Lunar Calendar

[cyrusarif]

Salamun Alaikum
Can anybody tell me which Ayat of Holy Quraan leads towards sighting of moon for the purpose of starting the month and calculation of calendar?

Regards
Cyrus

 

[ahmadyaacob]

Lunar year

:salam2:

I wish to refer to surah al-Kahfi (18) verse 25, which reads: "So they stayed in their cave three hundred year and (some) add nine (more)".

The verse is technical and mathematical. At first when reading the verse I did not understand why it is mentioned 300 years and 300 + 9, which is 309 years. But when I did some research and make reference to the tafsir and book of the scholars, I have found a MIRACLE of al-Quran.

Actually, Allah has mentioned here is that, the Ashabul Kahfi (people of cave) have slept for 300 years (in solar year) and 309 years (in lunar year).

It goes like this:

300 years (solar) 309 years (lunar)
365 days = 1 year 354 days = 1 year
1 solar year (equals to) 1.03 lunar year (that is 365 / 354 = 1.03)
10 solar year = 10.3 lunar year
100 solar year = 103 lunar year
200 solar year = 206 lunar year
300 solar year = 309 lunar year

It is very technical and when I ask my student to do the calculation, they were amazed by miracle of al-Quran.

I am sorry that I cannot provide the definite answer to your question, but the verse does indirectly deal with the calculation of solar and lunar year.

Thank you Allah knows best.

 

[Abu.Amirah]

"The month of Ramadân in which was revealed the Qur'ân, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadân i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Saum (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Saum (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allâh intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allâh [i.e. to say Takbîr (Allâhu-Akbar; Allâh is the Most Great) on seeing the crescent of the months of Ramadân and Shawwâl] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him."
Surah al-Baqqara (The cow) N°2 verse n°185

"He is the One who gave the sun its brightness and the moon its light,established her phases that you may learn to compute the years and other such counts(days,weeks,months).Allah created them only to manifest the truth.He has spelled out His revelations for people who want to understand. Surah Yunus 10:5


Out of this second Aya we learn the miracle of the Quran.
In those times of the Prophet (s.a.w) there were no scientist and no one knew that the moon was taking its light from the sun but this is what Allah(s.w) told us before even scientist discovered about it.

Jazakallahu kheir!

 

[ahmadyaacob]

bismillah: :salam2:

I wish to refer to surah al-Kahfi (18) verse 25, which reads: "So they stayed in their cave three hundred year and (some) add nine (more)".

The verse is technical and mathematical. At first when reading the verse I did not understand why it is mentioned 300 years and 300 + 9, which is 309 years. But when I did some research and make reference to the tafsir and book of the scholars, I have found a MIRACLE of al-Quran.

Actually, Allah has mentioned here is that, the Ashabul Kahfi (people of cave) have slept for 300 years (in solar year) and 309 years (in lunar year).

It goes like this:

300 years (solar) 309 years (lunar)
365 days = 1 year 354 days = 1 year
1 solar year (equals to) 1.03 lunar year (that is 365 / 354 = 1.03)
10 solar year = 10.3 lunar year
100 solar year = 103 lunar year
200 solar year = 206 lunar year
300 solar year = 309 lunar year

It is very technical and when I ask my student to do the calculation, they were amazed by the miracle of al-Quran.

I am sorry that I cannot provide the definite answer to your question, but the verse does indirectly deal with the calculation of solar and lunar year.

Thank you Allah knows best.

 

[zarah]

Assalamu Alaikum




:salam2:


:ma: :ma: :ma: :ma:

I didn`t know that!

for sharing.:bananabb2in: :bananabb2in:

 

[cyrusarif]

Salamun Alaikum,
Dear Brother The verse you have quoted is quite irrelevent as neither any rule has been defined therein for calculations of count of years nor there is anyindication leads to sightning of moon for any purpose. It is just your hypothecation as Allah means this and that.

 

[cyrusarif]

"The month of Ramadân in which was revealed the Qur'ân, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadân i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Saum (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Saum (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allâh intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allâh [i.e. to say Takbîr (Allâhu-Akbar; Allâh is the Most Great) on seeing the crescent of the months of Ramadân and Shawwâl] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him."
Surah al-Baqqara (The cow) N°2 verse n°185

"He is the One who gave the sun its brightness and the moon its light,established her phases that you may learn to compute the years and other such counts(days,weeks,months).Allah created them only to manifest the truth.He has spelled out His revelations for people who want to understand. Surah Yunus 10:5


Out of this second Aya we learn the miracle of the Quran.
In those times of the Prophet (s.a.w) there were no scientist and no one knew that the moon was taking its light from the sun but this is what Allah(s.w) told us before even scientist discovered about it.

Jazakallahu kheir!

Dear Brother Salamun Alaikum
I would request you to reconsider your reply. The First reference you have given has no reference leading to sigtning of moon as the ayat and its translation in the words of Yousuf Ali is as under:
شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ فَمَن شَهِدَ مِنكُمُ الشَّهْرَ فَلْيَصُمْهُ وَمَن كَانَ مَرِيضًا أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّةٌ مِّنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ يُرِيدُ اللّهُ بِكُمُ الْيُسْرَ وَلاَ يُرِيدُ بِكُمُ الْعُسْرَ وَلِتُكْمِلُواْ الْعِدَّةَ وَلِتُكَبِّرُواْ اللّهَ عَلَى مَا هَدَاكُمْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
"[Yusufali 2:185] Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful." and it is more realistic (if not the exact) translation.
Secondly you have refered the ayat of Sura Younus which says as per Yousuf Ali as "10:5] It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand." Can you just tell me how can your determine the No of years and count of time leaving apart the Sun?
And in the same contaxt I refer you Ayat No.12 of Sura Al-Asraa~ Which says "We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail." In this ayat Allah has used the words 'Lail' and 'Nahar' instead of Qamar and Shams. and you can easily understand that it is the only "Sun" which causes the transitional phenomina of day and night, Moon has nothing to do in changing day into night and vice versa. Therefore, it is obvious that Moon has nothing to do with calender system.

