school of thought

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by payi, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. payi
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    payi New Member

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    As a new muslim, i dont know what do choose. there are 4 sisters at the masjid teaching the Madhhabs(each Apa teaches a different one).....but as a new muslim it is confusing, i dont know what to choose.
    its not like if there was JUST ONE SISTER TEACHING ONLY ONE then i will just join in.....
    so right now im confused.
    some fiqhs dont have enough info on the net. or maybe because i am not googling in arabic?

    so lets us say i choose a school of thought of my choice, and follow it, how diffrent will i be from the rest of people following the other thoughts? surely ISLAM is about unity, what is with the division?

    Please do not get me wrong, but i just don't know what is the differences that will make a Muslim call himself or herself ""hanbali" "maliki" "shafi" "hanafi"...surely we not in need for the differences? i need clearance :tti_sister:
    id like to know more, so that i can understand better.

    Salam AlaiKum
  2. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Assalaamu `alaykum

    The different schools of thought are there because the evidences in terms of 'Islamic law' was understood in slightly different ways. Generally, these differences are only in the furoo` (branches) of islamic jurisprudence and not the Asl (foundation) of Islamic jurisprudence. For example, should a person when going to prostrate- is it better to place the knees first or the hands first? Issues like this. They do not differ over the fundamentals... so you won't have one of them saying that the fajar prayer (morning prayer) is 2 units and another school saying it is 3 units. (Let me know if you want me to explain this with a proper example)

    Based on the above, it is permissible for a muslim to study one of the madh-habs (schools of thought) and in order to progress in his islamic knowledge. Generally, the books that focus on one school of thought are very structured and are made easy for the students to go through- as long as the teacher can teach it. In brief, if a person was to study a school of thought- he calls himself a muslim as this is the name given by Allaah.

    The area where muslims begin to deviate is in terms of Creed. The creed of the Prophet :saw2:, the sahaabah, the next generation and the generation after- were upon one Creed and this was the pure creed that was taught by Allaah from above the heavens. Divisions arose when people started understanding islamic Creed from a hellenistic perspective. The Imaams of all the 4 schools of thought were upon one creed- the Creed of the Prophets, the Sahaabah and those who followed them in righteousness.

    In terms of picking one school of thought from the four- then may I ask what schools of thoughts are available? Is the Hanbali school of thought available for you to study?
  3. sclavus
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    sclavus Junior Member

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    Good sister, I want you to read this:

    From:The Prophet's Prayer described, written by Shaikh Muhammad Naasir-ud-Deen Al-Albaani.


    Do you want a solution? Read the introduction of the book:

    http://www.muslimconverts.com/e-books/The_Prophet's_Prayer_Described/index.htm



    Assalaamo alaykom.
  4. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Sister for the time being just study the essentials. We have to learn and recite Quran and we have to live in the way of the Sunna. We have an instructional manual. We have the lives of the Companions of the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, to emulate. And then other things will start to make sense.
  5. payi
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    payi New Member

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    Salam Walaikum sister

    i know my important basics such as INTRO TO ISLAM : Wudu,Salaah (i can recite about 10 Surahs of by heart الحمد لله)
    I am able to write and read Arabic now :mashallah: i do take my Quran courses and InshAllah before my First Ramandhan i will be able to recite 3/4 of the Holy Quran(of by heart with the translation) if not all InshAllah,
    To be honest my dream is to able to work hard on my Arabic Vocab and grammar so that i can read most Hadith in the Arabic version rather than in just in English.
    so things are way deeper than just the Holy Quran (i just realised it few weeks ago)....so i decided that i need to do learn fiqh, rules about menses,hajj, all of the important Ways of life etc......
    i was told by the sisters that the Fiqh defers dependning on "which scholar you follow...." she even mentioned that Salah,wudu etc differs among Madhhabs....
    so thats where i got confused:girl3:
  6. Hard Rock Moslem
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    Hard Rock Moslem I'm your brother

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    Assalamu'alaikum sister,

    Pardon me if my advise is not convincing to you.

