urgent help

[podolski11]

assalamualaikum...i was recently talking to a shia about why they beat themselves in muharram and i was like saying it was wrong but then he showed me this


Then his wife came up in great grief, and she struck her face and said: An old barren woman!
Quran [51:29]

(she smote her face,) meaning, she struck herself upon her forehead, according to Mujahid and Ibn Sabit. Ibn `Abbas said that she smacked her face just as women do when confronted with an amazing thing,
Tafsir Ibne Kathir, Tafsir of Surah 51, Verse 29

and this is not condemned anywhere by Allah(swt).


yea i know what your response was to the ayah above.

but she struck her face because of her emotion, and its not condemned by Allah(swt). we hit our chest because of the emotion. "love" and "grief" is a form of emotion. and as you said that she was "amazed" and thats why she struck her face, the "amazed" is a form of emotion. there over you are allowed to beat yourself.

if you say its complete different issue..no its not..Quran says clearly and she struck her face.

meaning that you ARE allowed to hit/beat yourself. thats the whole issue.

IF you claim that she only struck once, meaning that you cannot struck several time.
now i dont get what kind of logic this is...so IF she struck her face again..she would be condemned by Allah(swt)? no ofcourse not.
hitting your face is allowed there over hitting other parts of your body is also allowed.

this is Quranic proof.

but i want evidence from you that its NOT allowed to beat your self in time of grief.


need ur help to answer back

 

[Abdul Hasib]

Yeah hitting yourself is a thing that happens to people who are emotionally hurt or depressed.

 

[a_muslimah86]

assalamo alaikum

first of all I would like to quote (almost) all the verses related to the verse that was quoted to you..they are from Surat Athaariyaat (The Winnowing Winds)..and they are as follows:

24. Has the story reached thee, of the honoured guests of Abraham?

25. Behold, they entered his presence, and said: "Peace!" He said, "Peace!" (and thought, "These seem) unusual people."

26. Then he turned quickly to his household, brought out a fatted calf,

27. And placed it before them.. he said, "Will ye not eat?"

28. (When they did not eat), He conceived a fear of them. They said, "Fear not," and they gave him glad tidings of a son endowed with knowledge.

29. But his wife came forward (laughing) aloud: she smote her forehead and said: "A barren old woman!"

30. They said, "Even so has thy Lord spoken: and He is full of Wisdom and Knowledge."

this person is totally taking the verse out of context..the woman obviously hit her face OUT OF SHOCK..just like when you see something shocking and you put your hand to your mouth as a reaction..she didn't SIT THERE and REPEATEDLY hit her face!..

when you ask shias why they hit themselves..they say.."it is out of our grief for the martyrdom of Hussein (r.a.) and in remembrance of the sad and unfortunate event*..

the verse quoted to you..relates to GLAD-TIDINGS that caused utter shock for a man and his wife!!!..and it's quite OBVIOUS!..

so I don't even see the connection!

back to the issue of grief however.. "striking" yourself..might happen on the first few hours...or even days because one might be distraught with their loss and all...

but when you hit yourself *EVERY* year for *CENTURIES*...and actually make feasts where such things take place (literally..invite people over to your house or worst yet a MASJID..to *BEAT THEMSELVES*) then what you are doing is not coming from being over-whelmed by grief and shock...but it's simply following and participating in an INNOVATED AND OSTENTATIOUS RITUAL..

and let's assume that "striking the face" or even "other parts of the body" is allowed (which I highly doubt is..if it was intentional and committed in a ritual-like occasion like I mentioned)..

why do the shias cut their head with swords..and use chains to afflict wounds?..also why make it choreographed?..complete with musical instruments or sounds..and what they call "qiraya" (nasheed or song like poetry..most of which contain shirk mind you!)???? (I have personally witnessed that..so this is not hearsay!)....

and most importantly...WHY OH WHY...do they involve KIDS in it???..if an adult is overcome by grief and is striking him/her self and he/she wants to cut him/her self or strike him/her self for remembrance of the martyrdom of Hussein (r.a.)..WHY do they afflict small cuts on the heads of little toddlers and make kids beat themselves with chains????????...or simply allow them TO WITNESS these horrid rituals?????????..what do these children understand about these things so they'd expose them at their tender ages to these alien actions???????

for the record..in case you have not noticed yet..shias have a HUGE tendency to take one verse out of a sura to justify an issue that they follow or support such as the infallibility of Imams..temporary marriage..among other issues..

and they always use the SAME verses..and the SAME hadiths (almost always unauthentic ones)..for every argument they have with sunnis!..they just have this concrete pattern when arguing..but inshallah you will be able to come to a conclusion with this person!

and I seek refuge with Allah from such ignorance and such deviance!

wa alaikum assalam

 

[Shahzad]

this is absolutely not allowed.

