Proofs From The Scholars For The Niqaab

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
She actually has a point.

That was a question I needed the answer to as well.

I've had Muslim women who don't cover their hair come up to me and ask me why I wear hijab when it is not explicitly mentioned in the Quran. They use the exact same excuse that the ayah in Surah Nisa claims that women cover their "bosoms". Naturally, these are people who believe hadith are independent of the Quran but just be aware that these are some arguments that people use against hijab. This also goes hand in hand with the argument that the scholars are not above the Quran and that their words should not be taken as set in stone.

These women actually really got to me with their constant doubts and their claim that covering the head wasn't in the Quran actually upset me because they made me feel as if I donning a cultural practice instead of a religious one.

So I hope someone does answer this question because I'm getting sick and tired of self-hating Muslim women accusing me of carrying out a cultural practice because hijab isn't explicitly mentioned in the Quran and they use it to justify simply dressing modestly and not having to cover one's head.

Assalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I remember a post by Sister Samiha some time ago that covers pretty much of you [and Sister Sakeena] concerns/question. So I'll just quote it here, for eveyrone's benefits. Jazaaha Allaahu khaayraa.

Special Focus on Hijab

One of the favorite tricks of the hadith rejectors is to announce that it is not obligatory for the Muslim woman to cover her hair. Surah an-Nur ayah 31 says in part, "Tell the faithful women...to extend their KHUMUR to cover their bosoms". The word "khumur" is the plural of "khimar". According to the hadith rejectors the meaning of "khimar" is simply "a covering" because the root KHAMARA means "to cover". Thus, they say, the Quran here only tells the women to extend a covering over their bosoms. They say that the Quran does not mention the covering of the head.

Is this true? Because of the importance of hijab, it is worth exploring this issue in depth.

The hijab of the Muslim woman has been set out in two verses of the Quran, Surah an-Nur ayah 31 and Surah al-Ahzab ayah 59. The list of commands contained in these verses is as follows:

1) Lower the gaze (24:31)

2) Guard the private parts (24:31)

3) Not display their beauty "except what is apparent of it" (24:31)

4) Extend the khimar to cover the bosom (24:31)

5) Not display their beauty beyond "what is apparent of it" except to the people listed in 24:31

6) Not stamp their feet so as to reveal hidden beauty (24:31)

7) Draw the jilbab close around them when abroad (33:59)

What does "except what is apparent" mean? This is one of the passages in the Quran that is not clear in meaning (see Surah Ali Imran ayah 7). This is one of the passages in the Quran that the Prophet () needs to explain. And Surah an-Nahl ayah 44 (see above) tells us that the Prophet will explain the Quran. The Prophet's explanation of "what is apparent" is the face and the hands. Therefore, following what the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has explained of the Quran, we can re-write the list this way:

1) Lower the gaze (24:31)

2) Guard the private parts (24:31)

3) Not display their beauty except their faces and hands (24:31)

4) Extend the khimar to cover the bosom (24:31)

5) Not display their beauty beyond the face and hands except to the people listed in 24:31

6) Not stamp their feet so as to reveal hidden beauty (24:31)

7) Draw the jilbab close around them when abroad (33:59)

Now, it is very clear. If a woman must conceal all of her beauty except her face and hands, she must necessarily be concealing her hair. Even if "not to display their beauty except what is apparent" were the only text in the verse, yet as the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has explained the meaning of the Quran, a woman would still have to cover everything but her face and hands.

We can also look at the meaning of the word "khimar". The word "khimar" comes from the root KHAMARA meaning "to cover". However, the particular form "khimar" may have a more specific meaning. Let's look at what it is:

1) In the Arabic of the Prophet (), the word "khimar" referred to a HEADCOVERING. This can be seen in the hadiths in which the Prophet (sAas) wiped his wet hands over his khimar and his socks, from which the scholars have derived that it is halal to wipe wet hands over the HEADCOVERING and the socks.

2) The authorities on classical Arabic have defined the word "khimar" as a HEADCOVERING. For instance the dictionary Aqrab al-Mawarid defines the word "khimar" as, "All such pieces of cloth which are used to cover the head. It is a piece of cloth which is used by a woman to cover her head". The great scholar Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir defines the word "khimar" in the following words, "Khumur is the plural of khimar which means something that covers, and is what is used to cover the head. This is what is known among the people as a khimar". A modern scholar, Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid says, "Khimar comes from the word khamr, the root meaning of which is to cover. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Khammiru aaniyatakum (cover your vessels).' Everything that covers something else is called its khimar. But in common usage khimar has come to be used as a name for the garment with which a woman covers her head; in some cases this does not go against the linguistic meaning of khimar. Some of the fuqaha have defined it as that which covers the head, the temples and the neck. The difference between the hijab and the khimar is that the hijab is something which covers all of a woman’s body, whilst the khimar in general is something with which a woman covers her head".

