Prophet Muhammad in the Old Testament

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by WhiteKnight, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. WhiteKnight
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    WhiteKnight Junior Member

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    Peace and God's blessing be upon you..

    Though the bible was distorted, there are some passages in it that mention prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and God's true religion, Islam. In that thread, we'll discuss only one of these innumerable passages concerning Islam and its great prophet (pbuh)

    In chapter 42 of the book of Isaiah, which is regarded as one of the longest books in the Bible, we'll find Isaiah the prophet telling us ,through God's inspiration, about the awaited prophet whose followers will praise the Almighty in the land dwelt by Kedar (son of Ishmael), here's the text in the King James Bible:-

    " 1- Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.


    2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

    3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

    4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

    5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

    6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

    10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.

    11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains."

    In the aforementioned verses, we'll find that God Almighty would send to the Gentiles (those who are not Jews or belong to the Israelite) a good-natured, chivalrous and great prophet who would spread Justice and peace across the entire globe. The followers of this prophet will praise the Lord in the land inhabited by the Arabs.

    Verse 11 is the crux of the passage, as it says: "Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains"

    According to the book of Genesis (Chapter 25), Kedar is one of the sons of Ishmael who had lived in the Arabian peninsula (between Havilah and Shur)

    13 And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam,

    14 And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa,

    15 Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah:

    16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.

    17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.

    18 And they dwelt from Havilah to Shur, which is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.

    [​IMG] ,

    Undoubtedly, Kedar and the Ishmaelite dwell in the Arabian Peninsula, in which prophet Muhammad was born and God inspired him.

    The End​
  2. Cariad
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    Salaam WhiteKnight,

    I believe you are in error in claiming Isaiah 42 for Mohammed. The prophecies of Isaiah dealt with Gods judgement of Israel and the Messiah. The "servant" in Isaiah is the same person throughout, namely the Messiah. If you claim 42 for Mohammed then Mohammed also has to fit the subsequent verses. Do you think Mohammed fits the verse below 53: 1-12? Who do you think it applies to?

    Isaiah 53:1-12

    New International Version (NIV)

    53 Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
    2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
    He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
    3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
    Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

    4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
    yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
    5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
    the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
    6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
    and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.

    7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
    he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
    8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
    For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
    9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
    though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.

    10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
    he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
    11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
    by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
    12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
    because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
    For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

    Throughout the long book of Isaiah the theme is clear to sum up the main points it makes in reference to the "Servant"... I do not think Mohammed would fit with any of the points. You must look elsewhere for your proof. But really I think you should just accept that Mohammed was not mentioned in the Bible, either the Old or New Testament. Why should it matter to you if he is? Your faith in Mohammed as a prophet should not rely on your finding proofs in the faiths of others. Trying to make verses fit when they do not, I feel does Islam an injustice.

    1. He is a descendent of Jesse through his son David. This proves that God’s servant is an Israelite, not an Arab.
    2. He is called Israel and distinct from national Israel. This provides additional proof that the servant is an Israelite and not an Arab.
    3. He is the Mighty God and eternal king.
    4. He is empowered by God’s Spirit.
    5. He will restore national Israel.
    6. He will be a light to the Gentiles and the Savior of the entire earth.
    7. He will be a covenant to the people.
    8. He will bring a law which all the peoples will follow.
    9. He will at first be rejected and despised by both the nation of Israel and other nations.
    10. He will offer himself as a sacrifice for sin.
    11. He will see offspring and carry out the Lord’s will.
    12. He will intercede and justify sinners.
  3. WhiteKnight
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    It's right that Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) is mentioned in the Old Testament (especially the book of Isaiah), but that doesn't mean that none of its passages talks about prophet Muhammad (especially Isaiah 42), and that all the passages in it are linked together and talk about the awaited Messiah (Jesus). Jesus Christ is the "awaited Messiah" as we Muslims and Christians believe, no one can deny this. But Isaiah 42 talks about somebody else rather than Jesus in my point of view. The following points are proofs on my perception:-

    1- This is the most important proof of all, Isaiah (42:11) says:-

    "Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands.".

    As we proved before, the villages of Kedar exist in the Arabian Peninsula. More than 95% of the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula are Muslims who believe in the Lord and praise his glory. It's even the cradle of prophet Muhammad and Islam. If that passage was talking about Jesus Christ, other places would be mentioned in it rather than the villages of Kedar. But why Kedar villages in particular are mentioned???? :confused-82:

    2- Isaiah (42:6) says :-

    "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles". It's more likely that this verse talks about a prophet who is sent to the Gentiles."
    Initially, Jesus Christ was sent to the children of Israel. The gospel of Matthew (15:24) says:-

    "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
    Jesus Christ was sent basically to the children of Israel to 'update' God's law and guide them to the right way from which they had gone astray. Prophet Muhammad was sent to the whole mankind (both Jews and Gentiles)

    3- Isaiah (42:17) says:-

    "They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods."

    Jesus Christ was sent to the Jews in time they weren't worshiping idols, but they were astray from God's law. Whereas prophet Muhammad was sent to the Arabian pagans to call upon them to worship God Almighty. It's more likely that the verse talks about one of God's messengers who would eradicate "paganism". The core of prophet Muhammad's message is to convince the pagans wisely and logically to shun their useless idols and worship the Single Omnipotent God, the Lord of the whole universe.