Shias use quraan to derive THEIR meanings and also in their religion, lie is also allowed. He might have been lyiung to u.

There is a sincere advise that dont talk to any shia about the religion as they can misguide u as we dont have much knowledge about islam while they teach their children, their religion from very begining

 

[hassenali]

assalamoalaikum,
in response to evidence brought up by a muslimah 86 against the shias now can we consider the shias as muslim and trust them?

 

[Munawar]

:salam2:
The fact is totally opposite of what he was telling you. The reality is that in this Surah Adh-Dhariyat it is about Prophet Ibrahim when he was told about the birth of Ishaq (AS), Sarah (AS) when she heard it from the angels smote her face with amazement and disbelief that how she could give birth to a child because she was very old and barren too. Read the verses in sequence:

(51:28) Then he became afraid of them. They said, "Be not afraid!" And they gave him the good news of the birth of a son, possessing knowledge.

(51:29) Hearing this his wife came forward, crying, and she smote her face, and said, "An old woman, barren! "
(That is, "I am not only old but barren too. How shall a child be born to me?" According to the Bible, the Prophet Abraham at that time was a hundred years old and Sarah was ninety.)

(51:30) "Thus has said your Lord," they replied, "He is the All-Wise, the All-Knowing. "

I hope you understand it now.

 

[amina88]

thats just crazy

Sorry mate but that's just so stupid. What kind of an idiot would hit themselves and consider it lawful both islamically and logically? That Shia person should use some common sense and avoid twisting the quranic ayats out of context in order to suit their culture! There are numerous hadiths condemning women (people) who hit themselves and rip their clothes upon bad news.
And Allah sw knows best

 

[a_muslimah86]

assalamoalaikum,
in response to evidence brought up by a muslimah 86 against the shias now can we consider the shias as muslim and trust them?

assalamo alaikum

W-O-W!

brother?

seriously!

did you read my post..AT ALL?

where did I give *any* inclination to do so?????

I know Shias probably more than anybody here...as I am a sunni Iraqi..and I (along with my family) have been exposed to them ALL OF OUR LIVES!...and I know a young-woman who USED to be one and she tells me many things that you normally shias wouldn't admit to!!!!!!

and I have read plenty on their doctrine.....and THUS I STATED AT THE VERY END OF MY POST *I SEEK REFUGE WITH ALLAH FROM SUCH *IGNORANCE* AND SUCH D-E-V-I-A-N-C-E*....

HOW CAN I TRUST..OR ENCOURAGE SOMEONE ELSE TO TRUST A PEOPLE WHOM I BELIEVE ARE DEVIANT??????!!!!

IF YOU HAD *READ* THE POST...YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT STRAIGHT AWAY!!!..

Subhanallah!!!..

you took my words and twisted them around even though they're *written* right in front of your face!!!!

Subhanallah!!!

all I got to say is....go back and read the post to correct your assumption!!!..because it seems like you read only what you *thought in your head*!!!

wa alaikum assalam

 

[a_muslimah86]

Sorry mate but that's just so stupid. What kind of an idiot would hit themselves and consider it lawful both islamically and logically? That Shia person should use some common sense and avoid twisting the quranic ayats out of context in order to suit their culture! There are numerous hadiths condemning women (people) who hit themselves and rip their clothes upon bad news.
And Allah sw knows best

assalamo alaikum sister...

do you have these hadiths on hand???..

as I wanted to find them..but couldn't..and I only have one memorized..but I wanted to quote it by appropriately stating the source..

I would like to have them if you do..for personal knowledge

I hope that I'm not hassling you with my request

wa alaikum assalam

 

[Salika]

:salam2:

You know, these people are making Islam look very bad. They are put in the media and immediately people get Islam misinterpreted. It's so sad. May Allah guied us all!...Aameen.

 

[hassenali]

walaikum salam,
to be honest with you i know very little about shias, coz in mauritius there is a very tiny community of shias and they are very private ,i am sorry if my stupid question hurt you in any way.

 

[jamafg]

??????

Dear brother :salam2: ,

Sorry you must understand that those people will never ever accept any proof to show them the non exactitude of their habit.

 

[jamafg]

Do you think?

My dear brother :salam2:,
Do you think they will accept any proof to show them the non exactitude of their habit and pratise? I personaly doubt about it!

assalamo alaikum

first of all I would like to quote (almost) all the verses related to the verse that was quoted to you..they are from Surat Athaariyaat (The Winnowing Winds)..and they are as follows:

24. Has the story reached thee, of the honoured guests of Abraham?

25. Behold, they entered his presence, and said: "Peace!" He said, "Peace!" (and thought, "These seem) unusual people."

26. Then he turned quickly to his household, brought out a fatted calf,

27. And placed it before them.. he said, "Will ye not eat?"

28. (When they did not eat), He conceived a fear of them. They said, "Fear not," and they gave him glad tidings of a son endowed with knowledge.

