Turkey and Islam Discrimination against Turkish women who wear the Hijab

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by Mrmuslim, Sep 21, 2006.

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  1. Mrmuslim
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    Mrmuslim Smile you are @ TTI Staff Member

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    salaam alikom

    Well they call for Democracy in Islamic world....Why the west dont speak when this kind of discrimination happen!? It just sad what kind of open mind nation are they !! if some one walked half naked I am sure they wont mind but if a sister cover her self it becomes a big issue...:hawla:

    [yt]eeisjipCmCo[/yt]


    wa salaam alikom
  2. seekingtruth2
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    seekingtruth2 Junior Member

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    I am a new revert born and raised in the U.S. It was my forefathers who founded this country and our democracy. Here in the U.S. we are told that women are forced to wear hejab ect. in islamic countries and that if they do not do this they could be imprisoned or worse. (yes I know now this is a lie) I learned about islam from someone in syria and when various subjects such as this came up he always told me the truth of it. At first I did not believe him when he would tell me these things thinking he just wanted westerners to believe they were great people when the reality was different. But in time and through the Grace of Allah I learned the truth. (please dont get the wrong idea... we are just freinds! ) I also thought it was people like my friend who only wanted to see us dead, and there too I learned the truth. I say these things only so you understand a little more about me.
    Now because of these false ideas we ask our government to please not do buisness with these countries. In turn these countries feel like they cannot be religious and have trade with the west... so they are forced to make a decision, more trade meaning more jobs for the people or their religion.This is a choice not easy to make.
    What needs to be done is to educate the west as a whole because we now find ourselves denying people freedom of religion, a freedom we ourselves have fought and died for.
    But to be honest I dont know how, how do you change a persons mind when they aren't even willing to listen? I know I was not for a very long time. My daughter once came home from school and told me that islam and christianity had very much in common, and to my shame, I looked at her and told her the school was feeding her lies and the liberals were making them teach these lies and because of it I even considered taking my daughter out of school and teaching her at home because I thought how dare they feed these lies to my child.(ironic isn't it that now I am a muslim?)
    But I do think through love and compassion we can teach the western world that this religion is a choice and not forced on to anyone and we can make the west see that we are denying the very liberties we think we are fighting for. It was love and compassion that showed me! Some of the things I said and asked were insulting I'm sure, but he was patient and kind and always just told me how it really is.
    But I must warn...this will never happen if those few who bomb...ect. dont stop blaming it on religion and start blaming it on what is true and that is the politics of the west and how negatively it impacts other countries.

    Also felt I needed to add one more thing... perhaps it is satan's attack on the true religion to always make it look bad and evil..
  3. Mabsoot
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    Mabsoot Amir Staff Member

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    Wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullah,

    Thanks for the video.. I havent see it all, just first 4-5 mins.

    I got to say most Turks find anything that critises Ata Turk objectionable. Even those who are Islamic. They get upset quick, because this is the way they were educated....

    In Turkey, Turkish girls can not go to university unless they leave their Hijab at home. Many Turkish girls who are religious and who love Islam can not go university and instead stay home or do some course at another school or college. The state has effectively cut them off from getting an University education.

    Also, they can not ever work in the government or enter government buildings without the hijab..

    People should have a choice. Its through people's ignorance of Islam and the Rights Islam gives to people that they are backward...

    Rejecting Islam and embracing Western values is not going to achieve anything for Muslims. The only reason Muslims were successful during the middle ages was because they were close to Islam and they cared about it.
    The Arabs were innovating in fields of science, maths, medicine etc but this was not an ahievement based on their race or tribe, but because of Islam. Allah gave them the ability to understand their world.

    Today, people forget about Islam or they do not practise it in light of the Quran and SUnnah. If they did, they would know that Islam encourages Muslims to find out about the world, to learn and better themselves, their families and their community.

    If someone abuses women, murders people, does terrorism, doesnt want to get educated, stops other people from going to university etc the fault is with that person and his lack of understanding of Islam and not with Islam. Which shall always be perfect.