Itemase Dua

 

[Abu.Amirah]

"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.

Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moonsighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days. In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:



Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)

Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:



We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)

In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasising their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moonsighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.

This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.

Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.

The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.

The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.

In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moonsighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.

May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir

 

[cyrusarif]

"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.

Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moonsighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days. In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:



Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)

Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:



We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)

In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasising their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moonsighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.

This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.

Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.

The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.

The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.

In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moonsighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.

May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir

Salamun Alaikum

I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also heve read a lot of other narrations in this regards that heve beet attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable.

Further I would like to ask you mention a reason for which we need for having a calendar system and the capability of the system we are following to meet that requirement. What I understand is that there are three basic requirements a calendar system should and must provide. We should be able: 1. To maintain and compile our history chronologically. 2. To observer the sanctity of the days of remembrance, and 3. To schedule our future programs and events. The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.

 

[cyrusarif]

"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.

Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moonsighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days. In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:



Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)

Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:



We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)

In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasising their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moonsighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.

This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.

Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.

The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.

The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.

In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moonsighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.

May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir

Further, I know that the meaning of Shahid in arabic is ‘to witness’. And here faman shahida is attributed towards the month of Ramazan not the moon. How can it be referred to the sighting of moon. It basically means that when you are in the month of Ramazan and you are not ill or not in journey, you have to fast.

 

[Mabsoot]

Salamun Alaikum

I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also heve read a lot of other narrations in this regards that heve beet attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable. .

Wa alaykum Salam, brother, not everything is mentioned in the Quran, and hence the Hadith are what we rely on as both an explanation of the Quran and also for further guidance.

The validity of hadith is for the Hadith Scholars to make verdict on, not for us. If a hadith is sound, it is obligatory to follow it. So, its not up for debate.. There should be no doubt in the words of the Prophet Muhammad . The way hadith are transmitted is a scientific and precise method, walhamdulilah.

What Abu Amirah said in his post is correct, alhamdulilah. That the sighting of the moon is what should be relied on, not some calculations.

The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.

The Lunar calendar doesnt make people confused. If something makes someone confused it is because they have little understanding over it.

Nor is there any doubt over the dates.

Someone might be confused with how to operate a computer or navigate a website.

All the Islamic books use lunar calendar and it is still used today in many Islamic countries such as in Saudi Arabia, and there is no problem using it alongside the other calendars.

The Christian calendar existed at the time of the Sahaabah, but they did not use it, rather they ignored it and used the Hijri calendar.

Allah chose the Lunar based Hijri Calendar for us. Its part of Islam, we are pleased with that for Allah knows better than us and any other human. Our knowledge isnt comparable, so we leave it at that.

Its important we stick to the explanation of the verses from Islamic Scholars and not try to explain verses using our limited knowledge on the subject..

My advice is to ask a scholar, inshaAllah for further direction.

Wasalam.

Friday, 11, August, 2006 (17, Rajab, 1427)

 

[cyrusarif]

Wa alaykum Salam, brother, not everything is mentioned in the Quran, and hence the Hadith are what we rely on as both an explanation of the Quran and also for further guidance.

The validity of hadith is for the Hadith Scholars to make verdict on, not for us. If a hadith is sound, it is obligatory to follow it. So, its not up for debate.. There should be no doubt in the words of the Prophet Muhammad . The way hadith are transmitted is a scientific and precise method, walhamdulilah.

What Abu Amirah said in his post is correct, alhamdulilah. That the sighting of the moon is what should be relied on, not some calculations.



The Lunar calendar doesnt make people confused. If something makes someone confused it is because they have little understanding over it.

Nor is there any doubt over the dates.

Someone might be confused with how to operate a computer or navigate a website.

All the Islamic books use lunar calendar and it is still used today in many Islamic countries such as in Saudi Arabia, and there is no problem using it alongside the other calendars.

The Christian calendar existed at the time of the Sahaabah, but they did not use it, rather they ignored it and used the Hijri calendar.

Allah chose the Lunar based Hijri Calendar for us. Its part of Islam, we are pleased with that for Allah knows better than us and any other human. Our knowledge isnt comparable, so we leave it at that.

Its important we stick to the explanation of the verses from Islamic Scholars and not try to explain verses using our limited knowledge on the subject..

My advice is to ask a scholar, inshaAllah for further direction.

Wasalam.

Friday, 11, August, 2006 (17, Rajab, 1427)

Dear Mabsoot, Salamun Alaikum.
I bag to differ from your point of view. As you yourself mentioned that before Hijrat Arabs were following in your words ‘Christian calendar’ which is based on solar system. The change of calendar system is a foremost & significant event and it would not be happened overnight. A lot of homework including training of the users of the system involves in it. Extensive efforts are needed to communicate the principals and delicacies to make people understand the system and its minuteness. I am surprised that I couldn't find any detail regarding this important segment of history in the history of Islam, and such a change should be expressly mentioned in Holy Quran. On the other hand we find numerous verses which clearly indicate that Almighty Allah has ordered us to follow the solar system. For instance Ref: Soora Toba, Ayat " إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ فَلاَ تَظْلِمُواْ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَقَاتِلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَآفَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَآفَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ {36}
" translation of which says [9:36] “The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him from the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight (ever lasting) usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.”
The above Ayat indicates that whatever system Allah S.W.T. has ordered us to follow is the same which is started since the day of creation of Heavens & Earth. And He further confirm it that it is the ever lasting law to follow.

