none of these have been banned!? I live in the UK, I just bumped into someone I knew from school, and he was with people whose faces were covered completely by balaclavas etc in a busy market, Europe's longest market in fact?! I don't see Police and Community officers stopping them, even though they are perhaps the prime method for face concealment, used in criminal activity. All they need to say is they're cold and they will be left alone.

This campaigner needs to come off his emotional rant of a campaign and come back to reality. I see bandanna's and balaclavas everywhere, worn by criminals or 'wanna-bes' who steal from children, stab people, sell drugs etc. Yet what niqaab wearing Muslimah does any of that? Yet, people are crying over the niqaab which is a means of safety and security for women.

It's like being headbutt by a Sikh and then campaigning against turbans arguing that they are offensive weapons. It's totally senseless. Speaking of which, by law they (Sikhs) are allowed to fulfil their religion through the carrying of knives (the 5 K's). Yet, in West London a big fight broke out where it seems some conflicting Sikh parties killed each other and as I heard (not confirmed) severed heads? Yet, it's perfectly fine for them to carry blades, while our women can't wear the niqaab without terrorism and the word 'threat' coming into the picture. Any reasonable, rationale human being (and animal) will feel a bigger threat from a blade, don't you think?

In summary, the campaigner is an imbecile, an embarrassing one at that.

subhanAllah, very well said. actually i never thought of that with regards to the 5K's in sikhism- are you sure they are allowed to carry knives for this religious purpose? i always knew that anyone caught in posession of knives would be arrested instantly.

on a side note, i have drug addicts who come into my pharmacy everyday for their heroin replacement: some of them have knife slash marks across their faces and have been stabbed or at least have killed a few people or have been in jail a few times. yet nobody thinks twice about how much of a threat they can be. nobody seems to be protesting against them or raising an eyebrow. its sickening.

I guess at the end of the day, it is merely a targetted attack on Islam, which in turn will have a pendulum swing to the better, with more becoming interested in the faith, leading to more conversions- subhanAllah.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum

You are right sister. It seems to me that these days, that it makes one sound intelligent and active when they talk about the niqaab and it's 'threats' (I'm saying this in general, not to anyone in specific). It's almost like a fashion trend to have these views, you're not seen as liberal if you don't hold them. People are arguing the niqaab and turning a blind eye to all the obvious dangers that are causing real social problems. They don't give a damn about broken families for starts...

 

[faustobiason]

what? who was this Glaswegian? im from Glasgow and ive not heard of this story. what a lame excuse he gave to ban the Niqab. even if these people above who robbed did not have their face covered, he could not exactly predict the event!

the only real threat to society are the heroin dealers and addicts who are flourishing in society, and get everything paid for them by our taxes!!!!

here is the story

http://www.heraldscotland.com/asian-men-in-burkhas-rob-jewellers-1.906837

 

[faustobiason]

what? who was this Glaswegian? im from Glasgow and ive not heard of this story. what a lame excuse he gave to ban the Niqab. even if these people above who robbed did not have their face covered, he could not exactly predict the event!

the only real threat to society are the heroin dealers and addicts who are flourishing in society, and get everything paid for them by our taxes!!!!

I think that we need to strike a balance.
Yes, women have the right to dress as they wish, but if shopkeepers have security issues over someone entering their premises with their faces covered, these issues should be addressed, that's all, nothing Islamophobic, surely not from me, for God sake.
Fausto

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

Dear faustobiason,

Thank you for the link. A woman is allowed to lift her veil (for those who view it is an obligation) in business transactions and the likes. These matters aren't new, rather the Islamic scholars have outlines/derived these exceptions centuries ago.

There is an interesting event that comes to mind. In Philadelphia, PA, a robbery was carried about but three individuals (I think it was a bank). Two of the men wore niqaabs and jilbaabs and the other was dressed as a Rasta. The event led to a policeman being killed and one of the robbers too. There are many interesting things to note about what took place and how the local government handled it.

When the State Senator addressed the topic, he said the men, 'mocked Muslim dress'. Again, when it is found that all the men had beards (and at least one was Muslim) he didn't point to Islamic extremism (like they would in Europe), in fact he done the Muslims a favour by stating that the beard in Philadelphia is a contemporary fashion thing (which everyone who knows Philly can attest to), not having anything to do with Islaam.

Imagine the same occurrence here in England (or anywhere in Europe). Instead of mentioning the fact that the men mocked Muslim garb, an utterly senseless, unjustified niqaab ban would most probably be called. The beards would definitely lead to comments about the threat of shari`ah in Britain, and some comment or other on Islamic extremism would be thrown. Another array of anti-Islam articles in the press would be published too. Then, instead of asking everyday Muslims, Imams and leaders of our communities about the Islamic perspective of the event. They would deliberately go to minute factions like Al-Muhajiroon/Islam4UK, Anjem Choudary (spelling?), Omar Bakri to here their hate-filled comments, to make it look as though Islaam commends this activity...

