Islam and Muslims in America before Columbus

IslamIsLight

Islam is my life
Staff member
assalamu aleikum
Very interesting facts and proofs that muslims lived in america before Columbus.Unbelivable!!!

April - June
2007 / Issue 58


Islam and Muslims in America before Columbus
By YUCEL, Salih

Historical facts concerning many established information on diverse fields continue to be unraveled to the astonishment of us all. One of these facts, previously little-known by many, is that Muslims had actually set foot on American soil centuries before Columbus’ illustrious expedition. We hope as you read ahead in this essay that some information and documents, excerpts from various sources, and the results of archeological excavations will demonstrate the truth of the aforementioned proposition.

Did the Companions of the Prophet go to America?

Research conducted in the West during the twentieth century has proven the existence of Muslims on the American mainland approximately seven centuries before Christopher Columbus. Similarly, archeological excavations, linguistic, and philological analyses of languages and settlement names in the region, the fact that coins, household tools and other utensils were discovered there that were similar to those of the Abbasids in the eighth and ninth centuries are all justifications of the theory that Muslims, beginning from 650 CE, made their way to the continent for settlement, during which time they erected mosques and schools, leaving a prolonged impact on the natives, i.e. American Indians.
The Islamic sources carry no information as regards Muslim settlement in America, although research undertaken by Professor Barry Fell of Harvard University confirms that Muslims reached the continent at the time of Uthman, the third Caliph, concomitantly indicating the significant possibility that some of the Companions could have arrived there as well.
Many Western researchers acknowledge the famous map of Piri Reis as proof of Muslim presence in America long before the endeavors of Columbus, as it minutely comprises the map of America, as well as extremely accurate measurements of the distance between America and Africa.

According to Salvatore Michael Trento, former director of the Center for Archeological Research in Middletown, New York, before embarking on his first voyage to America, Columbus had read the book of Roger Bacon of Oxford University, which comprised information, compiled from a variety of Arabic resources, about geographical regions on the other side of the Atlantic; hence Columbus’ previous knowledge of the islands in the Atlantic Ocean and other places.1

Proofs in Western sources

1. Professor Barry Fell, retired lecturer from Harvard University and also a member of the American Academy of Science and Arts, the Royal Society, the Epigraphy Society and the Society of Scientific and Archeological Discoveries, is adamant about the arrival of Islam in America in the 650s,2 predicating this argument upon the Cufic calligraphy belonging to that era found in various diggings across America. If the words of Professor Fell have truth-value, then the Muslims had arrived in America during the era of Uthman, or at least that of Ali, the fourth caliph. Such information, however, is not found in Muslim sources.

Professor Fell again uses the results of various archeological diggings undertaken across many regions in the states of Colorado, New Mexico, and Indiana to assert the construction of Muslim schools during 700-800 CE. Writings, drawings, and charts inscribed on rocks discovered in the most remote and untainted terrains of Western America are relics bestowed by the elementary and intermediate systems of Muslim education at the time. These documents were written in the old Cufic letters of North African Arabic, covering subjects such as reading, writing, arithmetic, religion, history, geography, mathematics, astronomy, and navigation. The descendants of these settlers are thought to be the current native tribes of Iroquois, Algonquin, Anasazi, Hohokam, and Olmec.