Similarly, Ayat No.12 of Sura Al-Asraa~ Which says "We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail."
So in the presence of these verses in Holy Quran, how can we say that Allah has ordered us to follow the lunar system without any specific reference.

May Allah S.W.T. guide us toward the right path. Ameen.

 

[Abu.Amirah]

A/A,

I understand your point but Allah (s.w) Made both the sun and the moon so that it can help us in our daily lives.We use the sun to calculate the time for prayers and we use the moon to calculate the date for every month.

In surat yasin 36:39 "As for the moon, We have design phases for it till it again becomes like an old dry palm branch. (MALIK)

This shows that Allah (s.w) made it easy for us to determine the accuracy of calculating the date by just watching the moon phase.How is it possible for us to know which date it is today by watching the sun?
When its full moon we already know that today its 13th in that month and till on 15th then the phase change again.

So Quran cannot just be understood without the sunnah. Allah says "WAAKIMU SWALAT" so is there any aya in the Quran which shows us how to pray? But our Prophet sunnah supported this and then we came to understand how to pray.So brother the hadith of the Rasool which are sahih clearly says about how to start and calculate the dates and if you dont agree on them :astag: then its better you ask the scholars.

Jazakallahu kheir

 

[cyrusarif]

A/A,

I understand your point but Allah (s.w) Made both the sun and the moon so that it can help us in our daily lives.We use the sun to calculate the time for prayers and we use the moon to calculate the date for every month.

In surat yasin 36:39 "As for the moon, We have design phases for it till it again becomes like an old dry palm branch. (MALIK)

This shows that Allah (s.w) made it easy for us to determine the accuracy of calculating the date by just watching the moon phase.How is it possible for us to know which date it is today by watching the sun?
When its full moon we already know that today its 13th in that month and till on 15th then the phase change again.

So Quran cannot just be understood without the sunnah. Allah says "WAAKIMU SWALAT" so is there any aya in the Quran which shows us how to pray? But our Prophet sunnah supported this and then we came to understand how to pray.So brother the hadith of the Rasool which are sahih clearly says about how to start and calculate the dates and if you dont agree on them :astag: then its better you ask the scholars.

Jazakallahu kheir

Salamun Alaikum;
I fear that you still didn’t understand my point of view. I simply asked one question that which Ayat of Holly Quran leads to sighting of moon for calculation of month & year? When Allah s.w.t. expressly indicated in Sora Tawba referred above that the calendar system is like this and this and it is an ever-lasting law (Zalika Deenil Qayyem), then how one can say that Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. has introduced an entirely different system. Can you give any example where Rasoolallah has differed from Quraanic verses?
Further, the Ayat your referred from Sura Yasin although has no relevance with the subject matter even then you may note that Allah s.w.t has referred the position of crescent which occurs just before dawn on 27 or 28th instead of referring crescent which happens at sunset on 1st of our adopted month eliminating any doubt in this regard.

Iltemase Dua

 

[Karima]

Asalamualikum,

When all of you are finished explaining this, can someone summarize the results of this interesting discussion? (in a shorter version?)

It has been interesting to read, and now I am completely lost....

Kindness is my intent and also knowledge I seek....

Sallam,
Kristina

 

[cyrusarif]

Salamun Alaikum,
Sister this discussion is in its initial stages and it is too early to summarize the same. I advise you to print each message in sequence and read them again and again. It is a very painfull truth that We, the muslims, have changed a lot of original Islam. and what remains today is not the true Islam.
Regards, Cyrus

 

[cyrusarif]

I Invite people to participate in the discussion as to reach its logical conclussion. As a lead, I would like to mention here that we the muslims, irrespective of our caste and creed have mistakenly adopted the lunar system instead of the natural calendar system i.e. Solar System, which has without any doubt an authorotative supermacy not only upon the earth but whole the universe.

 

[Mrmuslim]

I Invite people to participate in the discussion as to reach its logical conclussion. As a lead, I would like to mention here that we the muslims, irrespective of our caste and creed have mistakenly adopted the lunar system instead of the natural calendar system i.e. Solar System, which has without any doubt an authorotative supermacy not only upon the earth but whole the universe.

salaam Alikom

So are you trying to say that what the prophet peace be upon him did was wrong by selecting the lunar system and arabic clander?
or that the prophet peace be up on him was wrong when he said

صوموا لرؤيته وأفطروا لرؤيته​

(Start fasting with wtiness of moon and end your fast (celebrate Eid) with witnessing the moon)

Only Lunar clander gose by moon sighting...so the Hadith should be enough answer ..

to clearfy more you answered your Question by your self ....
Soora Toba, Ayat "
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ {36}
" “Lo! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth.” (Surah 9 Verse 36) "

Then the Verses continue of them four are sacred:

The Scared 4 month are only in arabic lunar clander (Muharram,Rajab, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah ) Not in the solar clander ....they were known to Arabs

..so inshallah hopfully this answer your question.

Another reasong for using the lunar system
The Islamic calendar being lunar instead of solar has great significance concerning the month of Ramadan. If the calendar used was solar, Muslims living in one hemisphere would have the advantage of fasting in cooler, shorter days, while those living in the other hemisphere would have to fast in the hot and longer days throughout their lifetime. With the lunar calendar, however, the seasons rotate every 32 or 33 years so that the difficulty or ease of fasting is equally shared by all Muslims around the world. This calendar also leads to the rotation of Hajj among the different seasons.