3) Imam Abu Abdullah Qurtubi describes the historical circumstances relating to the wearing of the khimar in pre-Islamic Arabia as follows, "Women in those days used to cover their heads with the khimar, throwing its ends upon their backs. This left the neck and the upper part of the chest bare, along with the ears, in the manner of the Christians. Then Allah commanded them to cover those parts with the khimar". Similarly, Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir reports, "'Draw their khumur to cover their bosoms' means that they should wear the khimar in such a way that they cover their chests so that they will be different from the women of the jahiliyyah who did not do that but would pass in front of men with their chests uncovered and with their necks, forelocks, hair and earrings uncovered". Both of these descriptions provide clear, explicit, specific explanations of what "extend their khimars to cover their bosoms" means.

4) The scholars have agreed unanimously that the khimar is a HEADCOVERING.

Please do not try to interpret the Quran by just looking up in some dictionary what the meaning of the root KHAMARA means. Each of the forms derived from this root may have a specific meaning. In order to interpret the Quran properly you need to know what the specific meaning of the particular form "khimar" was in the Arabic of the Prophet (). According to the common usage recorded from that time (in the hadiths), to dictionaries that have preserved the classical Arabic, and to the reports of the actual practice of the women of that time, the khimar is a HEADCOVERING. Can you present any hadiths or other Arabic writing of the time of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) that use the word "khimar" to mean a shirt or any type of covering other than a HEADCOVERING? Can you present entries from dictionaries of classical Arabic that fail to give HEADCOVERING as a defintion of "khimar"? Can you present reports of the dress of the pre-Islamic Arab women that apply the word "khimar" to other than a HEADCOVERING? Can you present opinions of the ulama that the khimar is other than a HEADCOVERING? If not, you have not refuted any of the evidence presented here. The examples I have given above are the accepted ways of determining what the meaning of the Quran is.

Now, if I told you "extend your hat to cover your ears" you would know automatically that the hat is a heacovering because that is what the word "hat" means in English, and you would understand automatically that the hat is to remain on the head while being extended down to cover the ears. Likewise the Arabs, when they were told "extend your khimar to cover your bosom", knew automatically that the khimar was a HEADCOVERING because that is what the word "khimar" means in Arabic, and they understood automatically that the khimar was to remain on the head while being extended to cover the bosom.

There can be no doubt about it, the meaning of the Arabic word "khimar" is HEADCOVERING. The Quran doesn't mention the word "head" separately because there is no need to, any more than English-speakers need to be told that a hat is worn on the head.

So let's have a third go at that list of commands for hijab:

1) Lower the gaze (24:31)

2) Guard the private parts (24:31)

3) Not display their beauty except their faces and hands (24:31)

4) Extend the HEADCOVERING to cover the bosom (24:31)

5) Not display the beauty beyond the face and hands except to the people listed in 24:31

6) Not stamp the feet so as to reveal hidden beauty (24:31)

7) Draw the jilbab close around them when abroad (33:59)

From this we can see that the Muslim woman has been given two directives in regard to covering the hair. The first directive is that the hair, along with the rest of the body except the face and the hands, must be concealed except before the people listed in 24:31. The second directive is that the hair should specifically be covered by the khimar, which must also extend to cover the neck and upper chest.

The directives of the Quran and Sunnah are quite clear and they quite clearly direct women to wear HEADSCARVES and to cover all of their bodies except the face and hands. Along with the jilbab (outergarment) and the modest conduct of lowering the gaze, guarding the private parts, and not stamping the feet, THIS IS HIJAB.

This is what Allah SWT and His Messenger have decided in this matter. It is not for a believing man or a believing woman to say anything further or to disobey (Quran 33:36).

Source

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=444053&postcount=13

With regards to scholarly opinions, the best way is to make her understand first where scholarly opinions lie in Islaam. Quran and Sunnah are our main sources but scholarly opinions are also needed as they are people of knowledge [who have dedicated their *whole* life learning the deen] and we have even been commanded in the Quran to ask people of knowledge when we do not know. But not to the extent that we become ta'asub with certain scholars nor do we take from everyone who claim to be as "scholars". It is only the true knowledge that we take from the learned people for the sake that we will understand the deen better, inshaAllaah.

Hope this thread gives some points you can share to her, inshaAllaah.

