RED MOSQUE

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by eemaan1, Jul 6, 2007.

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  1. eemaan1
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    :salam2:

    Can som1 plz tell me wats goin on in pakistan? Lal masjid? r these student right or wrong or is this whole thing a ploy?
    :blackhijab:
  2. Mabsoot
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    Wa alaykum Salam,

    Both the Government forces AND the Students are Wrong.

    There are clerics using innocent students and misguiding them into doing wrong things. Such as street fighting and violent demonstrations, vigilantiism and whipping people up into emotional frenzy.

    Many of their demands are correct - They want to stop the prostitution, drugs taking, alcohol etc.

    But, nobody should be taking up arms! and Muslim fighting Muslim is wrong and a very big shame for any Muslims to resort to. People must do things in the right way, instead of getting so heated.

    There also may be a case of agent provocateurs in the demonstrations
  3. Globalpeace
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    Position of Scholars of Pakistan on Lal-Masjid issue!

    Asslamo Allaikum Brothers/Sisters,

    I change my position (from my post on TTI a few weeks ago!) in the light of rejection of Lal-Masjid scholars to the sincere advice & call of Mufti Rafi Usmani, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Shaykh Saleem-ullah & others, who are the senior-most scholars of Pakistan!

    View of Scholars:

    Almost all major scholars of Pakistan have endorsed the principle of establishment of Shariah BUT REJECTED the tactics used by the scholars of Lal-Masjid.

    No Muslim in their right mind would endorse brothels, *!*!*!*! movies & everything but the tactics used are denounced by the scholars.

    Mufti Taqi Usmani actually said to Shaykh Abdul Aziz Sahab (who later escaped from the Mosque in Niqaab): Your tactics are neither correct nor have any sound reasoning or logic behind them!

    Realities on the Ground:

    The cease-fire brokered between Busharraf government & Lal-Masjid by Shaykh Fadhlur-Rahman (leader of opposition, Pakistan National Assembly) was denounced by Lal-Masjid scholars YET one of them choose to escape the Mosque with a Niqaab with this wife while hundreds of parents were pleading the Army NOT to shoot at their children besieged in the Mosque!

    In my humble opinion the government has shown restraint while the scholars of Lal-Masjid have chosen to reject the advice of senior scholars of the country!

    As I said in my previous post that I went to School in Pakistan across the street from Lal-Masjid and did Jummuah and other prayers behind the Father of the two scholars in the current crisis!
  4. Mabsoot
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    :salam2:

    Indeed! and it is very silly and foolish situation! Astaghfirullah.

    And anyway, where are all the cries about the various shrines and Mosques built over graves where people go and pray to the dead .. or where they keep disabled and disfigured "Rat children" who they think can give them good luck?? So much supersticion, Shirk (Associating partners with Allah) and Bidah (innovating new practises into our perfect and complete Islam) is happening in many of our countries.

    If people had really got their priorities straight and learnt Islam properly, and were basing it all on actual Quran and Sunnah with understanding of the early generation of Muslims, we would not have these problems or many of the problems that are with us today in the Islamic world.

    wasalam
  5. sand3091
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    Asslam o Alaikum, Brother I am a Pkistani. I realy don't know in detail about whats going on in Pakistan. but I have question. If an Imam is asking to bring in shariah law in a country that is Islamic republic, is that wrong. I am not in favour of what happnened. It shouldn't be done. But is it not right to stand stern against the evil.
    I think we have a problem here. You see quran says in Sura Al Maidah. i am not sure about the verse number. I think verse 5 or 6. that if a perverter trnasgressor comes to you with any news, then makes sure that the news you have got is true before you start spreading it and inturn you create greater mischeif. and then you curse yourself for what you have done.
    there are these people who create innovations in deen or Islam in Pakistan, but there are good people there as well. who spend there lives to spread Islam.
    My friend please make sure before you spread the news. the verse that I qouted is not the exact meaning of that verse so please for exact translation read Quran.
    I don't mean to be a part of politics.
  6. virtualeye
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    AssalaamuAlaikum,

    I do not support the overall strategy of lal masjid Molanas but could anyon give me solution to the problems of prostitution all around when govenment itself not only avoids taking action but majority of parliment members are customers of such whorehouses?