Some History
Before the advent of Islam, Arabs used the lunar calendar. This calendar - 11 days shorter than the Gregorian calendar- did not follow the seasons. The yearly Hajj or Pilgrimage at that time of idol worshiping was more like a big festival, and since the lunar calendar did not follow the seasons, the Hajj took place during a different month each year. This meant that during certain years, the Hajj came during the seasons when the crops were not yet ready for harvest and therefore not available for sale, thus interfering with the feast preparations for this event.

The Arabs therefore devised a method to overcome this predicament by adding a month to the calendar on certain years. This method was called kabisa. The time when the Hajj was to occur thus became variable and the announcement of its date was subsequently made during the preceding Hajj. This announcement was first the responsibility of a man named Qalammas. Qalammas was from the Bani Kinana tribe, the tribe from which Hashim 464–546 A.D. was a descendant and who later became the father of the Quraish tribe (the tribe of the Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him). Qalammas was also responsible for announcing which month was to be followed by the extra thirteenth month. All those who took up this occupation of announcing the Hajj time were thence called Qalammasa.

The Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) announced the discontinuation of the practice of kabisa and the abandonment of the Qalammasi calendar. The lunar calendar was used as ordained by Allah and the time for Hajj was fixed on the same day of each lunar year.
The following Quranic verse entails the use of the lunar calendar as the calendar to be followed by Muslims:

“He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning.” (Surah10 Verse 5)

In this next verse Allah directs the Muslims to fix the time of Hajj:

“They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to make fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage.” (Surah 2 Verse 189)


Setting the Beginning of an Era

The Lunar calendar was therefore used during the time of the Prophet; no fixed year, however, was set to be used as the beginning of the Islamic era. It is reported by Ibn Abbas that the people of Medina came to use a month or two after the arrival of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) as the beginning of their calendar, but this was discontinued after his death. There was no era used during the caliphate of Abu Bakr. It was not until the fourth year of the second Caliph, Omar ibn AlKhatab, that the Hijra calendar was to be used. Ahmad ibn Hanbal and al-Bukhari report through Maymun ibn Mihran that "an I.O.U. payable in Sha'ban was presented to Omar. Thereupon, Omar asked which Sha'ban, last Sha'ban, or this one or the coming one? Give the people something that they can understand."

AlHurmuzan, the former king of alAhwaz (before his capture by the Muslims during the conquest of Persia) who later converted to Islam, suggested the use of the Persian calendar. This calendar, however, did not gain acceptance by the Muslims, as it had no fixed epoch since the Persian era was started anew after the ascension of each new king to the throne. After listening to the different suggestions, the Muslims agreed upon the use of the Hijra (immigration) of the prophet from Mecca to Medina as the start of the Islamic era. The first of Muharram of the year 1 A.H coincided with July 16, 622 by the Gregorian calendar.

The Hijra was used instead of the birth date of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or the date of the revelation of the Holy Quran since the exact date of these two events was not known for certain. The date of the prophet’s death, although known, was too sad an event to use. It was thus decided that the Hijra was to be used to mark the beginning of the Islamic calendar.

Before the advent of the Hijra calendar, years were named according to the major event that occurred during that particular year and this was used as their dating system. For example, the first year of the Prophet's stay in Medina was called 'The year of the permission to travel'. The second year was 'The year of the command to fight'. The third year was 'The year of the test', and so on. This system was abandoned after the Prophet’s death. (Said, Hakim, 1984)

The twelve lunar months are Muharram, Safar, Rabi I, Rabi II, Jumada I, Jumada II, Rajab, Sha’ban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah. The number of days in each month alternates between 29 and 30 days. The lunar year therefore consists of 354 days. The Islamic calendar divides time into cycles of 30 years. In each cycle there are 19 years consisting of 354 days and 11 years consisting of an extra day making them 355 days long.

My Question ... Why we have to Question something prophet peace be up on him already did for Muslims and he used lunar system arabic clander? are we trying to prove he is right or we trying to say he was not right :astag: ????? we know that Allah guided him to the right path.. so who are we to come and question his action peace be up on him???

wa salaam alikom
Reference : Islamonline.net

 

[cyrusarif]

Salamun Alaikum,

salaam Alikom

So are you trying to say that what the prophet peace be upon him did was wrong by selecting the lunar system and arabic clander?
or that the prophet peace be up on him was wrong when he said

صوموا لرؤيته وأفطروا لرؤيته​

(Start fasting with wtiness of moon and end your fast (celebrate Eid) with witnessing the moon)

Only Lunar clander gose by moon sighting...so the Hadith should be enough answer ..

No, what I want to say is that that Prophet S.A.W.A.W. has never adopted the Lunar calendar and it is an serious allegation on Him that he has done something which is not supported by Quraan rather against the Quraanic verses. The correctness of the narration attributed to him is debateable. Further if it is correct in toto, how did you reveal that by ‘witnessing’ necessarily means witnessing of moon?

to clearfy more you answered your Question by your self ....
Soora Toba, Ayat "
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ {36}
" “Lo! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth.” (Surah 9 Verse 36) "

Then the Verses continue of them four are sacred:

The Scared 4 month are only in arabic lunar clander (Muharram,Rajab, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah ) Not in the solar clander ....they were known to Arabs

..so inshallah hopfully this answer your question.


First of all be clear that I am not in general disputing the names of Islamic Months. What I am trying to communicate is that, that the system of calculation of months and years is in the Eyes of Allah as per Quranic verses is Solar and not Lunar. Further, Sacred months are not those as mentioned by you but these should be consecutive as evident from ayat :2 & 5 of Sura tawba which says: فَسِيحُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ {2}
9:2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ {5}
9:5] “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful”. So basically these are the Months which have been in other words referred as Hajj Season in history of Islam which starts from 1st of Shawwal.