The Obligation of Following the Worthy Scholars and a Timely Warning


:wasalam:
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
Asalam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatou.
Thats interesting and all, but one question, niqab is not found in the Qur'an, neither is Hijab! HIJAB is in a HADITH. In the Qur'an, Allah tells us to cover our bussom (or chest area). it never mentions hijab or niqab in the Qur'an.
Coming up with reasons for Niqab is good, but they can't make it obligatory and the same goes for Hijab. Where in the Qur'an does it say to wear Hijab? It does say to cover, but where does it actually say to wear Hijab? It's a Hadith. Am I right?

Also, why should I follow some Scholars opinions when I have Qur'aan and Hadith? Niqab is an option, but it is not important. Its more cultural n not religious.


wa alaikum salaam,

I am sorry but the deen is our religion so be careful who you take your deen from and I would never take my deen from a person who does speak arabic as language nor has studied it (Islam) intenstly so for these reasons that is why I FOLLOW THE SCHOLARS OPINIONS and not reading the Qur'an or Hadiths because I do not have sufficent knowledge nor do many common folks.
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
As salaamu Alaikum

Does anyone remember the hadith in which the man came to the Prophet (SAWS) about marrying a woman and he (prophet) asked if he saw her? The man replied "no", so the prophet told him to go back ans see her because their is something in the eyes of the ansar woman"...well I THINK (MY conclusion not that of a scholar) is because the woman's face was covered and only her eyes were showing so the prophet (SAWS) advised the man to go back and see her face. I will try to find this hadith and copied it down.
 

Sakeena

Junior Member
I am not using this against hijab nor am I against hijb in any way!! Did you hear me say I am against hijab or don't like hijab? No you didn't. I was simply making a point and you failed to answer my question yet you accuse me and "others" of rejecting hijab which is NOT true, at least not for me. I simple noticed that hijab wasn't in the Quran and is mentioned in hadith, and have met Muslims who say they follow Qur'an but reject Hadith and Sunnah which makes no sense and they arre often in full hijaab. I don't wear hijab yet, but I follow Islam as best as I can.

She actually has a point.

That was a question I needed the answer to as well.

I've had Muslim women who don't cover their hair come up to me and ask me why I wear hijab when it is not explicitly mentioned in the Quran. They use the exact same excuse that the ayah in Surah Nisa claims that women cover their "bosoms". Naturally, these are people who believe hadith are independent of the Quran but just be aware that these are some arguments that people use against hijab. This also goes hand in hand with the argument that the scholars are not above the Quran and that their words should not be taken as set in stone.

These women actually really got to me with their constant doubts and their claim that covering the head wasn't in the Quran actually upset me because they made me feel as if I donning a cultural practice instead of a religious one.

So I hope someone does answer this question because I'm getting sick and tired of self-hating Muslim women accusing me of carrying out a cultural practice because hijab isn't explicitly mentioned in the Quran and they use it to justify simply dressing modestly and not having to cover one's head.
 

lovefordeen

Junior Member
Asalamo'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Great thread, JazaakumAllaahu Khayraa everyone.


2) It says one eye in most of those quotes. Most Niqaabis show both their eyes. Is that a problem? Especially if the sister herself feels they are standing out.


wa'alaikum assalaam wa rahmathulahi wa barakathuhu

dear sister,i have seen some women covering their entire faces...with both their eyes covered.....but i don't know how it is wrapped....
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
I am not using this against hijab nor am I against hijb in any way!! Did you hear me say I am against hijab or don't like hijab? No you didn't. I was simply making a point and you failed to answer my question yet you accuse me and "others" of rejecting hijab which is NOT true, at least not for me. I simple noticed that hijab wasn't in the Quran and is mentioned in hadith, and have met Muslims who say they follow Qur'an but reject Hadith and Sunnah which makes no sense and they arre often in full hijaab. I don't wear hijab yet, but I follow Islam as best as I can.

Sakeena, what are you talking about?

I wasn't talking about you. I was saying that some women that I know personally used the same argument as a way of arguing against hijab but I wasn't saying that you were one of them.

Please read posts entirely before making assumptions.
 

Um Ibrahim

Alhamdulilah :)
:salam2:

I really like this topic. Even though I wear the Niqab I am still confused as to if it is wajib or just sunna, Allahu A'lam. Either way, I know the benefits of Niqab are many; but of course there are many challenges that come with it as well especially when living in a country where the majority are non-Muslim. But for those who say it is only cultural and not Islamic, they need to answer the following questions: why were the wives of the Prophet commanded to wear it? We know that there were women at the time of the Prophet who used to cover their faces, why didn't he,the prophet tell them it is not necessary? Why didn't he stop them? Even if Niqab is not compulsory to wear, all of the scholars of Islam agree that it is good to wear it if the woman wants to and it is even recommended.