2. The second evidence offered by Professor Fell is that the inscription of “In the Name of God” (picture 1), found on a rock during archeological work in Nevada, belongs to the seventh century, when the haraka sign system had not yet been developed. Likewise, the stone bearing the inscription “Muhammad is the Prophet of God” (picture 2) is pertinent to the same era. As seen by comparison of the two pictures, the inscriptions are not in the style of Modern Arabic; conversely they are in a Cufic style relevant to the seventh century.3
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The Arabs, according to the findings of Professor Fell, settled in Nevada during the seventh and eighth centuries. The earlier existence of a school, which taught Islam and science, particularly navigation, has come to light following the archeological investigation undertaken by Professors Heizer and Baumhoff of California University around site WA 25 in Nevada. The excavations in Nevada have uncovered writings in Naskhi Arabic and Cufic style that are inscribed on rocks which carry information about this school (picture 3). The application of the mathematical formula “five diamonds equal an alif” (alif is the first letter of Arabic alphabet) may be seen in this picture (pictures 3b and 3c). The Arabic letters in pictures 3b and 3c, found amid excavations in Nevada, are in exactly the same style as North African Arabic. Again similarly, another rock was found in Nevada bearing the name “God”, the style of which is yet again reminiscent of the prevalent technique of seventh and eighth-century North Africa. The calligraphical similarities between various writing styles of the Prophet’s name over diverse periods, particularly those relating to Africa and America, found during archeological investigations are striking indeed. Figure A of picture 4 was found in al-Ain Lahag, Morocco and figure B in East Walker River; both are currently at the University of California. Figure C was discovered in Nevada and figures C and D were located in Churchill County and are also currently preserved at the University of California; likewise figure F was discovered in al-Haji Minoun, Morocco, while figure G, inscribed on ceramic, was revealed in al-Suk, Tripoli, Libya and figure H, at the University of California, was discovered at Cottonwood Canyon, while finally figure I was located on the border of Morocco and Libya. All these inscriptions belong to the eighth and ninth centuries, clearly illustrating the resemblance in style between North America and North Africa, as well as overtly suggesting a migration that occurred from Africa to America.
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3. In the twelfth century the Athapcan Tribe, comprised of native Apaches and Navajos, raided the area inhabited by the Arabs, who either ended up fleeing or were exiled toward the South. These illiterate natives were spellbound by the schools founded by the Arabs, and, perhaps with the assistance of captives, attempted to imitate the same subjects, transforming the geometrical shapes into mythical beasts, which carried on for centuries.

4. Picture 5 is the Cufic writing found in 1951 in the White Mountains, close to the town of Benton on the border of Nevada. The words Shaytan maha mayan, i.e. the Devil is the source of all lies, have been written in a Cufic style peculiar to the seventh century.
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5. Once more, a rock inscription belonging to post-650 CE, bearing the Cufic letters H-M-I-D of the word Hamid (picture

6), is another Arabic script discovered on the Atlata rocks in the Valley of Fire in Nevada.
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6. While traveling from Malden to Cambridge in the state of Massachusetts in 1787 (on what is now RT. 16), the Reverend Thaddeus Mason Harris noticed some coins discovered by workers during road construction. The workers, not putting much value on these coins, presented him with a handful. Consequently, Harris decided to send these coins to the library of Harvard College for examination (picture 7). The study yielded that these were in fact Samarqand dirhams from the eighth and ninth centuries. As can be seen in the picture, the coins manifestly display the inscriptions La ilaha ill-Allah Muhammadun Rasulullah (There is no deity but God, and Muhammad is His Messenger) and Bismillah (in the name of God).
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7. Picture 8 shows a piece of rock discovered in a cave in the region of Corinto in El Salvador, bearing the inscription Malaka Haji mi Malaya; this has been identified as belonging to the thirteenth century, suggesting a possible arrival of Muslims in South America, perhaps coming from somewhere near Indonesia.
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7. During his second voyage, Columbus was told by the natives of Espanola (Haiti) of black men who had appeared on the island before him and they showed him the lances that had been left there by these Africans to support their assertions. The tips of the lances were of a metal, an alloy of gold, which they called guanin, a word which is semantically remarkably similar to the Arabic word ghina, meaning richness. Columbus had in fact brought some of this guanin back to Spain, recording that it was composed of 56.25% gold, 18.75% silver and 25% copper, ratios that were prevalent in African Guinea as standards for the processing of metals.

