Lunar Calendar
Salamun Alaikum
Can anybody tell me which Ayat of Holy Quraan leads towards sighting of moon for the purpose of starting the month and calculation of calendar?
Regards
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
I wish to refer to surah al-Kahfi (18) verse 25, which reads: "So they stayed in their cave three hundred year and (some) add nine (more)".
The verse is technical and mathematical. At first when reading the verse I did not understand why it is mentioned 300 years and 300 + 9, which is 309 years. But when I did some research and make reference to the tafsir and book of the scholars, I have found a MIRACLE of al-Quran.
Actually, Allah has mentioned here is that, the Ashabul Kahfi (people of cave) have slept for 300 years (in solar year) and 309 years (in lunar year).
It goes like this:
300 years (solar) 309 years (lunar)
365 days = 1 year 354 days = 1 year
1 solar year (equals to) 1.03 lunar year (that is 365 / 354 = 1.03)
10 solar year = 10.3 lunar year
100 solar year = 103 lunar year
200 solar year = 206 lunar year
300 solar year = 309 lunar year
It is very technical and when I ask my student to do the calculation, they were amazed by miracle of al-Quran.
I am sorry that I cannot provide the definite answer to your question, but the verse does indirectly deal with the calculation of solar and lunar year.
Thank you Allah knows best.
Salamun Alaikum,
Dear Brother The verse you have quoted is quite irrelevant as neither any rule has been defined therein for calculations of count of years nor there is any indication leads to sighting of moon for any purpose. It is just your hypothecation as Allah means this and that.
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
"The month of Ramadân in which was revealed the Qur'ân, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadân i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Saum (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Saum (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allâh intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allâh [i.e. to say Takbîr (Allâhu-Akbar; Allâh is the Most Great) on seeing the crescent of the months of Ramadân and Shawwâl] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him."
Surah al-Baqqara (The cow) N°2 verse n°185
"He is the One who gave the sun its brightness and the moon its light, established her phases that you may learn to compute the years and other such counts(days, weeks, months).Allah created them only to manifest the truth. He has spelled out His revelations for people who want to understand. Surah Yunus 10:5
Out of this second Aya we learn the miracle of the Quran.
In those times of the Prophet (s.a.w) there were no scientist and no one knew that the moon was taking its light from the sun but this is what Allah(s.w) told us before even scientist discovered about it.
Jazakallahu kheir!
Dear Brother Salamun Alaikum
I would request you to reconsider your reply. The First reference you have given has no reference leading to sighting of moon as the ayat and its translation in the words of Yousuf Ali is as under:
شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ فَمَن شَهِدَ مِنكُمُ الشَّهْرَ فَلْيَصُمْهُ وَمَن كَانَ مَرِيضًا أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّةٌ مِّنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ يُرِيدُ اللّهُ بِكُمُ الْيُسْرَ وَلاَ يُرِيدُ بِكُمُ الْعُسْرَ وَلِتُكْمِلُواْ الْعِدَّةَ وَلِتُكَبِّرُواْ اللّهَ عَلَى مَا هَدَاكُمْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ {185}
"[Yusufali 2:185] Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful." and it is more realistic (if not the exact) translation.
Secondly you have referred the ayat of Sura Younus which says as per Yousuf Ali as "10:5] It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand." Can you just tell me how can your determine the No of years and count of time leaving apart the Sun?
And in the same context I refer you Ayat No.12 of Sura Al-Asraa~ Which says "We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail." In this ayat Allah has used the words 'Lail' and 'Nahar' instead of Qamar and Shams. and you can easily understand that it is the only "Sun" which causes the transitional phenomena of day and night, Moon has nothing to do in changing day into night and vice versa. Therefore, it is obvious that Moon has nothing to do with calendar system.
Itemase Dua
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.
Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moon sighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days? In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:
Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)
Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:
We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)
In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasizing their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moon sighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.
This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.
Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.
The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.
The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.
In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moon sighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.
May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir
Salamun Alaikum
I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also have read a lot of other narrations in this regards that have been attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable.
Further I would like to ask you mention a reason for which we need for having a calendar system and the capability of the system we are following to meet that requirement. What I understand is that there are three basic requirements a calendar system should and must provide. We should be able: 1. To maintain and compile our history chronologically. 2. To observer the sanctity of the days of remembrance, and 3. To schedule our future programs and events. The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.