Shanaz, I would advice you to just ignore those women who are criticizing you about your hijab--I think they just want to bring you down to their level. Unless people just want to follow their desires and whims and their own interpretation of the Quran, it is very clear that Muslim women are commanded in the Quran by Allah to cover their body. Thats why the wives and daughters of the Prophet as well as other Muslim women at that time used to wear Hijab and Niqab. when those women who are criticizing you doubt the fact that Muslim women have to wear Hijab to cover their bodies, they are doubting the Prophet and the Quran. You should tell them that, and if they don't listen, then just ignore anything they say to you.
 

Tomtom

Banned
OK the scholars can think what they like. I'm going to post two different tasfirs and they both say different things.


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ يٰأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِيُّ قُل لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلاَبِيبِهِنَّ ذٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلاَ يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ غَفُوراً رَّحِيماً }

O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks closely over themselves (jalābīb is the plural of jilbāb, which is a wrap that covers a woman totally) — in other words, let them pull part of it [also] over their faces, leaving one eye [visible], when they need to leave [the house] for something. That makes it likelier that they will be known, to be free women, and not be molested, by being approached. In contrast, slavegirls did not use to cover their faces and so the disbelievers used to pester them. And God is Forgiving, of any occasion in the past when they may have neglected to cover themselves, Merciful, to them in His veiling them.


* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ يٰأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِيُّ قُل لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلاَبِيبِهِنَّ ذٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلاَ يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ غَفُوراً رَّحِيماً }

(O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them) to cover their necks and bosoms ((when they go abroad). That will be better, that so they may be recognised) as free women (and not annoyed) and not be harmed by the fornicators. (Allah is ever Forgiving) He forgives what they have done in the past, (Merciful) He shows mercy on them regarding that which they will do in the future.

So what this is telling us is that this ayat is open to interpretation and I suspect personal preference has seeped in. Now let us look at the Quranic translations.

Muhsin Khan
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.

Sahih International
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

Pickthall
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Yusuf Ali
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Shakir
O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Dr. Ghali
O you Prophet, say to your spouses and your daughters and the women of believers, that they draw their outer garments closer to them; that will (make) it likelier that they will be recognized and so will not be hurt. And Allah has been Ever-Forgiving, Ever-Merciful.

Niqab is a personal preference for women. Who am I you will ask?
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Perhaps this is a bit off-topic but worth to ponder upon:

When asked about her Hijab By Journalists and how it is not proportionate with her level of intellect and education, she replied:

“Man in the early times was almost naked, and as his intellect evolved he started wearing clothes. What I am today and what I’m wearing represents the highest level of thought and civilization that man has achieved, and is not regressive. It’s the removal of clothes again that is regressive back to ancient times"

Noble Laurette from Yemen, Tawakul Karman
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Asalamo'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Great thread, JazaakumAllaahu Khayraa everyone. I've got three questions if someone can answer Inshaa'Allaah.

1) Who is this "he" in this quote. Is it the prophet of Allaah :saw:?:

Wa'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakatuhu

Although brother Idris has answered this before, I just wanted to add in a tip that any time you see "He" with a capital H in the middle of a sentence, it will most probably relate to Allaah subhanhu wa ta'ala - unless it's a typo. It's a common distinction in the English language, so being aware of it will save a lot of trouble insha'Allaah !

2) It says one eye in most of those quotes. Most Niqaabis show both their eyes. Is that a problem? Especially if the sister herself feels they are standing out.

What I heard from a scholar before, was that women of that time wore niqaab very differently to what we think of today as 'niqaab'. It was more of a part of their garment which was taken and wrapped around their face. So it was more 'moveable' I suppose and so even if they covered one eye, another could be uncovered, as necessity states - to see the way. Some women nowadays chose to not uncover their eyes at all in the understanding that even with their eyes covered they can see the way, as is sometimes possible with the thinner niqaab coverings.

Either case, I don't believe it's a problem insha'Allaah as long as the conditions the scholars have mentioned are maintained, such as not making the opening for the eyes much larger than necessary and including things such as the forehead etc.

Second is the case of standing out - and if this is done on purpose then of course she should cover up, since this is an adornment. Like some sisters wear a lot of eye make-up which causes attention to be drawn to the eyes (and defeats the purpose?), and so in this case she should either make sure its not seen or she covers it up in public (as I have been told).

But as for if they naturally stand out? I don't know and I havent heard so I cant say.

3)About covering the hands and face during Ihram. Can we do that? It is so uncomfortable to have your face uncovered. What if there are men most of the time as sister Lostlilly mentioned? I was told we can't cover our faces and that no cloth should touch the face. True or false?

