The Methodology of the Salaf Concerning Ijtihad and Taqlid

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by Aziboy, May 16, 2012.

  1. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Asif if you believe that there has been 'sensible' questions posed and HH did not answer, then could you please list those questions in shaa' Allaah.
  2. Abu Hurairah
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    Al-Salamu 'alaykum,

    I have some questions for Abu Mus'ab Akhari if you are willing to answer.

    1) Are you the same Abu Mus'ab who is speaking in these videos?

    2) What do you say about Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin when he used the word 'taqleed'?

    3) What do you say about Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin when he obliged it on the laymen?

    I hope these can be answered by Abu Mus'ab Akhari.
  3. Thauban
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    Thauban Junior Member

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    Very childish and immature to call somebody to be banned. Why don't you come back when you grow up a bit instead?
  4. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Because of your ad hominem attacks against the scholars of Islam, acting as if they got it all wrong and you are here to inform us about the Haqq. Minnows who don't understand Arabic teaching the scholars of Islam, the heirs of the Prophets!


    The great `Izz bin `Abd 'l-Salam, the Shafi`i scholar (died 660 A.H.) who was responsible for recruiting the Muslim rulers to fight the Mongolian Tatars, said in his Qawa`id, 2/274:
    http://ia700307.us.archive.org/20/items/qamaqama/qama2.pdf
    ويستثنى من ذلك العامة فإن وظيفتهم التقليد لعجزهم عن التوصل إلى معرفة الأحكام بالاجتهاد، بخلاف المجتهد فإنه قادر على النظر المؤدي إلى الحكم
    The layman are excluded from that [i.e. looking directly into evidences for practice], as their job is Taqleed as they are unable to reach the understanding of rulings via Ijtihad, which is not the case for a Mujtahid as he is able to do analysis that leads to [the extraction of] the ruling.


    I was just reading this book and thought I'd post it here for benefit.

    Anybody unaware of his status should look into his biography.
  5. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Can't be Akkari. It must be an Akkari wannabe.

    Akkari wouldn't make such blunders in spelling and in Arabic, and disrespect of the scholars, like our friend Akhari here has done.
  6. Abu Hurairah
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    Abu Hurairah Extinct

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    Question is, why is this guy using the name of Wajdi Akkari to gain some credibility when the reality probably is that Wajdi is free from his anomalous opinion?

    What really confused me is everything Mazhara came out with only to then link to Mufti Sajjad's writings on taqlid which is a more stricter/restricted position than ours!
  7. Asja
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    Asja Pearl of Islaam

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    Assalamu allaicumu wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

    Can you please dear brother answer on well mannered question of brother Asif? It is not from Islam to ignore questions or help from other Muslims Alhamdulillah.

    And please brother stop offending and insulting brother Asif because that is not from Islam and Islamic teachings and manners. He is a Muslim Alhamdulilah and you are Muslim too, so you should act like one.

    May Allah guide us all.Amen ya Rabby

    :wasalam:
  8. Abu Hurairah
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    Abu Hurairah Extinct

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    So what is the problem you have exactly? Help me understand.

    I use 'taqleed' the same way you used 'taqleed' in your above comment, the same way thousands of scholars have - istilahan, not shar'an.

    Two questions - one unanswered from before:

    1) What do you say about Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin's usage of the word 'taqleed'?

    2) Why do you have a problem with the word 'taqleed' but not 'tajweed'?

    That was initially Harris' question and you answering it would clear a lot of things up so we can move on, inshaAllah.
  9. Al-Kashmiri
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    Al-Kashmiri Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    As-salaamu` alaykum

    Brother, with all due respect, Harris corrected you as you spoke at length of fiqhi issues and demonstrated severe grammatical errors in your Arabic. That one's extent of knowledge of Islam rests upon their command of Arabic as is known. `Umar himself use to whip people for errors they made in Arabic. It is neither girly or immature to point at one who speaks on Islamic knowledge at length with grammatical mistakes.

    Why he'd correct someone who doesn't do that and who hasn't been harsh with him puzzles me (I'm not denying his harshness towards you).

    Second, Asif is a Muslim however Harris is a Hanafi? ... Are you alluding takfeer?

    Now I say this to all in the thread and not just you - every user and even mod.... On these forums, we deal with each other in a rather civil fashion. Can we please keep it that way. If anything will lead to the closure of this thread it will be the continual use of inappropriate language towards others. Many of the participants of this thread are new - well to me you're new enough, so please observe a higher etiquette as is seen on countless other threads when dealing with opponents.

    Perhaps the only reason I haven't locked this thread off yet is because I too want to see where this ends as I've noticed recurring patterns in this thread and hope to see some of the erroneous beliefs addressed.

    If in the above that I quoted, I've failed to note anything equal in nature from your opponents (i.e. suggesting takfeer) than I apologise.
  10. Abu Hurairah
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    Abu Hurairah Extinct

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    Who has restricted them to one madhhab?

    We'll get to 'tahqiq' later, inshaAllah.


    I can't work out an answer suitable for the question from these words.
    The question is:
    1) What do you say about Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin's usage of the word 'taqleed'?
    As a suggestion, you may want to start with the words, 'I believe Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin's usage of the word 'taqleed' is ...'
    You have a problem when we use the word taqleed yet you used it too and Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin uses it.

    Now who's making assumptions? I believe you don't understand the Qur'an as it was revealed.
    Understanding Qur'an properly needs Arabic language - which you don't have, even for 'tahqiq'.
    Taqleed does not require Arabic language which suits you perfectly.
    So they are clearly not the same thing. Yet you did not answer my question brother.

    1) What do you say about Sh. Ibn 'Uthaymin's usage of the word 'taqleed'?