Cyrus
Mabsoot
Administrator
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusarif
Salamun Alaikum
I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also have read a lot of other narrations in this regards that have been attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable. .
Wa alaykum Salam, brother, not everything is mentioned in the Quran, and hence the Hadith are what we rely on as both an explanation of the Quran and also for further guidance.
The validity of hadith is for the Hadith Scholars to make verdict on, not for us. If a hadith is sound, it is obligatory to follow it. So, its not up for debate.. There should be no doubt in the words of the Prophet Muhammad . The way hadith are transmitted is a scientific and precise method, walhamdulilah.
What Abu Amirah said in his post is correct, alhamdulilah. That the sighting of the moon is what should be relied on, not some calculations.
Quote:
The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.
The Lunar calendar doesn’t make people confused. If something makes someone confused it is because they have little understanding over it.
Nor is there any doubt over the dates.
Someone might be confused with how to operate a computer or navigate a website.
All the Islamic books use lunar calendar and it is still used today in many Islamic countries such as in Saudi Arabia, and there is no problem using it alongside the other calendars.
The Christian calendar existed at the time of the Sahaabah, but they did not use it, rather they ignored it and used the Hijri calendar.
Allah chose the Lunar based Hijri Calendar for us. Its part of Islam, we are pleased with that for Allah knows better than us and any other human. Our knowledge isn’t comparable, so we leave it at that.
Its important we stick to the explanation of the verses from Islamic Scholars and not try to explain verses using our limited knowledge on the subject..
My advice is to ask a scholar, inshaAllah for further direction.
Wasalam.
Friday, 11, August, 2006 (17, Rajab, 1427)
Dear Mabsoot, Salamun Alaikum.
I bag to differ from your point of view. As you yourself mentioned that before Hijrat Arabs were following in your words ‘Christian calendar’ which is based on solar system. The change of calendar system is a foremost & significant event and it would not be happened overnight. A lot of homework including training of the users of the system involves in it. Extensive efforts are needed to communicate the principals and delicacies to make people understand the system and its minuteness. I am surprised that I couldn't find any detail regarding this important segment of history in the history of Islam, and such a change should be expressly mentioned in Holy Quran. On the other hand we find numerous verses which clearly indicate that Almighty Allah has ordered us to follow the solar system. For instance Ref: Soora Toba, Ayat "
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ فَلاَ تَظْلِمُواْ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَقَاتِلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَآفَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَآفَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ {36}
" translation of which says [9:36] “The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him from the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight (ever lasting) usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.”
The above Ayat indicates that whatever system Allah S.W.T. has ordered us to follow is the same which is started since the day of creation of Heavens & Earth. And He further confirm it that it is the ever lasting law to follow.
Similarly, Ayat No.12 of Sura Al-Asraa~ Which says "We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail."
So in the presence of these verses in Holy Quran, how can we say that Allah has ordered us to follow the lunar system without any specific reference.
May Allah S.W.T. guide us toward the right path. Ameen.
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
A/A,
I understand your point but Allah (s.w) Made both the sun and the moon so that it can help us in our daily lives. We use the sun to calculate the time for prayers and we use the moon to calculate the date for every month.
In surat yasin 36:39 "As for the moon, We have design phases for it till it again becomes like an old dry palm branch. (MALIK)
This shows that Allah (s.w) made it easy for us to determine the accuracy of calculating the date by just watching the moon phase. How is it possible for us to know which date it is today by watching the sun?
When its full moon we already know that today its 13th in that month and till on 15th then the phase change again.
So Quran cannot just be understood without the sunnah. Allah says "WAAKIMU SWALAT" so is there any aya in the Quran which shows us how to pray? But our Prophet sunnah supported this and then we came to understand how to pray. So brother the hadith of the Rasool which are sahih clearly says about how to start and calculate the dates and if you don’t agree on them then its better you ask the scholars.
Jazakallahu kheir
Salamun Alaikum;
I fear that you still didn’t understand my point of view. I simply asked one question that which Ayat of Holly Quran leads to sighting of moon for calculation of month & year? When Allah s.w.t. expressly indicated in Sora Tawba referred above that the calendar system is like this and this and it is an ever-lasting law (Zalika Deenil Qayyem), then how one can say that Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. has introduced an entirely different system. Can you give any example where Rasoolallah has differed from Quraanic verses?
