Question: Was revolting against Gaddafi legitimate according to Islam?

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by MohammedMaksudul, Sep 6, 2011.

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  1. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    Unless until a ruler becomes a kaafir, even if he is one of the most wretched Zalimun on the earth Muslims are supposed to obey him. We have the example of the likes of Al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf for that. So was revolting against Gaddafi legitimate for the Libyan people ? Has he been declared a kaafir ? No posts should be made based on emotional judgement, etc. Strictly answers with analysis from the perspective of Islam (to be backed with evidences from the Quran, Sunnah and the Islamic History). Thus, it has been posted under the Islamic Discussion Forum.
  2. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    57 views and not a single answer!
  3. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    perhaps you should back what you state with evidence from Quran and Sunnah, maybe others would be more willing to comment.

    As for what is going with all these jasmine revolutions, it has nothing to do with the people. It is all western backed and paid for and initiated by them. Look up (google) new middle east map, they are done with their puppet rulers and now are removing them all for their new middle east map.
  4. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    I was actually reading a text that had me thinking today. I am not sure that I have the knowledge to answer this. Someone had posted a video of Farrakhan that was removed. It was excellent. He presented a side of the political argument that has not been aired in the US. That video had me thinking.

    It has been posted on TTI before. Not with Gaddafi per say but how should Muslims react to revolutions and protests.

    Brother, if you search the older threads you will find answers.

    I am seeking knowledge on this matter. I have always been political and am having second thoughts on this serious matter.

    Is there not a hadeeth that relates to us if a Muslim kills another they are both going to see hellfire? I read that earlier today.

    And like you I want serious answers.
  5. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    Not everything is as it seems or as the media (east or west) tells you....


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  6. esperanza
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    esperanza revert of many years

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    i wish to reply,,,,but as you need evidences,,,have not answered yet,but this is one issue that really im interested in...
  7. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    Is it permissible to rebel against the ruler?

    The basic comprehensive principle of sharee’ah is that it is not permitted to remove an evil by means of a greater evil; evil must be warded off by that which will remove it or reduce it. Warding off evil by means of a greater evil is not permitted according to the scholarly consensus (ijmaa’) of the Muslims. If this group which wants to get rid of this ruler who is openly committing kufr is able to do so, and can bring in a good and righteous leader without that leading to greater trouble for the Muslims or a greater evil than the evil of this ruler, then that is OK. But if rebellion would result in greater trouble and lead to chaos, oppression and the assassination of people who do not deserve to be assassinated, and other forms of major evil, then that is not permitted. Rather it is essential to be patient and to hear and obey in matters of good, and to offer sincere advice to the authorities, and to pray that they may be guided to good, and to strive to reduce evil and increase good. This is the correct way which should be followed, because that is in the general interests of the Muslims, and because it will reduce evil and increase good, and because this will keep the peace and protect the Muslims from a greater evil.

    Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 8, p. 202

    http://islamqa.com/en/ref/9911/
  8. esperanza
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    esperanza revert of many years

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    OBEYING YOUR LEADER



    Al-Barbahaaree (d. 329H) said, “It is not permissible to fight the ruler or rebel against him even if he oppresses. This is due to the saying of the Messenger of Allah to Abu Dharr al Ghifaaree, “Have patience, even if he (ruler) is an Abyssinian slave.” Reported by, Muslim. The prophet said ‘Abyssinian slave’ not to be raciest or because he was raciest. He only said this because in his time the hardest thing for the Arabs to handle would have been being ruled by a non-Arab or a slave. Having a ruler that was both (a slave and a non-Arab) it would be very hard for the Arabs to not revolt and rebel against this type of ruler whether he was good or bad so this is why the prophet told the sahaba to have patience with this situation or any similar situation where in they dislike the ruler whether it be because he is a tyrant, a non-Arab or a slave.

    The prophet also said to the Ansaar (the Muslims who lived in Medina by the other Muslim came from Mecca and the surrounding areas.) when talking about having patient with rulers, “Have patience until you meet me at the pool (this is the pool that Allah will give to the prophet for the Muslims to drink from on the day of resurrection).” Reported by Bukhari

    Umar Ibn Yazeed said: I heard al-Hasan al-Basree (who was from the greatest of the salaf (early generations of Muslims) during the days of Yazeed Ibnul-Mahlab, and there came to him a group of people (asking about revolting and fighting against the sinful ruler of that time). So he commanded them to stay in their houses and to close their doors. Then he said: ‘‘By Allah! If the people had patience when they were being tested by their unjust ruler, it will not be long before Allah will make a way out for them. However, they always rush for their swords, so they are left to their swords. By Allah! Not even for a single say did they bring about any good.’’ It is related by Ibn Sa’d in at-Tabaqaat (8/164), and by Ibn Abee Haatim in his Tafseer (3/178).

    It is also related by Ibn Sa’ad in Tabaqaatul Kubraa (7/163-165) A group of Muslims came to al Hasan al Basree (d. 110H) seeking a verdict to rebel against al Hajjaaj (a tyrannical ruler who even killed a few sahaba in the era of Hasan al-Basree). So they said, “O Abu Sa’eed (meaning Hasan al-Basree it was his kunyah) What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that?” So al Hasan said, ”I hold that he should not be fought. If this is the punishment from Allah, then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial from Allah, then be patient until Allah’s Judgement comes, and He is the best of Judges.

    Hudhaifah reports that the Messenger of Allah said “There will come leaders who will not follow my guidance and will not follow my Sunnah. There will be amongst them men who will have the hearts of devil and bodies of humans.” He (Hudhaifah asked) “What shall I do, o Messenger of Allah if I reach that?” He replied, “You should hear and obey the ruler even if he flogs your backs and takes your wealth, then still hear and obey.” Reported by Muslim (Eng. trans Vol 3/1029/34554)

    This hadeeth is the same as the one above however it as slight different wording, the prophet said “If Allah has on earth a caliph (leader of all the Muslim countries) who flays your back and takes your property, obey him, otherwise die holding onto the stump of a tree.” (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 35, Trials and Fierce Battles (Kitab Al-Fitan Wa Al-Malahim), Number 4232)

    http://ahlusunnahwaljamaah.com/2011...l-with-the-oppressive-muslim-rulers-of-today/


    i have found these references today as this subject interests me greatly,as ialways argue with my son,brought up in saudi school system-he tells me we have always been taught that we have to obey our leader.....

    and iget upset becasue itell him look at libya look at syria,he is killing innocent people.........

    so idsearched for these references
  9. esperanza
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    esperanza revert of many years

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    IF A LEADER IS AGAINST ISLAM???

    BUT WHAT ABOUT ASSAD OF SYRIA

    he persecutes muslims ,has long repressed those who are faithful,has attacked mosques,and his supporters are raisng him to a status not acceptable in islam,so surely such a leader should be stopped???

    The Prophet said: ‘‘The person must obey in whatever he loves, and in whatever he hates, in ease and in hardship, in willingness and un-willingness; except if he is commanded to disobey Allah. So if he is commanded to disobey Allah, then he should not listen, not should he obey.’’ Related by al-Bukhari (4/203)
  10. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Sister,

    Lets keep the thread on Gaddafi. And brother it thank you for re-posting the video. If the members would take a minute to watch this very informative video some of these discussions would make sense.

    Most Caucasians will not watch this video. Please watch it.
    Before responding to this thread I think they need to view it.
  11. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Assalaamu `alaykum

    I hate to see when people apply a fatwa in the wrong situations. None of the fatwa above talks about Libya's situation or even Syria's.

    Regarding Libya- Sh. `Abdul-Rahmaan al-Barraak said it is waajib to do khurooj against Qadhdhaafi and if I can remember correctly- sh. Saalih al-Luhaydaan said he is a Murtad.

    With regards to Assad in Syria- then this guy is a kaafir and the government is a kaafir regime.

    People should be careful before applying general fataawa to specific situations.

    Wassalaamu `alaykum
  12. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    It's true, we should not find any fatwas and post them as evidence. Sometimes fatwas are in general (like the one I post) and sometimes are specific and apply only to that situation for which it was given.

    The fatwa I posted was about rebelling against are ruler ( in general) and I believe it's true in any case and stands on its on as it states:


    The basic comprehensive principle of sharee’ah is that it is not permitted to remove an evil by means of a greater evil; evil must be warded off by that which will remove it or reduce it.
  13. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    ^^ And one should be a scholar to know when to apply the principle.

    BaarakAllaahu feek
  14. Happy 2BA Muslim
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    Happy 2BA Muslim Islamophilic

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    :salam2:

    The above fatwas are correct and sound, but it applies to Muslim rulers.

    Is Gaddafi a Muslim?

    (Can one of the moderators please put in the video? It has been a long time, and I forgot how to)

    :salam2:
  15. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Asalamaoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

    I'll do the honors if it's Okay=)

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    I was going to post this video myself, but you got a ahead of me.
  16. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    I have no doubt that it is haraam to rebel against a MUSLIM leader, unless he is one of the murtadeen. I would like to see the original fatwas of the fatwa councils and committees and the scholars regarding the takfeer of Gaddafi and what evidence have they used for it.
  17. hayat84
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    hayat84 I'm not what you believe

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    Gheddafi muslim?!maybe I'm dearming or maybe I've had a hallucination.I saw the house in which he lived and it was full of each comfort and luxe.how can he be a muslim,he who ordered that massacre?every creature is born free,and the libyans endly freed themselves from an exployter like him.I allow myself to say that he's a criminal,he's not a good ruler,because on the contrary way nobody would have rebelled to him.now he's escaping to somewhere because he's a criminal who knows to have rebelled to Allah's rules:any man who kills his fellow intentionally,it's like he's killed the whole humanity.
    Hey,correct me if I was too cruel:wasalam::astag:
  18. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    Sister Hayat, based on what you said in Islam you can not make takfeer against someone. You need proofs and strong ones. And that even scholars have to do the job, not you and me. But yes there is a verse in the Quran about those who replace Allaah's law with their own laws.
  19. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    JazakAllahu Khairan, but I think someone should help with a better translation. But JazakAllahu Khairan to you akhi, for the effort.
  20. hayat84
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    hayat84 I'm not what you believe

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    brother,I based my post on what I've seen on tv.one day,some months before this revolution,Gheddafi came to Italy to talk with Berlusconi of some business about the petrole.behind Gheddafi there were some ladies dressing like the hostesses and they were tighting in their hands a copy of the Holy Quran.in that occasion Gheddafi said that whenever one of those ladies would have reverted to Islam,he would have promised to her to make her perform the Hajj in Mecca.after this revolution,some of the same hostesses accused him to have raped hers,and not only hers.
    if it's really a lie,then it's a big one!I don't know what to believe,by the way that what I see is mostly fake.I'm sorry,didn't intend to make Takfir neither to judge,it was my mind which was expressing,not me.:wasalam:
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