The Methodology of the Salaf Concerning Ijtihad and Taqlid

[Harris Hammam]

Thanks, so Taqleed is a necessity not mandatory rite?

There's no contradiction between something being a necessity and being mandatory.

One is about to die out of hunger and the only food the person has is dead meat. It is both a necessity for the person to get rid of hunger and mandatory for the person to preserve life.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

I aplogogize if I am coming across as rude. Understand, from an objective point of view, as a reader of this thread, a new member comes on and he is given respect, I have only read his views on this thread, I have a right to ask him by what circumstances did you arrive at your decisions.

It was not rude. The brother was honest. And once again I asked becuase I was unfamiliar with him yet, there are members who have similar thoughts who were in total agreement with him and had familiarity with him.

I asked.

 

[finding light]

Asalamualykum,

Aapa who are you talking about? Brother HH or Brother Asif1? Who is giving who respect here?
Your question is vague...

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,


In no manner am I trying to be rude. I was questioning why several members of this forum had so easily and readily accepted answers of Brother HH on a thread that questions blind following. I was wondering what I had missed. I could not make the connection of taking his words as the truth. I asked the brother and he told us that he is not a scholar but a layman. It came out that he is a member of anther forum and known to many here but not all.

From the relationship style the members here have conceded to a student/master role. It is funny to see the young sisters humble themselves to this man...on a thread on blind following...

Anyhow, I am done. Thanks

 

[user expired!]

:salam2:,

Aapa i think Brother Harris Hammam is more knowledgeable then he has portrayed himself, it is unfortunate that in todays society humbleness is seen as weakness yet actually it is an amazing strength.

Brother Harris Hammam is a reputable Da'ee from the Uk, he graduated from a prestigious Islamic University, prior to that he was schooled in a reputable Islamic institute in the UK.

And you comments seemed quite rude 'you have read one book and use the internet heavily' hhmm, seems to be quite insulting for a person who has spent most of his life spending his time learning the deen from not just books but from scholars.

ps Maybe he is well respected by many here because people might know something that you're ignorant about?

 

[Harris Hammam]

Wassalam. But allow me to clarify a few things:

I could not make the connection of taking his words as the truth.

Instead of saying that I provide been providing 'the truth' (which I never aim to monopolise; you can quite clearly see my accommodative approach), what has been provided, however, to the best of my knowledge, are satisfactory, pragmatic answers in light of scholarship.

I asked the brother and he told us that he is not a scholar but a layman.

I never said I'm a layman either. If I was a layman, I wouldn't be even talking on the subject. I would have been copying-pasting without analysis.

From the relationship style the members here have conceded to a student/master role. It is funny to see the young sisters humble themselves to this man...on a thread on blind following...

I don't like the tone of your remark, sister. Why do you have a problem when people ('young sisters', are you joking?) ask me questions, and I answer with the Tawfeeq of Allah?

By Allah, my intention is not to 'school' people; rather it is to promote unity and tolerance through a shared understanding of a petty issue (Taqleed) that continues to divide the Ummah. I hate to think that people are dividing themselves up because of ignorance in this matter.

Otherwise, it is just like any other issue in Fiqh and Usool.

I also don't like you constantly referring to Taqleed as 'blind following', as if it was a criticism. Just say 'following', for God sake. You don't need to emphasise to laymen that they are 'blindly following'. Why are you rubbing salt in the wounds for no reason?

A man is forced to eat dead meat as he has no other choice - would you constantly badger him by saying 'You are eating Haram meat', making him feel bad?

You seem to be on one extreme of Taqleed, making people feel bad about it. The other extreme is where people feel proud about doing Taqleed (comparable to a person forced to eating dead meat feeling proud about it). I think it is quite clear what the two extremes in Taqleed are all about.

If you have nothing productive to say, kindly refrain from saying anything. Raise you objections against the content of the posts, no problem.

 

[ditta]

As far as Taqleed in Aqeedah goes, Sheikh al-Shathri in his book on Taqleed:
http://ia600408.us.archive.org/15/items/waq6213/6213.pdf
covers these issues in brief from pages 39 to 112. The topics are:


- Taqleed (i.e. accepting a scholar's statement) in monotheism (Tawheed)
He says the the overwhelming majority of Sunni scholars said that Taqleed is Haram in this, i.e. he must believe in this out of conviction, not by merely following a a scholar or because someone told him so.


- Taqleed in considering the Message of the Prophet to be correct
He says that this is like the first hence it is Haram to do Taqleed in this. I guess this and the above are the Kalimah, [FONT=&quot]لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله[/FONT] - one must believe in the meanings of this out of self-conviction and acceptance of the evidence (called Ittiba`, because it is clear-cut, not Ijtihad), not out of Taqleed.


