MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
:salam2:

Strange but of my mind we are talking in this thread two different matters; "MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE"- matter and then Taliban/hadith- matters.

:confused: Not sure are we talking about same issues.

To Just A Guy:

I find it amusing and disturbing at the same time that non-Muslims in Europe are freaking out over the "Muslim Invasion" of Europe. As if 5% of a population is really an invasion.

This seems typical here too in my country where far-right wing of political parties makes it a big issue that "muslim population dangers original (christian) culture and values" when here less than 1% of population are muslims...
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
:salam2:

Thank you for the the Hadith! Masha'Allah! But I think dont think that Hadith is 'shahih'.

But can I ask you a question? Did the prophet :saw: follow the Quran completely?

If so... then why did he stone people to death? The answer is obvious. He didn't stone nobody. It says in the Quran the punishment and it makes it very clear as the Quran is the clearest and greatest...

(Quran 24:2: The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.)

As you can see here the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes. Not stoning to death. The Prophet :saw: clearly followed the Quran so that makes the stoning Hadith unreliable.


Show me in the Quran where it says stoning to death is a punishment? It's not a punishment. It's an innovation.

The Quran it'self says it's the best Hadith.


(Quran 4:87: Allah - there is no deity except Him. He will surely assemble you for [account on] the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. And who is more truthful than Allah in statement?)

Quran 39:23: Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah . That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray - for him there is no guide.)


The Quran itself says to follow no other sources but the Quran.


(Quran 77:50: Then in what statement after the Qur'an will they believe?)

(Quran 45:6: These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?)

The Hadith does not abrogate the Quran. Never will, never does. I only accept an Hadith if it fits my very strict criteria.

Imam Bhukari and other writers have made many mistakes with their corrupt Hadith collection, so how can them believe them him over Allah in punishment????

Please answer the Question (Does Imam Bhukari's Hadith abrogate the Quran?) I posted as I would like to be more knowledgable. Sorry If I made any mistake in my opinion and please correct me or my traslations if I did.

Sidenotes
- (The word Hadith means 'revelation' or 'story' and out of the 36 times it says the word, all of it refers to Allah's Hadith: The Quran).
-(The Verse you showed me about our prophet :saw: only refers to the companions. It is impossible for Muhammad :saw: to be our judge currently. Therefor we must follow only what Allah has brought down).
-(The other verse about obeying Muhammad :saw: does not mean follow Bhukari's corrupt Hadith, but it means obey him by following his sole purpose; delivering the message: The Quran)


:wasalam: and let the argument begin :(

Wa allaicumu saalam wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear brother, first of all how can you say that we as Muslims need to follow only Quran and not Sunnah of our Prophet salalhu alayha wa salam?

Following of Sunnah of our Prophet is obligatory for every Muslim and it is present in every part of our lifes, and our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salam did not said anything wrong, but only that what Allah has ordered him to do or say and teach the whole mankind to Islaam.

The ayahs which I have shared in my post are refering on all Muslims not only on Ashabhas raddiAllahu Anhum, because all rullings in Islam are for all Muslims and not only for a group of Muslims ( Ashabahs r.a.) Astagfirullah like you have said.

I aslo do not understand how can you reject the hadeeths which are Saheeh ( truthfull, correct) and call them as corrupt Hadeeth Astagfirullah, when we know that all hadeeth which are considered as Saheeh and which have been narrated by the most knowledgable Schoolars of Islam are all truthfull.

I have shared with you only few of Hadeeths which are saying that stonning to death is obligatory in our Deen Islam Alhadmulilah, but there are also a loot of more Hadeeth which are Saheeh and are confirming the same rulling in Islam Alhadmulillah. And Allah knows the best.

Dear brother, the ayah which you have quated refers on man and woman who commit adultary while not been married while punishment for those who are married is explained well in Hadeeth of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salam and as well in practise of early generations of Muslims, Salaf Al Saleeh. And I say again that Allah knows the best about everything.

May Allah guide you brother on the right path, because if you believe in Allah, you also must follow Sunnah of His Messanger( because Allah has sent him) and not consider hisway of life, teaching, and rulling which are find in Hadeeth as wrong, Astagfirullah.

Allahu Aleem!!!

I hope Inshallah this will help you to understand better brother and increase your knowledge.

Also it would be good that you read these threads Inshallah,and as well you should read Tasfir Ibn Kathir for better and clear understanding of certain ayahs.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47435

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77035
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,


I can not respond because I have to read a book before I can respond. A brother suggested a book on another thread.

