The Methodology of the Salaf Concerning Ijtihad and Taqlid

[Aapa]

Assalaam walailkum,

All humans should fear Allah subhana wa taala. The beauty of Islam is the simplicity of the message. We are not all scholars but we are all trying to strive to please Allah.

I do not need an additional headache to complicate my life. I need food for my soul. I need protection at all times. I remain on this website to help me gain strenght to facilitate the growth of my faith; the recognition of my total dependence on Allah subhana wa taala.

Where in this thread was the cry for pleasing Allah subhana wa taala in the face of adversity.Where was there fear? You see if the brothers were married and to more than one wife they would know the meaning of fearing Allah.

Everyone take a cold shower and make salat.

As for the sisters...I think later today I will post in the sisters section...get ready sisters..we are all going to eat humble pie that I am about to bake.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Respected sister, can I ask what am I 'equally responsible' for? And Why?

I can't recall insulting anyone on this thread and I re-read all my posts in order to clarify. Perhaps I am blind to my own mistakes.... so I would appreciate if you could point it out

Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baraakaatuh.

I know that question is not directed to me but I think you did insult brother hammy by sharing his PM in public and questioning him about it. Private message should stay private. He tried to be nice once upon a time, and given this treatment he'll be careful never to be nice, ever. I may be wrong. It may have taught him to stick to what he apologised for. I hope it has, but given our human nature and ego, this usually isn't the case.

Not really, I hardly contributed to this thread. Ma shaa'Allaah HH, posted a lot of beneficial posts that I benefitted from (personally) and sister Samiha as well. Less than half way through this thread, I stopped participating.

She mentioned the four of you, I said two weren't responsible for the vile bit i.e yourself and brother Haris Hammam. Besides, before brother HH came to outclass the rest of you, you were only member who was able to post a refutation apart from sister Samiha.

 

[finding light]

You see if the brothers were married and to more than one wife they would know the meaning of fearing Allah.

And there it is Brothers and Sisters!!! WHOOHOOO!!
**loud applause**:jumpclap:

 

[samiha]

:salam2:

Sometimes I can't believe this forum subhanAllah.

Do you support truth or you do simply support people? I must ask honestly. I don't like how this thread is getting side-tracked, but for some to say that all those involved did not fear Allah, or that there was no benefit to this, I am quite shocked.

These are principles in Islam - it is apparent that it may be difficult to understand some of these principles for some of us, and this is the purpose of being on forums isnt it? To learn and gain and improve in our knowledge. Must we always wallow in food for the soul and social gathering settings ...and call this a forum for removing misconceptions?

Something I've noticed on TTI is that because of this - I've often seen a lack of true improvement in us. This forum is just a means, YOU'RE now meant to go out there, learn Arabic, tackle greater issues, not just play word games all the time or share recipes. Seek a higher goal than that truly.

And see past the argument to the point we've reached, and the topic discussed. If you have disagreements with the topic - please bring them here, if you're upset with the banning and feel that because I havent been active I don't have the right - bring it up with the Admin.

But if these issues were not tackled here, they would only be brought up again and again, so I leave it as it is, the good, bad and ugly - and sometimes learning isn't so straightfoward, and sometimes you'll come across issues like this, but if you seek to gain, you will surely find it.

And wallahi, at least personally I have gained.

 

[thariq2005]

Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baraakaatuh.

I know that question is not directed to me but I think you did insult brother hammy by sharing his PM in public and questioning him about it. Private message should stay private. He tried to be nice once upon a time, and given this treatment he'll be careful never to be nice, ever. I may be wrong. It may have taught him to stick to what he apologised for. I hope it has, but given our human nature and ego, this usually isn't the case.

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

He sent me a private message because the thread we were discussing in was closed.

There was nothing 'private' in the actual message. He apologized, which should be appreciated. But he went back on his own apology which needs to be shown to him, and thus I posted his PM here. He sent me other PM's, which I didn't share here.

He insulted me numerous times on the previous thread and I allowed him to insult me with freedom, untill sister Fajr decided to close that thread- JazaahAllaahu khayraa. Then, he PM'd me for some odd reason and apologized to me. Then, he started insulting me again on this thread. And as Imaam al-Bukharee narrated on the authority of Abu Hurayrah, that the Prophet :saw2: said:

لاَ يُلْدَغُ الْمُؤْمِنُ مِنْ جُحْرٍ وَاحِدٍ مَرَّتَيْنِ
"A believer is not stung twice (by something) out of one and the same hole."