Another reasong for using the lunar system
The Islamic calendar being lunar instead of solar has great significance concerning the month of Ramadan. If the calendar used was solar, Muslims living in one hemisphere would have the advantage of fasting in cooler, shorter days, while those living in the other hemisphere would have to fast in the hot and longer days throughout their lifetime. With the lunar calendar, however, the seasons rotate every 32 or 33 years so that the difficulty or ease of fasting is equally shared by all Muslims around the world. This calendar also leads to the rotation of Hajj among the different seasons.


This reasoning is imagined just to satisfy ourselves otherwise by itself it is a major defect of the system that at one place people are fasting for just 4 or 5 hours whereas the people of the other places at the same time fasting for 18 to 20 hours. How can you call it just? But in the solar calendar Ramzan should always come at the beginning of hot seasons in which day and night duration at every hemisphere remains almost equal ( the meaning of the word ‘Ramzan’ as per the dictionaries is hot or heat) (It will be interesting for you to check the meanings of the names of Islamic calendar months and you will be surprised to know that mostly indicate the seasons. E.g.,Rabi-ul-Awwal, Rabi-us-sani, Jamadi-ul-awwal, Jamadi-us-sani, Shawwal etc).

The Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) announced the discontinuation of the practice of kabisa and the abandonment of the Qalammasi calendar. The lunar calendar was used as ordained by Allah and the time for Hajj was fixed on the same day of each lunar year.
The following Quranic verse entails the use of the lunar calendar as the calendar to be followed by Muslims:

“He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning.” (Surah10 Verse 5)


Can you just tell me how can you know the number of years leaving apart the sun? It is the Sun for which the transitional phenomena of changing the day into night and the night into day is attributed, which is a basic unit of weeks, months and the year. Further you can just compare the verse of Sura Al-Asra`a. 12 which says:

وَجَعَلْنَا اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ آيَتَيْنِ فَمَحَوْنَا آيَةَ اللَّيْلِ وَجَعَلْنَا آيَةَ النَّهَارِ مُبْصِرَةً لِتَبْتَغُواْ فَضْلاً مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلِتَعْلَمُواْ عَدَدَ السِّنِينَ وَالْحِسَابَ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ تَفْصِيلاً {12}
[17:12] “And We appoint the night and the day two portents. Then We make dark the portent of the night, and We make the portent of the day sight-giving, that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the computation of the years, and the reckoning; and everything have We expounded with a clear expounding”. Do you find any word that indicate to the moon for computation of years?

In this next verse Allah directs the Muslims to fix the time of Hajj:

“They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to make fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage.” (Surah 2 Verse 189)

The complete verse is reproduced here for your re-consideration:


The complete verse is reproduced here for your re-consideration:

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الأهِلَّةِ قُلْ هِيَ مَوَاقِيتُ لِلنَّاسِ وَالْحَجِّ وَلَيْسَ الْبِرُّ بِأَنْ تَأْتُوْاْ الْبُيُوتَ مِن ظُهُورِهَا وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنِ اتَّقَى وَأْتُواْ الْبُيُوتَ مِنْ أَبْوَابِهَا وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {189}
[Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon. Say: They are times appointed for (the benefit of) men, and (for) the pilgrimage; and it is not righteousness that you should enter the houses at their backs, but righteousness is this that one should guard (against evil); and go into the houses by their doors and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, that you may be successful.
[Pickthal 2:189] They ask thee, (O Muhammad), of new moons, say: They are fixed seasons for mankind and for the pilgrimage. It is not righteousness that ye go to houses by the backs thereof (as do the idolaters at certain seasons), but the righteous man is he who wardeth off (evil). So go to houses by the gates thereof, and observe your duty to Allah, that ye may be successful

This Ayat is the one among those which have totally misunderstood by all the Muslims indiscriminately. Following are my objections upon the translation of the ayat and then my understandings:
1. Peoples asked from the Prophet s.a.w.a.w. regarding some ‘Ahillah’ with relation to the Hajj. Allah s.w.t. tell them that these are(as per already understood meanings) the times for people for Hajj. My objection is that, that why this ayat is revealed in relation to the Hajj which is performed on 9th of Zil-Hajj which is not in any case be directly dependent upon sighting of ‘hilal’ (the Arabic word ‘hilal’ is used for the crescent which is either the first moon that is appeared on sunset of 1st lunar date or the last moon which appears on the 26th or 27th or sometime 28th of lunar month). The shape of moon on 9th of any lunar month can’t be termed as ‘hilal’ which after crossing the half moon comes near to full moon for which in Arabic word ‘badar’ is used. And I think you cannot say that Allah s.w.t. didn’t know this difference. So the word ‘Ahillah’ by all translators and narrators has been misunderstood which actually is not the plural of word ‘hilal’ but it is the plural of word ‘haleel’ which means to chant or to make noise.

2. The word ‘mawaqeet’ is also the word which is totally misunderstood by all the translators and narrators. I failed to understand why people could not understood the word ‘mawaqeet’ even the specific reference of hajj is there. Basically word mawaqeet is the plural of word ‘meqaat’ and I think everybody know what this word has the relation with Hajj.

In my understanding peoples asked from Prophet s.a.w.a.w. regarding the places from where they have to start chanting of ‘lab`baik Allah humma lab`baik’ and Allah s.w.t. told them that these the same mawaqeet. and those who perform Hajj know that meeqaat around the Macca are numerous and this is the place from where they use to wear special clothings which are called ‘ahraam’ and practically start chanting.