8. On his third voyage to the New World, Columbus visited Trinidad, where the sailors noticed the symmetrically patterned cotton and colorful handkerchiefs of the natives. Afterward, Columbus realized that the handkerchiefs, which the natives called almayzar, were all much the same in color, style, and use as the headscarves and waist bands used in Guinea. The word almayzar is Arabic, and denotes a cover, tie, apron, or skirt, and is a component of the regional costumes of the Moors, Arabs and, Berbers of North Africa, who had conquered Spain in the eighth century. Columbus observed that the local women wore cotton garments and wrote in astonishment that they had learned of the concept namus, i.e. chastity. In much the same vein, Hernan Cortes, another Spanish explorer, later recorded that the clothing of local women consisted of long veils and skirts decorated with ornaments that were similar to those of the Moors. Ferdinand, Columbus’ son, was also quick to notice the resemblance between the cotton dresses of the natives and the ornamented shawls fashioned by Moorish women in Granada. The cradles used by the natives, furthermore, very closely resembled those of North Africa.

9. Columbus recorded on 21 October 1492 that he had noticed a mosque on top of a mountain while sailing around Cibara on the northeast coast of Cuba. Relics of mosques carrying Qur’anic inscriptions on their minarets have been found in Cuba, Mexico, Texas, and Nevada since these times.

10. Leo Weiner, a well-known Harvard historian and linguist, stated in his book The Discovery of Africa and America, written in 1920, that Columbus was aware of the existence of Mandinka, an ethnic group of West Africa, in the New World. The same book also affirms that Columbus was aware that West African Muslims were living across North America, including the south, middle regions and Canada, as well as in the Caribbean, and that they had marital and commercial ties with the native tribes of Iroque and Algonquin.

11. A preponderance of the voyages embarked upon by Columbus and other Spanish and Portuguese explorers toward the other side of the Atlantic were undertaken only in the light of the geographical and navigational knowledge prepared by Muslims. Al-Masudi’s (871-957 CE) work Muruj’uz-Zahab, for instance, was written with this sort of data compiled by Muslim traders from across Africa and Asia. Two of Columbus’ captains on the first voyage, in actual fact, were Muslims: Martin Alonso Pinzon was in charge of the Pinta, while his brother Vicente Yanez Pinzon was the designated captain of Nina; both were from the Moroccan Marinid dynasty, descendants of Sultan Abu Zayan Muhammad III (r. 1362-1366). Formerly well-to-do ship riggers, they assisted Columbus in organizing his voyage of exploration, preparing the Santa Maria, the flagship, and covering all its expenses.

12. Christopher Columbus has recorded the custom of nose piercing, which used to be and still popular in the Middle Eastern and Arab countries, as being prevalent in some islands across the Atlantic also mentions the writing of letters in Arabic.

13. In the account of sixteenth century missionaries in America, the local copper mines, found particularly in Virginia, Tennessee, and Wisconsin were not operated by the natives, but instead by people from the Middle East, towards whom the natives nurtured a profound sympathy.

14. A sum of 565 names, 484 in America and 81 in Canada, of villages, towns, cities, mountains, lakes, rivers and etcetera, are etymologically Arabic, designated by locals long before the arrival of Columbus. Many of these names are in fact the same as names of Islamic places; Mecca in Indiana, Medina in Idaho, Medina in New York, Medina and Hazen in North Dakota, Medina in Ohio, Medina in Tennessee, Medina in Texas, Medina and Arva in Ontario, Mahomet in Illinois and Mona in Utah, are just a few noticeable names at the outset. A closer analysis of the names of native tribes will immediately reveal their Arabic etymological ancestry; Anasazi, Apache, Arawak, Arikana, Chavin, Cherokee, Cree, Hohokam, Hupa, Hopi, Makkah, Mohician, Mohawk, Nazca, Zulu, and Zuni are only a few.