I havent seen a scholar, from at least the ones I follow, totally prohibit it. Here's some information which may be helpful insha'Allaah, and I believe it also gives some explanation as to why the understanding comes about that no cloth should touch the face (although it doesnt seem to be entirely accurate):

Question

asalam alykum my aunt asked the question If Niqaab was fard then why in Umrah and Hajj,women are not allowed to cover their faces in Ihraam? Those who take Hijaab and Niqaab both , they say it is obligatory to do both but other in group says If Niqaab was fard then why In Ihraam It is told not to cover their faces. Please guide acc to Quran and sunnah.

Answer

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) is His slave and Messenger.

We have already issued Fataawa 83033 and 81554 clarifying that the most preponderant opinion is that a woman is obliged to cover her face in the presence of marriageable men. The prohibition for a woman in a state of Ihraam to wear Niqaab (a tied face covering) does not mean that the face of a woman is not an 'Awrah (parts of the body that must be covered in Islam), because the prohibition is in regard to wearing the Niqaab or any other face covering which is a form fitting cloth. Since a man [who is in a state of Ihraam] is prohibited from wearing form-fitting clothes, the woman [who is in a state of Ihraam] is also prohibited from wearing the Niqaab, which is a form-fitting cloth for the face, and from wearing the gloves which are form-fitting clothes for the hands, but she should cover her face with anything other than the Niqaab. She may draw her Khimaar from her head down over her face in the presence of marriageable men as 'Aa'ishah may Allaah be pleased with her used to do. She may Allaah be pleased with her said: “The riders (on camels and horses) used to pass by us while we were with the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) and when they get near to us, one of us (females) would draw down her Jilbaab (head covering) from her head over her face, and when they would have passed by us, we would pull it up.” [Abu Daawood]. This is evidence that a woman in a state of Ihraam should cover her face in the presence of marriageable men, therefore, it is not correct to provide evidence that the face of a woman is not an 'Awrah because a woman in a state of Ihraam is prohibited from wearing Niqaab.
Allaah Knows best.

Source: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=96434

8 – It is haraam for the muhrimah to wear the burqa’ or niqaab (kinds of face-veils), and to wear gloves, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Women (during Hajj) should not wear niqaab or gloves.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari.

9 – The muhrimah should not uncover her face or hands in front of non-mahram men using the excuse that the niqaab and gloves are among the things that are forbidden in ihraam, because they can cover their faces and hands with anything such as their clothes, scarves, etc. Umm al-Mu’mineen ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “The riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihraam. When they came alongside us we would lower our jilbaabs from our heads over our faces, and when they had passed by we would uncover them.” Narrated by Abu Dawood and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Hijaab al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah.

10 – Some women, when they enter ihraam, put something like a turban or clips on their heads, so that no part of the khimaar or jilbaab will cover their faces. This is going to trouble for which there is no need, because there is nothing wrong with the cover touching the face of the muhrimah.

Source: http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/36619/
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
OK the scholars can think what they like. I'm going to post two different tasfirs and they both say different things.

I need to honestly ask you something brother: Do you know what a tafseer is? As in what it means?

Because I see you reference it a lot, and then in the same breath say something about scholars and their need (or lack of need rather) and/or dismissing them. Which is a complete and utter oxymoron (joke?) if you're going to be quoting tafseers. Or even the Muhsin Khan translation. Not to mention any translation.

But anyway, if possible, please answer the first question? It would really help me to understand.
 

Tomtom

Banned
I need to honestly ask you something brother: Do you know what a tafseer is? As in what it means?

Because I see you reference it a lot, and then in the same breath say something about scholars and their need (or lack of need rather) and/or dismissing them. Which is a complete and utter oxymoron (joke?) if you're going to be quoting tafseers. Or even the Muhsin Khan translation. Not to mention any translation.

But anyway, if possible, please answer the first question? It would really help me to understand.

Yes indeed a tasfir is an interpretation by somebody of the Holy Qur'an. This is accepted in Islam because people are not allowed to or are afraid to use their intellect. This is the best we have so that's why I had to use it, the best we have in the sense they are the only translations we can use today, official.

This is the reason why I've used different translations to highlight the difference in them. What I'd like to know is who gave these scholars authority? Ok don't answer that because we've gone through it and I'll only be crucified for asking it.
 
I

IslamIsSimple

Guest
Yes indeed a tasfir is an interpretation by somebody of the Holy Qur'an. This is accepted in Islam because people are not allowed to or are afraid to use their intellect. This is the best we have so that's why I had to use it, the best we have in the sense they are the only translations we can use today, official.

This is the reason why I've used different translations to highlight the difference in them. What I'd like to know is who gave these scholars authority? Ok don't answer that because we've gone through it and I'll only be crucified for asking it.

Brother Tomtom, I agree with you. Theres different interpertations. This is exactly when there was a discussion earlier. This doesnt mean opening the door for anyone to interpret based on his opinion with no criteria for interpertation.