29. But his wife came forward (laughing) aloud: she smote her forehead and said: "A barren old woman!"

30. They said, "Even so has thy Lord spoken: and He is full of Wisdom and Knowledge."

this person is totally taking the verse out of context..the woman obviously hit her face OUT OF SHOCK..just like when you see something shocking and you put your hand to your mouth as a reaction..she didn't SIT THERE and REPEATEDLY hit her face!..

when you ask shias why they hit themselves..they say.."it is out of our grief for the martyrdom of Hussein (r.a.) and in remembrance of the sad and unfortunate event*..

the verse quoted to you..relates to GLAD-TIDINGS that caused utter shock for a man and his wife!!!..and it's quite OBVIOUS!..

so I don't even see the connection!

back to the issue of grief however.. "striking" yourself..might happen on the first few hours...or even days because one might be distraught with their loss and all...

but when you hit yourself *EVERY* year for *CENTURIES*...and actually make feasts where such things take place (literally..invite people over to your house or worst yet a MASJID..to *BEAT THEMSELVES*) then what you are doing is not coming from being over-whelmed by grief and shock...but it's simply following and participating in an INNOVATED AND OSTENTATIOUS RITUAL..

and let's assume that "striking the face" or even "other parts of the body" is allowed (which I highly doubt is..if it was intentional and committed in a ritual-like occasion like I mentioned)..

why do the shias cut their head with swords..and use chains to afflict wounds?..also why make it choreographed?..complete with musical instruments or sounds..and what they call "qiraya" (nasheed or song like poetry..most of which contain shirk mind you!)???? (I have personally witnessed that..so this is not hearsay!)....

and most importantly...WHY OH WHY...do they involve KIDS in it???..if an adult is overcome by grief and is striking him/her self and he/she wants to cut him/her self or strike him/her self for remembrance of the martyrdom of Hussein (r.a.)..WHY do they afflict small cuts on the heads of little toddlers and make kids beat themselves with chains????????...or simply allow them TO WITNESS these horrid rituals?????????..what do these children understand about these things so they'd expose them at their tender ages to these alien actions???????

for the record..in case you have not noticed yet..shias have a HUGE tendency to take one verse out of a sura to justify an issue that they follow or support such as the infallibility of Imams..temporary marriage..among other issues..

and they always use the SAME verses..and the SAME hadiths (almost always unauthentic ones)..for every argument they have with sunnis!..they just have this concrete pattern when arguing..but inshallah you will be able to come to a conclusion with this person!

and I seek refuge with Allah from such ignorance and such deviance!

wa alaikum assalam

 

[aynur7]

OK.We shias always mistreated & misnderstood.Our enemies unite,but we can't accept
each other.We both accept Allah & prophet Muhammed(peace be upon him and his family).Shias don't beat themselves because of grief.I m shia but I dont beat myself.Maybe they beat themselves cause they want 2 show that they will endure everything in the sake Allah as Hz Hussein(pbh)did.Every year remembering his fight against enemies of Allah,I think is very necessary.Also I dont approve beating

 

[Aloosh12]

they are and want to be muslims i dont think they enjoy what they do.. there are reasons behind this

 

[Aloosh12]

god bless you, where you from?

 

[abou haytam]

OK.We shias always mistreated & misnderstood.Our enemies unite,but we can't accept
each other.We both accept Allah & prophet Muhammed(peace be upon him and his family).Shias don't beat themselves because of grief.I m shia but I dont beat myself.Maybe they beat themselves cause they want 2 show that they will endure everything in the sake Allah as Hz Hussein(pbh)did.Every year remembering his fight against enemies of Allah,I think is very necessary.Also I dont approve beating

salam o alikom

are you born shia or converted to ''shia'' i would like to aske you some question if you agree ofcourse . thank you very much.

jazal allah khayran.

 

[Faisal_01]

Sorry mate but that's just so stupid. What kind of an idiot would hit themselves and consider it lawful both islamically and logically? That Shia person should use some common sense and avoid twisting the quranic ayats out of context in order to suit their culture! There are numerous hadiths condemning women (people) who hit themselves and rip their clothes upon bad news.
And Allah sw knows best

I 2nd that.

 

[Aloosh12]

hi im a shiite muslim an old member of this website im so offended now and u made me feel beeter, reaaly what a shame i used to say americans wana cause fitna b/w the sects but it seems there is really a big dislike b/w each other... wheres the unity god... unitte on the " rope of god" but what a shame

 

[Aloosh12]

yes because they enjoy being like that THERE ARE REASONS!!