House and building Structures

Archeological excavations conducted throughout North America and North Africa reveal a corresponding architectural resemblance between ninth century buildings. The structure of a Berber house of the Atlas Mountains, Morocco (picture

9), for instance, is exactly the same as that of a house in New Mexico (picture 10). The same similarity can be traced between the Castle of Montezuma discovered in Arizona and the remnants found in Mesa Verde in Colorado and the general structure of Berber buildings (picture 11-12).
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The research undertaken by Professor Cyrus Thomas of the Smithsonian Institute shows that a small cabin built from piles of rock found in Ellenville, New York is virtually the same as the cabin, again of rock, found around Aqabah, Southern Arabia, both of which are thought to have been built around the start of the eighth century (picture 13).
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Arabic words prevalent among natives prior to the arrival of Eu ropeans
The pervasiveness of many Islamic words across the continent prior to European influx is verified by the following terms discovered in the regions currently known as New England and Nova Scotia, in America and Canada respectively. Fell pointed to some words as example of Arabic influence on Native Americans. All of the words listed below are derived from the Arabic language. However, time had eroded their original meanings and most are not used in Arabic today.
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The last Muslim stronghold in Spain, Granada, fell just before the Spanish Inquisition was established in 1492. Non-Christians were forced to either convert to Catholicism to save themselves from the tyranny of the Inquisition or were exiled from the country. Documents exist which prove the existence of immigrant Muslims in Spanish America before 1550. In 1539 an edict from Spanish King Charles V was put into practice which forbade the immigration of Muslims to settlements in the West. This edict was later expanded to expel all Muslims from overseas Spanish colonies in 1543. The existence of Muslims in overseas islands and regions was known along with the fact that the Spanish king issued such an edict. Again, in many Islamic sources, it is noted that Muslims living in Spain and North Africa made overseas voyages during the Andalusia period. Scientific research on this subject will bring out many documents into the daylight, documents which have escaped the notice of both Muslims in America and those throughout the world, which will perhaps serve, in the future if not immediately, as a starting point for a re-evaluation of the history of America.

Notes
1. Trento, Salvatore Michael. The Search for Lost America, p.15 Penguin Books, New York: 1978.
2. Fell, Dr. Barry. Saga America, p. 190, Time Books, New York: 1980.
3. ibid. p. xiv.
4. ibid. pp. 332-333.
5. ibid. pp. 333-334.
6 ibid. p. 182.
7. ibid. p. 243.
8. ibid. p. 26.
6. ibid. p. 276.
7. Teacher, John Boyd. Christopher Columbus, p. 380, New York: 1950.
8. Columbus, Ferdinand. The Life of Admiral Christopher Columbus, p. 232 Rutgers Uni. Press, 1959.
9. Obregon, Mauricio. The Columbus Papers, The Barcelona Letter of 1493.
10. The Landfall Controversy, and the Indian Guides, McMillan Co., New York: 1991.
11. Weiner, Dr. Leo. Africa and the Discovery of America, Vol.2 p. 365-366 Philadelphia: 1920.
12. Obregon, 1493.
13. Trento, 1978, p. 23.
14. ibid. p. 29.
15. ibid. p. 65.
16. Fell, 1980. 250-252.
17. Trento, 1978, p. 15.
18. Fell, 1980. p. 400-403.

http://www.fountainmagazine.com/articles.php?SIN=8923baf5b1&k=823&266534073&show=part1

wa salam
 

jakir-bd

New Member
Interesting.. actually Chinese have also been to America via the Pacific long before Columbus. Columbus was the first European to reach that land.
 

Irvan

New Member
:salam2:

This is huge...

Has it got to do with Admiral Zheng He (Chinese muslim from Hui clan) visit to America in 1422 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He)?

Well, if that so, when exactly the story went off its original course, thus we've been convinced that Columbus had "discovered" (yeah like it has been lost somewhere) by mistake in 1492, en route to India?

Has somebody been covering up the story all this time? or somebody made up foul story or many stories to cover up the true story?