I Allah Guide you for the right path, Ameen.

regards
Cyrusarif

 

[Mrmuslim]

QUOTE=cyrusarif]
First of all be clear that I am not in general disputing the names of Islamic Months. What I am trying to communicate is that, that the system of calculation of months and years is in the Eyes of Allah as per Quranic verses is Solar and not Lunar.
No, what I want to say is that that Prophet S.A.W.A.W. has never adopted the Lunar calendar and it is an serious allegation on Him that he has done something which is not supported by Quraan rather against the Quraanic verses. The correctness of the narration attributed to him is debateable. Further if it is correct in toto, how did you reveal that by ‘witnessing’ necessarily means witnessing of moon

salaam alikom
how did you figure it out that the system is lunar in the eye of Allah !!!? I would like to really know..... Non of the companion or the 4 Khlafaa objected on the Muslim using the lunar system the month of Ramadan and Hajj is decided by the sighting of the moon.

# 2 Arab have been using these month( Arabic month which decided by lunar system) and they were know to the Arab before the Islam, and the prophet peace be up on him continued using these month.

QUOTE=cyrusarif
be clear that I am not in general disputing the names of Islamic Months. What I am trying to communicate is that, that the system of calculation of months and years is in the Eyes of Allah as per Quranic verses is Solar and not Lunar. Further, Sacred months are not those as mentioned by you but these should be consecutive as evident from ayat :2 & 5 of Sura tawba which says: فَسِيحُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ {2}
9:2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will

this really not making any sesne its Well know from hadith(and there is ahadith in this matter) that the 4 sacred month are as i mentioned them ....!!


Islam has made use of both the lunar and solar system of measuring times. Where worship is to be performed in different parts of the day the solar system of reckoning time is used as in the five daily Prayers or for the beginning and breaking of the fast, and where worship is to be completed within a particular month or part thereof, the lunar system is used, as in the determination of the month or part thereof, the lunar system is used, as in the determination of the month of fasting or fixing the time of Hajj or other festivals


QUOTE=cyrusarif]
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الأهِلَّةِ قُلْ هِيَ مَوَاقِيتُ لِلنَّاسِ وَالْحَجِّ وَلَيْسَ الْبِرُّ بِأَنْ تَأْتُوْاْ الْبُيُوتَ مِن ظُهُورِهَا
وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنِ اتَّقَى وَأْتُواْ الْبُيُوتَ مِنْ أَبْوَابِهَا وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {189}
[Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon. Say: They are times appointed for (the benefit of) men, and (for) the pilgrimage; and it is not righteousness that you should enter the houses at their backs, but righteousness is this that one should guard (against evil); and go into the houses by their doors and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, that you may be successful.
This Ayat is the one among those which have totally misunderstood by all the Muslims indiscriminately. Following are my objections upon the translation of the ayat and then my understandings:
1. Peoples asked from the Prophet s.a.w.a.w. regarding some ‘Ahillah’ with relation to the Hajj. Allah s.w.t. tell them that these are(as per already understood meanings) the times for people for Hajj. My objection is that, that why this ayat is revealed in relation to the Hajj which is performed on 9th of Zil-Hajj which is not in any case be directly dependent upon sighting of ‘hilal’ (the Arabic word ‘hilal’ is used for the crescent which is either the first moon that is appeared on sunset of 1st lunar date or the last moon which appears on the 26th or 27th or sometime 28th of lunar month). The shape of moon on 9th of any lunar month can’t be termed as ‘hilal’ which after crossing the half moon comes near to full moon for which in Arabic word ‘badar’ is used. And I think you cannot say that Allah s.w.t. didn’t know this difference. So the word ‘Ahillah’ by all translators and narrators has been misunderstood which actually is not the plural of word ‘hilal’ but it is the plural of word ‘haleel’ which means to chant or to make noise

Yes the word hilal means crescent the begining of the moon and when the moon is full its called Badar, but the word "Ahillah" ...Ahillah is plural of the Hilal which crescent of the moon
you call the moon when its in begining Hilal...
I never HEARD IN my life so far HALEEL as plural of Hilal , Ahillah is plural of Hilal. so you are wrong in Haleel ..Haleel means making noise but in NO WAY its a Plural of Hilal.
...
I HOPE YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ARABIC...BUT I WILL TRY TO TRANSLATE AS MUCH AS I CAN....

الأهلَّة:

جَمعُ الهلال، وجُمِعَ وهو واحد في الحقيقة من حيث كونه هلالاً واحداً في شهر غير كونه هلالاً في آخر، فإنما جمع أحواله من الأهلة.​

Ahillah, is a plural of a Hilal

ويطلق لفظ الهلال لليلتين من آخر الشهر وليلتين من أوله، وقيل: لثلاث من أوله، وقال الأصمعي: هو هلال حتى يحجر ويستدير كالخيط الرقيق، وقيل: بل هو هلال حتى يبهر بضوئه السماء وذلك ليلة سبع، قال أبو العباس: وإنما قيل له هلال؛ لأن الناس يرفعون أصواتهم بالإخبار عنه.​

the meaning: They called Hilal of 2 nights in the first of the month or at last 2 nights of a month ,, elAsmai said: is a Hilal till it become solid and circle, and it was said or called Hilal till it become bright in the sky, then it wont be hilal.
and it was called Hilal because people raise thier voice to alert people of the hilal.