    -- SeekingTruth2, MashaAllah thats a great post.. :) IM really happy for you that you found Islam.. even though you had some misconceptions about Muslims. Unfortunately quite a lot of people have these same ideas. . But, it only takes a bit of research and interaction with Muslims to know that Islam and vast majority of the Muslim people are not like what the media represents... That Islam is a true Message from God, and it makes sense!

    wasalam.
  4. musa29
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    musa29 New Member

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    turks care islam

    selamun aleykum my name is musa from turkey only can say please dont say the think you are not sure aboute turkish .there millon muslim who live islam and who care about other muslim .keepeng country like this is more dificult than keepeng pakistan or any other .turkish work for islam do think for islam you can see all around the world where live turks .i am living in spain barcelona and there no one mosque no one islamic scool nothing and here lives alot of muslim from morrocco from pakistan and we are seeing what they do and have they chance so pelease study aboute turkey and turkish peopel before you say some think and alot of duaaaaa please we cannot lose turkey
    turkish are grandson of ottomans and there are millions think like ottomans .
    we are not arap but we are muslim we love resul allah (S.A.V.) ESSELAMMUN ALEYKUM .
  5. Raed
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    Raed Muslim Student

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    May allah punish ataturk and his followers.. ameen
  6. musa29
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    musa29 New Member

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    ameen

    ameen nucahie erbakannnnnnnnnn
  7. virtualeye
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    virtualeye Tamed Brother

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    May Allah give Hidayah to the followers of Ataturk and May Allah send Ataturk to the deepest part of Hell.

    Wasslaam,
    VE
  8. Raed
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    Raed Muslim Student

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    All my respect to muslims in turkey.. may allah help our brothers and sisters in turkey, we wont forget u in our dua.... just be strong .. and inshallah istanbul will be open again by Al Mahdi and then will open Rome...
  9. alkathiri
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    alkathiri As-Shafaa'i(Brother)

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    :salam2:

    I thought the present govenment is pro-islam ???
  10. virtualeye
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    virtualeye Tamed Brother

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    AssalaamuAlaikum,

    The video is to point out that the establishment/government is ugly and the work of Ataturk is ugly and devilish, and not the turks. Infact, this video shows those good Turk Muslims are suffering. So we worry about them and think about them.

    I belong to Pakistan, but I hate our government and the ugly people in our country. That does not mean I hate all the good Muslims of Pakistan. That means, Islam is the only scale and truth is the only morality. On Judgement day, nobody will be called by his nationality but will be identified by his FAITH. Thats it.


    Wasslaam,
    VE
  11. virtualeye
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    virtualeye Tamed Brother

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    Being blackmailed by the army. (same filthy thoughts of army higher command as in Pakistan). That is why Busharraf is ruling in Pakistan.

    Wassalaam,
    VE
  12. Raed
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    Raed Muslim Student

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    Yes you are right brother, i just got angery when i saw this turkish woman talking against muslims...
  13. tolgatemur
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    shamefull example

    Salam Aleyküm Bros and Sisters,

    i see many of the brothers and sister here think that secualrism is ban on people religion. There is nothing like that..what a horrible wrong
    I think secularism is freedom of believing freedom of faith.
    Given the example of hijab ban on universities it clearly shows Turkey is not completely secular unfortunately. i am sad that those kind of things happen in turkey. I think ban on hijab will change.

    As to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk( i admire his succes ) and Independence war Shehiids (Matries). i think some of you are not fair to my history it might even be regarded as disrespect. They many ottoman pasa including Ataturk and Mehmetcik(Name of Muhammed SAW in turkish accent still honoured on the turkish soldiers as a name) figted against to west emperialism, when istanbul and Sultan fell to British. No problem i can tolerate that disrespect you re my bro and sisters.

    i think many of the turk has right to lose face to the statemen told before making sure of.

    My Mothers grandad participated in Sivas congress arranged by ottoman pasa including Mustafa Kemal.

    Many of you doesn know the Ataturk in the history i think you re too sensitive more than neccessary to anti-democratic things in turkey and misleaded by your feelings and lack of informationson turkish history. No democracy is perfect but i think ours is too awkwards sometime. and have some problems to be solved.

    Turkey have a problem to solve .. i think it could... to be continued...
  14. xSharingan01x
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    xSharingan01x TraVeLer

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    :salam2:
    The part I highlighted is very true, that many of us are not aware of "Ataturk" and history concerning prior to "Ataturk" during "Ataturk" and after "Ataturk". However some of us know enough about Turkish history during the decay of Ottoman empire to make a clear judgment on the legacy of "Ataturk"

    I personally find the title "Ataturk" to be somewhat comical, if anything Uthman Ghazi, Suleiman the Magnificent, and Mehmet I, has greater claim to such titles. Mr. "Ataturk's" success and "achievements" pales in comparison compare to the 3 Sultans I mentioned above.
    Comparing them to Kamal is like comparing a lion to an ant.