But the difference of opinion, isnt based on there mere opinion of me, you, or any sheikh. Its on trying to understand how the early Muslims, the companions and the wives of the prophet, actually understood these verses.

For instance, you said Niqab is an option. Yes, according to the opinion I find more convincing, this is correct ( as an option that is preferred). I dont find this correct, because it was Al Albani who thought so, and not TomTom, but because looking into how it was understood by the wives of the prophet peace be upon him and the companions - May Allah be pleased with them, it seems this is what the verses actually meant.

So theres a methodology for Tafseer, and one this methodology is used, then the difference in opinion becomes understandable and acceptable. Otherwise it would mean opening the door for everyone to makeup things and twist verses as they wish without any criteria or methodology. Even if some have good intentions, if you allow it for yourself, you allow it for others with ill intentions who end up making up a new religion altogether, twisting verses as they go on.

Qur'aan 3:7 It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].

As for using intellect, having a methodology and criteria is the highest form of using intellect.

As for the translations, I agree with you, I frankly find problems with all translations, each having its own unique "problems" or reservations. However this is natural, because a translation of the Qur'aan, isnt a Qur'aan. Its humans best effort in translating its meanings, therefore, and due to the human element, theres always flaws.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamo'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Yes, Shady Sulaimaan is not upon the correct 'aqeedah when it comes to the Names and Attributes of Allaah.

As far as I am aware, he follows the Ash'aree 'aqeedah, mainly performing ta'weel (misinterpreting the names and attributes of Allaah with no proof).

So no, he should NOT be followed, nor should his lectures be listened to on the topic of 'aqeedah.


Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

Jazaakillaahu khayraa for the post. One of the senior and very knowledgable students of knowledge from madeenah said that Shady Sulayman does tafweedh- and when this was mentioned I had an intention to research about it and only remembered about it now. BaarakAllaahu feek

BaarakAllaahu feekum. I was wondering if we could take the word of likes of Sheikh Shady in fiqh issues? I haven't heard his say on this niqaab issue but the sisters post made me think if we can, provided that he's got 'Aqeedah issues.



Brothers Please translate the 'arabic stuff that you write in your posts when you can. I know both of you posted for each other and your 'arabic is "healthy" but, some of us who were reading, need translations.

JazaakumAllaahu khayraa.
I would really like some answers to these questions too, please.

'Aa'isha (ra) said:

“Male riders would pass by us while we (wives) were in the state of ihraam with the messenger of Allaah. When they would approach us, (each) one of us would let her jilbaab fall down from (the top of) her head over her face. And when they had passed on, we would uncover our faces.”
[Ahmad, Aboo Daawood and Ibn Maajah]

I think sister IslamicGirl was right when she said it shouldn't cling to the face:

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “A man stood up and said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, what kind of clothes do you command us to wear during ihraam?’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Do not wear a shirt or pants or a turban or a burnous. If one of you does not have any sandals then let him wear the khuffayn (leather slippers) and cut them so that they come below the ankle. Do not wear anything that has been dyed with saffron or turmeric. Women in ihraam should not wear niqaab or gloves.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1468; Muslim, 1177).

2 – With regard to lowering a cover over the face other than the niqaab, or for fear of being seen by non-mahram men, it has been reported in saheeh reports that some of the Sahaabiyyaat (women of the Sahaabah) did that:

It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: “We used to go out with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when we were in ihraam. If we met the riders we would lower our garments over our faces.(Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1833; Ibn Maajah, 2935)

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

It is not narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the woman in ihraam to cover her face; rather he forbade the niqaab only because it is worn on the face. He differentiated between the niqaab and covering the face. Based on this, if a woman in ihraam covers her face, we say there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better for her to uncover it so long as there are no non-mahram men around her, in which case she should cover her face from them. Al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 7/153

Source

Niqaab clings to the face so I suppose that's why its forbidden. Also the fatwa Sister Samiha's shared also says that since niqaab is tight fitting it cannot be worn unless the woman in question is left with no choice but to cover with niqaab. (underlined bit was in the fatwa I posted)
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamo'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,
wa'alaikum assalaam wa rahmathulahi wa barakathuhu

dear sister,i have seen some women covering their entire faces...with both their eyes covered.....but i don't know how it is wrapped....

I was thinking about wearing some real thick smoky glasses sometime ago. Didn't work 'cos I didn't get them.

Wa'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakatuhu

Although brother Idris has answered this before, I just wanted to add in a tip that any time you see "He" with a capital H in the middle of a sentence, it will most probably relate to Allaah subhanhu wa ta'ala - unless it's a typo. It's a common distinction in the English language, so being aware of it will save a lot of trouble insha'Allaah !