Ah, it reminds me that long-long time ago, good people from western part of this earth came to Indonesia and went back to their leader, reporting that there were people living in the region who wear sarong, not pants, who eat with their bare hands, not fork and knive, and who speak funny language, far and foremost they are not wearing cross and pray 5 times a day. "Let's call them barbarians and oppress them for at least 3.5 centuries perhaps?" said the leader, and that was what precisely happened...

Perhaps, just perhaps similar situation happened in America soon after Columbus came...

(Zheng He with his Imperial China Fleet came to South East Asia region 100 years before the portuguese, the spanish and the netherlands but history never heard such story; Imperial China occupied S.E Asia, looks like greedines is not for everybody)

You just can not look down on other people and call them barbarians just because they are different from you...

Terribly sorry for the sarcasm

Allah knows best...
 

Mrmuslim

Smile you are @ TTI
Staff member
salaam alikom

Jazaaki Allah Khyran sister,

these kind of research should me in News Papers....
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:I just read this thread again interesting really.I ve seen a documentary yesterday about reservations may Allah swt help them and guide them.I love these people.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

The Native Americans are wonderful people. My sons are descendents of a tribal nation. Muslims made peace with them.
We are reminded in the Quran of all that we do not know. And the older I get the less I know..and the more I am humbled.
Jazaak for brining this again.
 

abdul-aziz

Junior Member
:salam2:

jazakum Allahu khairan, very interesting. I don't see too many people up to date with history findings that are muslim.

Muslim are coached to be a doctor, then if they fail the mcat, well be an engineer. These are the 2 choices.

:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

It is considered a great honor to be a doctor. Engineers make the world run.
We need to open ourselves to other professions. And we need historians to write a correct picture of what really happened.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:It is sad that challenging academic findings like this one are ignored bye the mainstream medias.I heard that the guy who made Meccacola (haha)named it after a tribal native community.This brother is really smart and well versed . I find it to be a wonderful idea.When we know that the elitists and big corporations make their money either by killing or stealing people.It is quite a change when somebody like this makes his cache behind a righteous cause , prospers and expands so that he might help more , there is nothing wrong with his concept.
Here is the interview:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xalzl1_interview-why-mecca-cola_news

Treat the earth well.
It was not given to you by your parents,
it was loaned to you by your children.
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
we borrow it from our Children.

Ancient Native Proverb

Humankind has not woven the web of life.
We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
All things are bound together.
All things connect.

Chief Seattle, 1854

I hate it when they call them Indians just because that fool of Colombus"discovered"them as they say while he tought he was going to India!In fact they found him lost and they discovered him.Yes,History can have racist traits as well you see!I de recommend some lectures of sheikh abdullah hakim Quick which is part a Native American he spins history back to it s feet!
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2:It is sad that challenging academic findings like this one are ignored bye the mainstream medias.I heard that the guy who made Meccacola (haha)named it after a tribal native community.This brother is really smart and well versed . I find it to be a wonderful idea.When we know that the elitists and big corporations make their money either by killing or stealing people.It is quite a change when somebody like this makes his cache behind a righteous cause , prospers and expands so that he might help more , there is nothing wrong with his concept.
Here is the interview:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xalzl1_interview-why-mecca-cola_news

Treat the earth well.
It was not given to you by your parents,
it was loaned to you by your children.
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
we borrow it from our Children.

Ancient Native Proverb

Humankind has not woven the web of life.
We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
All things are bound together.
All things connect.

Chief Seattle, 1854

I hate it when they call them Indians just because that fool of Colombus"discovered"them as they say while he tought he was going to India!In fact they found him lost and they discovered him.Yes,History can have racist traits as well you see!

:salam2: Brothers and Sisters,

I mean you all peace, longevity, and strong faith. I have not commented on this thread till now since I have yet a chance to research the material on my own but THIS link forced me to comment.

Sister Aapa, this post does NOT apply to you so please ignore it.

