MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by esperanza, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. esperanza
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    esperanza revert of many years

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    just read a disturbing article aobut how muslims are taking over,,,some very insulting comments about muslims,,but the positive thing,,,,,,muslims are definitely on the increase in europe, while other religions are weakening





    ,Some 5% of the E.U., or nearly 20 million persons, presently identify themselves as Muslims; should current trends continue, that number will reach 10% by 2020. If non-Muslims flee the new Islamic order, as seems likely, the continent could be majority-Muslim within decades.

    When that happens, grand cathedrals will appear as vestiges of a prior civilization - at least until a Saudi style regime transforms them into mosques or a Taliban-like regime blows them up. The great national cultures - Italian, French, English, and others - will likely wither, replaced by a new transnational Muslim identity that merges North African, Turkish, subcontinental, and other elements....

    ..."Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam, a colony of Islam." So declares Oriana Fallaci in her new book, La Forza della Ragione, or, "The Force of Reason." And the famed Italian journalist is right: Christianity's ancient stronghold of Europe is rapidly giving way to Islam. Two factors mainly contribute to this world-shaking development.

    The hollowing out of Christianity. Europe is increasingly a post-Christian society, one with a diminishing connection to its tradition and its historic values. The numbers of believing, observant Christians has collapsed in the past two generations to the point that some observers call it the "new dark continent." Already, analysts estimate Britain's mosques host more worshippers each week than does the Church of England.


    An anemic birth rate. Indigenous Europeans are dying out. Sustaining a population requires each woman on average to bear 2.1 children; in the European Union, the overall rate is one-third short, at 1.5 a woman, and falling. One study finds that, should current population trends continue and immigration cease, today's population of 375 million could decline to 275 million by 2075.To keep its working population even, the E.U. needs 1.6 million immigrants a year; to sustain the present workers-to-retirees ratio requires an astonishing 13.5 million immigrants annually. Into the void are coming Islam and Muslims. As Christianity falters, Islam is robust, assertive, and ambitious. As Europeans underreproduce at advanced ages, Muslims do so in large numbers while young.

    : Today, Germany has about four million Muslims—five percent of the population, making Islam the second largest religion. Germany has more Muslims than Lebanon and twice as many mosques as the United States
  2. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    There is a lecture posted on TTI with Tariq Ramadan discussing the issue of European Muslims.

    Next location for Muslims: The Americas
  3. YusufN
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    YusufN Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    I don't think a 'Islamist/Taliban' takeover of Europe is ever likely. The domination of Islam on Europe will probably never happen in Europe. I think the current secular/liberal has a great influence on Muslim youth. Many are adopting a liberal stance and because of this, Europe will stay secular for along time.

    Most Muslims who emigrate to Europe are fleeing to get freedom or safety, there not going to a Taliban state. Otherwise they are more likely to stay. Don't be scared as these are just rumors that they create just to battle with Islam :)

    I'm fine with a secular state as long as my religious freedom is secure and I am able to worship without difficultly.
  4. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    It is interesting that you use the word Islamist/Taliban and compare it to a secular state.

    Please be so kind as to define what you mean by Islamist/Taliban.
  5. Perseveranze
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    Perseveranze Junior Member

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    Be careful of such sites that allow/don't moderate the commenting, you have little idea how much of a "Islam hate bandwagon" there is on the internet. These people are usually unintellectual, Islamaphobes that simply hate. Avoid reading it, because their insulting stuff and will no doubt get you annoyed, so avoidance is best, especially in the month or ramadan, else you'll end up stooping to their level.

    The beauty of it, Allah(swt) makes their hate a fuel for our Growth.
  6. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    :salam2:

    "MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE" sounds typical slogan of those right-wing politicians whose try to get more supporters for they racist parties in many countries in Europe. By kind of slogans they try to prove to audience that islam is something danger what will destroy all European "civilization and higher European culture" - what ever it really is.
  7. YusufN
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    YusufN Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    If you watch western media, you will notice they associate the rise of the Muslim population and blindly assume they will bring 'bloody sharia' along with. Some even say there is a Islamist conspiracy against the west... They do this comparison alot.

    I define Islamist as 'an ideology that Islam is not only a religion but a political ideology as well'. Most groups who adopt this ideology are usually terrorist groups. We all know that the term "Islamist" corresponds with the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah and other such groups which think similarly.

    The term "Taliban country" or "Islamist country" is in my view 'a country that adopts policies similar to the Taliban during there reign'. Some of those ideas are..

    -Forcing women to wear full veils
    -Confining women to there homes
    -Idea that women are not to hold jobs
    -Stoning people to death
    -Destroying other places of worship
    -Islam being the only legal religion
    -Torturing/killing political dissidents
    -Torturing/killing those who do not appove of above laws

    you get the idea...
  8. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    :salam2:

    Hmmm... after kind of opinion, I think this will become one more hot topic here...
  9. YusufN
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    YusufN Junior Member

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    What do you mean by that?
  10. Wannabemuslim
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    Wannabemuslim Junior Member

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    This seems like an islamaphobiu arguement
  11. ShahnazZ
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    ShahnazZ Striving2BeAStranger

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    It means that the debate on the Taliban is a popular one on this forum and usually is very intense.

    You'll see.
  12. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Sister,

    This fasting warrior is tired today. How is my little sister?