    Finally, I'd like to say that Muslims' belief in Islam and the prophecy of Muhammad do not hinge on the biblical prophecies as you said :). In a nutshell, not all of the prophecies in the book of Isaiah talk about Jesus Christ (the awaited Messiah). If you are not convinced of that still, give me logical justifications that 'debunk' the three previously - mentioned proofs.

    Peace and God's blessing be upon you :)
  4. Cariad
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    No where in the Book of Isaiah does it say the servant is from Kedar. "Let the wilderness and the cities..." And the village of Kedar doth inhabit.. Why would it not be mentioned? How do you base your hypothesis on what is really very flimsy evidence against what the rest of the book says. Also nowhere in Isaiah does it mention that singing and praising God would be in Arabic.

    The everlasting Covenant was sent through The Christ, where was the Covenant made with the Muslims and God? The verses in the Quran mention covenant only in reference to past covenants God made with the Jewish people. It appears to me that muslims live under the Old Jewish covenant, maybe the Abrahamic one, unless you can show me another? The Quran disagrees with your claim that Jesus was sent only for the children of Israel.

    From Sura Maryam...
    "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a pure son. She said: 'How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?' He said: 'So (it will be): thy Lord saith, "That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign UNTO MEN (lilnnasi) and a Mercy from Us". It is a matter (so) decreed.'" S. 19:16-21

    "And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for ALL PEOPLES" S. 21:91

    A sign unto ALL men and ALL peoples, and as the Bible also states Yeshua sent His disciples to all parts of the world to tell the good news (Gospel) in all languages leads one to believe that Yeshua was not only for the Children of Israel. Also does Islam not claim that the message of the Quran is written in Arabic, it's language today is Arabic, converts should master the Arabic language to better understand its message. How does that fit with it being a message for all mankind, when a relatively small proportion of the worlds population speak Arabic?

    I agree that Prophet Mohammed was sent to the pagans of Arabia. However, this is not what the Book of Isaiah is about, the pagans of Arabia were not on the radar at that time in history. Isaiah was concerned with Gods righteous judgement on Judah and the promise of the messiah. The Jewish people were not wholly astray from Gods law, but they were making it fit their lives instead of making their lives fit Gods law, if that makes sense :) Yeshua was sent to fulfil the law. Isaiah needs to be seen in context, all the books in the Old Testament have a place either in tribe or history. Isaiah was concerned with Judah, not Arabia so it is unlikely there would be anything pertaining to Arabia at all. 2000 + years ago the world was very different people did not travel the distances, their world and sphere of knowledge was localised.

    So I am not convinced :) but don't particularly mind about weather or not you feel your theories "debunked". I'm simply stating the other side of the story so to speak, and I hope you don't take it in any way being disrespectful to yourself or your beliefs. I see that we share the same God, that is the important thing. :)

    Peace and blessings upon you to :)
  5. WhiteKnight
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    Of course you are not being disrespectful to me or my beliefs :) Both of us interpret Isaiah 42 in two different ways, each one of us have his proofs which is believed to be right :D Even if Isaiah 42 is about Jesus, it doesn't matter at all to me because Jesus is as revered to us Muslims as Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) :)

    But we both agree that the villages of Kedar (Arabs) will praise the Lord. We Muslims believe in Jesus and praise the Lord. This doesn't debunk either my theories or yours :)

    Who said that I should master Arabic to be a Muslim? only 15% of Muslims speak Arabic as their first language. The rest of them either know little Arabic or do not . Islam is a global religion as Christianity, not a sectional one that is for Arabic-speakers only. Finally, I'd like to say that I didn't mean to say that Jesus Christ was sent only to the Israelite, I just said that his message was to them in the beginning, but after that he sent his disciples (Al Hawaryeen) across the whole globe to preach the gospel and call upon the nations of the Earth (Gentiles) to worship God as you said. However, I still believe in my hypotheses as you believe in yours xD

    Peace and God's blessings be upon you :)
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
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  6. Cariad
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    It's is refreshing to meet someone who is not "offended" by someone who does not share the same point of view. :) I am pleased to make your virtual acquaintance.

    Maybe master the Arabic language is an over exaggeration lol, but it is generally believed is it not that some level of knowledge must be desirable. Otherwise how does one know or understand the ritual prayers for example? Which are they not recited in Arabic on most occasions? I have also been told that such is the complexity of Arabic that one should read two or three translations of Quran to better understand it. If this is not the case then it was a Muslim that told me wrong.

    We are free to choose our own path and beliefs, which is by the grace of
    God.

    Peace.
  7. WhiteKnight
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    In Islam, God told us to behave wisely and kindly towards non Muslims (even Pagans), we know that you don't believe in Prophet Muhammad and Islam. However, we should be kind to you as long as you didn't fight us. The Holy Koran says (60:8) :-

    "Allah (God) forbids you not respecting those who fight you not for religion, nor drive you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly. Surely Allah loves the doers of justice."
    By the way, some Islamic scholars say that a Muslim who doesn't know Arabic can perform ritual prayers in his own mother tongue.

    Peace be upon you :)
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  8. Cariad
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    I like your answers WhiteKnight. :)

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