I have heard many times how infuriated Muslims are at how man has distorted the truth about their history, culture and teachings. I am outraged that this businessman would dare say that he named a soda after one of my "brother and sister" nations. To know knowledge, the tribal name is pronounced "mu-kaw" and not "mek-KAH" and they do not live in Washington DC but Washington STATE....that's a distance of nearly 3,000 miles!!

We call ourselves "Kwih-dich-chuh-ahtx" or "people who live by the rocks and seagulls". The name "Makah", which was given to us by our neighboring tribes, means "Generous with food".......

In 1970 tidal erosion uncovered an ancient whaling village at Ozette, parts of which had been covered by a mud slide hundreds of years ago. The subsequent artifacts which were found have now classified Ozette as one the most significant archaeological discoveries ever made in North America! In 1979 the Makah Cultural and Research Center opened to the public in order to share this great find. This nationally recognized museum features full scale replicas of cedar long houses as well as whaling, sealing and fishing canoes. On display are about one percent of the 55,000 artifacts recovered from Ozette.

These artifacts are between 300-500 years old. With the discovery at Ozette came "affirmation" of our heritage, in the tradition of our ancestors we are teaching the Makah language as well as learning to write it. We have many crafts people and artisans who make long houses, canoes, totems, masks, basketry, clothing and jewelry. Many of our legends are preserved through oral tradition, in the songs we sing and in the dances we perform.

http://www.northolympic.com/makah/index.html
Do you really know what "totems and masks" are? They are very UN-Islamic. They are also VERY sacred to us!

Do you really think that a "brother who is really smart and well versed"? By stating that he named his ingestable product after a Native Tribe isn't doing us any honors! Its THEFT of our honor, our DIGNITY and our NAME!

If you want to know how long we've been around, check this link out...
http://www.archaeology.org/9701/etc/specialreport.html

An 8,400-year-old skeleton found in Washington State has become the subject of a legal battle between scientists, who want it studied, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which was planning to turn it over to five American Indian tribes, several of which want it reburied immediately. The skeleton is one of the oldest ever found in the New World, more than 90 percent of it has been recovered, and enough organic material remains to permit radiocarbon dating and DNA analysis.
A fragment of a projectile point was imbedded in the pelvis, which had healed over the wound. At that point, Chatters was quoted as saying in the New York Times, "I've got a white guy with a stone point in him.... That's pretty exciting. I thought we had a pioneer."......

Chatters showed some of the bones to physical anthropologist Catherine J. MacMillan, a professor emeritus at Central Washington University. Looking at the skull on July 30, MacMillan made many of the same observations as Chatters and concurred that the skeleton was Caucasian. CAT scans of the pelvis, however, indicated that the projectile point might be of the Cascade phase, usually dated between ca. 9000 and 4500 B.P. "I was stunned when I examined the pelvic bone and the projectile point associated with it," wrote MacMillan in an August 31 letter to the Benton County coroner, "so I decided to reexamine the skull. My opinion remained the same--Caucasian male."
...the Windust (11,000 – 7000 BC) and the Cascade (7000 – 4500 BC) phases of the Lower Snake River, and the Philippi phase (11,000 – 7000 BC) of the John Day Reservoir, and the Vantage phase (7000 – 4500 BC) of the Middle Columbia region (Galm et al. 1981)
http://www.nps.gov/archeology/kennewick/ames4.htm
In conclusion, I advise you to not hold as truth EVERYTHING that has the tag of association with Islam. The history, culture, land and artifacts of the Native American's has already been raped enough!....or do I need to remind you of Jerusalem?

I apologize for my fury and as I typed this, I was able to calm down somewhat, but it is a bit touchy for me.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
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"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allah is Swift in account."


:salam2:

He sure is swift......allow me to share with you what has just happened to me.

