Obey the ruler....even if he is devlish...

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by muslimshabs, Jan 29, 2011.

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  1. muslimshabs
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    muslimshabs Junior Member

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    :salam2:
    I have come across a hadith about the ruler ...
    "It his been narrated through a different chain of transmitters, on the authority of Hudhaifa b. al-Yaman who said: Messenger of Allah, no doubt, we had an evil time (i.e. the days of Jahiliyya or ignorance) and God brought us a good time (i.e. Islamic period) through which we are now living Will there be a bad time after this good time ? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Yes. I said : Will there be a good time after this bad time? He said: Yes. I said: Will there be a bad time after good time? He said: Yes. I said: How ? Whereupon he said : There will be leaders who will not be led by my guidance and who will not adopt my ways ? There will be among them men who will have the hearts of devils in the bodies of human beings. I said: What should I do. Messenger of Allah, if I (happen) to live in that time ? He replied : You will listen to the Amir and carry out his orders; even if your back is flogged and your wealth is snatched, you should listen and obey." [sahih muslim: 4554]


    so I am now confused whether we can go against the ruler as it brigs destruction of the people and their possessions...can somebody comment on this relating it to the present situation of the world particularly islamic countries...



    :salam2:
  2. alkathiri
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    alkathiri As-Shafaa'i(Brother)

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    As long as the ruler prays and not do open kufur , the muslims cannot openly cause destruction and bring the ruler down just like what is happening in Egypt.
    Remember , Allah will punish these oppressive rulers so why cant we be a bit patient and why do some muslims have to take things into our hand .
  3. abdul-aziz
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    abdul-aziz Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    bismillah,

    there is always an exception to the general rule.

    this hadith in abu dawud:

    Book 23, Number 3470:
    Narrated A man:

    A man from the immigrants of the Companions of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: I participated in battle three times along with the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). I heard him say: Muslims have common share in three (things). grass, water and fire.

    need to explain this to you as I heard from a knowledgeable sheik,

    The muslim or mankind should not be deprived of 3 things in this hadith. Water, (clean drinking quality, to bathe and feed there livestock), Grass, (to feed the animals, and to feed humans if edible wheat is from grass), Fire ( to provide heat, comfort and cooking; Note fire in this hadith also means what we use today, Energy; This provides to the people a quality of living).

    having said that, when the people have no access to these bounties that Allah, swt and his messenger, PBUH stated that everyone should have access to, it is acceptable to object to since it's your rights on this Earth.

    Equivocally, there is another hadith and ayah in the Quran, which states that Allah has made for man alfulk(ships) to move in the waters to bring goods and people back and forth. this too should not be restricted.

    so there are accept ions to the general rule.

    I always feel that if the people fear Allah in an area and there is a tyrant ruling them, that he probably would go away or loose his position. But sometimes you have people assisting them with money, and arsenal. So they choke the people to death with their freedoms and restrict their prosperity only to allow "the who you know people" to take positions. So they plan and plot on the people, but Allah's plan is always the one that succeeds.

    The outcome of these protests resulted much in the fact, that these oppressors actually are setting the stage for their children to take over the position. Also, children born 30 years ago, are now 30 years old, many with great education and can't find no jobs even if they are qualified. They will not stand still as all there life they only knew of one who oppresses.

    wa Allah ya'lam

    this is what I learned and understand, do run it by your sheik, in sha Allah he definitely will give much more understanding than I can.

    :wasalam:
  4. bari
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    As salamualaikum. If the leader do not care to provide the basic security of the people then what you do. This regime has played with most valuable institution of Islam, Al -Azhar then I think people are right. We need to follow our leader when he ask us to do good, and not a open faasek.
  5. arzafar
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    arzafar Junior Member

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    The situation has worsened so much that people are forced to commit suicide. That's how this current wave of protests began. A poor man's cabin was removed by the police in Tunisia. He posted a message on facebook to his mother and then torched himself in front of the kings palace. that's where it all began. Dozens are committing suicide everyday in pakistan, but here people are still asleep. 200 people requested the deboandi scholars here to issue a fatwa to make stealing food halal!

    What are you supposed to do if there is no food?
  6. Asja
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    Asja Pearl of Islaam

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    :salam2:

    I apologise but if I can ask, who are Deobandi???