 

[ummyasiin]

I can attest to it, its so sad that you cant reconized whos muslim and whos not, from the 3inches above the ankle to the big beards,....etc....but nobody wants to BE a muslim its jus cool to look like one, I swear I know the entire philly is not muslim but you cant even imagine how many salaams I get and cant tell you if they are really muslim or not.. So niqaab, gloves,burka and abiyas are certainly no issue here..we have a whole section in the city where you would think you was in mecca cause you see soooo much black...its love and annoyance all at once.

 

[hayat84]

salam'alikum,if really wearing niqab is going to be illegal in Italy too,I wish to challange the politicians by wearing it.I'm Italian,I reverted to Islam 3 years ago,I proudly wear hijab,I always liked to cover myself from the others' sight but now it's different,because I don't give any satisfaction to the others to look at my hair.Otherwise,I want to remark that there are lots of women who wear niqab:they are really pretty under that clothes.When I was in Morocco last year,one day I went to the Mosque to pray Salat al Jumu'a and I saw with my eyes a girl(she could be 25 or 26 years old)in her eyes and face:she was Beautiful!When the prayer finished I saw that she silenciously wore her Niqab,her black gloves and she run out without none to talk to her.I was fashinated from her pudic behaviour!It's possible,by myself that there are some women who doesn't like to show their face to anyone,because they are shy,pure and MU'MININ.It may be a way of life forthesemuslim women,and I suppose it will be difficult one day for them to uncover their faces,because of those who say to fear that some terrorist could be hidden there:itMaybe a violation of women's rights.Why don't politicians take care to their businesses?None has the right to oblige a woman to do what she doesn't want to do.If there are honest women who wear niqab,theymust be respected,soAStherights of the catholics and Ebrews are respected.But I deeply think that Italian politic is so weak,that wants to oblige women to uncover their faces,just because they want to humilate them and oblige them to behave like Occidental women.And if for example under that niqab is hidden a beauty woman,it would be a satisfaction for thosewho look at her,but an humilation for that woman who hid herself to respect her Sunna and allah SWT.It would be ashameful if really Italy too will forbid niqab(I firmly think that occident in general doesn't like Islam and they try to destroyit by creatig unjust laws which hurt the thought of whose who believe in the Otherlife and want none to look at them).I'm concious that lots crimes are committed by wearig bandanas or anything which can cover the face,but they mustn't touch the niqab,because it is above all a honest,pure and cast way of wearing for muslims women and as Politicians may don't recognize who hides nder bandanas or something else,they also pay attention,that under niqab may hides a Mu'min person.
As the Holy Quran briefly says to muslim women:<don't show your hair and jewels to everyone>(It's better if you read the 33th verse of Surat ann-nur,I can't translate each word from Italin to English,so if you read there,you may understand what I meant to say).
Why don't politicians think how to put over the cigarette or the alchoolics,istead of disturbing whose who are honest?Even if I don't wear Niqab(I hope In sh allah to do it one day),I wish to challange those who are going to oblige all women not to wear it,and I will see what they'll say when they'll find an Italian muslim woman.There are robbers so as there are honest people:this is the life,it is like a continous fight and I hope in sh allah,only the juste will overcome. SALAM 'ALIKUM and thank tou for your opinion and sorry for eventual writing mastakes

 

[faustobiason]

salam'alikum,if really wearing niqab is going to be illegal in Italy too,I wish to challange the politicians by wearing it.I'm Italian,I reverted to Islam 3 years ago,I proudly wear hijab,I always liked to cover myself from the others' sight but now it's different,because I don't give any satisfaction to the others to look at my hair.Otherwise,I want to remark that there are lots of women who wear niqab:they are really pretty under those clothes............................................................................................
......................................................................................................

Yes, at the moment the situation in Italy is really awful, with this sick man of Berlusconi in power depite all his huge conflicts of interest, and with so many people willing to vote for him or for arch-racist Lega Nord.

Anyway, Italy has always been a provincial country.

From what I can see in the UK Hijab and jilbab are regarded as an integral part of the nation's life, and no one objects against them, so no problem.

Regarding Burka/Niqab, I am not a shop-keeper, so I personally have no objections, but try and put yourselves in the shopkeeper's shoes: would you let them in (knowing that, in case of robbery, the insurance company will NOT pay out)? do you have a female security guard available? can you afford the cost of employing her?

Surely if a lady wears the burqa/niqab out of the sheer conviction that only her husband can see her face, it is a praiseworthy intention.
But let's get rid very quickly of the idea that niqab will give you protection.
I have recently read stories about Niqabbed women in Egypt being sexually harassed by gangs of youths EVEN WITH THEIR HUSBANDS PRESENT.