    Insha'Allah, we will start the education process tomorrow.

    Hey, Sister Shahnaz...I'll recruit you.

    Are we ready...here we go:

    Brother,

    Brother please let me welcome you to TTI.

    Help me out here. Islam is 24/7. The practice of faith means that the articles of faith will spill over into all arenas of life. A Muslim prays five times a day. If a Muslim works, to be a practicing Muslim they will find a place to pray at work. Correct. Yes.
    Now..as a Muslim I can not by definition be a party to or subscribe to any political agenda that says same sex marriage is viable. I, as a Muslim, will have to ask that such legislation be revoked. I will have to work at trying to repeal the law. Correct, Yes.

    Now..please be so kind as to explain to me how one can separate ones faith from ones political ideology. And please be so kind as to give me both Quran and hadeeth.
  13. YusufN
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    YusufN Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    Thank you for introducing me to the forum! I hope this does not get to serious! :)

    One must remember the terms very well before a discussion. As I have defined earlier 'Islamist' or 'Islamism' in my view is 'an ideology that Islam is not only an religion but also a political ideology'.

    Ideology is in my view is 'a set of ideas that constitutes one's goals, expectations, and actions.'

    Your question was "explain to me how one can separate ones faith from ones political ideology". Your right sister. You can't separate Islam and politics if you are a Muslim. It certainly plays a factor. The basis of a Muslim life (politics, banking, warfare, environment and other matters) must be based on the sphere of revelations. But with the term 'Islamist' or 'Islamism' it as I have defined it is ''an ideology that Islam is not only an religion but also a political ideology'.

    As you can see I have highlighted 'a'. It means it is an political ideology. But since when is 'Islam' an ideology...?

    Last time I checked it was a way of life, as an ideology is based on ones 'interpretation of ideas' and has nothing to do with faith. Our interpretation of Islam influences our ideology but is not our ideology.

    If someone ask you "what is your view on (somerandomsubject)?" You won't say 'Islam', but you will give them your idea on the matter. But if another Muslim shares an opposing view and can back it up logically using the Quran or a 'Shahih' Hadith then they are entitled to their opinion. If Islam was a ideology then you would had the same answer.

    I'm not trying to say Islam is separate from ideology, but I am saying it's not an ideology like some promote it to be.
  14. YusufN
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    YusufN Junior Member

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    haha is it really?
  15. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    Brother YusufN, you understand very well that Islam is a way of life. Then how can you be happy with your state's way of life be a one of those who reject Islam? Secularism is anti-Islam. Because in Islam, as you have mentioned it being a way of life which is true, you can not separate it from any aspects of your life. If there was no need of a Islamic state, the Prophet Muhammad :saw: could have practiced the faith individually and not preach it (as offered by the kuffar leaders). They would not have harmed him or his followers, as long as they would have obeyed the kuffars and give allegiance to them as the leaders and let them carry on to do what ever they want. Allah sent us on earth to represent Allaah's laws, that none has the right to be worshiped but Allaah. How will you fulfill that duty by being okay with a secular state ?
  16. YusufN
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    YusufN Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    Hello brother. I'm not Anti-Islamic as you claim. I follow the laws stated in the Quran to the best of my ability. If I don't drink alcohol or commit adultery, where would that law come into place? The Quran is very flexible because it was meant for all mankind.

    To the contrary, secularism was actually taught by our Prophet Muhammad :saw: The first 'Ummah' included Pagans, Jews and Christians. Plus there was no compulsion in Religion. Our prophet :saw: actually established equal rights to everyone. The rights of non-Muslims included:

    -The security of Allah to everyone
    -Non-Muslim members have equal political and cultural rights as Muslims. They will have autonomy and freedom of religion
    -Non-Muslims will take up arms against the enemy of the Ummah and share the cost of war.
    -There would be no treachery between the two
    -Non-Muslims will not be obliged to take part in religious wars of the Muslims

    Look it up. :)
  17. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    I did not say you are anti-Islamic. You are confusing the meaning of the word secularism. Secularism dictates democracy --- and democracy dictates that all laws be of that which people favor (majority). A prophet Muhammad :saw: did not establish secularism. In Islam there is no compulsion in religion, but they had to live under the code of conduct of Islam. The non-muslims were banned to do tawaf naked (Sura Tawba). Laws were in place and no body could buy or sell alcohol. Establishing equal rights does not mean secularism. Look it up brother. Jews and Christians were allowed to practice, but not preach. New churches and Synagogues were not allowed to build (only those present already had to be used and not harmed).
  18. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    There was justice not equal rights. Non-Muslims had to pay jizya and tax on land but not the Muslims. And all are not same -- Imagine if there was no selling of Alcohol, how many would have been saved from falling into its trap. Imagine there was proper law of Hijab, how many would be saved from falling into zina. Just because you do not do haram does not mean that the law for those are to not to be established.
  19. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    Also do not misinterpret when I say "not equal rights". I will draw an example to clarify:

    A Muslim could propagate his religion freely.
    A non-Muslim could not propagate his religion at all, only could practice it themselves.
    Muslims could build new mosques.
    Non-Muslims could not build new places of worship.
  20. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Asalamaoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

    Ahem! I see, one of the moderate modern muslims hmm? *Smile*. I think Aapa is the right person to help you out here.

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