Regarding stoning: The conditions to be met before a person is stoned to death are pretty impossible. Four witnesses. Four people, who are accountable to Allah, have seen you in the act. That is just as much a warning to the witness.
The witness will have to answer this on the Day of Judgment.
 

YusufN

Junior Member
Wa allaicumu saalam wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear brother, first of all how can you say that we as Muslims need to follow only Quran and not Sunnah of our Prophet salalhu alayha wa salam?

Following of Sunnah of our Prophet is obligatory for every Muslim and it is present in every part of our lifes, and our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salam did not said anything wrong, but only that what Allah has ordered him to do or say and teach the whole mankind to Islaam.

The ayahs which I have shared in my post are refering on all Muslims not only on Ashabhas raddiAllahu Anhum, because all rullings in Islam are for all Muslims and not only for a group of Muslims ( Ashabahs r.a.) Astagfirullah like you have said.

I aslo do not understand how can you reject the hadeeths which are Saheeh ( truthfull, correct) and call them as corrupt Hadeeth Astagfirullah, when we know that all hadeeth which are considered as Saheeh and which have been narrated by the most knowledgable Schoolars of Islam are all truthfull.

I have shared with you only few of Hadeeths which are saying that stonning to death is obligatory in our Deen Islam Alhadmulilah, but there are also a loot of more Hadeeth which are Saheeh and are confirming the same rulling in Islam Alhadmulillah. And Allah knows the best.

Dear brother, the ayah which you have quated refers on man and woman who commit adultary while not been married while punishment for those who are married is explained well in Hadeeth of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salam and as well in practise of early generations of Muslims, Salaf Al Saleeh. And I say again that Allah knows the best about everything.

May Allah guide you brother on the right path, because if you believe in Allah, you also must follow Sunnah of His Messanger( because Allah has sent him) and not consider hisway of life, teaching, and rulling which are find in Hadeeth as wrong, Astagfirullah.

Allahu Aleem!!!

I hope Inshallah this will help you to understand better brother and increase your knowledge.

Also it would be good that you read these threads Inshallah,and as well you should read Tasfir Ibn Kathir for better and clear understanding of certain ayahs.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47435

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77035

:wasalam:

Thank you sister for your wonderful reply. Remember I'm not trying to hurt Sunni Islam or Islam in general but we really do need to have a talk on the Hadith and reconsider our stance on them. I will give you a reply later and Insha'Allah I will read the threads!

But I have some issues I want to raise. Please sister answer my question.

-Does the Hadith abrogate the Quran?
-Did our prophet :saw: defy the Quran (Astagfirullah)?

Clearly the Quran states the Punishment. How can you say otherwise? Remember the Prophet only followed the Quran as evidence from this verse...

(Quran 46:9: Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner.")

So how did the Prophet :saw: stone people?!?!? Of course not!

Also I say many hadith are corrupt or false because many go against the teachings and verses of the Quran. I will give you some examples later as I am busy right one.
 

Just a Guy

Reinventing Myself
:salam2:

Strange but of my mind we are talking in this thread two different matters; "MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE"- matter and then Taliban/hadith- matters.

:confused: Not sure are we talking about same issues.

To Just A Guy:



This seems typical here too in my country where far-right wing of political parties makes it a big issue that "muslim population dangers original (christian) culture and values" when here less than 1% of population are muslims...

:salam2:

It's funny and sad at the same time how even the most liberal Democrat Communist atheist anti-God politician will stand up and talk about how we are a "Christian nation" when asked about Islam and Muslims. They rant all day about how much they hate Christianity and God and all religion, but mention Islam and they play the same "Christian nation" card that Republicans always play.

Well at least here in for the moment, people are more worried about illegal Latino immigration than Islam.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

My head hurts after listening to Michele Bachmann. I wish Muslims would take over the US.

Brother YusufN,

When the term moderate Muslims is used I think of the awful RAND report that came out a couple years ago. It attempted to delineate Muslims in political terms.
For the sake of Love for our faith let's refrain from the political denotations and seek Islamic knowledge. I am a student of my faith. As are you. This leads to understanding whereas the political definitions lead to division and misunderstanding amongst Believers.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o aliakum wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatuhu

brother YusufN, i really dont want to be involved in this , but when a muslim sees something that is not correct we want to step up, and here some things are being said about our beloved Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

Brother, please dont argue, these things scholars scholars have already discussed and agreed upon, and they are the one with knowledge so we should be careful in our words since we are just laymen

and the hadith can never go against the Quran, Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was the best example
Quran 33:21
Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

please i would like to advice you, unless you are a scholar don't say things about these issues, you in ur earlier post said some hadith in bukhari/muslim were not 'sahih', Akhi AuzobiAllah thats a extremely serious statement, this scholars has agreed upon again n again that these 2 books are sahih, please Akhi some of the things can make us commit kuffar without realizing it so i advice you please refrain from dwelling into matter which we might not have the knowledge of and its not im saying im more knowledgeable but i just want to advice from wat i see and im not sure any of us as scholars here, also , please learn the seerah of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) , the sealed nectar is a great book for seerah, if you already have studied seerah go over it again n again, cause akhi your knowledge of Seerah seems a lil weak.

Allah(swt) knows best, but this is a sincere advice , May Allah (swt) forgive our short coming and guide us to follow the straight path - ameen

walaikum salam wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatuhu
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

I do not think this brother is here to argue. I think if we approach it as a method of discovery we will all learn.
Right now we are trying to understand where he is in the discovery process. And, we are keeping ourselves sharp by seeking knowledge. It serves us well when we define ourselves. We need to get rid of many labels that have been placed upon us. We are not limited by labels. We are Believers. We need to discuss what the attributes of the Believers are.

Please keep posting to remind us when we begin to stray.
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
:wasalam:

Also I say many hadith are corrupt or false because many go against the teachings and verses of the Quran. I will give you some examples later as I am busy right one.

Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear brother, you should be carefull with your words and your saying that some Hadeth which are cosidered us Saheeh are going against Quran and with that against words of Allah subhan wa teala, Astagfirullah.

There is not any Hadeeth that goes against Quran Alhamdulillah. There are certain Islamic rullings which have been explained only in Sunnah of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa saalam and can not been find explained or even mentioned specificly in Quran, but that is why they are mentioned and explained in details in Sunnah of Allahs Messanger sallahu alayha wa saalam,and again we Muslims believe that Sunnah is aslo from Allah,because our Prophet done only with what Allah was pleased,and our Prophet only passed message to all mankind from Allah.

Maybe dear brother the reason of your misunderstanding of Islam is because you do not have enough knowledge for understanding only basics of Islam ( and following Sunnah is basic of Islam). I aslo advice you brother to read the authentic Siraah of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa saalam Inshallah,and that will maybe help you to have better and more correct understanding of our deen.

Inshallah you can here download one of the most authetic Sirah from author Al-Raheeq Ul Mahtoom - The Sealed Nectar.

Jazzak Allah khair dear brother Shaheer for your advices. Alhmadulillah I agree with your advices, especialy because it is the month of Ramadhan and we should try to disscuss less, but I hope Inshallah that this thread was usefull on some way.

May Allah guide us all. Ameen ya Rabby :tti_sister:

:wasalam:
 

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kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
:salam2:

Brother ,We dont have any authority to speak about ahadith without knowing background ,chain of narrations and many other things required.It is for the scholars to comment on such issues.I was watching a video related to this matter on commenting on hadith and fiqh.
I hope you will benefit from it inshaAllah.

[yt]sqTB3S3mDes&feature=player_embedded[/yt]


:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

I think everyone needs to slow down.

The brother believes that many radical groups follow an ideology that is a derivative of Islam.

He is questioning how they employ the ideology and justify it using hadeeth which seems to contradict the Quran.

This is not disputing the scholars. We have not gotten that far in the discussions.

We are always writing how we have to spread Islam to non-Muslims..now it is an opportunity for us to learn a little more about Islam. This will be an exercise for being able to answer questions that non-Muslims ask of us.

If I were considering conversion and the only response I got to a questions was the scholar said so...that would not be very convincing. We need to be able to understand how did the scholar arrive at his opinion. We need to see the reasoning process of the scholar.
 

saifkhan

abd-Allah
:salam2:

Strange but of my mind we are talking in this thread two different matters; "MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE"- matter and then Taliban/hadith- matters.

:confused: Not sure are we talking about same issues.

as-salam 'alaikum

ha ha, sister this happens, when someone with a ill intend comes here and from no where he starts and gets into a desires discussion, that he wants to.

and why i told it ill intention, because it is clear from his arguments
wa-llahu a'lam

wassalam
 

saifkhan

abd-Allah
:salam2:

I am injured and cannot type so cant reply: but u claim that hadith is not sahih, prove it. Subhan Allah!!

how can they prove it brother, they don't believe in the hadeeth?
in Quran, the salah is compared with horse racing, let them race their horse, that will lead them ashtray in the dunya and Hellfire in the Hereafter.

[yt]watch?v=0tYAyfin1Ok[/yt]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tYAyfin1Ok

listen from 13:50min onwards

but how you get injured? may Allah cure you and remove your all pains
wassalamun 'alaik
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear brother, you should be carefull with your words and your saying that some Hadeth which are cosidered us Saheeh are going against Quran and with that against words of Allah subhan wa teala, Astagfirullah.

There is not any Hadeeth that goes against Quran Alhamdulillah. There are certain Islamic rullings which have been explained only in Sunnah of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa saalam and can not been find explained or even mentioned specificly in Quran, but that is why they are mentioned and explained in details in Sunnah of Allahs Messanger sallahu alayha wa saalam,and again we Muslims believe that Sunnah is aslo from Allah,because our Prophet done only with what Allah was pleased,and our Prophet only passed message to all mankind from Allah.

Maybe dear brother the reason of your misunderstanding of Islam is because you do not have enough knowledge for understanding only basics of Islam ( and following Sunnah is basic of Islam). I aslo advice you brother to read the authentic Siraah of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa saalam Inshallah,and that will maybe help you to have better and more correct understanding of our deen.

Inshallah you can here download one of the most authetic Sirah from author Al-Raheeq Ul Mahtoom - The Sealed Nectar.

Jazzak Allah khair dear brother Shaheer for your advices. Alhmadulillah I agree with your advices, especialy because it is the month of Ramadhan and we should try to disscuss less, but I hope Inshallah that this thread was usefull on some way.

May Allah guide us all. Ameen ya Rabby :tti_sister:

:wasalam:

:salam2:

ameen to ur dua sister, and JazakAllah khair for providing the brother with the book inshAllah it will benefit him with many others :)

:wasalam:
 

YusufN

Junior Member
:salam2:

Sorry brothers and sisters.

I'm not trying to start an argument.

I'm just questioning the accuracy of the Hadith. Is this something wrong? I can give you multipule examples of Hadith's that are not shahih but are still included in Bhukari and Muslim's connection.

I'll post it sometime later. :)
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Brother YusufN,

I do not understand the comments posted.

You have questioned the authenticity of arriving at some of the Sunna. What the members are forgetting is this when a person professes faith they have an absolute right to question everything until they become Believers. Islam is a faith of reason.

I will be standing before Allah on the Day of Judgment. I better have full knowledge of what I believe. No scholar can stand in my place. Thus, I have a right to question a scholar. The Prophet, the Prophet allowed himself to be questioned. I have to know what I believe. I have to be sure of what I believe.

Questioning a person does not mean disrespecting someone. It means I need more clarification. I need more understanding. How did you arrive at this decision. What is your evidence. How do I know that your thought process is sound.

My soul is at stake here.
 

YusufN

Junior Member
where in quran, is it mentioned how to pray?

:salam2:

Thank you for the question brother!

Well yes, some aspects are. The basic format to pray is in the Quran. It states some aspects of prayer like the proper ablution (5:6), the abnormal ablution (4:43), the proper dress (7:31), standing and facing the qiblah (2:144), the times (11:114, 17:78, 24:58, 2:238, 30:17-18 and 20:130), the bowing and prostrating (2:43,125,3:42, 22:77, 48:29), using moderate voice when saying prayers (17:110), not calling anyone else besides God in prayer (72:18) and modified mode of prayer at unusual times (4:101,103).

To find out how to pray you need to look at multipule Hadiths. Can I ask you a question? Did people just not pray until the Hadith's arrived? Nope. It was passed on from generation to generation and that is how people learned.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
I can give you multipule examples of Hadith's that are not shahih but are still included in Bhukari and Muslim's connection.

I'll post it sometime later. :)

Akhi, it's interesting that you say that Bukhari and Muslim both incorporated incorrect ahadith into their compilations, when not only are these two the TOP TWO providers of the most authentic Hadith, but Imam Bukhari's compilation is so genuine it is considered the second most authentic and factual source of Islamic knowledge after the very Quran itself.

Please do enlighten us on these supposed incorrect ahadith of theirs.
 
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