- Taqleed in the [other specific] fundamentals of the religion [at a granular level], like the Sifat of Allah, destiny, etc.
He says that it appears that it is permissible to do Taqleed of a scholar in these items, because these are granular pieces of information and in that sense resemble like plain Fiqh (Furoo`) insofar as the layman is concerned.


- Taqleed in the pillars of Islam (i.e. those items of practice in the faith which are known by necessity, there is no doubt about them, like the necessity of Salah and fasting)
Taqleed is Haram in this. One must believe that these are established in the Deen of Allah without having to resort to a scholar's verdict (Taqleed) to actually believe. The knowledge of a scholar and a layman in the necessity of these things - like Salah and fasting - is equal.


- Taqleed in Usool 'l-Fiqh
(This is mainly a rule for scholars and Mujtahids, whether they are allowed to do Taqleed of other scholars in this subject or not; nothing to do with laymen)


- Taqleed in the Furoo` (standard Fiqh)
After mentioning the two opinion, he brings the evidences for both and concludes that the opinion of the overwhelming is that Taqleed is permissible (i.e. not Haram) for people who have no knowledge, i.e. it is not necessary that they go out of their way to do Ijtihad and go searching for evidence.


- Taqleed in innovations
He says that if he is in a place where there is innovation and he has no idea of the true Sunnah, then he would be excused and would not be sinning. However, if he is in a place where people oppose that innovation, he should assess the situation and ask the trustworthy scholars about it. (I add that if he is still confused about it, then he would be excused).


Now these are not hard categories, there might be a bit of overlap between each other, but this is just to start a person off in understanding the matter.

As-salaamu'Alaykum,

This was a good post. I have been following this thread and I think there was confusion with regards to blind following in aqeedah and fiqh (in the initial part of this discussion). I say this because often (in my community anyway) there is blind following in both and there is no distinction (or the people are unable to make the distinction which results in them following a scholar despite such a person, for example, calling upon other than Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala). Is this type of following detested?).

I want to confirm if my understanding is correct:

a) There is no blind following in matters of Aqeedah. However saying that, there is an element of following in that I trust Imam Bukhari, for example, in his grading of a hadeeth pertaining to a matter in aqeedah.

b) There is following with regards to matters of jurisprudence.

In rather a simplistic outlook, is this correct? (I have something else linked to this but I wanted to confirm if my understanding is correct).

 

[Harris Hammam]

Wassalam

This was a good post. I have been following this thread and I think there was confusion with regards to blind following in aqeedah and fiqh (in the initial part of this discussion). I say this because often (in my community anyway) there is blind following in both and there is no distinction (or the people are unable to make the distinction which results in them following a scholar despite such a person, for example, calling upon other than Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala). Is this type of following detested?).

It is the scholars' responsibility to ensure the educate their laymen that their is no Taqleed in the really big aspects of belief.

That would be by actively teaching them and getting them out of ignorance about these matters, starting from the top issues. It doesn't mean that scholars simply tell laymen 'Don't do Taqleed'. Most laymen don't even know what term Taqleed is, even though they do it all the time.

I want to confirm if my understanding is correct:

a) There is no blind following in matters of Aqeedah. However saying that, there is an element of following in that I trust Imam Bukhari, for example, in his grading of a hadeeth pertaining to a matter in aqeedah.

Yes, in general. You may have noted though that there is no problem in granular aspects of Aqeedah. But Aqeedah starts from the very top, where there is no Taqleed. That is why we say there is no Taqleed in `Aqeedah as a principle.

b) There is following with regards to matters of jurisprudence.

Yes of course.

In rather a simplistic outlook, is this correct? (I have something else linked to this but I wanted to confirm if my understanding is correct).

Simplistic, yet correct.

 

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaykkum,

Brother Harris, Your posts have been very beneficial to me, Alhamdulilah. I have learnt new things. I have a doubt. Just to know the limits of the person who does taqleed.

For example, A person who is a layman himself teaches his child how to pray/ wudhu etc. And he usually "passes" on his Taqleed in fiqh to his children. This happens atleast in region where these things are not taught in a School or something. Or maybe teaching a new muslim, for instance. Is this something permissible? Because, you said "There is no commanding good and forbidding evil in fiqh".

And Because, Taqleed can be done only of a scholar, right?