He insulted me and then apologized and this was accepted from him. I am not going to let him sting me one more time, by him insulting me and then later apologizing to me again.

Besides, if I had insulted him- that would mean me degrading him by calling him offensive names.

 

[thariq2005]

And wallahi, at least personally I have gained.

I concur.

I personally benefitted and learnt a lot from the posts by HH and the different definitions he posted and that the Mu`tazilah were the first to prohibit Taqleed in Furoo`. Jazaahullaahu khayraa

 

[Asja]

Respected sister, can I ask what am I 'equally responsible' for? And Why?

I can't recall insulting anyone on this thread and I re-read all my posts in order to clarify. Perhaps I am blind to my own mistakes.... so I would appreciate if you could point it out

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

I do not wish to mention anything specific for what you dear brother or any other members who took participtation in this thread said, because I do not think that is nice to point out mistakes of others publicly Alhamdulillah. The most just is to say in general Alhmadulillah,where everyone holds thier responsablity and in every disscussion all sides must be, maybe not equaily, but still responsable for thier words and actions.

And Allah knows the best.

May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong and all of us.Ameen summa Ameen

 

[thariq2005]

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

I do not wish to mention anything specific for what you dear brother or any other members who took participtation in this thread said, because I do not think that is nice to point out mistakes of others publicly Alhamdulillah. The most just is to say in general Alhmadulillah,where everyone holds thier responsablity and in every disscussion all sides must be, maybe not equaily, but still responsable for thier words and actions.

And Allah knows the best.

May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong and all of us.Ameen summa Ameen

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

Okay that's fine. You can PM it to me or VM it to me in shaa' Allaah.

 

[strive-may-i]

Assalaamu Alaikum warahmathullaahi wabarakaatuh
Just a reminder to me.

Narrated ‘Aishah: Allah’s Messenger said, “Allah is Kind and He loves kindness, and confers upon kindness which He does not confer upon severity, and does not confer upon any thing besides it (kindness).” (Muslim)

Narrated ‘Aishah: Allah’s Messenger said, “Whenever kindness is added to something, it adorns it; and whenever it is withdrawn from something, it leaves it defective.”(Muslim)



The thread title reads:
The methodology of Salaf....
...................................... there was madness here at the heights of discussion, That's not the methodology of Salaf. And well, to justify madness with madness, is not an excuse, Insha Allah we can do better...

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

I do not wallow in anything. I do not consider this a social gathering. However, Islam does put a spin on social gathering..to be invested in the welfare of the community.

And most importantly, food for the soul is the Quran. Is it not written that the Quran is the wellspring of the soul. If you do not feed the soul you might as well be a zombie.

Yes, you are to share recipes if that is what it takes to be a member of the community. It makes the bond stronger.

The loftiest of all goals is simple. To live a life to please Allah subhana wa taala and uphold our end of the covenant. That is what we all forget. We took the responsibility to uphold our end. And how we fail.

Seeking knowledge is not seeking empty words. It is also the application of the knowledge. In simple words how do you apply faith to difficult situations in life. How do you hold onto the Rope of Allah when all you have is the wall around you and the ceiling is six inches over your head. And sometimes a good recipe is all it takes to put a smile on your face. Despite all odds you can fix a meal to please your family and by that you are serving Allah subhana wa taala as well.

I'll take that at anytime. The simple and tender blessings of Allah subhana wa taala.

 

[al-fajr]

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

It really saddens me to read this this thread which lacks of correct Islamic behaviour, modesty, brotherhood in Islam and at the end it aslo lacks of the justice one of the basic characteristics that should be part of every Muslim character.

While other Muslims are occupated with many more important things and are occupated which much more greater problems, you brother Thariq, brother Aziboy, brother Harris Hamam, brother Hammy and others are spending so much time on unnecessery disscussion, when you could spend your time on much useful and productive things.

I do not think that this has brought any benfit to any of us members here on TTI,and all of you together hold equal responsability in this disscussion and it is not only fault of brother Aziboy, because noone of you kept himselfe/ herselfe silent.

And Allah knows the best.

May Allah guide us all.Ameen summa ameen

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

wa-alaykum assalam wa rahmatullaah wa barakathuh,

I've quoted you, but there are probably more who share these sentiments.

If you want to sit in a corner and cry that this thread ever happened then go ahead, but don't kick up a fuss that we're not there to hand you a hanky, I for one have no intentions of consoling your misplaced emotions or even entertaining them.

If you see no benefit in this thread then you simply haven't read and understood it, it was absolutely necessary in my view.

The Ummah faces a lot of issues and they are not pretty, if you want moderators to brush these under the carpet, close threads like this instead of addressing them properly, then you're doing yourselves and everyone else absolutely no favours. Honestly.. you can carry on posting Zain Bhikha nasheeds and cute little 'we're BFF' images for everyone and pretend eveythings dandy, your choice but doesn't cut it in reality.

Just like it would be expected that Music would be removed on the forum, inappropriate images, other things that are contrary to the truth, this was just as important as any of that.

This thread contains much benefit, come back to it later and read it with a cool head, emotions aside, inshaAllaah you will agree that it is truly irreplaceable.

 

[Abu Talib]

For those think its better to avoid issue like this then they are wrong all those who participated were trying to clear the misconception about Taqleed. It has become a problem that people who lack the understanding of Taqleed are used to attack others while being ignorant about its terminology and application.

The ban was in place because of slandering and name calling it was taken up after a warning may be people didn't read or it got removed but one surely missed how scholars of Ahl Al Sunnah Wal Jama`h were called deviants and others called Shaytaan.

Harris Hammam has spent endless efforts to bring about the reality of Taqleed and to clear its misconceptions which is common among us. The benefit outweighs the criticism this thread has received and we should all benefit from it.

 

[Asja]

wa-alaykum assalam wa rahmatullaah wa barakathuh,

I've quoted you, but there are probably more who share these sentiments.

If you want to sit in a corner and cry that this thread ever happened then go ahead, but don't kick up a fuss that we're not there to hand you a hanky, I for one have no intentions of consoling your misplaced emotions or even entertaining them.

If you see no benefit in this thread then you simply haven't read and understood it, it was absolutely necessary in my view.

The Ummah faces a lot of issues and they are not pretty, if you want moderators to brush these under the carpet, close threads like this instead of addressing them properly, then you're doing yourselves and everyone else absolutely no favours. Honestly.. you can carry on posting Zain Bhikha nasheeds and cute little 'we're BFF' images for everyone and pretend eveythings dandy, your choice but doesn't cut it in reality.

Just like it would be expected that Music would be removed on the forum, inappropriate images, other things that are contrary to the truth, this was just as important as any of that.

This thread contains much benefit, come back to it later and read it with a cool head, emotions aside, inshaAllaah you will agree that it is truly irreplaceable.

Wa Allaicumu sallam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear sister "al fajr" for the sake of Allah please calm down, and please do note that we all have emotions Allhamdullilah, they are from Allah, and I do not think that any of the members should be hold accountable for those, of course as long as those emotions are clean and as long as they are making us doing good.

I think that mayority of us have red this thread carefuly, that mayority of us agree that there were some beneficial things mentioned here, but the harm was much greater, I hope you can see this or that you will see it after reading the thread again.

Dear sister you have mentioned so many things in your post, but they are not in order, they have lost their meanings, we should be careful with our words and remember that less is always better, and that sometimes is better to keep himself or herself silent and to understand that this does not mean "doing no action".

Mayority of the members here are Muslims, and as Muslims we all support justice, doing good and removing the harm, we support correct teachings of Islaam, we respect each others for the sake of Allah, and "closing eyes infront of any serious isue or call for support and help" is no option for us.


Allah knows the best


May Allah guide us all. Ameen summa ameen


:salam2:

 

[al-fajr]

..please do note that we all have emotions Allhamdullilah, they are from Allah ..

Indeed.

So is `aql.

:salam2:

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

He sent me a private message because the thread we were discussing in was closed.

There was nothing 'private' in the actual message. He apologized, which should be appreciated. But he went back on his own apology which needs to be shown to him, and thus I posted his PM here. He sent me other PM's, which I didn't share here.