    2) Why do you have a problem with the word 'taqleed' but not 'tajweed'?
  11. Abu Hurairah
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    Abu Hurairah Extinct

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    ولا يجوز بيع مطعوم - مكيل أو موزون - بجنسه إلا مثالاً بمثل.
    ولا يجوز بيع مكيل من ذلك بشئ من جنسه وزنًا ولا موزون كيلاً.
    وإن اختلف الجنسان جاز بيعه كيف شاء يدًا بيد، ولم يجز النسأ فيه.


    Please make 'tahqiq' of these masa'il.
  12. Asif1
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    Asif1 Banned

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    Why are you promoting the deoband here? where are the answers bro.

    Did you know how the foundation of deoband was established? did you know that according to deobandis, prophet Muhammad [saw] came and ask them to construct this madrassa [nauzbillah]?

    Do you know, Qaseem Nanotwi met our prophet in Deoband while prophet [saw] crosschecked the accounts and every book keeping things? astagfirullah.

    Do you know who is Haji Imdadullah muhajir makki?

    Do you know what is WAHADAT AL WAJOOD?

    Do you know Haji Imdadullah muhajir makki's Aqeedah on WAHADAT AL WAJOOD?

    you must be knowing Ashraf ali thanwi at least, or maulana zakaria the writer of fazaail-e-amaal, have you done enough research of his book? did you know how it insults ALLAH and his Messenger? [nauzbillah]

    We sat with these very people and we know how clever are they in turning the tables around. I am an ex-deobandi for ur kind info.

    If the deobandis would have been the people of Touhid than the matter would have solved way back.

    Get me answers at least for whatever I wrote above.

    May ALLAH guides and protect us all..... Ameen
  13. Asif1
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    Asif1 Banned

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    You know brother harris, you are saying that Taqleed is Mandatory, please fear ALLAH.

    Its ALLAH [swt] who inform us through his Messengers as to what is Fard, sunnah, wajib and about our way of life. We call it a SHARI'A.

    And if anyone later on makes things mandatory for which ALLAH [swt] has not given permission and making additions to the SHARI'A, then those people are Mushrik coz they did Shirk in the SHARI'A of ALLAH [swt].

    And the views of the People of Shirk and Bida'h will always contradict with the people of Tawhid.

    These are the limits set by Allah: those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to paradise, in which rivers flow, to live therein forever, and that is the Great Achievement. But the ones who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be cast to Hellfire to live therein forever, and they shall have a humiliating punishment. [4:13-14]

    Fear ALLAH my dear brothers and sisters
  14. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    I think it has become quite clear that Muslim means something else and Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, Hanbali (which are merely Fiqhi affiliations) are something else according to Asif/Aziboy/Hammy/Akhari/whoever.

    In the past 1000 years, who's left then?

    It is on this basis that I suggest that these folks are banned. Imagine a new Muslims looking at these idiots who are prepared to humiliate all the scholars of Islam just to appease their own desire, non-comprehension and misguided opinion - what do you think would happen to such new Muslims! And what impression of Islam does that give?

    Each religion - truthful or otherwise - is carried by its institution of scholars. According to these dangerous individuals, it was destroyed by the same institution!

    Individuals like these are a real problem in Pakistan. They are a very big Fitnah there. I thank Allah that at least this problem is not global. Problem is that ignorance has spilled on to the Internet.

    This is actually my first experience in discussing with these 'Ahle Hadees'. I feel the discussion has gone pretty well.
  15. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    And the way most Deobandis in the Sub-Continent are dealing with the problem only exacerbates it!

    Both extremism types boil down to Jahl - ignorance.
  16. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    I hate to think that this thread should digress into moderation policy, rather than the issue of Taqleed (and Ijtihad, and related matters).

    I feel the second this thread is ever locked will not help anybody. This academic matter requires closure. I feel the discussion has been beneficial - for myself primarily out of all people.
  17. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Regarding the Quranic verses that condemn Ikhtilaf (difference), it means differing with the Prophets peace be upon them. These verses include:
    واعتصموا بحبل الله جميعا ولا تفرقوا (Aal `Imran)
    and a few verses later
    ولا تكونوا كالذين تفرقوا واختلفوا من بعد ما جاءهم البينات
    and other verses.

    These verses were not revealed to condemn valid differences of opinion in the Fiqhi legal issues.

    Imam al-Munawi, author of Fayd 'l-Qadeer (1/210), a Shafi`i scholar based in Cairo who died in 1031 A.H., severely condemned those people who use those verses to condemn the phenomenon of valid difference of opinion in Islamic law. He said:

    This [malpractice of misappropriating these Quranic verses] is a secretive plot that emerged from those whose hearts are sick. A number of scholars, like Ibn 'l-`Arabi and others, took to the task of refuting such people. [The scholars said that Allah] only condemned - as a countermeasure - the obsession in differing with the Messengers, as the Hadith indicates, "The only thing that destroyed those before you was the obsession in differing with their Prophets". As for this Ummah, Allah's refuge is sought from [the mere idea] that it is infiltrated by scholars who differ [with the Prophets], because [Allah] threatened those who differ [with the Prophets] with a great punishment.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    P.S. we saw plenty of this 'verse-slinging' happening on the first page of this thread, may Allah guide him.
  19. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Completely off-topic post Akhari, though this deserves highlighting:
    You should have added a few more 'd's just for emphasis.


    which we never said. I think you are more close to these Deobandi extremists in your extremism. Extremism feeds extremism.


    Your spelling is atrocious. Don't you feel any shame? I'm feeling embarrassed highlighting these for you.


    1. Not all types of Tawassul are Haram. Some are differed upon. Some are permissible.
    2. It doesn't mean intercession. Shafa`ah means intercession.
  20. azad.ahmed
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    azad.ahmed Junior Member

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