    I share my own experience. In my first year of reversion, I attended religious classes with the Islamic dept every weekend. For the first year, the ustaz never talked about mazhab, his focus was on tawheed and little bit on salat, fasting etc. More focus was on tawheed. Today I can understand why, I was beginner and it is too demanding too understand such a complex issue... and yes I could be confused just like you. My advise is, first thing you need to understand the concept of God in Islam. This will increase your imaan and taqwa. My teacher was good, he not only spoke about Islam he also taught me the concept of God in various religions. It was when I was fully convinced that I chose the right religion. Do not worry too much about which school of thought to follow, learn the basics, about salat, fasting, Quran study etc. As you are learning, follow your teachers mazhab first. Later you will understand more complex matters in Islam inshAllah.
  7. payi
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    payi New Member

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    Salam Walaikum brother

    there are 4(diferent madhhabs) Aapa at the masjid, we have the basics you are referring to from a lady who that ONLY does basics. now like i said at the top i would love to further my knowledge but im told to choose a madhhab, if there was only one madhab in the masjid FOR SURE I WILL JUST FOLLOW IT and make my choice as i go along but now i feel like im put at the edge (im grateful they accomodate all Madhhabs but a a new muslim surely thats a bit tricky) because i would feel like im blind-following if i choose one.
    Allah (SWT) is my main focus, i want to serve and please him always and this is why i want to know more so i can do the right thing at all times(what is actions that are harram,makroo,wajib etc....) and i feel that is very important part for me to give total submission to ALLAH (SWT) but putting four important and Well respected Imaams(RA) of our times on the table and to pick one is just not an easy thing. the basics about the 4 important part of the pillar i have tried to master it, but like you mention fasting, i was told the rules of women in fasting time is not the same for all madhabbs. etc....

    anyway ive decided to do some online researching and inchAllah ill see what i am comfotable following

    Ps...what bothers me is if they are all right then surely, there is no need for the division right?
  8. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    It is not a division in thought.

    We have roses. We all know a rose is a rose. But they come in different shades and the fragrance varies. Each rose will tell you it is a rose. Each rose will band together to outshine all other flowers for the Love of Allah.
  9. payi
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    payi New Member

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    Salam Walaikum Aapa
    so does that mean any madhhab is ok to follow?
  10. muslim56
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    :salam2:

    The catch in this topic is that you will find some people saying I am a Shafi'ee and all the rest of the Madhabs are misguided. You will also find some following their Madhabs so blindly like that to them anyone not following their Madhab is a Kaafir. Some people though, and this made me laugh, say in Salah I am a Hanbalee but in Zakat I am Hanafi'ee.

    My point here is that following the Madhabs can be a serious question. The best for anyone wanting to learn Fiqh is to take from these Madhabs what Allah and his Messenger(PBUH) said and confirmed and to leave anything that contradicts the Quran and the Sunnah. Most of the major scholars rejected Taqleed (blind following) even the Imams of the Madhabs themselves. So I advise you not to stick with any Madhab expect the Madhab of the Prophet(PBUH).
  11. strive-may-i
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    strive-may-i Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    Go to each one, pose them this question and tell them your difficulty. Each of the teachers (Apa's) should answer similar to how brother Tariq and Aapa presented here. The closer the persons answer is to what you have seen her, the more knowledgeable that teacher is.What you need right now is good teacher, any Madhab would be fine. Mind you its not a division, only the fanboys divide and spread hatred/dislike.
    So If I were you, I would choose the teacher whose action matches the words more closely, and is very knowledgeable. You can choose to follow the madhab, that the majority of muslims in your region follow, that works out easier for you. But be wary of the oral practices,. A person who properly understands and practices, following one of 4 with piety and faith, will surely meet the goal of pleasing Allah

    May Almighty broaden our minds in deeni matters, guiding us to pick the good and root it deep in our hearts... Ameen!
  12. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

    Yes it is fine. It is permissible for a layman to do taqleed of any imaam he wants- as long as he trusts his imaam's knowledge, piety.

    Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

    Sorry to be blunt but the bit in bold sounds very ignorant. I really advise brothers and sisters to speak with knowledge.

    Can you tell me who this 'majority' of scholars are, that rejected Taqleed? In fact it was a very very small minority who rejected Taqleed completely- including the laymen being prohibited from doing taqleed and this view was rejected by the vast majority.