Wa alaykum salam warahmatullah wabarakatuh

From translation and commentary of Muhsin Khan in brackets.

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) (24:31)

I dont think Muhsin Khan would write both eyes if it would be a problem.

The He is Allaah, we always write the name of Allaah with a capital ''A'' and a capital ''H'' for He.

BaarakAllaah feekum for the clarification. I suppose I didn't notice the capital "H''

What I heard from a scholar before, was that women of that time wore niqaab very differently to what we think of today as 'niqaab'. It was more of a part of their garment which was taken and wrapped around their face. So it was more 'moveable' I suppose and so even if they covered one eye, another could be uncovered, as necessity states - to see the way. Some women nowadays chose to not uncover their eyes at all in the understanding that even with their eyes covered they can see the way, as is sometimes possible with the thinner niqaab coverings.

Moveable niqaab? Like wrapping a Dupatta?

But thinner niqaab shows the face when light falls directly on the face. I've seen some of my classmates' faces even with their niqaab on 'cos they wore a thin niqaab.

But as for if they naturally stand out? I don't know and I havent heard so I cant say.
This actually. You see it becomes wajib to wear niqaab for a girl whose beautiful. But what if a girl who is not beautiful, wears a niqaab is thought to be, because her eyes stand out naturally. I was wondering if she's at fault?

I havent seen a scholar, from at least the ones I follow, totally prohibit it. Here's some information which may be helpful insha'Allaah, and I believe it also gives some explanation as to why the understanding comes about that no cloth should touch the face (although it doesnt seem to be entirely accurate):

JazaakAllaah khair for the fatawaa but I found another one last night which says something to the effect of covering the face being fine but not wearing a niqaab as it's forbidden. I shared it with with sister IslamicGirl24.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
What I'd like to know is who gave these scholars authority? Ok don't answer that because we've gone through it and I'll only be crucified for asking it.
Asalamo'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Who? Allaah in the Quraan, The Prophet in His Narrations gave those with knowledge the authority to explain and teach.

The question is more of "what" actually. So it's their knowledge that gives them the authority.
 

Tomtom

Banned
Brother Tomtom, I agree with you. Theres different interpertations. This is exactly when there was a discussion earlier. This doesnt mean opening the door for anyone to interpret based on his opinion with no criteria for interpertation.

But the difference of opinion, isnt based on there mere opinion of me, you, or any sheikh. Its on trying to understand how the early Muslims, the companions and the wives of the prophet, actually understood these verses.

For instance, you said Niqab is an option. Yes, according to the opinion I find more convincing, this is correct ( as an option that is preferred). I dont find this correct, because it was Al Albani who thought so, and not TomTom, but because looking into how it was understood by the wives of the prophet peace be upon him and the companions - May Allah be pleased with them, it seems this is what the verses actually meant.

So theres a methodology for Tafseer, and one this methodology is used, then the difference in opinion becomes understandable and acceptable. Otherwise it would mean opening the door for everyone to makeup things and twist verses as they wish without any criteria or methodology. Even if some have good intentions, if you allow it for yourself, you allow it for others with ill intentions who end up making up a new religion altogether, twisting verses as they go on.

Qur'aan 3:7 It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].

As for using intellect, having a methodology and criteria is the highest form of using intellect.

As for the translations, I agree with you, I frankly find problems with all translations, each having its own unique "problems" or reservations. However this is natural, because a translation of the Qur'aan, isnt a Qur'aan. Its humans best effort in translating its meanings, therefore, and due to the human element, theres always flaws.

Ok bro I know where you are coming from. Take a look at this.

Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba:
`Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."
Bukhari
English reference: Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 282
Arabic reference: Book 65, Hadith 4806

Ok the beloved wife of the Prophet (pbuh) cut her waist sheet at the edges and covered her face. Why? The Quranic verse only mentions necks and bosoms and the face is above both the neck and the bosom.

Now look at this.

Umm 'Atiyya reported:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) commanded us to bring out on'Id-ul-Fitr and 'Id-ul-Adha young women, menstruating women and purdah-observing ladies, menstruating women kept back from prayer, but participated in goodness and supplication of the Muslims. I said: Messenger of Allah, one of us does not have an outer garment (to cover her face and body). He said: Let her sister cover her with her outer garment.
Muslim
English reference: Book 4, Hadith 1934
Arabic reference: Book 9, Hadith 2093

The words in bracket were inserted by somebody to highlight the face and body. "One of us does not have an outer garment" does not necessarily mean to cover the face as well.

Another example.


Narrated `Aisha:
Once Allah's Apostle entered upon me and he was in a very happy mood and said, "O `Aisha: Don't you know that Mujazziz Al-Mudliji entered and saw Usama and Zaid with a velvet covering on them and their heads were covered while their feet were uncovered. He said, 'These feet belong to each other.'
Bukhari
English reference: Vol. 8, Book 80, Hadith 762
Arabic reference: Book 85, Hadith 6857

In the example above, the Prophet (pbuh) says their heads were covered, does that also include the face?

We can take the premise that the family of the Prophet covered their faces as a personal preference rather than as a rule of law or as ordered by the Prophet, otherwise it would have been crystal clear that ALL muslim women should cover their faces. Since this is missing, we can assume that wearing a niqab is a personal preference, only those who want to can cover their faces.
 

IslamicGirl24

Junior Member
@ Sister Seeking Allah's Mercy:
JazakAllah Khayran for taking the time to share the fatwa. :)
From what I gathered from it was that there must absolutely be a covering over the face (in the presence on non-mehrams) BUT it should not touch the face.
Am I right in this assessment?
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Asalamo'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Moveable niqaab? Like wrapping a Dupatta?

wa'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakatuhu

Yes, I believe what was mentioned was something similar, only they didn't use the cloth just to cover the upper portion of their body (like a dupatta usually is) but their whole body, and extended a portion of that around their face. There may have been other ways, but what I'd heard was that this was a common method. This is as far as my memory serves me, maybe someone has more information about this?

But thinner niqaab shows the face when light falls directly on the face. I've seen some of my classmates' faces even with their niqaab on 'cos they wore a thin niqaab.

Well ukhti, it's actually different. I have a few of these types and what it is, is that the first layer which covers the forehead and face is thicker - and then on top of that there's a second layer which is thinner and can be used to cover the eyes, so that unless a girl is directly in front of light - nobody will be able to see her eyes, but she's able to see out of it (relatively). So it's the layer which covers the eyes and their face is at no point able to be seen.

This actually. You see it becomes wajib to wear niqaab for a girl whose beautiful. But what if a girl who is not beautiful, wears a niqaab is thought to be, because her eyes stand out naturally. I was wondering if she's at fault?

The issue here is necessity. In Islaam the principle stands, that one should not harm themselves through actions that are done, and exceptions are created for it. Just my advice strictly, it seems that if a girl has eyes that stand out and she fears they may be a fitnah to others - then she should fear Allaah as much as possible and do what she can. There are types of niqaab that are hardly able to see the eyes, such as some of these - and I even believe one of the sisters there are wearing the type of niqaab which covers the eyes as well.

But - if the necessity is that wearing it in these manners or ways may lead her to be unable to see where is going/what she is doing, then she should leave enough open to be able to go about her business without difficulty (as the hadeeth indicates) - since a person could come to serious harm if they are not able to see around them properly. And I do not believe she is at fault, as long as she does what she can and doesn't encourage fitan. The eyes in general are not as apparent as the face. You see the face/beauty even if you don't intend to, but with the eyes unless you're faced directly or nearby, or stared at - it's often not an issue of immediate attraction.

Again, for now this is just my opinion and advice. If I get a fatwa about this from a trustworthy source (or maybe someone else knows) - then I'll be sure to bring it insha'Allaah.

JazaakAllaah khair for the fatawaa but I found another one last night which says something to the effect of covering the face being fine but not wearing a niqaab as it's forbidden. I shared it with with sister IslamicGirl24.

baarakAllaahu feeki - ukhti, if you read the fatawa carefully, they say the same thing. The reason niqaab was forbidden was because of the nature of it - according to the first source - as it clings to the face/head in most forms, as well as gloves. So this is why it was prohibited (which I found interesting because I didn't think of it like that before), but that doesn't mean that covering the face is incorrect at all. Rather if you look at the fatawa again, both of them agree that a woman who wears niqaab should still cover her face through another manner, whether by pulling down her khimaar, or having a separate cloth to cover it etc..

The issue is less to do with if it touches the face, but instead if it clings to it and is what is taken as a standard niqaab.

wa'Allaahu A'lam
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
We can take the premise that the family of the Prophet covered their faces as a personal preference rather than as a rule of law or as ordered by the Prophet, otherwise it would have been crystal clear that ALL muslim women should cover their faces. Since this is missing, we can assume that wearing a niqab is a personal preference, only those who want to can cover their faces.

Brother TomTom, did you know that there is a consensus of the scholars that the least that can be said regarding the ruling on the Niqaab is that it is Mustahabb (i.e. preferred: A person will be rewarded for wearing it)- which then means that the Niqaab is legislated in this religion by the consensus of the scholars.

Also did you know that the consensus of the muslim scholars is a proof in this religion and it is one of the sources of Islaam like the Qur'aan and Sunnah?
 
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