Further, the Ayat your referred from Sura Yasin although has no relevance with the subject matter even then you may note that Allah s.w.t has referred the position of crescent which occurs just before dawn on 27 or 28th instead of referring crescent which happens at sunset on 1st of our adopted month eliminating any doubt in this regard.
Iltemase Dua
Cyrus
Asalamualikum,
When all of you are finished explaining this, can someone summarize the results of this interesting discussion? (in a shorter version?)
It has been interesting to read, and now I am completely lost....
Kindness is my intent and also knowledge I seek....
Sallam,
Kristina
Salamun Alaikum,
Sister this discussion is in its initial stages and it is too early to summarize the same. I advise you to print each message in sequence and read them again and again. It is a very painfull truth that We, the muslims, have changed a lot of original Islam. and what remains today is not the true Islam.
Regards, Cyrus
Mrmuslim
salaam Alikom
So are you trying to say that what the prophet peace be upon him did was wrong by selecting the lunar system and arabic clander?
or that the prophet peace be up on him was wrong when he said
صوموا لرؤيته وأفطروا لرؤيته
(Start fasting with wtiness of moon and end your fast (celebrate Eid) with witnessing the moon)
Only Lunar clander gose by moon sighting...so the Hadith should be enough answer ..
to clearfy more you answered your Question by your self ....
Soora Toba, Ayat "
{36}…. إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ
" “Lo! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth.” (Surah 9 Verse 36) "
Then the Verses continue of them four are sacred:
The Scared 4 month are only in arabic lunar clander (Muharram,Rajab, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah ) Not in the solar clander ....they were known to Arabs
..so inshallah hopfully this answer your question.
Another reasong for using the lunar system
The Islamic calendar being lunar instead of solar has great significance concerning the month of Ramadan. If the calendar used was solar, Muslims living in one hemisphere would have the advantage of fasting in cooler, shorter days, while those living in the other hemisphere would have to fast in the hot and longer days throughout their lifetime. With the lunar calendar, however, the seasons rotate every 32 or 33 years so that the difficulty or ease of fasting is equally shared by all Muslims around the world. This calendar also leads to the rotation of Hajj among the different seasons.
Some History
Before the advent of Islam, Arabs used the lunar calendar. This calendar - 11 days shorter than the Gregorian calendar- did not follow the seasons. The yearly Hajj or Pilgrimage at that time of idol worshiping was more like a big festival, and since the lunar calendar did not follow the seasons, the Hajj took place during a different month each year. This meant that during certain years, the Hajj came during the seasons when the crops were not yet ready for harvest and therefore not available for sale, thus interfering with the feast preparations for this event.
The Arabs therefore devised a method to overcome this predicament by adding a month to the calendar on certain years. This method was called kabisa. The time when the Hajj was to occur thus became variable and the announcement of its date was subsequently made during the preceding Hajj. This announcement was first the responsibility of a man named Qalammas. Qalammas was from the Bani Kinana tribe, the tribe from which Hashim 464–546 A.D. was a descendant and who later became the father of the Quraish tribe (the tribe of the Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him). Qalammas was also responsible for announcing which month was to be followed by the extra thirteenth month. All those who took up this occupation of announcing the Hajj time were thence called Qalammasa.
The Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) announced the discontinuation of the practice of kabisa and the abandonment of the Qalammasi calendar. The lunar calendar was used as ordained by Allah and the time for Hajj was fixed on the same day of each lunar year.
The following Quranic verse entails the use of the lunar calendar as the calendar to be followed by Muslims:
“He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning.” (Surah10 Verse 5)
In this next verse Allah directs the Muslims to fix the time of Hajj:
“They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to make fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage.” (Surah 2 Verse 189)
Setting the Beginning of an Era
The Lunar calendar was therefore used during the time of the Prophet; no fixed year, however, was set to be used as the beginning of the Islamic era. It is reported by Ibn Abbas that the people of Medina came to use a month or two after the arrival of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) as the beginning of their calendar, but this was discontinued after his death. There was no era used during the caliphate of Abu Bakr. It was not until the fourth year of the second Caliph, Omar ibn AlKhatab, that the Hijra calendar was to be used. Ahmad ibn Hanbal and al-Bukhari report through Maymun ibn Mihran that "an I.O.U. payable in Sha'ban was presented to Omar. Thereupon, Omar asked which Sha'ban, last Sha'ban, or this one or the coming one? Give the people something that they can understand."