I rarely get time alone. I am the mother of a wonderful, but rambunctious 32 month old son. My husband works nights so that means he sleeps during the day and is gone at night. I am almost a single parent in that respect. So, when I can, I shower in the dark so I can shut out the world and be with my own thoughts and prayers without distraction. I also have ADD so placing myself into an almost sensory deprivation situation is soothing and relaxes me.

Today was no different. I shut the water off, open the curtain and SQUISH! OH NO! I had turned off the lights BEFORE checking to see if the shower curtain was IN the tub....I had to use all the towels that were in the bathroom in order to wipe up the INCH of water that was all over the floor.

As I stood on my "wet blankets", I realized that the whole time I was in my shower, I was thinking about this post and the aptitude I had used. I had not used that time to regain peace within myself but to continue fanning the heat of anger. I was wrong for doing that. I am sorry.

I took out my anger of cultural theft on the wrong people. I hurt innocent people. I was wrong. I never gave a chance for truth to be accepted. I pre-judged that it would not matter. That so long as the name "Muslim" was connected to something, that nothing and no one else could dissuade anyone here different.

For that, I am sorry.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:Hello jen, i stopped arguing with people on here i come very rarely to this site as i have less time now for foolish arguments and confrontation. But still love TTI i have many friends on here an i appreciate their input.

1.The original article was stating the fact that Muslims where there before Colombus!I don t think there is anything wrong with stating that.It is an academic study done by a non Muslim and has the merit of being objective and impartial.

2.
Do you really know what "totems and masks" are?UN-Islamic. They are also VERY sacred to us
.
This hasn t any connection or whatsoever with the context of this thread.And it doesn t change my appreciation of this spirited people.I see you admit to be on the defensive when it comes to this kind of subjects.Emotions are fine and natural as long as they prevent us from cutting the intellectual hand that should father them in consequence.Please do not reduce the fact that the guy gave a name makkah as a reference to the tribe.In that case Muslims should be as disgusted we do not wanna fall into that viscious circle of"My suffering is greater than yours"We should look at the intention beyond as well to balance our input if the intention is a good one we should encourage it as well.Error is human it should be always open to correction .Furthermore i myself think he meant to highlight a double connotation to promote the urgent need of a double critical discourse and action , challenge the current hypocritical hegemonic ideologies urging them to go beyond their symbols and shields(democracy,Human rights..etc), well their totems and their masks if you will,In brief to be consistent. That is all .We should not fall into the trap of essentializing and mystifying our own history. Muslims do that too,this makes people static and ensnared this is the way of the oppressors and not the ones of the freedom and truth fighters.What we should ask ourselves is how to make our history relevant and beneficial to our contemporary world in a dynamic and active manner this is the way we to get our honor ,dignity reconciliate with our memories for ourselves and loved ones.Otherwise it would just lead to reductionism in our reading ,contemplation and melancholy.It would make us poets but not necessarily critical readers of history ,doctor or mechanics.

Excuse if this might sound a little cynical but this gave you the opportunity to teach us about your history our history as human beings if you allow. (by yelling at me at the same time:)) .I wouldn t have known about the existence of such a tribe and am sure a lot of us wouldn t have either without this man s interview. I wouldn t have known about it in more depth as well without having had the chance to unintentionally provoke your engaged reaction and be aware of the ignorance of my own ignorance I admit. the This is the white spot in our "big" dark frame i guess.A reason to move forth hand in hand and accompany one Another towards the one.The lesson to be learned is that once again the casualty of our discussion is automatically pointing towards our condemnation to live together , learn and interact with one another.Everything makes sense.

Did you know that 10 percent of this companies benefits go to Palestinian children , not in money form but in form of school bags,books, medicines ,pencils ,food ..etc and 10 other percent go to Muslim charities in Europe and around the world.If he wanted to use the name of my dead parents whom god knows i love as much as you love the history of your people for such a purpose i would n t mind at all!It would honor them more than my useless contemplation...Like Juliet would put it""What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet."