why these Ayat were revealed to the prophet peace be up on him

يكاد يتفق أهل التفسير في نقل سبب نزول الآية إلا أن بعضهم أبهم وبعضهم صرح في ذكر الذي كان سائلاً رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - عن الهلال ونزلت الآية لسؤاله.
قال الإمام القرطبي - رحمه الله - : هذا مما سأل عنه اليهود واعترضوا به النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فقال معاذ - رضي الله عنه - : يا رسول الله إن اليهود تغشانا ويكثرون مسألتنا عن الأهلة، فما بال الهلال يبدو دقيقاً ثم يزيد حتى يستوي ويستدير ثم ينتقص حتى يعود كما كان؟ فأنزل الله هذه الآية، وقيل: إن سبب نزولها سؤال قوم من المسلمين النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - عن الهلال وما سبب محاقه وكماله ومخالفته لحال الشمس، قاله ابن عباس و قتادة والربيع وغيرهم1.
قال في زاد المسير: هذه الآية من أولها إلى قوله: "والحج" نزلت على سبب، وهو أن رجلين من الصحابة قالا: يا رسول الله: ما بال الهلال يبدو دقيقا ثم يزيد ويمتليء حتى يستدير ويستوي ثم لا يزال ينقص ويدق حتى يعود كما كان؟ فنزلت: يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الأهِلَّةِ قُلْ هِيَ مَوَاقِيتُ لِلنَّاسِ وَالْحَجِّ}. هذا قول ابن عباس]

I wiil try to translate as much as i can ...
the reason these ayat were revealed
most of the Tafseer people almost agree that reason of revealing these ayat the what Muaz said to the prophet that Jews were asking and bothering Muslims by asking them about how come the Hilal start small then it become bigger and then it continue to go back as it was started....and it was said the reason these Ayat were revealed that some of muslim asked the prophet peace be up on him how come the moon ss opposit of sun (meaning the sun is always full and circle)
in Zaad el Muyasr( the reason these Ayat were revealed because 2 companion of the prophet peace be up onhim said : O' Prophet of Allah how come the Hilal (moon in its begning) looks very small and tiny then it increase and becom full moon then it start decreasing and go back as it was started) so that why Allah revealed these ayat

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الأهِلَّةِ قُلْ هِيَ مَوَاقِيتُ لِلنَّاسِ وَالْحَجِّ
They ask you concerning the new moon. say its mawqeet for people and hajj


I hope you understand Arabic .. beause here you will understand the meaning of Miqaat and what the meaning of the above Ayat (verses) and why it was said its mawqeet for people and Hajj..
but i will try to translate as much as I can

قوله تعالى: {قُلْ هِيَ مَوَاقِيتُ لِلنَّاسِ والحجِّ}​

المِيقاتُ: مصدر الوَقْت، والآخِرةُ مِيقاتُ الخَلْقِ، ومَواضِعُ الإِحرامِ مَواقيتُ الحاجِّ، والهِلالُ مِيقاتُ الشَّهْرِ​

the meaning of Almiqaat is source of the time, and Alkirah (hereafter) is miqaat of all nation. and the place where pilgrims make Ihram called Miqaat elHaaj ( place for a pilgrim to make his/her Ihram)

and so Alhilal is a Miqaat of the month (meaning its the time of starting a month)

The miqaat can be for both time and location

والمواقيت: جمع ميقات بمعنى الوقت، كالميعاد بمعنى الوعد، والفرق بينه وبين المدة والزمان: أن المدة المطلقة امتداد​

Almawqeet is Plural of almiqaat, like in appointment as promise ..

ومعنى الآية: (يسألونك يا محمد عن الأهلة ومحاقها وسِرَارِها وَتمامها واستوائها، وتغير أحوالها بزيادة ونُقصان وَمحاق واستسرار، وما المعنى الذي خَالف بينه وبين الشمس التي هي دائمة أبدًا على حال واحدة لا تتغير بزيادة ولا نقصان؟

فقُلْ يا محمد: خالف بين ذلك ربُّكم لتصييره الأهلة - التي سألتم عن أمرها، ومخالفة ما بينها وبين غيرها فيما خالف بينها وبينه - مواقيتَ لكم ولغيركم من بني آدم في معايشهم، ترقبون بزيادتها ونقصانها ومحاقِها واستسرارها وإهلالكم إياها، أوقات حلّ ديونكم، وانقضاء مدة إجارة من استأجرتموه، وتصرُّم عدة نسائكم، ووقت صومكم وإفطاركم، فجعلها مواقيت للناس​

I will try my best and I hope if i miss anything in the translation some one correct me and edit the meaning:

meaning of the Ayah, and they ask you Oh'Mohammed about "Alahilah" and about its secerts and fullness and about the changing of its status by increasing and decreasing in its status, and the point was from this question how come the sun is always in the same status full, dosent change by decreasing or increasing

so Allah swt said " say Oh'Mohammed Allah made the difference between sun and moon(Alahilah) the one you were asking about so the Ahillah be Mawqeet for you and for other people in thier daily life, by suprvising its increase and decrease ( the moon) to decide when you should ask for your money the one you loaned, and to be mawaqeet (time) for you to know the end of people you hired to do some work for you, and to be Mawqeet (time) to know when to start fasting and when to end. so Allah made it Mawqeet (time) for people


QUOTE=cyrusarif]
1. Peoples asked from the Prophet s.a.w.a.w. regarding some ‘Ahillah’ with relation to the Hajj. Allah s.w.t. tell them that these are(as per already understood meanings) the times for people for Hajj. My objection is that, that why this ayat is revealed in relation to the Hajj which is performed on 9th of Zil-Hajj which is not in any case be directly dependent upon sighting of ‘hilal’ (the Arabic word ‘hilal’ is used for the crescent which is either the first moon that is appeared on sunset of 1st lunar date or the last moon