    :wasalam:
  7. arzafar
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    Asja Pearl of Islaam

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  9. abu'muhammad
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    Assalaamu alaykum,

    SubhanAllaah ! what about the patience ? reliance in Allaah ? people face strange problems in their daily lives but However - is suicide the only resort left for them ? we know its not alhamdulillah. or either just think too low and give up all the capabilities to have a way out? Whether its be Tunisia or elsewhere the legimitation isn't the case. as like for so and so reasons there are so and so resultant suicides. But even though they sadly happen. perhaps there is a weakness in implementing the right teachings.
  10. Abdul25
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    Abdul25 Logical Believer

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    What an arrogant piece of comment. i think u have never seen hunger and poverty and how it affects ones life. no doubt we Muslims are in such a mess nowadays.
  11. Perseveranze
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    Perseveranze Junior Member

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    The Prophet Said; The most excellent jihad is when one speaks a true word in the presence of a tyrannical ruler.

    You sure that's not referring to the people of that time?
  12. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    Well if anybody needs clear piece of evidence of being a kuffar then it is enough to see who the rulers are taking as aulyia (protector/friend/etc). If the friends of the leaders are the kuffars and enemies of Islam then that leader has no authority over the Muslims.

    Tell me this, now if the tyrants breaches the Laws of Allah and lets the kuffar take over the kabaa, what would you do ?
  13. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    Salamu alaykum

    Please provide tafsir of this verse. U can't just take a verse litteraly to express what u believe.

    Wassalam
  14. justoneofmillion
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    :salam2:Well ,I think the whole point of these kind of approaches will be dismissed asap once we all realize that it is not the current presidents or kings who are ruling!Colonization might have stopped as to it's visibility but it surely didn't as a practical ideology,they don't come with their armies uniform anymore they put on suits .He who believes that Mubarak rules Egypt and that he doesn't receive any orders in the most literal and authoritarian sense of the word from outside, has been living on the moon for that last couple of decades.However am aware that revolt may cause a lot of damage but I don't think that a prisoner that is being genitally mutilated right at this moment as we write has time to think about that and none of us has the right to await that sort of approach from his side.These are the extended hands of the Kuffar doing this to Muslims not Muslim rulers who are but executioners.
  15. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Oppression is not necessarily physical. It is mental. Why would you obey a ruler who is wrong.
    As Muslims we obey the commands of Allah. Rulers are human and full of flaws. Many are not elected but they power by brutal force. They serve the shytan.

    We have to make up our minds as to what is oppression and how to fight it for all humanity.
  16. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    Salamu alaykum

    The rulers are to be obeyed as it is the command from Allah and His messenger no matter how how he is if he is a Muslim and as long as he does not order something to be done to the people that goes against what Allah and His messenger command.

    Also, we are missing a big picture here. Why do people always believe that the problem of the muslim countries always starts with their leaders? How is it possible that if the majoritiy of the people are riches and good muslims that Allah punishes them with a bad ruler? This is impossible.

    If the people change to good, Allah will give them a riches ruler that represents them. If people change to evil, Allah gives them bad rulers that will subjugate them and punish them.

    Even if you replace or remove a ruler, only a worse one will replace him.

    The muslims have strayed away from their religion, they have abandoned the Quran and the Sunnah. They love to follow other ways. They observe what their tradition wants from them and then they care what Quran and sunnah says.

    How many muslims pray 5 times a day? How many of the muslims hate those who implement the sunnah?

    So the problem is not the ruler but the people.

    Look from the first muslims. The companions, Allah gave them riches rulers, Abu bakr, omar, uthman etc. r.a. The people were on tahwid and sunnah of the prophet :saw: and Allah made a few companions spread Islam through the east and the west.

    Therefore, it is well known that a disease cant be cured unless you go to the roots of it. The problems of the muslims are not only the rulers, but especially the muslims themselves.

    Read this please
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/124504

    We need to changes ourselves first, our families, etc. those we can change and than Allah will change the community and the leaders. If we cant change ourselves our families to stop sinning and obey Allah and His messengers, How is it possible to change a ruler who is in power.

    Fighting the ruler just causes the muslims to kill each other. This destabilizes the country and then the kuffar sees the weakness of muslims and they attack.

    So, lets stop worrying and pointing fingers at everyone else but not ourselves.

    Barakallahu feekum

    wassalam
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