    I find it baffling as to how a large faction of Turkish society can regard Kamal as a demigod . Brother Mabsoot hit the nail when he said "I got to say most Turks find anything that criticism Ata Turk objectionable".
    I can't come up with any other explanation aside from overzealous nationalism and to some degree blind patriotism.
    Much like how many Americans believe "America is the shining beacon of humanity, a role model for other states" ignoring all the blood that drips from her long imperial arms.


    Brother please honestly ponder about the consequences of the collapse of Ottoman Khalifa not to the state of Turkey but to the Muslim lands of the Middle East. All for the sake of secularism and "worldly success"?.
    What did the Turks achieve since becoming "modern state"? Yes to a certain degree Turkey is very European, but she still does not have the standard of living as the Europeans do, she still lags behind in technology and infrastructures compare to the Western countries.
    Turkey is not considered "developed country" yet, rightfully so. After decades of reforms and struggle to "modernize" and "secularize" the Europeans still don't want Turkey, save a few.

    Turkey is busy making concessions and the Europeans are still rejecting her, and some say it's because Turks are Muslims. How much concessions are the secularist willing to make? Let all the Turks become whirling dervishes so the Europeans will be happy ;)

    I feel for my brothers and sisters in Turkey who love Allah and His Messenger :saw: and who love Islam. Yes, I'm aware there are plenty of good Muslims there.
    Point to remember: Allah honored the Turks through Islam, and the Ottoman Caliphate came as a result of Islam.
    (Prior to Islam they were merely central Asian Nomads, , much like the Mongols, much like the Arabs during Jahliya, history would have remembered them as just "another group of Nomads").

    The 500 years of rich Turkish Islamic history and the achievements and success through that time cannot be compared with 80 years of failed 'secular imitation'.

    Yes, I'm very much aware of what Kamal achieved, in my opinion not much. Yes, I'm also aware of the fact the Sultan had many weaknesses and problems.







    :wasalam:
  15. xSharingan01x
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    xSharingan01x TraVeLer

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    I wouldn't call this 'scholarly' but some food for thought ;)

    Ayah to ponder: ""O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
    *The late Turkish history testifies to the eternal wisdom of this Ayah. One of the main factor of Ottoman decline was the concessions the Sultans began to make to the European powers. SubhanAllah! Now Muslim states are begging to befriend them. (I'm not talking about trade and diplomacy)



    "The Prophet said, "The knots of Islam will be undone one by one until every one of them is undone, and the first one to be undone is the ruling by the Book of Allah (swt) and the last one is the prayer."

    The Prophet established the knots of Islam upon the earth. For thirteen years, he endured many hardships so that the earth could be shaded by ruling by the Book of Allah (swt), the Islamic State. For thirteen centuries thence, the Muslims lived by this noble rule. In this period, they enjoyed Allah's (swt) pleasure, for they ruled by that which pleased Him (swt). In the above hadith, the Prophet spoke of how this would not last. Throughout the centuries of Islamic rule, Muslims who read this hadith shuddered at the mere thought of the loss of the Islamic State. The Khilafah was abolished on 3rd March 1924. In its place today are over fifty secular, states. Their ruling is by other than the Book of Allah (swt). The advocates of secularism would have us feeling no remorse at this huge loss. Secularists perceived it as a step forward; the destruction of the Islamic rule was a sign of 'progress'. They are even told to idolise the man who was so instrumental in its destruction, Mustafa Kemal. To the extent that 'TIME Magazine' has been inundated by requests for him as a nominee for 'Man of the Century'.

    The abolition of the Khilafah, has been far from a step forwards. Its demise inflicted wounds, from which we are still scarred today. The events surrounding its abolition revealed many vital issues that affect us. It was not a freak occurrence or an accident. It was a culmination of decades of work by the colonial powers, with Mustafa Kemal merely pulling the trigger. Here follows an account.