    There were two ways:

    1- Government takes action against whore houses
    2- The whorehouses keep on doing business while the people around those whorehouses become sick of such activities.

    The first option did not happen EVER. The second option is not acceptable. Then? Would you lal masjid "Mullah" bashers give me solution to it?

    For the people who think there is such thing called "Government" in Pakistan then FYI, there is no such thing called "Government" in Pakistan.
    This Busharraf toolbox is not government but a curse to the lives in Pakistan.

    Even in a worst uncivilized country, Can you imagine any Chief Justice of supreme court being treated like a 3rd class sweeper? Well, this happened in "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". It has become "***** Republic of Pakistan" not "Islamic Republic".


    People are moaning that "Government writ" is being challenged by lal masjid dudes. May I ask such hypocrites where was the "Government write" when Massonic Nato forces bombed Pakistani areas and killed 80 men and children, among which 5 children were from the same parents???
    May I ask where was the writ of government when such incidents happend again and again killing dozens of Innocent Muslim flowerlike children?


    Hypocrites are very efficient to bark about those "Extremists, Mullahs, blaaaa blaaaa..." but they keep mum when a country like America raids their citizens.


    What is more worse? Kidnapping 5 or 6 people with due respect for a couple of days or making the mince of dozens of people through missile attacks many many times?????

    Why is that?

    Answer: MIGHT IS RIGHT.
    You can go smash the lal masjid students, then go do it.
    Your tail catches fire if you ask for your due right of sovereignty from America or NATO, then keep on prostrating for them.


    Lal Masjid people were not right in their action, but nobody gives a damn that their action was infact a reaction to the filth spread by government.
    Same as nobody gives a damn to the dozen times raped sister of an Iraqi, but everyone condemns his reaction of suicide bombing.

    For the Urdu readers following column is enough:

    Attached Files:

  7. Globalpeace
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    Criticism of Rulers: Say “No” to Saudi Sponsored Islam!

    W-Salam,

    When I was in school we used to listen to Maulana Abdullah's (RA) talks and Jummuah Khutbah and often General Zia-ul-Haq (RA) used to show up because at that time Lal Masjid was the main Masjid in Islamabad as Faisal Masjid was still under construction!

    He (RA) used to rip into General Zia-ul-Haq (RA)'s policies and openly criticise him for unIslamic programs and tactics and General Zia-ul-Haq (RA) just used to put his head down and listen!

    Then the Saudees funded Faisal Masjid and it BECAME a classic example of Saudi Islam, i.e. NO POLITICS! let the rulers do what-ever they want....talk about all sorts of Aqeedah/Shirk/Bid'aa stuff amongst the masses BUT the rulers are above the law!

    I am glad that Maulana's son have taken a stand similar to what their Father used to do!

    I am glad that Islamabad is getting back to the way it used to be! Criticism and objection to rulers in their face in front of people to let everyone know that there is something wrong and there are things VERY WRONG in Pakistan at the moment!

    Open criticism and objection is a sign of FREE SPEECH in Islam and this was practised abundantly in the time of the Khulafa and there have been many Scholars in Islam who have raised the slogan of Islam in abject and dire circumstances and this is the hallmark of courageous Ulama (the ones who are NOT government funded and have a back bone!)

    1) So I like all Pakistanees and Muslims all over the world support the cause whole-heartedly.

    2) I also support the Dawah i.e. visiting the video shops and *!*!*!*! shops and giving them Dawah to shut these stations of vice!