AlHurmuzan, the former king of alAhwaz (before his capture by the Muslims during the conquest of Persia) who later converted to Islam, suggested the use of the Persian calendar. This calendar, however, did not gain acceptance by the Muslims, as it had no fixed epoch since the Persian era was started anew after the ascension of each new king to the throne. After listening to the different suggestions, the Muslims agreed upon the use of the Hijra (immigration) of the prophet from Mecca to Medina as the start of the Islamic era. The first of Muharram of the year 1 A.H coincided with July 16, 622 by the Gregorian calendar.
The Hijra was used instead of the birth date of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or the date of the revelation of the Holy Quran since the exact date of these two events was not known for certain. The date of the prophet’s death, although known, was too sad an event to use. It was thus decided that the Hijra was to be used to mark the beginning of the Islamic calendar.
Before the advent of the Hijra calendar, years were named according to the major event that occurred during that particular year and this was used as their dating system. For example, the first year of the Prophet's stay in Medina was called 'The year of the permission to travel'. The second year was 'The year of the command to fight'. The third year was 'The year of the test', and so on. This system was abandoned after the Prophet’s death. (Said, Hakim, 1984)
The twelve lunar months are Muharram, Safar, Rabi I, Rabi II, Jumada I, Jumada II, Rajab, Sha’ban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah. The number of days in each month alternates between 29 and 30 days. The lunar year therefore consists of 354 days. The Islamic calendar divides time into cycles of 30 years. In each cycle there are 19 years consisting of 354 days and 11 years consisting of an extra day making them 355 days long.
My Question ... Why we have to Question something prophet peace be up on him already did for Muslims and he used lunar system arabic clander? are we trying to prove he is right or we trying to say he was not right ????? we know that Allah guided him to the right path.. so who are we to come and question his action peace be up on him???
wa salaam alikom
Reference : Islamonline.net
Salamun Alaikum,
Salamun Alaikum
Can anybody tell me which Ayat of Holy Quraan leads towards sighting of moon for the purpose of starting the month and calculation of calendar?
Regards
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
I wish to refer to surah al-Kahfi (18) verse 25, which reads: "So they stayed in their cave three hundred year and (some) add nine (more)".
The verse is technical and mathematical. At first when reading the verse I did not understand why it is mentioned 300 years and 300 + 9, which is 309 years. But when I did some research and make reference to the tafsir and book of the scholars, I have found a MIRACLE of al-Quran.
Actually, Allah has mentioned here is that, the Ashabul Kahfi (people of cave) have slept for 300 years (in solar year) and 309 years (in lunar year).
It goes like this:
300 years (solar) 309 years (lunar)
365 days = 1 year 354 days = 1 year
1 solar year (equals to) 1.03 lunar year (that is 365 / 354 = 1.03)
10 solar year = 10.3 lunar year
100 solar year = 103 lunar year
200 solar year = 206 lunar year
300 solar year = 309 lunar year
It is very technical and when I ask my student to do the calculation, they were amazed by miracle of al-Quran.
I am sorry that I cannot provide the definite answer to your question, but the verse does indirectly deal with the calculation of solar and lunar year.
Thank you Allah knows best.
Salamun Alaikum,
Dear Brother The verse you have quoted is quite irrelevant as neither any rule has been defined therein for calculations of count of years nor there is any indication leads to sighting of moon for any purpose. It is just your hypothecation as Allah means this and that.
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
"The month of Ramadân in which was revealed the Qur'ân, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadân i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Saum (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Saum (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allâh intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allâh [i.e. to say Takbîr (Allâhu-Akbar; Allâh is the Most Great) on seeing the crescent of the months of Ramadân and Shawwâl] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him."
Surah al-Baqqara (The cow) N°2 verse n°185
"He is the One who gave the sun its brightness and the moon its light, established her phases that you may learn to compute the years and other such counts(days, weeks, months).Allah created them only to manifest the truth. He has spelled out His revelations for people who want to understand. Surah Yunus 10:5
Out of this second Aya we learn the miracle of the Quran.
In those times of the Prophet (s.a.w) there were no scientist and no one knew that the moon was taking its light from the sun but this is what Allah(s.w) told us before even scientist discovered about it.
Jazakallahu kheir!