    The Khilafah is a shield, standing in the way of secular designs

    At the end of the 19th Century, Prime Minister Disraeli, held a copy of the Book of Allah (swt) in the British Parliament. He stated that Muslims could never be defeated until it was taken from them. Today the Qur'an is still present amongst us, it is recited in our houses and mosques. What Disraeli meant specifically was the ruling and living by Islam. And with good reason, for Muhammad said, "The Imam is a shield, you fight from behind him and are protected by him" The European powers endured the consequences of this hadith. The Khilafah ably protected the Islamic Lands from the designs of the kuffar. These designs remained unfulfilled for centuries. Disraeli and Bismarck conferred in Berlin (1887) to divide the Islamic Lands. Plans reiterated in the Sykes-Picot (British-French) secret agreement of 1916. They had already occupied many of the Islamic Lands. However, they still harboured the same fears that filled the hearts of the original Crusaders. They succeeded in occupying Islamic Lands, although it was short-lived. Within years, they were completely routed as Khaleefah Nur-ud-Deen launched a jihad against them. The defeat of the Crusaders showed that while the Khilafah existed, the latent power within the Muslims could always be unleashed. Therefore, Britain demanded that Muslims abolish the Khilafah at the Lausanne conference (20th November 1922 to 4th February 1923). Also previously, in 1915 the Russian ambassador to Britain, sent a message back to St Petersburg: "The Italian Government supports the Russian Government's opinion. The Italian government wholeheartedly supports wresting the Khilafah from the Turks and abolishing it if necessary". Their ground work was laid long before when the Europeans sponsored missionary activity within the Khilafah. Missionary centres sprang up around, and even within, the borders of the decaying Islamic State such as those in Malta (end of 16th Century), ash-Sham (1725) and Beirut (1820). Their objective was not to convert Muslims to Christianity, this idea was as ludicrous as it was unlikely. Rather it was to dupe Muslims into adopting Islam as the Europeans had adopted Christianity. Specifically, they wished that Muslims followed their example, by having a secular Reformation. That is that the Muslims would separate the deen from the State. They formed many associations and parties for this purpose. Through this and other means, they recruited Muslims to their secular crusade. Now all that remained was the implementation of the secular vision. Time proved that this was not to be an easy task.

    Secularists in Turkey try to abolish Khilafah

    By the early 1920's the 'Union and Progress' and the 'Young Turks' manoeuvred towards implementation of secularism. Their boldest initiative was a proposal for a secular constitution, presented to the National Assembly. This evoked an angry response. Kathim Qara Bakir, the 'Uthmani Khilafah General , said, "I have vowed to prevent any steps undertaken with the aim of transforming the country from a Sultanate to a republic, no matter how dear the sacrifice were." A leading secularist, Mustafa Kemal retorted, "The constitution drafted by the National Assembly is not final...There is nothing in these laws to suggest that the sacred Sultanate and the sacred Khilafah would be undermined, or to suggest an incitement towards adopting a republican ruling system. Those who imagine that we wish to destroy the Sultanate and substitute the Sultanic rule by the republican rule are in fact living in another planet than the one we live in, that is the planet of fiction and imagination." History has shown how empty these words were. Their ensuing actions showed that they wished to bring this planet from the realm of fiction and imagination, into bitter reality. The real motive for this apparent climb-down was that they realised Bakir was well respected for his sound reasoning by the Ummah. His views represented the view of the Ummah of the time. Indeed, the Ummah was aware that Islam dealt with all life's affairs, including that of the government. They held no concept of a secular government i.e. a government that looked outside of Islam for its form and detail. This was all but spelled out to the secularists when they later showed their true colours. In the midst of debate in the National Assembly, Kemal suggested the separation between the Sultanate and the Khilafah, thus abolishing the Sultanate and removing the Khaleefah, Wahid-ud-Deen. A foreign affairs committee was called upon to examine this matter the following day. It included in its ranks Islamic scholars. The committee spent hours studying the issue of separating the Sultanate from the Khilafah. The committee rejected the proposal unanimously, citing texts from the Qur'an and the Sunnah forbidding a secular government.

    Islamic forbids Secularism and commands Khilafah

    The following verses of Qur'an, are just a few of the Islamic evidences that clearly demonstrate that Islam came to decide all matters. Secularism denies Islam any say in politics. Allah (swt) revealed in the Qur'an:

    "But no, by Your Lord, they can have no (real) faith until they make you judge in all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest submission." [TMQ 4:65]

    "And if you judge between people, judge with justice." [TQM 4:58]

    "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you in authority..." [TMQ 4:59]

    "Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are disbelievers." [TMQ 5:44]

    "Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors." [TMQ 5:45]

    "Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors." [TMQ 5:47]

    "So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their desires away from the truth that has come to you." [TMQ 5:48]

    "Judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their desires but beware of them lest they seduce you from some part of that which Allah has revealed to you." [TMQ 5:49]

    "The rule is to none but Allah." [TMQ 6:57]

    Allah's (swt) Messenger said, "The Prophets took care of the affairs of the children of Israel, whenever a Prophet died another Prophet succeeded him, but there will be no Prophet after me. There will be Khulafa'a and they will number many." "Whosoever removes a hand from obeying Allah will stand before Allah on the Day of Judgement with no evidence/complaint, and whom of you who dies without pledging his oath to a Khalifah will have died the death of a non-believer."

    Secularist confront the Ummah and Islam

    The secularists were up against the word of Allah (swt), and an Ummah that held them sacred. Thus a conflict between the Ummah and the secularists ensued. The following quotes and events demonstrate the intensity of that conflict. One can clearly see that the Ummah of the time proved to be a worthy example, for the present generation of Muslims that face secular rule in the Islamic Lands.

    November 1922. "The Sultanate must be separated from the Khilafah and abolished. This will happen whether you agree to it or not. All there is to it is that some of your heads will roll in the process." Mustafa Kemal's response to hearing the rejection by the foreign affairs committee. The National Assembly rejected the proposal, despite the fact that Mustafa Kemal's supporters rested their hands on pistols. Yet, the speaker announced that the Assembly had endorsed the proposal by a general consensus. Upon this a number of deputies jumped on top of their seats protesting and shouting, "This is not true, we did not agree to this.' Kemal dissolved the National Assembly and hold fresh elections, hoping to acquire a majority. However, this new Assembly was also against secularism.

    29th October 1923. Mustafa Kemal addressed the National Assembly, "...I have decided that Turkey should become a republic with an elected president." When the voting took place, fewer than 40% of the deputies took part. However, the decree had been prepared beforehand by the secularists. It declared that there was approval for the formation of a secular Turkish Republic, with Kemal as its first President. The masses turned against the secular proposals. The word was spread everywhere that the new rulers of Ankara were kuffaar. Many prominent orators started to attack Mustafa Kemal. Leaflets and caricatures which attacked him fiercely were distributed. Many of the deputies and prominent figures left Ankara and headed towards Istanbul, to rally around the Khaleefah Abdul-Majid. Kemal then gauged opinion amongst the army. He attended the annual military maneuvers near Izmir and spent days reviewing the situation, with Fawzi and Ismat, probing the low ranking officers and soldiers. He found a strong opposition to secularism. Secularists resorted to brutality. The National Assembly endorsed a bill declaring that any opposition to the republic and any inclination towards the deposed Sultan, would be considered an act of treason, punishable by death. Kemal ordered the assassination of one of the staunchest critiques of secularism, as he was returning from the National Assembly. When yet another deputy delivered a speech in support of the Khaleefah, Kemal threatened him with hanging. 1st March 1924. The Greater National Assembly convened. Mustafa Kemal demanded the abolition of the Khilafah. Again there was fierce opposition. 2nd March 1924. The National Assembly convened once more in order to review this decree; the session went on all night until 6.30 a.m. Again nothing was resolved. 3rd March 1924. In spite of the opposition from the Assembly and the Ummah, the abolition of the Khilafah was announced, and with it the separation of the deen from the state."
  16. safiya58
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    :salam2:

    is it only Turkey? In other countries the same things happen (tunisia is just one example)... a country deserved to be called muslim country is not existing in the whole world.... all the bad things happening in europe like zina, consum of alkohol,drugs... etc also happening in muslim countries but in secret... and that´s the only difference.... when I ask you guys to name me just one islamic ruled country in the world, could u name one? Saudi Arabia is known to be an islamic country, isn´t it? why they supported America with their war in Iraq then? and this -to be invollved with the killing of innocents- is a greater problem then banning hijab!

    about Atatürk, I´m turkish but I´m not his fan! still I think it is unnecessarry to curse him cuz he is allready dead... I don´t want to protect him, he acted unjustly but it was not him who destroyed the ckalifa... aslong as the world keeps rotating there will always be just and unjust.... when the followers of the just begann to weaken, and slowly beginn to take off of their duties Allah (Subanallahu Teal) has imposed them, then ofcourse the opponent will gain the power it deserved, cuz they worked harder for it... It was the muslims themselve destroying the ckalifa... why can we not realize that we are the wrongs we see...

    but anyway has anyone noticed how scared they was of Islam.... Allahu Akbar!
  17. xSharingan01x
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    xSharingan01x TraVeLer

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    :salam2:



    That's very true Sister about Muslim countries, but the discussion happen to be out Turkey. Sorry to single out Turkey.


    I don't think anyone cursed Kamal "Ataturk"
    Hmm, but I still find it strange that he is seen as a demigod by some.
    Not a huge fan of personality cult. Not a huge fan of rulers either ;)


    May Allah guide and improve our affairs. Ameen.


    :wasalam:
  18. tolgatemur
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    tolgatemur Junior Member

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    Salam Aleykum Sister and Bros,

    why do i or we need to compare Ataturk and the other greath mens in Turkish history?
    what is the point?

    I agree Mehmet Han was more important than Ataturk in turkish history because he made Ottomans an emperor. and importance of Otoman gazi is not debateable. (Not Uthman)


    Was it Ataturk who attacked Ottoman lands? or The emperialist power and our Arab rulers (no offense to arab friends )who destroyed ottoman?
    There is nothing like that there happen to be a new state from zero which is impossible at the time of Atatürk. Turkey has very old traditions on governings and cultures Unfortunately turks re not as greath as they were before. because they lost the civilization battle against to the west..their economy.. culture.. infrasutructures. Those were all too long before Ataturk born

    ı also benefited your ideas about turkeys foreign policy especialy about EU. But it is too long list to talk about on the tread.
    i dont want to be out of the points. But if you re interested .. to say a few. i dont want EU union.

    Turk have central assian root but they do not shame for it but honoured (my opinion ) when they invade mid east they get manything from Byzans. Persian and Arab culture.

    Secularism wasnt an imitation.. was the result of ottoman reforms. Do you think westernization reforms started in Ataturk times? it has too long way back.

    Plust turkish islamic history is not 500 years old more than that. :)

    as to the ayet mentioned.. you look as if no muslim country had relation with the Eur countries.i dont know what ever the religion of the state means.and what the friend of the state means. Do you think any state will go to Jannat or Hell?
    plus there re many thing worth to phrase in European history to take example of greath arthist scholars. taking example of is not friendship just learning. You know anchtient greek contrubute much to islam scholarships.
    unfortunately Christians.. Jew .. Muslim .. re just a brand name now a days.. Allah know who is muslim and faithfull.
    as to the many of the ayet given as an example.. Muslim should be lead by muslim. Do you advice the society to elect represent who is muslim in the democratic parlimenter system?
    i agree with you. Or do you mean if i choose non-muslim in the election i ll go to hell ? But i dont know who is muslim who is not in this age. first the one who has iman second the one who has money is not known.
    Muslim can demand any right.. Even they can deman ban on gambling whic is also ban in Islam (you can gamble in secularist Turkey) there re some turkish friend here ask them.

    Unfortunately seeming like areligious people for example seeming like a perfect muslim make good money all around the world.. Allah may bless real muslims like you sharingan (i suppose you re muslim )

    Do you think no compulsion in religion confront those ayets? Allah may guide all of us. you and me may not go out of his orders.
    Secularism mean.. The state is not allowed to mandate anything the state think religious to the society on the other words no compusion on the religion.
    But people must live their religion freely whic is verily possible in secularism.

    you say there is no secularism in Islam religion can you also say there is no freedom of vicdan in islam too?

    i dont realy understand why should i mandated to obey any interpratation of Islam.. But i choose with my free will.

    Why the khalips have to be a turk? You demand ottoman Khalip right? there re son of Ottoman still alive why dont for example Wahabies establis one of them as new khalips?

    as i said you re too sensitive about antidemocracies in turkey may be about what i tell too. It is arguable that wheather a khaliphate would be good or not.
    ı think if muslim society have a khaliphate there would be good. so that we wont be represented by the terrorists.

    i dont know would islam countries join Turkey politicaly under as it was before if there would be a khaliph in istanbul . Or may be it would be like Pope of Rome. Or do you advice turkey first establish a khalip amongs Ottoman family as it was before then invade muslim world again like old times grand turks?
    Dont you see what is happening in Gaza our muslim brothers and sisters re dieing. The muslim world is slient on the calling of brothership. would it be different if the calling is from one having title "khaliph"?
    would multi millioner petrolium muslims invest more in muslim countries more than they invest in non muslim countries for example US?
    What is the use of Khalip in modern days in whic ottoman empire collapsed. and muslim world is divided many politics and fanatism?

    Have you read Lozan act?

    I still admire the succes of turkish matries on the battle field Sharingan :)

    Cant you see some curses in the rooms like "go hell Ataturk"

    Let them tell it is to their share.
  19. Islam!!yay
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    Islam!!yay Junior Member

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    :salam2:


    Isnt the country like 99 % Muslims ?
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