Also, in cases, especially the region I come from, people say the intention out loud before the salah and the Imam encourages that. And there are people who hold the opinion that leaving off the beard is a "Sunnah" in the sense, cutting it is not Haraam/doesn't entail punishment in the Hereafter. Should I consider this as a valid difference of opinion and keep silent? Sometimes I wonder how practices which were never in any madhab or no scholar had the opinion, come into existence. If I were to tell them it is a bid`ah, it wouldn't work because I am a layman myself. And they do taqleed of their fathers and forefathers whom they consider more trustworthy than any of the unheard scholars.

Jazaakallahu khayran.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am not trying to be rude. Please forgive me. As I wrote earlier I was not aware of who you are. I was taken by the respect you hold. I was curious.

I am one who is open to seeking knowledge, trust me on that one. And I have sincerely appreciated that you have taken the time to respond.

Consider this as building trust.

You hit the nail on the head. Petty matters do divide the Muslims.

It is not that I have anything counterproductive. And I am not questioning unnecessarily. Think of me as the hungriest one to learn. Think of me as the one who does not have time to waste. Thus, I have to get to the essence in a very short time and I have to be sure of where I am getting my meat from. What is mistaken for rude is the person who is starving and is in need of nourishment of food; we do take knowledge with us to the hereafter and apply knowledge with deeds while we are here.

I pray this satisfies my stance. I wish to learn.

 

[Harris Hammam]

Wassalam

I have a doubt. Just to know the limits of the person who does taqleed.

For example, A person who is a layman himself teaches his child how to pray/ wudhu etc. And he usually "passes" on his Taqleed in fiqh to his children. This happens atleast in region where these things are not taught in a School or something. Or maybe teaching a new muslim, for instance. Is this something permissible? Because, you said "There is no commanding good and forbidding evil in fiqh".

And Because, Taqleed can be done only of a scholar, right?

For a layman to teach his child the laws of Wudu is not only within actually his rights, but is also his obligation. These aspects of Fiqh are basic fundamentals which everybody agrees to.

When I said that 'commanding good and forbidding evil does not cover Fiqh', it means arguing in matters of difference of opinion.

There are aspects of Fiqh that are agreed upon, like the necessity of teaching one's child, the obligation of Wudu and Salah, etc. All Muslims should know about these.

These basic matters of Fiqh do not require a scholar. Such day-to-day matters which all Muslims should know about can be passed on from parent to child, no problem. In fact, parents must be knowledgeable enough to pass these items on to their children, and it is part of the Islamic upbringing obligations upon all parents, which is the right of the child. Nobody says that children must be presented to a scholar for these basic fundamentals. It suffices that the child does Taqleed of the parents (this isn't really the Taqleed of Fiqh that everybody argues about; rather it is simply education of basic fundamentals, also known as Tarbiyah)

Also, in cases, especially the region I come from, people say the intention out loud before the salah and the Imam encourages that. And there are people who hold the opinion that leaving off the beard is a "Sunnah" in the sense, cutting it is not Haraam/doesn't entail punishment in the Hereafter. Should I consider this as a valid difference of opinion and keep silent? Sometimes I wonder how practices which were never in any madhab or no scholar had the opinion, come into existence. If I were to tell them it is a bid`ah, it wouldn't work because I am a layman myself. And they do taqleed of their fathers and forefathers whom they consider more trustworthy than any of the unheard scholars.

1. Nobody says saying the intention aloud is necessary. Many scholars say it is an innovation. Best to leave it out then and you'll be safe.

2. Beard - there is a valid difference of opinion in cutting beyond one fist length.

3. Sometimes opinions appear later on in the Madhhab because some scholar found a Hadith - authentic or otherwise - and it becomes famous in that school. Sometimes it is based on Takhreej - deriving a new ruling based preexisting rulings (or if the Imam was alive today, guesstimating what he would have said) - a Takhreej can be right or wrong.

4. One needs knowledge to say a practice is Bid`ah. If you don't have it, refrain from speaking out.

Allah knows better

 

[helpinghumanity]

Assalamo alaikum wa rahmatullah

Due to long weekend, alhamdolillah I was able to read about 1/4 of the replies and I must say
"Subhanallah what an excellent thread"


Carry on the conversation and inshallah I will try to catch up . Knowledge is like an ocean and all I know is a nano-sized (or even smaller) droplet of water and I feel proud in admitting it.

 

[ditta]

May Allah reward you with good for responding. With that confirmed, I have this question:

Is it permissible to follow a scholar in jurisprudential issues while his aqeedah is, based on one’s own deduction (i.e., an aspect that is clear to all), incorrect?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Respected Brother,

An issue is on the rise. What if the practice of the faith is stronger in the younger generation. The child is gaining more knowledge than the parent had. To put is directly..how is that handled delicately? The child has access to an Islamic educated environment that the parent did not have? That the world of the internet has opened an encyclopedic universe which was not available to the parent; the parent whose faith is very culturally laden.

 

[Harris Hammam]

May Allah reward you with good for responding. With that confirmed, I have this question:

Is it permissible to follow a scholar in jurisprudential issues while his aqeedah is, based on one’s own deduction (i.e., an aspect that is clear to all), incorrect?

Yes you can ask him, broadly speaking, as long as:
a) there is no conflict of interest for him with his Bid`ah (i.e. the matter in question doesn't support his Bid`ah),
b) his innovation is a mistake due to some honest doubt he may have, and he is not militantly stubborn on his Bid`ah despite being explained clearly (in which case he would become a standard Fasiq and normal sinner, who cannot be asked for a fatwa in any circumstance)

This permissibility of asking someone with mistakes in Aqeedah is based on another issue: the opinion of a Mujtahid who is a Mubtadi` must be taken into consideration for the building of consensus, i.e. as long as he doesn't agree with all other Mujtahids, Ijma` cannot not occur in that issue.

Many authentic narrators in the books of Hadith had some major flaws in Aqeedah, believe it or not. The recurring themes in some narrators are Qadari (denier of destiny), Khariji, Shi`ite (not like the Rafidis of today but a lighter form). Yet their Hadith is present in the Saheeh.

An issue is on the rise. What if the practice of the faith is stronger in the younger generation. The child is gaining more knowledge than the parent had. To put is directly..how is that handled delicately? The child has access to an Islamic educated environment that the parent did not have? That the world of the internet has opened an encyclopedic universe which was not available to the parent; the parent whose faith is very culturally laden.

Good observation. Is there a question here?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Yes, there certainly is.

How do we transmit without hurting feelings. We respect our elders and parents. How does the youth come home and say hey momma guess what I learned and the way we have been doing it is wrong?

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
my husband's parents were born into a far country,with no current water,no electricity,so there was no tv at all.internet it didn't exist at that time,but as I heard from both of them,they saw how their parent prayed everyday,how they took care of the family giving them what was in their possibilities and they now are old but patient.they passed throught many difficulties,but they always say "alhamdulillah",<what Allah gives to us is enough for us>.
now that 2 new generations of people have come(my husband and my children),believe me,there is that simplicity no more.ok,children know more than parents because of Internet,but they are more pride/arrogant/egoist and if they know the Words of Allah,they prefere to "slide" toward other matters(this is one of the prophecies of the ProphetSAWS,where new generations would arrive to forget what Shahada is...maybe just because of Internet and all the troubles it brings)

With these words,it's far from me to focus to someone of you,I'm expressing in general and by the thing I see around me,I largerly prefere when there was no internet.Not for me,but for my heirs.I fear for them that one day they'll forget their Deen,not because of them,but because of the bad inlfluences of mass media and the kuffar

 

[finding light]

Assalaam alaikum,

Yes, there certainly is.

How do we transmit without hurting feelings. We respect our elders and parents. How does the youth come home and say hey momma guess what I learned and the way we have been doing it is wrong?

Aslamualykum,

This is a very important question.... relevant to a lot of us I think....

 

[Harris Hammam]

How do we transmit without hurting feelings. We respect our elders and parents. How does the youth come home and say hey momma guess what I learned and the way we have been doing it is wrong?

This question is less about Taqleed and more to do with the methodology of Da`wah, coupled with one's conduct with parents.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution here. There are, however, some principles of Da`wah. One of these main principles is that it does not lead to a greater evil. I would assume that, almost always, one should not turn up at home and announce ' What we have been doing for all our lives has been wrong, and now this is the right way.'

There must be certain degree of pre-programming and 'setting up the path' before corrective tools can be administered.

One method is to talk about it indirectly first. Talk about the principles of Islam, the principles of right and wrong, give practical examples of these principals away from the wrong that parents may be doing, get them to accept those first, then move into the territory. Use your parent's very own sources of guidance/authorities in terms of personalities to get to them if possible.

I don't know - one has to find their own way, or get further guidance from a scholar/student close to his/her situation.

Also, it is important to assess the necessity and urgency of the situation. There is no point coming all guns blazing in petit matters. It is also important to know whether what they are doing is even wrong in the first place - sometimes it might be a matter of valid difference.

On top of all of this, we all know the rights of parents in Islam in terms of the children's conduct with them. We even know the rights of non-Muslim parents. Understanding the rights of non-Muslim parents may give one an idea about how one should approach one's Muslim's parents.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Completely off the topic but very relevant,

What is the role of the layman in asking the imam to discuss certain topics in a kuthba that are pertinent to the congregation? Is that not a good place to start?