Fausto

 

[hana*]

jazakAllah khairan al-kashmiri for the informative replies which answer faustobiason and for faustobiason, thanks for providing the link, which i will read and dont worry - nobody thinks you were being islamophobic, i was just unaware of the story.

i have stopped reading the newspapers because, apart from being filled with islamophobia, racism, nationalism and filth- they are mainly of poor quality intelectually and are targeted mainly for narrow-minded folk who will believe anything they read.

just like al-kashmiri said in a previous thread, it is socially a fashion trend to have such views.

peace

 

[hana*]

salam'alikum,if really wearing niqab is going to be illegal in Italy too,I wish to challange the politicians by wearing it.I'm Italian,I reverted to Islam 3 years ago,I proudly wear hijab,I always liked to cover myself from the others' sight but now it's different,because I don't give any satisfaction to the others to look at my hair.Otherwise,I want to remark that there are lots of women who wear niqab:they are really pretty under that clothes.When I was in Morocco last year,one day I went to the Mosque to pray Salat al Jumu'a and I saw with my eyes a girl(she could be 25 or 26 years old)in her eyes and face:she was Beautiful!When the prayer finished I saw that she silenciously wore her Niqab,her black gloves and she run out without none to talk to her.I was fashinated from her pudic behaviour!It's possible,by myself that there are some women who doesn't like to show their face to anyone,because they are shy,pure and MU'MININ.It may be a way of life forthesemuslim women,and I suppose it will be difficult one day for them to uncover their faces,because of those who say to fear that some terrorist could be hidden there:itMaybe a violation of women's rights.Why don't politicians take care to their businesses?None has the right to oblige a woman to do what she doesn't want to do.If there are honest women who wear niqab,theymust be respected,soAStherights of the catholics and Ebrews are respected.But I deeply think that Italian politic is so weak,that wants to oblige women to uncover their faces,just because they want to humilate them and oblige them to behave like Occidental women.And if for example under that niqab is hidden a beauty woman,it would be a satisfaction for thosewho look at her,but an humilation for that woman who hid herself to respect her Sunna and allah SWT.It would be ashameful if really Italy too will forbid niqab(I firmly think that occident in general doesn't like Islam and they try to destroyit by creatig unjust laws which hurt the thought of whose who believe in the Otherlife and want none to look at them).I'm concious that lots crimes are committed by wearig bandanas or anything which can cover the face,but they mustn't touch the niqab,because it is above all a honest,pure and cast way of wearing for muslims women and as Politicians may don't recognize who hides nder bandanas or something else,they also pay attention,that under niqab may hides a Mu'min person.
As the Holy Quran briefly says to muslim women:<don't show your hair and jewels to everyone>(It's better if you read the 33th verse of Surat ann-nur,I can't translate each word from Italin to English,so if you read there,you may understand what I meant to say).
Why don't politicians think how to put over the cigarette or the alchoolics,istead of disturbing whose who are honest?Even if I don't wear Niqab(I hope In sh allah to do it one day),I wish to challange those who are going to oblige all women not to wear it,and I will see what they'll say when they'll find an Italian muslim woman.There are robbers so as there are honest people:this is the life,it is like a continous fight and I hope in sh allah,only the juste will overcome. SALAM 'ALIKUM and thank tou for your opinion and sorry for eventual writing mastakes

sister hayat, i absolutley admire your courage and strength; being a Muslim for three years and with such morale- may Allah raise you I totally agree with everything you said.

the reason why politicians dont focus on cigarettes and alcohol is because it brings in money. we have to remember that anything that involves modesty will be attacked from all corners and on all parts of the world, why? because shaytans sole ambition is to promote nakedness- thus when adam and hawwa ate from the tree, their modesty was gone for that time.

do you know that shaytan convinced the makkans pre-islam to cirle the ka'abah naked! and he succeeded in this! so shaytan will not stop until nakedness is rife- and he is succeeding!

in the end, we will fight for our rights and stand up to what we believe in till the last breath inshaAllah.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

Baarak Allaahu feeki.

Faustobiason, since we are on the topic, I decided to list the situations that some Muslim scholars say a woman may need to lift her veil. Contemplating on them, I don't think there would be any veil issue if the European population understood this. It may be a good idea to read the below link to understand the cases further.

1 - For marriage proposals
2 - Business dealings
3 - Medical treatment
4 - Giving testimony
5 - In court cases
6 - In front of mature men who feel no desire
7 - In front of men who feel no desire (due to impotency etc.)
8 - Old women
9 - In front of non-Muslim women
10 - Pilgrimage
11 - Compulsion

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2198/

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

:salam2:

well, you can be abused in any way you are dressed. Same for all those no-muslim women raped every year. Violence is everywhere.

As for the niqab being a protection or not, I think it would be more fair to ask a niqabi woman how she feels behind that veil masha'Allah!

for the link akhi Al-Kashmiri

:salam2: