Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary! W

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by sandra canada, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. sandra canada
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    sandra canada Laa ilaha illa Allah

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    Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary!Was he too a pedophile?[​IMG]

    What about Mary, Jesus' Mother peace be upon both of them? How old was she when she got pregnant?
    Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus. Mary had already been "BETROTHED" to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. therefore Mary was younger than 11-14 years of age when she was "BETHROED" to Joseph. We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the "Holy Ghost" of the Bible, that "Impregnated" Mary as a "Rapist" or "Adulterer".

    "....it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age...." (Source) [2]

    Also, this paragraph was sent to me by brother Mike, who embraced Islam recently; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."

    According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.

    So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of "child molesting", since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl's vagina? Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah's Message to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians). In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet's (peace be upon him) marriage.



    Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary! Was he too a pedophile?


    From http://dan1988.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-did-prophet-muhammed-marry-aisha.html:

    Hypocrisy of Jews & Christians


    It is quite hypocritical of Jews and Christian to criticize the marriage of Aisha. Talmud (Jewish scripture) says:

    "Marrying off one's daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible, even to one's Slave. (From the Talmud, Pesachim 113a)"

    As we discussed, in biblical times adulthood could refer to the age of Puberty or even younger age.

    Regarding the Marriage of Mary to Joseph, Catholic Encyclopaedia ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), says:


    "When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother"). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place."


    Note: That article on Catholic Encyclopaedia obtains its information from early

    Christian writing including apocryphal writings.
    The Catholic Encyclopaedia goes on to conclude "...retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God." If Christians do not find any difficulty in accepting "Mother of God" (according to Catholic Encyclopaedia), who was 12-14, marrying a 90 year old man then why do they raise objection towards the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the Prophet?



    - What about the Bible's Prophets' marriages?

    When we read the Bible, we learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases. Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament:

    In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

    In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

    In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

    In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

    And knowing that the Bible's Old Testament allowed before for men to have sex with girls who were at the age of 3, then it wouldn't surprise me that those Prophets who had 700 wives for instance, had many very young "teenage" girls before as their wives.

    It wouldn't surprise me if they too had wives that were younger than Mary when she got pregnant, and younger than Aisha when she got married.

    Since there are so many wives that those Prophets married (hundreds of wives), then how would anyone know that they didn't marry young women as our beloved Prophet peace be upon him did with his marriage to Aisha peace be upon her?





    What about the X-Rated P O R N ography in the Bible?

    When we read the Bible, we learn about some weird *!*!*!*!ographic teachings that are certainly not appropriate for anyone with morals to read. Please visit X-Rated *!*!*!*!ography in the Bible to see the many *!*!*!*!ographic verses in the Bible. You will read for instance, about Solomon's wife's vagina tastes like wine for him!

    You will also see examples of Prophets sleeping with their neighbor's wives, such as the following:

    David watches a women bathe, likes what he sees, and "goes in unto her." Let us look at 2 Samuel 11:2-4 "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home." This Holy Figure in the Bible is a pervert!.

    So what happened to "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (From the NIV Bible, Leviticus 20:10)"????

    How come Leviticus 20:10 was compromised in the Bible and was never applied to King David?! Didn't King David know about this law? Yet, the Jews use his star as their holy symbol; the David Star, and the Christians call Jesus his son; "Son of David".

    It seems to me quite clearly that the Bible is nothing but a compromised corrupted Book as Jeremiah 8:8, 2 Samuel 11:2-4 and Leviticus 20:10 suggest.

    If the strong eats the weak in the Bible, then what moral and wisdom are we to learn from this book?
  2. palestine
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    palestine Servant of Allah

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    ok. i understand this is a thread to proof that probably muhammad wasn't a pedophile and he was not. and it's true what kind of book is this when it tells the strong you can eat the weak. seriously. and worst of that is they insult our beloved prophet Jesus ('isa). salam and thanks for the thread really informative.
  3. sandra canada
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    sandra canada Laa ilaha illa Allah

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    :hijabi: Jazak Allah khayran brother :SMILY259::SMILY206:

    May Allah Enter You FarDooS HEAVEN Ameen
  4. Zaynab123
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    Zaynab123 Subhana Allah!

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    jazak Allahu khayra

    :ma: jazak Allahu khayra for sharing, besides daivid is prophet dawud alayhi salam. he would never do such thing like that. they are true hypocrites, they were also againts every prophet Allah has sent.
    may Allah increase ur knowledge and protecet u ameen:tti_sister:
    palestine is a sister
  5. sandra canada
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    sandra canada Laa ilaha illa Allah

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    JAZAKI ALLAH FARRDOS SISTER ZAYNAB I REALLY LOVE YOU IN ALLAH
    THANKS FOR UR DELICATE COMMENT:hearts::shymuslima1:
  6. David Gould
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    There is always a problem when we try to apply present day morality to other cultures of a different age. At the time of the events you describe life expectancy for women was normally very short...many sadly dying in childbirth or due to complications shortly thereafter. The age of puberty for women is normally earlier that that of men and has changed throughout history depending upon a number of factors including diet, genes and so forth. There are cultures where girls are still married at early ages even today...but again we must also not read stuff that is not there in the record. The bible makes clear Matthew 1:24-25 that Joseph "knew her not till she had brought forth her a son." In other words there was no consumation of the marriage until she had had her baby. Some parts of the Christian community hold that even after that there was no consumation as Mary was an "ever virgin". From a purely medical standpoint if Joseph was as old as you say (90 was it?) he was possibly rather old for such behaviour to be possible...impotance being quite common in the elderly. As to whether he was a pedophile...well he was apparently commanded by an angel (Gabriel probably) to marry her...what was he to do but to obey.
  7. Proud_2b_Muslim
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    Proud_2b_Muslim Ahmad M. Al-Marshoud

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    :salam2:
    thanks for sharing , jazak Allah khayran
  8. __Enslaved___
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    Selaam sister

    As you just pointed out there is a lot of a hypocrysy that goes with Jews and Chrsitians. They make alot of attacks against our prophet Muhammed (by whom be peace) when they forget to check between the pages of their own book.
    However even due to all this hypocrisy it does not give a muslim the right to bash the prophets they hold holy just as Muslims hold Holy as well.
    Muslims revere King David as a Holy prophet , Dignified and with respect. Muslims revere Solomon holy as well. This does not give one the right to call them perverts.
    The issue with David(by whom be peace) commiting adultery with bathsheba
    is a controversial issue with not a word about it mentioned in The Holy Qur'an.
    You must understand though that just like us the prophets (by whom be peace) are Human ,make mistakes, and fall into error...just like us. There is even story in the Holy Qur'an about Moses(by whom be peace) killing a man.
    But as we can all see, The prophets Moses, David , and Solomon. (by whom be peace) are spoken in The Holy Qur'an with great honour and with Profound dignity. Therefore, this goes to show that Allaah(subhaahahu wa ta'ala) is truly, and inded trully trully Er-Rahman, Er-Rahiim(the Most Merciful, The Entirely Merciful). Trully Allaah(subhaanahu wa TA'ala) is The One who shows mercy best. Therefore maybe this goes to hope that Allaah(subhaanahu wa ta'ala) will forgive us our sins and admit us into gardens. That would be nice... eh?
  9. __Enslaved___
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    __Enslaved___ Junior Member

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    How do you know????????
    They could be lying .....or they could be not.
    You don't know. I don't know. None of us know.
    We know that they lied about Jesus(by whom be peace) .But yet only We know this because there came clear and purified evidence against their claims in the Holy Qur'an
    But the issue of David (by whom be peace) We do not know. There is nothing in the Holy Qur'an clearing this up.
    Therefore it gives not one the right to say when we didn't live thousands of years ago nor is there mention in the Final Scripture(the qur'an).

    selaam
  10. Offspring
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    Offspring New Member

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    But you all are forgetting one thing, it is "good" that binds us human race and "evil" that tears us apart. Religion is a direction to follow and learn the power of these strong words. No matter what your belief, race, etc. we all are capable to understand what right and wrong are and it is our duty to perform what is right in our actions. Through actions of "good" is the only way to the promise land. Chase good...
  11. a_stranger
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    Assalamu alaikim wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatu , what is really astonishing these days is that the media is motivating all kind of lusts and is calling for all kinds of dirty sins for young people and elder ones , but they are against marriage at a young age . Is it Ok for a young girl to get pregnant outside marriage while it is forbbiden for her to have a secure family ??? I am not saying that a girl should marry at a young age but in case she is going to have relation with a male ......this should be within legal marriage only . This tendency for the opposit sex is planned for a purpose to make stable family raise children make a good society ...and when the purpose is lost life will be dirty and meaningless.
  12. Um Ibrahim
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    Um Ibrahim Alhamdulilah :)

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    MashaaAllah, this thread is really old...besides that, I'm surprised that there was no correction here about Maryam being married??? She was never married when she had Prophet Issa, well according to our Quran. I don't know what's in the bible but we know she was not married thus her becoming pregnant was a miracle.
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  13. kaother
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    Salaam.

    I came across this, and especially on the last bible quote (2 Samuel 11:2-4) I was quite shocked at what I read. And so I took it upon myself to do some small research (5 minute search on jw.org) and found that although this is in the bible, if you finish reading the passage, on the last verse it says that this displeased Jehovah (Allah) greatly. Yes, the way some Christians bash Islam isn't nice, however we shouldn't lower ourselves to them. The way you put the 'p,o,r,n,o,g,r,a,p,h,i,c' verses made it seem that you were trying to say that the bible and Christians agree with this kind of behaviour, whereas there are many verses in the bible which talk about this matter and how much it displeases Allah.

    When looking at bible translations I'd recommend the New World Translation as it is the clearest, the most accurate and from the website/app you can compare their verses with other bible translations and there is also commentary. Jehovah's witnesses are the only true Christians out there. They do not see Jesus as a God or son or God and they hold many if not all of the morals that we Muslims hold, such as no drinking, smoking, modest dress, etc. And so when The Qur'an and Sunnah talk about people of the book (Muslims, Jews, Christians) and marrying them or having different relations with them etc, other Christians are not included as they worship Jesus, they are Kuffar. Only Jehovah's Witnesses are included.
  14. Abu Juwairiya
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    Jazakallah Khayrun for your reply and concern. Its true there are no passages in the Qur'an or in Ahadith that explicitly speak about Prophet Dawud (AS) as not being an adulterer. At the same time there are no passages in the Qur'an that mention the following things about Prophets which are mentioned in the Bible-

    Lut (AS) committing incest with his daughters

    Nuh (AS) becoming hopelessly drunk

    Sulayman (AS) becoming a Mushrik and worshipping the gods of his various kafir wives

    Ayyub (AS) saying to Allah he wished he had never been born

    Musa (AS) saying to Allah he wished he had never been given Messengership to the Jews

    Harun (AS) participating in the making and worshipping of the golden calf along with the Jews during the absence of Musa (AS)

    Yahya (AS) calling the Jews 'You offspring of vipers'.

    Just because an action that is quite disgusting is not there in the Qur'an, it does not mean we have to accept that there is a good possibility a Prophet may be guilty of it.

    If a Prophet deliberately acts and behaves in a manner that is outside of acceptable Islamic etiquette and conduct with regularity, what is our perception of him overall. Its likely to be highly negative and to the point of extreme repugnance, strict condemnation and hatred.

    Some of us may even state he could not be a Prophet with such a character. At best we have an expectation of what constitutes a person who would be selected, appointed and delegated responsibility as a 'Prophet' and 'Messenger of Allah'. After all, who is the Prophet a representative of; Allah Himself.

    What type of person would Allah send as His Representatives; after all no one is free of judgement except Allah Himself. As human beings who have free will, we will and do judge and that includes Prophets and thousands of years before the creation of Adam (AS), Allah knew this and selected a sample of us to speak on His behalf with His Message, His Constitution, His Moral and Spiritual Code and as leaders over us.

    In such a context, what type of person would Allah appoint with the above mission. As Allah is Perfect, it entails the representatives must also be perfect (in a human and not divine sense). This must be true as Allah would only send the best and greatest men of all time to convey and implement the best and greatest message and be the exemplary models of perfection, so that we can follow in their footsteps and use them as our examples.

    This then leads to the question, 'Could a Prophet deliberately commit one, a few or occasional major sins and remain a Prophet'. I will leave the answer for you all to discuss and think over.
  15. Abu Juwairiya
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    I would also add the question, 'where do you draw the line?' in what you are prepared to accept and what you choose to reject from stories outside the Qur'an and Ahadith and what are your methods of doing so in determining and assessing the truth of an assertion against a Prophet/ Messenger of Allah.

    In the same way, similar rules and evaluations can be held to be potentially true about non human beings; namely the Angels and since the Bible is one such source of what may have happened in earlier centuries, then what can be said of the following instances outlined and spoken in detail there but not in the Qur'an and Ahadith.

    1. Some Angels looked down on the Planet earth and saw how beautiful human women were. An unknown number of Angels then decided to make their way to earth and once there, the Angels had sexual relations with them. At some point later Allah decided to punish the Angels and they were removed from both the earth and their human women.

    2. The human women who had fallen in love with the Angels later became pregnant and gave birth to a strange race of human giants.

    The above stories are not mentioned in the Qur'an, can you accept them since very little is mentioned about the individual abilities and character of Angels. Remember these are about 'some Angels', not the entire creation and a group amongst the earliest generations. Could it be possible that just because we have a different perception of what constitutes Angelic conduct that some of them may actually be sinners and guilty of sin just like us.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
  16. chalky
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    Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary!Was he too a pedophile?

    I wonder are you actually reading the sources you quote or just cutting out the bits that suit your argument. I cite the fist paragraph from which you quote.
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm

    Sources
    The chief sources of information on the life of St. Joseph are the first chapters of our first and third Gospels; they are practically also the only reliable sources, for, whilst, on the holy patriarch's life, as on many other points connected with the Saviour's history which are left untouched by the canonical writings, the apocryphal literature is full of details, the non-admittance of these works into the Canon of the Sacred Books casts a strong suspicion upon their contents; and, even granted that some of the facts recorded by them may be founded on trustworthy traditions, it is in most instances next to impossible to discern and sift these particles of truehistory from the fancies with which they are associated. Among these apocryphal productions dealing more or less extensively with some episodes of St. Joseph's life may be noted the so-called "Gospel of James", the "Pseudo-Matthew", the "Gospel of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary", the "Story of Joseph the Carpenter", and the "Life of the Virgin and Death of Joseph".

    and secondly.

    It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage contained in the apocryphal writings.

    In simple terms you argument is based on writing universally regarded as unreliable so it is no argument all/
  17. Abu Juwairiya
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    Chalky, can you tell us a little about Joseph and his marriage, the social and religious conditions of the time in terms of marital unions like this. By this I mean both from Christian interpretation of the Bible and from outside it by Christian scholars. Can you also let us know if Joseph had been married before, married afterwards and what happened to him once Jesus grows up.

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