I by no means intended to neglect and reduce your sensitivity,your honor is my honor when i respect your memory am in fact just respecting our collective memory .
Please do teach us more,post once in a while about the subject and current
situation ,that would help to cure our ignorance and open another window as a source of information.

I wish this finds you motivated and in good spirit and health

Ps.Could you tell me something about The Osage tribe or site me a good source?i have always been fascinated by your people and because i am probably gonna be marrying a girl which is Half Osage half German Irish as well .She s the most Humble ,rare and beautiful thing i ve seen in this world and i don t wanna have her yelling at me.:redface:But my cultural background somehow imposed on me to be a little Macho and stubborn at times :SMILY346:can t help it:redface:

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Qur'an 49:13
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

Feed the hungry and visit a sick person, and free the captive, if he be unjustly confined. Assist any person oppressed, whether Muslim or non-Muslim.”
- Prophet Muhammad

Youth is like a stream, if it is not directed to its course it meanders and swallows its tail.- Jude Ezedike African proverb

"The more sand that has escaped from the hourglass of our lives the clearer we should see through it"
Jean Paul Sartre.

"The one-eyed person is a beauty in the country of the blind"Arabic proverb

Laws are spider webs through which the big flies pass and the little ones get caught. Honore de Balzac

“Man is fond of counting his troubles, but he does not count his joys. If he counted them up as he ought to, he would see that every lot has enough happiness provided for it.”Fedor Dostoyevski

"“It is not only what we do, but also what we do not do, for which we are accountable.” Moliere

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.Ancient chinese proverb

"God gives the nuts but he does not crack them"Kafka

"Let everyone sweep in front of his own door, and the whole world will be clean. "
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Asslaam walaikum,

Brother,

I knew it. I knew it. You are going to get married. I told you you would have a hundred little Muslims running around Europe. Save me a gigantic slice of cake.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
Asslaam walaikum,

Brother,

I knew it. I knew it. You are going to get married. I told you you would have a hundred little Muslims running around Europe. Save me a gigantic slice of cake.
:salam2:Inshallah soon Appa the world is big and fool of tentations and false promises you know,it is not easy to really find the one you de say worth for you to wanna spend your whole journey with.I believe it is never good to rush.Allah s mercy has it s ways of reaching his servants.I wish tough if everything works fine that she s gonna have the same fighting spirit and power that you have.May allah bless you.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum.

Son....she will have you to protect her... what more could a woman want than to have a Muslim husband!!!
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
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"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allah is Swift in account."


:salam2:

He sure is swift......allow me to share with you what has just happened to me.

I rarely get time alone. I am the mother of a wonderful, but rambunctious 32 month old son. My husband works nights so that means he sleeps during the day and is gone at night. I am almost a single parent in that respect. So, when I can, I shower in the dark so I can shut out the world and be with my own thoughts and prayers without distraction. I also have ADD so placing myself into an almost sensory deprivation situation is soothing and relaxes me.

Today was no different. I shut the water off, open the curtain and SQUISH! OH NO! I had turned off the lights BEFORE checking to see if the shower curtain was IN the tub....I had to use all the towels that were in the bathroom in order to wipe up the INCH of water that was all over the floor.

As I stood on my "wet blankets", I realized that the whole time I was in my shower, I was thinking about this post and the aptitude I had used. I had not used that time to regain peace within myself but to continue fanning the heat of anger. I was wrong for doing that. I am sorry.

I took out my anger of cultural theft on the wrong people. I hurt innocent people. I was wrong. I never gave a chance for truth to be accepted. I pre-judged that it would not matter. That so long as the name "Muslim" was connected to something, that nothing and no one else could dissuade anyone here different.

For that, I am sorry.
:salam2:OOps we were writing at the same time.I didn t see your second response.I love you sister we all love you for the sake of Allah swt sister.Be strong and hang in there. you are not alone.
 
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