    I however along with all major scholars of Pakistan, DON’T SUPPORT the direct confrontation with Pakistan Army…These soldiers DO NOT want to fire on Pakistani citizens and they particularly don’t want to open fire on Muslims in a Mosque!

    This sort of confrontation will lead to lose of life on both sides and in the end Muslims will suffer!

    Lastly I must say that Faisal Masjid (Saudi funded) is a cancer on the heart of Islamabad as when Tony Blair was visited a few months ago Busharraf government ordered Asar Adhan to be delayed so it will not interfere with Blair’s visit! There were protests all over Islamabad and Government had to issue an explanation in the local papers!

    Bring in criticism to Government (and everybody else) and Dawah to the masses as they are part of Islam, but lets say NO to OPEN confrontation with the Army!

    In Islam NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!
  8. MOSABJA
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    VOICE OF MUJAHIDEEN

    Islamabad, 6 July (AKI) - As security forces continue to besiege and attack the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) in Islamabad, where militants and seminary students are holed up for the fourth day, one of the key mediatory figures who has the trust of both the Pakistani establishment and Islamist Mujahadeen circles, is deputy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz. Known as the "voice of mujahadeen" in the Pakistani parliament, the former Taliban commander in Jabulussiraj (Afghanistan) and son of a famous anti Soviet mujahadeen, he is a local hero in the remote North West Frontier Province (NWFP). Adnkronos International (AKI) asked him his assessment of the situation.

    AKI: The operation on Lal Masjid is going on with full force. There are an unknown number of casualties believed to be into the dozens. How do you see this development.

    Shah Abdul Aziz: I have been giving a constant message. We need to understand that we are all Pakistanis. Pakistanis should be dealt as Pakistanis even if they did something wrong. The dealing with foreigners should be different, if they transgress. For example if General Pervez Musharraf is aiming to confront the transgression and breach of law he should use force against the NATO aircraft who violate our borders and kill innocent citizens.

    I utterly disagree with Lal Masjid the way they took the law into their own hands but this is not the issue on which they should have been taken on. The issue is the accomplishment of a US agenda in this region. Now you can see the statements of the British PM and when we would be counting the corpses of our brothers on the both sides (from security forces and Lal Masjid) we would be hearing tappreciation from Bush as well.

    AKI: Maulana Abdul Aziz, [one of the two leaders of the Lal Masjid which has been challenging the authority of the state and seeking to impose Sharia law] has been arrested. Many people believe the way he was arrested [trying to escape the complex disguised as a woman under a long burqa] does not fit a person who was preaching to others to sacrifice their lives for the cause.

    Shah Abdul Aziz: This is all government propaganda. The night Maulana Abdul Aziz was arrested and brought to (state run TV ) PTV, I finished a talk-show and was on the way out with the anchor of the programme. I saw Maulana Aziz along with security officials. He hugged me and refused to shake hands with the presenter and he immediately told me that he was deceived.

    He was called by a senior official of an intelligence agency with whom he has been in touch for long. Since this man could not enter into the mosque to meet him [to save his cover and identity] he asked Maulana Aziz to come down to Aabpara police station [situated on a walking distance from the mosque] and asked him to wear a Burqa to avoid identification. Maulana Abdul Aziz admitted that he and his brother Abdul Rasheed Ghazi did the same many times in the past when they were declared wanted by the government, but when he came out he was arrested.

    AKI: What repercussions do you foresee from this operation in other parts of the country? And why six parties religious alliance MMA leadership is keeping its distance except Qazi Hussain Ahmed?

    Shah Abdul Aziz: A very big reaction which nobody would expect. I am trying my very best to avoid this clash between Mujahadeen and our beloved Pakistan Army. I am in contact with Abdul Rasheed Ghazi every hour of the day and trying to pursue him to show resilience and talk to the government to show restraint because if both sides don’t show prudence a fierce storm is heading towards us.

    I have similar complaints about the MMA - why they are not playing the role to put pressure on the government? I tell you there are reports of armed clashes between the security forces and the members of TNSM [militant group Tehrik-i-Nifaz-i-Shariat-i-Mohammadi] in Swat and Dir. I have sent repeated messages to the government that it is a matter of days that a fierce reaction would emerge from our tribal area, Balochistan and other parts of North West Frontier Province. The mujahadeens and Army would be confronting each other. I am requesting to everybody but nobody is listening to me.

    AKI: What is the perspective of this conflict: is it international or local

    Shah Abdul Aziz: We should think and review what we are doing. We are killing our own people for somebody else's cause. Musharraf makes fun of [Afghan president Hamid] Karzai but I say he is a far better head of state than Musharraf at least he has the guts to shed crocodile tears on the casualties caused by NATO bombardment.

    Musharraf does not even condemn the NATO aggression. ISPR (inter-services public relations of Pakistan armed forces) shamelessly admits the transgression of NATO aircraft and their assaults and says that it would not allow it to happen again. I say that even if somebody is involved in terrorism it is the responsibility of our armed forces to carry out the operation. It should not be for the foreigners not by the foreigners.
  9. sister herb
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  10. Aapa
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    Salaam,

    Sister your link was an eye-opener. We are in such dire need of a true leader.
  11. virtualeye
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    This link is pretty biased. I have very clearly mentioned the reasoning about why this extreme situation is occurring. Would anybody bother to read my previous comments in this thread?
  12. Aapa
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    Salaam Brother,

    I read your comments. You write the truth. I reread your comments. We all have concerns about the state of Pakistan. There are simple solutions; yet no one to lead. The state of the world is caught up in appeasing the US.
    The Muslim world took aid from the US...and now they have to pay the devil back. The price is Muslim blood.
    As I write I know very few will read what I have written. There is little action to support my thoughts...I believe...I know that the Victory belongs to Allah and Allah alone...
    So Brother do not be dismayed. Have hope and keep up the good work. I am with all my heart eagerly awaiting the next meterior shower..it is time to expell the servants of the servants of the devil...Allah will show us how.
  13. Globalpeace
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    May Allah (SWT) help us!


    Asslamo Allaikum,

    You can tell by the way these students are holding the AK-47 that most of them are cow-boys!

    May Allah (SWT) help us all (Ameen).

    Aapa! These guys REFUSED to listen to Mufti Taqi Usmani who is their teacher and delegation of leading Scholars who asked them to give up!
  14. MOSABJA
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    Let me correct it .

    1)They refused to listen to Mufti on the issue of CHILDREN LIBRARY .

    2) Now when the operation has started the other brother ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI is prepared to SURRENDER to leave madressah . But He does not want to be arrested as he thinks he would be humiliated in the same way as his brother.

    3) Now ULEMAS are calling the GOVERNMENT to accept GHAZI's offer .But it seems NOW MUSH is HUNGRY FOR BLOOD. Last night GHAZI claimed that 300 STUDENTS were killed.

    4) He says that government deceived ABDUL AZIZ by giving him a secret MESSAGE that if he comes out wearing a BURQA the OFFICIAL would meet him and solve the crisis.He also says that STOPPING WATER,FOOD,ELECTRICITY,GAS PLUS NOT ALLOWING MEDIA TO SEE THE GRAVITY OF SITUATION IN MASJID is the Government's BRUTAL act similar to Forces of YAZID.He said that after his MARTYRDOM he should be Buried in Masjid and His sacrifice would TRIGGER ISLAMIC REVOLUTION.


    I think they are WRONG in the way they are enforcing SHARIAH but now WHEN THEY ARE WILLING TO SURRENDER THEN WHY THE HELL THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THE link IS A BIASED ONE .One SHOULD KNOW THE SITUATION ON GROUND.
  15. Globalpeace
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    Asslamo Allaikum,

    According to the best of my understanding and discussions (yesterday) with a leading Maulana from Pakistan, visiting UK!

    Both Maulans are students of Mufti Taqi Usmani and they BOTH refused to listen to Mufti Taqi Usmani & Maulana Saleem-ullah and Maulana Fazlur-Rahman, the later negotiated SAFE passage out of the Mosque and no reprisals from Musharraf government....

    Mufti Taqi Usmani said on record, " The evidence that they are presenting for their actions is out of context and doesn't conform to the understanding of the Jamhoor of the Muslim Scholars"

    Allah (SWT) knows best!

    P.S: Personally, I can ONLY make dua for someone who have balatantly ignored the Kabair (major) Ulama of the country....Their heart is in the right place, their strategy and methods are way off!

    P.P.S: Yes I understand that Both Maulans are ready to surender now, but Busharraf is hungry for blood of around 2000 innocent kids (yes, these are children both boys & girls)....Begharat, Besharam!

    If Busharraf DOESN'T BACK DOWN SOON! This will have serious repurcussions in Pakistan. This has the potentical to become the beginning of the end!

  16. MOSABJA
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    I am living in Pakistan.all Channels cover the event LIVE

    MUFTI TAQI USMANI said in a program "MERAY MUTABIQ" on GEO that LAL MASJID cirsis is not impossible to resolve as MAULANA has agreed on many ISSUES .Now the ball is in the court of GOVERNMENT.They should give SAFE PASSAGE to MAULANA.

    Also right now in the same program MUFTI MUHAMMAF NAEEM said that LAL MASJID were wrong in the beginning but the STOPPING OF WATER,BOMBARDMENT OF MASJID,ARMY TREATING STUDENTS LIKE CRIMINALS,MISTREATMENT TO WOMEN who came out is an Inhuman act.

    Attached Files:

  17. sister herb
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    **********************
  18. muharram23
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    Brother salamu alaykum

    The ayat ur talkin about is in sura Hujurat verse 6

    6. O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.


    wa alaykumussalam
  19. al-fajr
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    :salam2:
    So ure saying...(i still dont get it) that musharraf is looking for some sort of political advatage now by not allowing it to end when the chance has arrived for it to end?

    when u say "repurcussions", do u mean musharraf has to go, and will that definitely mean they get somone like nawaz sharif or bhutto (Allah forbid!) back?! :eek: or what other repurcussions are u talking about?
  20. TruthandJustice
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    Assalamualaikum,

    Peace be with you all, my reply is that placing the lives of innocent people in danger whether its by the leaders of the Masjid or the government is not correct. I agree with Bro. Mabsoot, the leaders of the masjid should know that this is not the image supporters of the Shariah need, the majority of the Muslim world does believe in the Shariah and we have great, great expectations from that rule of government. We need people who can correctly apply it but they must try their best to come to power legally, if they came to power in a legal manner but are opposed for no other reason but their willingness to apply Shariah, then they have a right to consolidate their legitimate power.

    I believe that what is going on here goes deeper than what we are seeing right now, many people are asking how the leaders of the masjid were able to collect such arms right under the governments nose. Many people see this whole affair being taken advantage of by the government to justify Musharrafs hold on power, particularly in front of Western governments. What I want my Muslin and nonMuslims readers to know is that the roots of this affair and the roots of extremism in Pakistan/Afghanistan are directly tied to the Cold War. Billions in arms were sent in by the Russians, American, Saudis, and the Pakistan Government. Although I believe that war was justified and that the Russians had no right to invade Afghanistan no one took responsibility for the implications of the conflict. Both countries were left scarred from the war with armed groups, some of them indoctrinated in some extremist ideologies (yes the CIA and Saudis had a hand here) which were used to help in the war effort. If the countries which benefited from this war had helped to rebuild and strengthen these nations I am sure we would not be seeing such conflicts today.

    Allah Knows Best, I have written this to the best of my knowledge.
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