Dear Brother Salamun Alaikum
I would request you to reconsider your reply. The First reference you have given has no reference leading to sighting of moon as the ayat and its translation in the words of Yousuf Ali is as under:
شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ فَمَن شَهِدَ مِنكُمُ الشَّهْرَ فَلْيَصُمْهُ وَمَن كَانَ مَرِيضًا أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّةٌ مِّنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ يُرِيدُ اللّهُ بِكُمُ الْيُسْرَ وَلاَ يُرِيدُ بِكُمُ الْعُسْرَ وَلِتُكْمِلُواْ الْعِدَّةَ وَلِتُكَبِّرُواْ اللّهَ عَلَى مَا هَدَاكُمْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ {185}
"[Yusufali 2:185] Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful." and it is more realistic (if not the exact) translation.
Secondly you have referred the ayat of Sura Younus which says as per Yousuf Ali as "10:5] It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand." Can you just tell me how can your determine the No of years and count of time leaving apart the Sun?
And in the same context I refer you Ayat No.12 of Sura Al-Asraa~ Which says "We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail." In this ayat Allah has used the words 'Lail' and 'Nahar' instead of Qamar and Shams. and you can easily understand that it is the only "Sun" which causes the transitional phenomena of day and night, Moon has nothing to do in changing day into night and vice versa. Therefore, it is obvious that Moon has nothing to do with calendar system.
Itemase Dua
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
"Faman shahida...." shahid in Arabic means witness so it says "when one witness that month then he should fast"
Below are some hadith of our beloved Prophet to show us how one witness the month or ramadhan and how we start and end it.
Determining the beginning and the end of a new month through astronomical calculations is unfounded in the Qur’an and Sunnah. The standard in the shari’ah for discerning the beginning of a new month and the end of the last month is based on actual moon sighting. Which means that if the moon is not sighted, the month will be completed with thirty days? In the ahadith, the Blessed Prophet incessantly put emphasis on this:
Do not fast unless you see the moon, do not break your fast until you see the moon. (Bukhari H.1773, Muslim H.1795, Nasai H.2093, Abu-Dawood H.1976, Muatta Malik H.557)
Meaning that if you do not see the moon, then do not begin the month of Ramadan and likewise, do not celebrate the Eid until you sight the moon. In another hadith the Blessed Prophet clearly prohibited the use of calculations. He said:
We are an illiterate nation. We do not write or calculate months. He said it is like this, this, or this. So saying, the Blessed Prophet lifted his hands three times with all fingers spread the first two times and the thumb hidden the third time to indicate 29 days. Then he said the month is like this, this, and this and again lifted his hands three times, this time all fingers spread out each time to indicate 30 days. (Muslim H.1806, Bukhari H.1780, Nasai H.2111, Abu-Dawood H.1975)
In this hadith, The Blessed Prophet certainly doesn’t mean to say that this is an ummah of illiterates, but rather he is emphasizing their simplicity of not being educated in the subject which we are discussing. The purpose behind this is to declare that we do not know calculations nor are we going to use this method to figure our months. This is a universal religion. Anyone from anywhere can follow it wherever he may be. If the system was based on calculations, the decision of millions of people would be in the hands of the few who would decide when the month begins and when it ends. Instead, Islam based the lunar calendar on moon sighting so that even bedouins, who are out of touch with most modern sciences and technologies, could sight the moon and know when the month begins and ends.
This may raise a question in the mind of many that if Islam is all about simplicity, then why do we use time tables for salah and depend on the calculations which produce those time tables. This is an important question because the answer to it will prove how Islam is indeed a universal religion and will also reveal the most fascinating miracle of the Blessed Prophet . To understand this we need to remember that in Islam, the beginning and end of the month rely on the sighting of the moon while the salah timings are based on the movement of the sun.
Calculations to this day have not been able to inform us of when the moon can first be sighted; the only thing known to us from the calculations is when the moon is born. And we as humans cannot see the moon immediately after its birth. How many hours does it take before the moon can be seen? Sometimes it can be seen after 14 hours and at other times it cannot be sighted even after 20 hours. This is because there are many different factors which contribute to the sighting of the moon.