    To make it brief folks... General muslims do NOT have the tools to do ijtihaad. Ijtihaad is when a one is able to derive rulings. Thus, they have to resort to taqleed. For a person to be able to do ijtihaad, he must be very strong in the Arabic languange (which includes mastering nahw, sarf, balaaghah, mantiq etc.), he must have very strong knowledge of usool al-Fiqh, he must have very strong knowledge of Mustalah al-hadeeth, strong knowledge of the Qur'aan, Sunnah & Ijmaa`etc. How can a person even tell one opinion is not correct, because it is based on a weak narration... and this person does not even know how to check the authenticity of a chain of narration. As for the layman he does is only able to taqleed and not do ijtihaad and what is upon him is what Allaah commanded him to do:

    فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لا تَعْلَمُونَ

    "Then ask the People of Knowledge if you do not know" (Soorah al-Nahl: 43)

    Following is something I posted in another thread, which I believe is relevant:

    Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan categorized people into four categories and the last category is that of the general Muslim (laymen, i.e. all of us)... and he said:

    The above in essence is 'Taqleed'. In a fatwa of the Lajnah al-Daa'imah (Signed by Shaykh Ibn Baaz, Sh. `Abdul Razzaaq al-`Afeefee, Sh. Ibn Ghudayaan etc.), one of the points mentioned was:

    Here is the link to the original fatwa: http://www.alifta.com/Fatawa/FatawaDetails.aspx?View=Page&PageID=1377&PageNo=1&BookID=3

    2) Following one of the four madh-habs is permissible and in fact if a person wants to tread a path in seeking knowledge- then it is advised for him to study books from one particular madh-hab and build up on it untill he becomes a strong student of knowledge or scholar. This was the path that was taken by nearly all the scholars of the past and present. For example, if one was to even see the books that Ibn al-`Uthaymeen studied, teaches and the teachers he studied under- they will know that he was a Hanabli who reached the level of ijtihaad after mastering the madh-hab.

    3) There is the other extreme where people obligate laymen to do taqleed of one of the 4 madh-habs. This is not correct, as the according to the majority of scholars... the layman has NO Madh-hab and he just follows whatever scholar he finds trustworthy to follow and he follows them.

    4) No one here can claim that they are following the most correct opinion in an issue and no one should ever think that they are able to determine what is the strongest opinion by reading a few fataawa in english. Rather, a person is blind following a scholar, and it is according to THAT specific scholar that such and such is the strongest opinion and not according to YOU. Which essentially means you are blind following him.

    So in conclusion, the layman just does taqleed of a scholar he finds to be trustworthy and follows him. If he finds the fatwa of another scholar whom he trusts more in a specific field (for example: Fiqh), then he can choose to do taqleed off him, if he wishes.
  13. Mabsoot
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  14. payi
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    WOOOW!!! Masha Allah. I have found clarity. this makes total sense!
  15. muslim56
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    :salam2:

    When I said Taqleed, what I meant was following the Imam you follow blindly without clarifying what is right or wrong or relying on Taqleed in Fiqh matters . In this case scholars like Imam Ibn Qayyim, Imam Abu Haneefah, Imam Malik ibn Anas, Imam Shafiee, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Here is the proof:


    ibn al-Qayyim said,

    " And it is as Abu Umar (ibn Abdul Barr) said: Indeed, the people do not differ about the fact that knowledge is the realisation attained from proof, but without proof, it is only taqleed."

    ibn al-Qayyim said,

    "There are three sayings about the permissibility of giving fatwaa based upon taqleed:

    1) It is not permissible to give fatwaa based upon taqleed, because it is not knowledge; since issuing a fatwaa without knowledge is forbidden. This is the saying of most of the Hanbalee scholars and the majority of the Shaafi'iyyah.

    2) That it is permissible with regards to himself, but it is not permissible to give a fatwaa to others based upon taqleed.

    3) That it is permissible when there is a need for it, and there is no mujtahid scholar. And this is the most correct of the sayings and is what is acted upon."'

    Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, rahimahullaah, said:

    "And the four Imaams, may Allaah be pleased with them, all forbade the people from blindly following them in all that they may say; and this was an obligation upon them [to do]."


    Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) said:

    "When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab."

    [Ibn 'Aabideen in al-Haashiyah (1/63) and in his essay Rasm al-Mufti (1/4 from the Compilation of the Essays of Ibn 'Aabideen), Shaikh Saalih al-Fulaani in Eeqaaz al-Himam (p. 62) and others. Ibn 'Aabideen quoted from Sharh al-Hidaayah by Ibn al-Shahnah al-Kabeer, the teacher of Ibn al-Humaam]

    "It is haram (prohibited) for someone who does not know my evidence to give fatwaa (verdicts) on the basis of my words." Another narration adds, "... for we are mortals: we say one thing one day, and take it back the next day."

