This Is Important

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Islam provides a simple and easy to understand Deen for us to follow. It is as simple or as complicated as one wishes. Muslim scholars have laser minds that can dissect the thirteen sciences of Arabic, can thoroughly articulate the Islamic Theology and it's sub-divisions Proper Theology, Eschatology, Soteriology, Ethics, Islamic History, Hadith, Sunnah, etc.

But, one thing that I often hear is how the Christians make Jesus God's Son. The truth is most Christians with the exceptions of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints don't view Yeshua son of Mariam as the actual son of Allah. This is not to say that they have a correct understanding. Most believe that by the Creative Power of God that Mariam gave both without having sexual intercourse. The Roman Catholic Church has a doctrine of Immaculate Conception which actually states that Mary was conceived without intercouse; however, most people don't know that is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches when they here Immaculate Conception they think it is referring to Jesus.

I have done fairly extensive research on Jesus and The Holy Spirit in Christian Theology. My conclusion is that The Jehovah Witnesses and The Assembly of Yahweh comes closest to the original understanding of Jesus as Messiah. Most Christians are under the Mistaken belief that Jesus is God or a Third of God or a Manifestation of God in one of three persons. However, I don't know any denomination of Christianity other than The Mormons who teach that Jesus is the actual son of God as a result of intercourse.

For years I rejected Islam solely on the basis that the arguments I heard against Christianity were not what I believed. I knew that the churches that I had attended did not correctly conceptualize the reality of Yeshua, but I continued to search what the various Protestant Denominations taught.

What finally interested me about Islam and Al Qur'aan was Al Qur'aan. It wasn't what I had experienced with all the Christian Denominations that tried to prove each other wrong. It was each time that I encountered Truth it scattered and shattered falsehood.

Please forgive me for preaching, but what we, as Muslims, need to do is to simply share The Truth of Al Qur'aan with non-Muslims and Truth will lead them away from falsehood.

Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
Isa 40:16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
Isa 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.
Isa 40:20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isa 40:23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.
Isa 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
Isa 40:25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Isa 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.
Isa 40:27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?
Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Isa 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


Tahwid is what will show the falsehood of Christianity:

Al-Ikhlas
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One! (1) Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (2) He begetteth not nor was begotten. (3) And there is none comparable unto Him. (4)

Al-Baqara
And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. (186)

An-Nisa
And serve Allah. Ascribe no thing as partner unto Him. (Show) kindness unto parents, and unto near kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and unto the neighbour who is of kin (unto you) and the neighbour who is not of kin, and the fellow-traveller and the wayfarer and (the slaves) whom your right hands possess. Lo! Allah loveth not such as are proud and boastful, (36)

An-Nisa
Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin. (48)

An-Nisa
Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray. (116)

An-Nahl
And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming): Serve Allah and shun false gods. Then some of them (there were) whom Allah guided, and some of them (there were) upon whom error had just hold. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for the deniers! (36)

Al-Isra
Set not up with Allah any other god (O man) lest thou sit down reproved, forsaken. (22) Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not "Fie" unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word. (23)

Al-Isra
This is (part) of that wisdom wherewith thy Lord hath inspired thee (O Muhammad). And set not up with Allah any other god, lest thou be cast into hell, reproved, abandoned. (39)

Al-Anaam
Say: Come, I will recite unto you that which your Lord hath forbidden to you: that ye ascribe no thing as partner unto Him and that ye do good to parents, and that ye slay not your children because of penury - We provide for you and for them - and that ye draw not nigh to lewd things whether open or concealed. And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. This He hath command you, in order that ye may discern. (151)

This Message was delivered to Adam (PBUH, Noah(PBUH), Moses, (PBUH), Jesus, (PBUH) and finally to our Prophet Muhammad (Salla Alayhu 'Alayhi Wa Sallem). It can be found throughout The Old Testament and The New Testament. Isa son of Mariam answered when asked What IS The Greatest Commandment:

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

As Salamu 'Alaykum

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Brother Ayman,

I agree with you. But, how much validity do you give to those who ignorantly and foolish say that ALLAH is the moon god. How much credence do you give to those who portray Muslims as terrorists instead of individuals who have possess the qualities of Islam (Submission to Allah). If someone said to you, The Koran was written my Muhammad (PBUH) would you think that they had a correct view of Al Qur'an or Islam. My point is that just as I often give my opinion on things without presenting support from those who are qualified to render opinions on Islamic Matters, so, too, unless one thoroughly comprehends the Christian's conception of the reality of God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the teachings of that Christian's professed denominational theology, I think it is better to simply share Truth instead of condemning shirk that may or may not be part of that particular Christian's belief system.