The sun is different. During the day, the sun is very easily seen every day except for when the skies are overcast. This is one difference between the sun and moon. Another big difference between the two is that the sun runs on a set path that is the same each and every year. For example, if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the first of January, 2005 he will find that is no different from the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date, one year before or after. And if one measures the time of the rising and setting of the sun on the same date ten years later it will still be no different from the time the sun rose and set on January 1, 2005. So if one person notes the movement of the sun one whole year and makes a time table out of his observations he could continue using that time table for the rest of his life. And in reality this is exactly how the time table for the salawat was made. Once this time table was produced, there was no need to repeat the process of observing of the sun.
The moon in this aspect is a very different case. If Ramadan was 30 days this year, it won’t necessarily be 30 days the next year or the year after that. And this highlights the miracle of the Blessed Prophet that he prohibited the use of calculations and formulas to determine the birth of the moon (nor do we write nor do we make calculations), but didn’t include under this order the movement of the sun. How was the Blessed Prophet to know 1,400 years ago of the consistency that was in the movement of the sun and that, despite the latest breakthroughs in astronomical data and calculations, no one would ever be able to read the exact time of the sighting of the new moon.
In summary, it is not possible nor has the Shari’ah allowed the Islamic lunar calendar to be based on calculations. This has never been permitted and has been the consensus of the Ummah. Though, this much can be said that Islam does allow using astronomical calculations to aid in moon sighting. For example, it can be helpful in providing us the approximate timings to when the moon will be most likely visible, or the age of the moon at the time of the setting of the sun, or at what time the moon will set.
May Allah guide us the right way!
Jazakallahu kheir
Salamun Alaikum
I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also have read a lot of other narrations in this regards that have been attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable.
Further I would like to ask you mention a reason for which we need for having a calendar system and the capability of the system we are following to meet that requirement. What I understand is that there are three basic requirements a calendar system should and must provide. We should be able: 1. To maintain and compile our history chronologically. 2. To observer the sanctity of the days of remembrance, and 3. To schedule our future programs and events. The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.
Cyrus
Mabsoot
Administrator
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusarif
Salamun Alaikum
I have simply asked the references specifically from Holy Quran. I have gone through the quotations you have mentioned and I also have read a lot of other narrations in this regards that have been attributed to Rasoolallah s.a.w.a w. It does not mean that I do not believe in ahadees of Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. but reliability of the source of the ahadees can be debatable. .
Wa alaykum Salam, brother, not everything is mentioned in the Quran, and hence the Hadith are what we rely on as both an explanation of the Quran and also for further guidance.
The validity of hadith is for the Hadith Scholars to make verdict on, not for us. If a hadith is sound, it is obligatory to follow it. So, its not up for debate.. There should be no doubt in the words of the Prophet Muhammad . The way hadith are transmitted is a scientific and precise method, walhamdulilah.
What Abu Amirah said in his post is correct, alhamdulilah. That the sighting of the moon is what should be relied on, not some calculations.
Quote:
The lunar system appears completely unsuccessful to meet any of the above requirements. Neither we can say for sure about our past events nor we can certainly predict our tomorrow. On so many times we even remain doubtful about our current date, and it has been proven on various occasions that we have mistaken in determining the current date. So what purpose lunar calendar is serving except making people confused?.
The Lunar calendar doesn’t make people confused. If something makes someone confused it is because they have little understanding over it.
Nor is there any doubt over the dates.
Someone might be confused with how to operate a computer or navigate a website.
All the Islamic books use lunar calendar and it is still used today in many Islamic countries such as in Saudi Arabia, and there is no problem using it alongside the other calendars.
The Christian calendar existed at the time of the Sahaabah, but they did not use it, rather they ignored it and used the Hijri calendar.
Allah chose the Lunar based Hijri Calendar for us. Its part of Islam, we are pleased with that for Allah knows better than us and any other human. Our knowledge isn’t comparable, so we leave it at that.
Its important we stick to the explanation of the verses from Islamic Scholars and not try to explain verses using our limited knowledge on the subject..
My advice is to ask a scholar, inshaAllah for further direction.
Wasalam.
Friday, 11, August, 2006 (17, Rajab, 1427)
Dear Mabsoot, Salamun Alaikum.