He insulted me numerous times on the previous thread and I allowed him to insult me with freedom, untill sister Fajr decided to close that thread- JazaahAllaahu khayraa. Then, he PM'd me for some odd reason and apologized to me. Then, he started insulting me again on this thread. And as Imaam al-Bukharee narrated on the authority of Abu Hurayrah, that the Prophet :saw2: said:

لاَ يُلْدَغُ الْمُؤْمِنُ مِنْ جُحْرٍ وَاحِدٍ مَرَّتَيْنِ
"A believer is not stung twice (by something) out of one and the same hole."

He insulted me and then apologized and this was accepted from him. I am not going to let him sting me one more time, by him insulting me and then later apologizing to me again.

Besides, if I had insulted him- that would mean me degrading him by calling him offensive names.

There is no doubt he insulted you, more than could be tolerated, actually. I just thought you sharing his PM didn't suit your tolerance and good behaviour, perhaps I was wrong and what you did was necessary.

I apologise for having thought wrong of your actions.

Wa Allaicumu sallam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear sister "al fajr" for the sake of Allah please calm down

I think she's calm ukht. But you will turn her off if you ask her to stay calm unnecessarily. This discussion is very important. The amount of people critising the whole thread goes to show how ignorant we are. You talk about bad language and the mods actions, but with ignorance and stubbornness such as this, how could one have calm discussion? Those who were sharing their knowledge and doing the correction were pretty calm, arrogance was only shown by Brother Aziboy and hammy. Many members asked them to maintain humbleness in their writing but they didn't listen.

I know you believe the mods should have let the topic be after the two became unruly, but that wisdom doesn't apply here when the brothers were trying to preach wrong stuff and being arrogant about it.

 

[thariq2005]

There is no doubt he insulted you, more than could be tolerated, actually. I just thought you sharing his PM didn't suit your tolerance and good behaviour, perhaps I was wrong and what you did was necessary.

You may well have a point here.

I apologise for having thought wrong of your actions.

No need to apologize. I would really appreciate any sort of criticisms, publicly or privately, if I am wrong. Jazaakillaahu khayraa for your advice.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

You may well have a point here.



No need to apologize. I would really appreciate any sort of criticisms, publicly or privately, if I am wrong. Jazaakillaahu khayraa for your advice.

BaraakAllaahu feek and I'm in no position to advice you brother.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Time to move on...

For the Love of Allah everyone go find a good deed to do.

Stop attacking each other. Stop it.

Do not be pompous. So what if a sister is gentle and kind and feminine..that does not in any way diminish her intellectual abilities.

The sheer arrogance of some of the remarks are shameful. I do not care what position you hold. Shame is shame.

The problem with this thread is simple. If you can not break it down for all to understand than you do not know what you are talking about. The Prophet, swas, always took the time to respond until the questioner was satisfied. This name calling and personal attacks are immature and rude. They show a lack of character.

The fact that there have been so many hits on this lets you know people were trying to comprehend but there was a big hole in the argument. And this rating of people...for heavens sake who put you in charge.

The correct message is always easy for the hearer to comprehend. It is not obtuse and confused. It makes the bond of faith stronger.

 

[Asja]

I know you believe the mods should have let the topic be after the two became unruly, but that wisdom doesn't apply here when the brothers were trying to preach wrong stuff and being arrogant about it.

Dear sister, this what you have said above is not truth. I never said this and SubhanAllah I do not know from where you have concluded this, when I have explained everything clearly in my previous posts Alhamdulillah, and in nooone of those I have said something like this.

And sister, I do not understand why are you all the time quoting me and even saying something that is not truth.I do not want to disscuss unnenecessery, but like brother Thariq said one Muslim should not let to be treated unjustly.

And yes sister " Al Fajr", both using of reason and emotions, meaning heart, because the heart is the most close to Allah.

And Allah knows the best.

 

[Itqan Ullah]

Asslamaliekum warahmatullahi wabrakatu,
It is probably a bit late but It just struck my head that I have one thing unclarified.

If according to definition of taqleed being discussed here, a person who has knowledge of ayahs, hadeeths & statements of salaf (with verification of chain of transmission), scholarly conses,etc is a ghair-muqallid and everyone else is a blind follower in some respect. Then how there is no Taqleed in aqeedah? I mean aren't these topics like Istigha, tawassul or "where is Allah?" dealt in same way with regards to understanding?