    [Ibn 'Abdul Barr in Al-Intiqaa' fi Fadaa'il ath-Thalaathah al-A'immah al-Fuqahaa' (p. 145), Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam al-Mooqi'een (2/309), Ibn 'Aabideen in his Footnoes on Al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq (6/293) and in Rasm al-Mufti (pp. 29, 32) & Sha'raani in Al-Meezaan (1/55) with the second narration. Similar narrations exist on the authority of Abu Haneefah's companions Zafar, Abu Yoosuf and 'Aafiyah ibn Yazeed; cf. Eeqaaz (p. 52). Ibn al-Qayyim firmly certified its authenticity on the authority of Abu Yoosuf in I'laam al-Mooqi'een (2/344).]

    "When I say something contradicting the Book of Allah the Exalted or what is narrated from the Messenger (saaws), then ignore my saying."

    [Al-Fulaani in Eeqaaz al-Himam (p. 50), tracing it to Imaam Muhammad and then saying, "This does not apply to the mujtahid, for he is not bound to their views anyway, but it applies to the muqallid."]


    Imaam Maalik ibn Anas (rahimahullaah) said:

    "Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it."

    [Ibn 'Abdul Barr in Jaami' Bayaan al-'Ilm (2/32), Ibn Hazm, quoting from the former in Usool al-Ahkaam (6/149), and similarly Al-Fulaani (p. 72)]


    Imaam Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah) said:

    "The sunnahs of the Messenger of Allah (saaws) reach, as well as escape from, every one of us. So whenever I voice my opinion, or formulate a principle, where something contrary to my view exists on the authority of the Messenger of Allah (saaws), then the correct view is what the Messenger of Allah (saaws) has said, and it is my view."

    [Related by Haakim with a continuous sanad up to Shaafi'i, as in Taareekh Dimashq of Ibn 'Asaakir (15/1/3), I'laam al-Mooqi'een (2/363, 364) & Eeqaaz (p. 100).]

    Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah) said:

    "Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took."

    [Fulaani (p. 113) & Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam (2/302).]

    "Do not copy your Deen from anyone of these, but whatever comes from the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions, take it; next are their Successors, where a man has a choice."

    "Following (ittibaa') means that a man follows what comes from the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions; after the Successors, he has a choice."

    [Abu Daawood in Masaa'il of Imaam Ahmad (pp. 276-7)]

    "The opinion of Awzaa'i, the opinion of Maalik, the opinion of Abu Haneefah: all of it is opinion, and it is all equal in my eyes. However, the proof is in the narrations (from the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions)."

    [Ibn `Abdul Barr in Jaami' Bayaan al-'Ilm (2/149).]

    "Whoever rejects a statement of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) is on the brink of destruction."

    [Ibn al-Jawzi (p. 182)2)]

    :salam2:
  16. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

    And what is wrong in 'blindly' following them without clarifying what is wrong and what is right? After all, how can a lay man distinguish between an authentic narration and a weak narration except by trusting and blindly following the gradings of the scholars of that narration. Let alone judge, if the opinion of the scholar is wrong.

    Okay, let us analyze your 'proof' inshaa'Allaah :- )


    Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah is talking about the one who is 'able to give fataawa' not a layman. How can a layman give fatwa, when he does not even know arabic to understand the Qur'aan and Sunnah? He doesn't even know if a narration is authentic, let alone give a ruling


    Imaam Abu Haneefah's statements are referring to his students and those who have the ability to study the hanafi fiqh in-depth. The layman is not even able to research the opinions of Abu Haneefah in-depth in the first place, let alone the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

    Again, my point... how does the layman have the ability to look into the opinions of Imaam Maalik and the ability to look into the Qur'aan and Sunnah. He does not know the `Uloom of the Qur'aan, tafseer of the Qur'aan, he does not mustalah al-hadeeth... how will he judge between the statements of Imaam Maalik?

    And as I say over and over again, how will a person even judge a narration to be authentic? He will have to do 'taqleed' to believe a narration is authentic.

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