I bag to differ from your point of view. As you yourself mentioned that before Hijrat Arabs were following in your words ‘Christian calendar’ which is based on solar system. The change of calendar system is a foremost & significant event and it would not be happened overnight. A lot of homework including training of the users of the system involves in it. Extensive efforts are needed to communicate the principals and delicacies to make people understand the system and its minuteness. I am surprised that I couldn't find any detail regarding this important segment of history in the history of Islam, and such a change should be expressly mentioned in Holy Quran. On the other hand we find numerous verses which clearly indicate that Almighty Allah has ordered us to follow the solar system. For instance Ref: Soora Toba, Ayat "
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ فَلاَ تَظْلِمُواْ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَقَاتِلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَآفَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَآفَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ {36}
" translation of which says [9:36] “The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him from the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight (ever lasting) usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.”
The above Ayat indicates that whatever system Allah S.W.T. has ordered us to follow is the same which is started since the day of creation of Heavens & Earth. And He further confirm it that it is the ever lasting law to follow.
Similarly, Ayat No.12 of Sura Al-Asraa~ Which says "We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: all things have We explained in detail."
So in the presence of these verses in Holy Quran, how can we say that Allah has ordered us to follow the lunar system without any specific reference.
May Allah S.W.T. guide us toward the right path. Ameen.
Cyrus
Abu.Amirah
A/A,
I understand your point but Allah (s.w) Made both the sun and the moon so that it can help us in our daily lives. We use the sun to calculate the time for prayers and we use the moon to calculate the date for every month.
In surat yasin 36:39 "As for the moon, We have design phases for it till it again becomes like an old dry palm branch. (MALIK)
This shows that Allah (s.w) made it easy for us to determine the accuracy of calculating the date by just watching the moon phase. How is it possible for us to know which date it is today by watching the sun?
When its full moon we already know that today its 13th in that month and till on 15th then the phase change again.
So Quran cannot just be understood without the sunnah. Allah says "WAAKIMU SWALAT" so is there any aya in the Quran which shows us how to pray? But our Prophet sunnah supported this and then we came to understand how to pray. So brother the hadith of the Rasool which are sahih clearly says about how to start and calculate the dates and if you don’t agree on them then its better you ask the scholars.
Jazakallahu kheir
Salamun Alaikum;
I fear that you still didn’t understand my point of view. I simply asked one question that which Ayat of Holly Quran leads to sighting of moon for calculation of month & year? When Allah s.w.t. expressly indicated in Sora Tawba referred above that the calendar system is like this and this and it is an ever-lasting law (Zalika Deenil Qayyem), then how one can say that Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w. has introduced an entirely different system. Can you give any example where Rasoolallah has differed from Quraanic verses?
Further, the Ayat your referred from Sura Yasin although has no relevance with the subject matter even then you may note that Allah s.w.t has referred the position of crescent which occurs just before dawn on 27 or 28th instead of referring crescent which happens at sunset on 1st of our adopted month eliminating any doubt in this regard.
Iltemase Dua
Cyrus
Asalamualikum,
When all of you are finished explaining this, can someone summarize the results of this interesting discussion? (in a shorter version?)
It has been interesting to read, and now I am completely lost....
Kindness is my intent and also knowledge I seek....
Sallam,
Kristina
Salamun Alaikum,
Sister this discussion is in its initial stages and it is too early to summarize the same. I advise you to print each message in sequence and read them again and again. It is a very painfull truth that We, the muslims, have changed a lot of original Islam. and what remains today is not the true Islam.
Regards, Cyrus
Mrmuslim
salaam Alikom
So are you trying to say that what the prophet peace be upon him did was wrong by selecting the lunar system and arabic clander?
or that the prophet peace be up on him was wrong when he said
صوموا لرؤيته وأفطروا لرؤيته
(Start fasting with wtiness of moon and end your fast (celebrate Eid) with witnessing the moon)
Only Lunar clander gose by moon sighting...so the Hadith should be enough answer ..
to clearfy more you answered your Question by your self ....
Soora Toba, Ayat "
{36}…. إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ
" “Lo! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth.” (Surah 9 Verse 36) "
Then the Verses continue of them four are sacred:
The Scared 4 month are only in arabic lunar clander (Muharram,Rajab, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah ) Not in the solar clander ....they were known to Arabs
..so inshallah hopfully this answer your question.
Another reasong for using the lunar system
The Islamic calendar being lunar instead of solar has great significance concerning the month of Ramadan. If the calendar used was solar, Muslims living in one hemisphere would have the advantage of fasting in cooler, shorter days, while those living in the other hemisphere would have to fast in the hot and longer days throughout their lifetime. With the lunar calendar, however, the seasons rotate every 32 or 33 years so that the difficulty or ease of fasting is equally shared by all Muslims around the world. This calendar also leads to the rotation of Hajj among the different seasons.