As always, Brother, I appreciate your wisdom, knowledge, and insight and the concise way that you are able to express yourself. Perhaps, as I gain knowledge and insight into Islam, I too, Insha Allah, will be able to succinct express The Truth therein Islam.

It is time for Noon Prayer. As Salamu 'Alakum. (Is that the correct way to end a dialogue or is there another phrase I should be using?)

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

Salaamalaykum brother Frank,

Interesting post, I didn't know about the theology of the different churches.

There is a poem that sums up a lot of ideas about christian theology. Ibn al Qayyim (may Allah have mercy upon him) wrote this poem 'A'obbad al-Maseeh Fi Naqd al-Nasraniyyah'. Here is a link :-

[yt]7Fe1Oj_LRSQ[/yt]

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu Alaykum,

Brother in Islam:

Thank you for the Name of The Poem. Your link was broken; so, I embedded another:

Embedding didn't work for me either. Here is the link. I was having trouble earlier with making links; consequently, I am doing it manually

Oh Christ Worshippers

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

I regret that it is not possible to present the Christian Understanding of The Sacrifices, Tabernacle, Temple, Messiah as The Lamb of God and The Tabernacle of God, or their teachings concerning The Feast Days as Types and Shadows in this thread. The easiest way to sum up how I feel about this is in the words of Samuel to Saul:

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

We have such a logical and scientific Deen that anyone with a desire to submit to Allah will accept the Aqeedah. I just feel that I don't have to show a person all the wrong turns they made in traveling to their destination to give them proper instructions. Maybe some people need to be shown where they went wrong to avoid making the same wrong turn; however, it requires that the one giving the directions knows the route that person took. My goal has always been my destination of "submission to Allah"; consequently, it was more important for me to get correct directions so that I could reach that destination. (Of Course, it isn't really a destination at all, but the journey.)

(I think the biggest obstacle for me being concise is my college education where I learned how to use the semi-colon and comma in a compound sentence connected by words like: consequently, therefore, nevertheless, thus, etc )

 

[Bawar]

Assalamu alaikum brother Frank!

It has always been great to read your posts. I understand your point and I firmly support the view expressed above. This view is along the teachings of Holy Quran in general and more specifically in the light of the following two verses:

16:125
Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.

and

6:108
And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do.

In regards to the "do not insult ", we need to be very careful lest we cause more damage than repair.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

As I have said many times, it is claimed that people who share a native language often misunderstand what the other is saying. When you add language, culture, and various other memes, the percentage of mis-communication goes way up.

I was agreeing with you, Brother Ayman. It is important that we share Islam with as many as is possible, but how do we separate what individuals actually believe and what is stated that they believe. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as individuals such as Yusuf Estes, Jerald Dirks, etc. However, I have been a devout Christian for the greater part of my life (and, I am ashamed to say it, but a devout sinner serving my ego for much of my life). I have pastored a small church, preached revivals, and stood on street corners and knocked on doors to find individuals who were searching for spiritual answers. I hold myself accountable for every word that I spoke that promoted other than submission to Allah's path for the believers.

I have rarely met individuals with as sharp a mind, as skilled in logic, or as knowledgeable in grammar, theology, and history as the Muslims whom I have met online and in person. My purpose in starting this thread was to share what I found my reaction and heard others say their reaction was to the assigning of beliefs to Christians that they don't hold.

The first time I attended a Misjid, there was a Christian group visiting it. Some of the brothers asked the Christians what they believed concerning Jesus, the crucifix, and God. The majority of answers were not what is normally stated by non-Christians as what Christians believe. Of course, they were a Protestant denomination; so, naturally they did not wear or approve of the wearing of crucifixes as that is a Roman Catholic traditions and if a Protestant wears a cross it is generally one without a figure attached as they are supposedly celebrating that "the cross couldn't hold Jesus." Most did not seem strongly attached to the idea that Jesus was God in the flesh. And, many said that they loved Jesus as a teacher, but did not think he was God. This was a very progressive group of Christians. The answers from Baptists and Pentecostals would be very different. The answers from Jehovah Witnesses would not sound like the same religion. The answer from Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Church of Christ, United Church of Christ, Assembly of Yahweh, Nazarenes, Mennonites. Amish (if you could find one to answer), etc. would be different. Libraries are filled with the philosophies of Christian Theologians as has been the problem since the days that Yeshua son of Mariam walked the Earth:

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

And, Roman Catholics use the name father for priests (we all have Earthly Fathers, but the following verse refers to father as a religious title).

Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?


Some Christians pray to Saints; some pray to Mariam mother of Jesus; some believe that The Pope is Christ on Earth. All these things are condemned in the Bible. Luther posted his 95 Theses on the door of the castle church in 1517 and Protestants have been trying to find their way back to the teachings of Jesus every since.

Countless Christians have died rather than denounce their faith:

Foxe Book of Martyrs

And, when presented with the plain truth of Al Qur'an, Christians convert. The pen is mightier than the sword.

Yusuf Estes

Jerald Dirks

Neuroscientist Woman does not have on covering.

British Judge Converts

Catholic Nun

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I love when men respond to each other.

Brothers..when the individual soul hungers for the Creator..it does not have time to digest what mistakes it made on the way to the Hunger. The Soul needs comfort food. It needs the warmth and total acceptance that can only be given by Allah. It is still in the infantile state. It is reawakened. It is leaving its clay body to move on. It is so malnourished it has to take small bits of gruel to survive. I believe this is what Brother Frank is making reference.

Often when Muslims encounter those about to revert we get so carried away..we scare away the possible reverts by overwhelming them.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Sister Mirajmom, As always you were able to shift through my long winded posts and find the nugget that I tried to express.

In all seriousness, I do apologize if at times I respond where silence would be better. Unfortunately, I was scared by my first and second and third grade teachers. My first grade teacher didn't recognize that I needed glasses and couldn't see the board from where I was seated alphabetically. The one time that I did answer, as each classmate had to answer, I was the only one who answered correctly. The teacher then stated that everyone answered incorrectly. When I pointed out that I answered correctly, I learned the purpose of the strange shaped wooden plank. My second grade teacher constantly hit my hands with a ruler because I was naturally left handed and would instinctively pick up my pencil with my left hand. And, my third grade teacher told us we had to take a test and when we finished we could go out and play. I quickly marked A,B, C, D, E. cyclically down the answer sheet and turned in my test and went outside and played. Years later I discovered it was an IQ test and according to school records, I was borderline retarded, mentally handicapped, mentally challenged. After maintaining a 3.67 GPA at PENN STATE UNIVERSITY, I took the test for MENSA and was accepted. I still am trying to prove that I am not intellectually challenged.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu Alaykum, Brother Bawar, thanks for the ayat.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Brother in Islam,

Was your video visible all along. I couldn't see it and tried embedding it as well and it did show for me. Was the problem on my reception or at one of the two websites?

 

[arzafar]

I agree with brother frank.
Quran is the best guidance. i would say the only real guidance as it is 100% true. i really dont know why muslims engage in long debates with non muslims. just clarify their misunderstandings and that's it. We dont have to 'prove' anything. We cant 'convert' anyone. We are powerless!!! Allah guides whom He wills, we just need to make sure that we keep the light going. I'm not in favor of things like scientific and number theories in the quran etc.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Brother Arzafar, you are right and I love that you spoke an ayah truth in that it is Allah who draws or denies believers. I hope someday, Insha Allah, to be able to speak from the words of Al Quran as did Abdullah Ibn Masod when replying to Umar.


Unfortunately, for now, I must rely on the Bible as we have available in English.
Psa 133:1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Psa 133:2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;
Psa 133:3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Brother in Islam,

Was your video visible all along. I couldn't see it and tried embedding it as well and it did show for me. Was the problem on my reception or at one of the two websites?

Walaykumsalaam respected brother,

I think it was. But thanks for embedding in your post. What did you think of the poem ? I think it is very thought provoking, straightforward and blunt.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother Frank..honey...you ain't read most of my posts...they can lull anything to sleep.

One of my many experiences on my path was to interpret these crazy labeling tests for intelligence purposes within school systems and I actually was at one time was labeling people for psychological evals etc.

That is some crazy stuff. Forgive my use of informal language. We are all born with the same stuff..soul. And it comes from the same source...what makes it good is:
1( Oh how happy You have made me feel
2) This little light of mine..I'm gonna make it shine..