قوله تعالى: }وَالْحَجِّ}: يعني: وللحجِّ، يقول: وجعلها - أيضًا - ميقاتًا لحجكم، تعرفون بها وقت مناسككم وحَجكم​

and Allah said (Hajj) and he made it Miqaat (time) for your Hajj, its a miqaat to know when to do your Manasek and Hajj,

and YES the month of Hajj is decided by the sighting of the moon. and its include the day of Arfah and the day of arfah is decided by sighting of the moon for the month of Thulhijjah.
هلال ذي الحجة مختلف عن هلال رمضان؛ لأن شهر ذي الحجة يقع فيه يوم عبادة وهو يوم عرفة الذي يكون في اليوم التاسع من ذي الحجة، ويلزم الحجاج أن يكونوا تبعا لأهل مكة في عرفة، وإن اختلفت بلدانهم في رؤية الهلال

and all the pilgrims should follow the sighting of the moon in makkah for Hajj and the day of Arafah even if thier country moon sighting will be different from Makkah sighting.

one thing more
QUOTE=cyrusarif ( the meaning of the word ‘Ramzan’ as per the dictionaries is hot or heat) (It will be interesting for you to check the meanings of the names of Islamic calendar months and you will be surprised to know that mostly indicate the seasons. E.g.,Rabi-ul-Awwal, Rabi-us-sani, Jamadi-ul-awwal, Jamadi-us-sani, Shawwal etc).
الشهور في العام الهجري لا ترتبط بالمواسم التي يتم تحديدها أساساً عن طريق الدورة الشمسية، مما يعني أن الأعياد الإسلامية التي دائماً في نفس الشهر من كل عام، قد تأتي في مواسم مختلفة، فالحج وشهر رمضان على سبيل المثال يمكن أن يأتيا في فصل الصيف أو الشتاء على حد سواء.

Hijra months in the year are not linked with the season which identified mainly through the solar cycle, This means that the Islamic holidays always in the same month of each year, may come in different seasons. like th month of Hajj and Ramadan, for example, could come in the summer or winter alike.
and Allah knows the best...

what you saying is right the meaning of Ramdan comes from Heat.... but when they started naming the months, Ramdan was in summer... so they called it Ramdan,

لماذا أطلق اللّه سبحانه اسم شهر رمضان على شهر الصيام ؟

وما معنى رمضان ؟ وما الحكمة فى ذلك ؟


وشهر رمضان - مادة الراء والميم والضاد - كلها تدل على الحرارة والقيظ

Ramdan is coming from Heat​

(

رمض الإنسان ) يعنى : حرقه العطش ، والرمضاء الرمل الحارة ​

،

when we say "the human being Ramad" it mean from the thirst and elRamda is the hot Sand​

الماشية رمضت ، يعنى : الحر أصاب خفها فلم تعد تقوى أن تضع رجلهاعلى الأرض مأخوذ إذن من الحر والقيظ الشديد​

،

when we say Rmadat el mashya = means The heat effected the sheep's leg that she cant put them down on the ground from the heat​

وكأن الناس حينما جاءوا ليضعوا أسماء للشهور صادف ذلك فى رمضان كان فى وقت الحر ( كما أن ربيع أول ربيع ثان كانا فى وقت الربيع ) وكأنهم لاحظوا الأوصاف فى الشهور ساعة التسمية ، ثم دار الزمن الخاص العربى ( الهلالى ) فى
الزمن العام ( الشمسى ) فجاء رمضان فى برد ، وجاء فى خريف ، لكن ساعة التسمية كان فى الحر ، إذن التسمية فى رمضان لوحظ فيها وقت إطلاق التسمية ، كأن الحق سبحانه وتعالى باختياره لهذا الشهر ذلك
الاسم ليدل بذلك على المشقة التى تعترى الصائم​

its like when the people came to put the name of the month it was conisdence that the Ramdan was in the time of heat same like Rabi came in the season of spring...(I think) but now days we can see Ramdan comes in summer and cold time but according to moon sighting.​

إن الشمس لا تستطيع أن تعرف بها الشهر ، إنما هى سمة لتحديد اليوم ، فاليوم من مشرق الشمس إلى المشرق التالى ، وهذا يوم له ليل وله نهار ، والشمس ليست فيها علامة مميزة سطحية ظاهرة بحيث يفهمها الإنسان ، إنما الهلال يأتى فى أول الشهر ، بعد المحاق يبدو ويظهر ، إذن فهنا علامة ميزت وجود الشهر ، إذن فالهلال جاء لتمييز الشهر​

the month cant known by sun, rather the sun use to identify the day
The day is from the day sun rise till the next day of sun rise ( this a complete day)
beside sun is dosnt have any distinctive superficial phenomenon that human being can understand while Crescent (Hilal) comes in the first of a month
so it has a distinguished mark to notify the begining of a month

The Hilal Crescent distinguished mark of a month, while the sun
came to distinguish the Day

that why we need both ..as i mentioned before. Islam has made use of both the lunar and solar system of measuring times. Where worship is to be performed in different parts of the day the solar system of reckoning time is used as in the five daily Prayers or for the beginning and breaking of the fast, and where worship is to be completed within a particular month or part thereof, the lunar system is used, as in the determination of the month or part thereof, the lunar system is used, as in the determination of the month of fasting or fixing the time of Hajj or other festivals​

As for me I am done discussing this issue, the companion of the prophet peace be up on him never objected on using the lunar system to decide the month i am no position oppose this.

If there is mistake its from me and the right from Allah swt,

Allah knows best
Wa salaam Alikom
refrence:http://www.alimam.ws
http://www.islamicfinder.org​