Some History
Before the advent of Islam, Arabs used the lunar calendar. This calendar - 11 days shorter than the Gregorian calendar- did not follow the seasons. The yearly Hajj or Pilgrimage at that time of idol worshiping was more like a big festival, and since the lunar calendar did not follow the seasons, the Hajj took place during a different month each year. This meant that during certain years, the Hajj came during the seasons when the crops were not yet ready for harvest and therefore not available for sale, thus interfering with the feast preparations for this event.
The Arabs therefore devised a method to overcome this predicament by adding a month to the calendar on certain years. This method was called kabisa. The time when the Hajj was to occur thus became variable and the announcement of its date was subsequently made during the preceding Hajj. This announcement was first the responsibility of a man named Qalammas. Qalammas was from the Bani Kinana tribe, the tribe from which Hashim 464–546 A.D. was a descendant and who later became the father of the Quraish tribe (the tribe of the Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him). Qalammas was also responsible for announcing which month was to be followed by the extra thirteenth month. All those who took up this occupation of announcing the Hajj time were thence called Qalammasa.
The Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) announced the discontinuation of the practice of kabisa and the abandonment of the Qalammasi calendar. The lunar calendar was used as ordained by Allah and the time for Hajj was fixed on the same day of each lunar year.
The following Quranic verse entails the use of the lunar calendar as the calendar to be followed by Muslims:
“He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning.” (Surah10 Verse 5)
In this next verse Allah directs the Muslims to fix the time of Hajj:
“They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to make fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage.” (Surah 2 Verse 189)
Setting the Beginning of an Era
The Lunar calendar was therefore used during the time of the Prophet; no fixed year, however, was set to be used as the beginning of the Islamic era. It is reported by Ibn Abbas that the people of Medina came to use a month or two after the arrival of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) as the beginning of their calendar, but this was discontinued after his death. There was no era used during the caliphate of Abu Bakr. It was not until the fourth year of the second Caliph, Omar ibn AlKhatab, that the Hijra calendar was to be used. Ahmad ibn Hanbal and al-Bukhari report through Maymun ibn Mihran that "an I.O.U. payable in Sha'ban was presented to Omar. Thereupon, Omar asked which Sha'ban, last Sha'ban, or this one or the coming one? Give the people something that they can understand."
AlHurmuzan, the former king of alAhwaz (before his capture by the Muslims during the conquest of Persia) who later converted to Islam, suggested the use of the Persian calendar. This calendar, however, did not gain acceptance by the Muslims, as it had no fixed epoch since the Persian era was started anew after the ascension of each new king to the throne. After listening to the different suggestions, the Muslims agreed upon the use of the Hijra (immigration) of the prophet from Mecca to Medina as the start of the Islamic era. The first of Muharram of the year 1 A.H coincided with July 16, 622 by the Gregorian calendar.
The Hijra was used instead of the birth date of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or the date of the revelation of the Holy Quran since the exact date of these two events was not known for certain. The date of the prophet’s death, although known, was too sad an event to use. It was thus decided that the Hijra was to be used to mark the beginning of the Islamic calendar.
Before the advent of the Hijra calendar, years were named according to the major event that occurred during that particular year and this was used as their dating system. For example, the first year of the Prophet's stay in Medina was called 'The year of the permission to travel'. The second year was 'The year of the command to fight'. The third year was 'The year of the test', and so on. This system was abandoned after the Prophet’s death. (Said, Hakim, 1984)
The twelve lunar months are Muharram, Safar, Rabi I, Rabi II, Jumada I, Jumada II, Rajab, Sha’ban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Thulka’dah, and Thulhijjah. The number of days in each month alternates between 29 and 30 days. The lunar year therefore consists of 354 days. The Islamic calendar divides time into cycles of 30 years. In each cycle there are 19 years consisting of 354 days and 11 years consisting of an extra day making them 355 days long.
My Question ... Why we have to Question something prophet peace be up on him already did for Muslims and he used lunar system arabic clander? are we trying to prove he is right or we trying to say he was not right ????? we know that Allah guided him to the right path.. so who are we to come and question his action peace be up on him???
wa salaam alikom
Reference : Islamonline.net
Salamun Alaikum,
Mrmuslim said: