Want to Know about Shia's

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by Muhammad Shirazi, Jul 22, 2008.

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  1. Muhammad Shirazi
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    Muhammad Shirazi New Member

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    Assalam o alikum
    I Want to ask any body in this room who is capable of answering me with the ahadees of Hazrat Muhammad(P.B.U.H) and with Quranic verses that why shia's are sentensed as Kafir. If you quote ahadees, proove it with The Holy Quran. Other wise no need to post that hadees.
    Plz answer me.
  2. Salem9022
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    Salem9022 Junior Member

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    From the Quran:

    Surah At-Taubah 19:100 And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajiroon (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajiroon) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.

    The Muhaijroon and Ansar included Abu Bakr, Uthman, Aisha etc. May Allah be pleased with them. And Allah said he has Promised them Paradise.

    According to the Shi3a, these people are not going to Jennah, So In other words the Shi3a have rejected the words of Allah when he said he has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow.


    From the Hadith:

    Zahdam ibn Mudrab narrated: I heard 'Imraan ibn Husayn saying: The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said: ((The best people are those living in my generation, then those coming after them, and then those coming after (the second generation).)), [Saheeh al-Bukhaaree, 3/219]

    'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) narrated: The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said: ((The people of my generation are the best, then those who follow them, and then those who follow the latter)), [Saheeh al-Bukhaaree, 3/820]

    'Aa.ishah (radhi-yallaahu 'anhaa) narrated that: A person asked Allaah's Apostle (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) as to who amongst the people were the best. He said: ((Of the generation to which I belong, then of the second generation (generation adjacent to my generation), then of the third generation (generation adjacent to the second generation).)), [Saheeh Muslim 6159]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There are many many other refutations against the Shi3a religion, I can go on forvever but I think you get the Point.
  3. Muhammad Shirazi
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    Muhammad Shirazi New Member

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    The strange things which they did

    Assalam o alikum Brother.
    What do you think of a person who said that we do not need any word from the Prophet P.B.U.H. Quran is with us and the Prophet has lost conciousness.
    Read this

    Book 013, Number 4015:
    Sa'id b. Jubair reported from Ibn Abbas that he said: Thursday, and what about Thursday? Then tears began to flow until I saw them on his cheeks as it they were the strings of pearls. He (the narrator) said that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Bring me a shoulder blade and ink-pot (or tablet and inkpot), so that I write for you a document (by following which) you would never go astray. They said: Allah's Messenger (may peace upon him) is in the state of unconsciousness.


    Book 013, Number 4016:
    Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) could not write (or dictate) the document for them.


    and one more thing. We do not hate hazrat Aisha, hazrat Omar and hazrag Abubakar. We hate the enemies of Hazrat Muhammad P.B.U.H. You just tell me taht why Sora Munafiqoon is in the Quran if every thing was right.


    and what would you say about this Hadees From Sahih Muslim

    Book 013, Number 4013:
    Aswad b. Yazid reported: It was mentioned before A'isha that will had been made (by the Holy Prophet) in favour of 'Ali (as the Prophet's first caliph), whereupon she said: When did he make will in his favour? I had been providing support to him (to the Holy Prophet) with my chest (or with my lap). He asked for a tray, when he fell in my lap (relaxing his body), and I did not realise that he had breathed his last. When did he make any will in his ('Ali's) favour?


    Hazrat Aisha says that Prophet PBUH has left nothing, made no will. Then what is in this hadees.

    Book 013, Number 4009:
    Talha b. Musarrif reported: I asked 'Abdullah b. Abu Aufa whether Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had made any will (in regard to his property). He said: NO. I said: Then why has making of will been made necessary for the Muslims, or why were they commanded to make will? Thereupon he said: He made the will according to the Book of Allah, the Exalted and Majestic.


    And hazrat Aisha is denying that hazrat Muhamamd PBUH has made no will.

    Book 013, Number 4011:
    A'isha reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) left neither dinar nor dirham (wealth in the form of cash), nor goats (and sheep), nor camels. And he made no will about anything (in regard to his material possessions, as he had none)


    All These ahadees are from Sahin Muslim. Kitaab al Wasiyya



    Plz Explain these things.


    And the points u mentiond in your mail is not sufficent. Why shia people dosen't accept hazrat Aisha while they accept and praise Hazrat khadija. Why they reject Hazrat Abubakar and omar while they accept Hazrat Ali. All those persons which no respect among shias are having great respect among Other Muslims. What is this and why is this.
  4. Muhammad Shirazi
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    The strange things which they did

    Assalam o Alikum
    U said that shia's are kafir because they rejeceted hazrat usman and hazrat abu bakar and hazrat aisha.

    but what do you think of hazrat omar who totally denied hazrat Muhamamd pbuh.

    Book 013, Number 4016:
    Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) could not write (or dictate) the document for them.


    Now according to the logic u provided in your mail. think of it again considering the above Quoted hadees.

    According to your logic shia denied hazrat abubakar, usman and hazrat aisha that why they are kafir. but hazrat omar denied the Prophet Pbuh. So what he is...............
  5. Achmat_Samsodien
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    Achmat_Samsodien Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    Dear Brother

    One thing you MUST know about ALL the Ambiyaa of Allah is that they leave no inheritance whatsoever. Before the prophet passed he was going in and out of consciousness and while this happened he woke and asked 'Aishah RAHA if he had any money left, she replied that he had 7 dinaar and then he said that she should get rid of it because a Nabie of Allah leaves nothing behind when it comes to material possessions. That is something Allah gave to his Ambiyaa, we however MUST produce wills as it is in the Qur'aan.
  6. Idris16
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    Information about the Shi’ah
    We are in urgent need of information about the differences between the Sunnis and Shi’is. We hope that you can explain something about their beliefs?.


    Praise be to Allaah.

    The Shi’ah have many sects. Some of them are kaafirs who worship ‘Ali and call upon him, and they worship Faatimah, al-Husayn and others. Some of them say that Jibreel (peace be upon him) betrayed the trust and the Prophethood belonged to ‘Ali, not to Muhammad. There are also others among them, such as the Imamiyyah – the Raafidi Ithna ‘Ashari – who worship ‘Ali and say that their imams are better than the angels and Prophets.

    There are many groups among them; some are kaafirs and some are not kaafirs. The mildest among them are those who say that ‘Ali was better than the three (Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan). The one who says this is not a kaafir but he is mistaken, because ‘Ali was the fourth, and Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan were better than him. If a person prefers him over them then he is erring and is going against the consensus of the Sahaabah, but he is not a kaafir. The Shi’ah are of different levels and types. The one who wants to know more about that may refer to the books of the scholars, such as al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb [available in English under the same title, translated by Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips], Manhaaj al-Sunnah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, and other books that have been written on this topic, such as al-Shi’ah wa’l-Sunnah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer [also available in English translation] and many other books which explain their errors and evils – we ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

    Among the most evil of them are the Imamis, Ithna ‘Asharis and Nusayris, who are called al-Raafidah because they rejected (rafadu) Zayd ibn ‘Ali when he refused to disavow the two Shaykhs Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, so they went against him and rejected him. Not everyone who claims to be a Muslim can be accepted as such. If a person claims to be a Muslim, his claim should be examined. The one who worships Allaah alone and believes in His Messenger, and follows that which he brought, is a real Muslim. If a person claims to be a Muslim but he worships Faatimah or al-Badawi or al-‘Aydaroos or anyone else, then he is not a Muslim. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly, anyone who reviles the faith, or does not pray, even if he says that he is a Muslim, is not a Muslim. The same applies to anyone who mocks the faith or mocks the prayer or zakaah or fasting or Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or who disbelieves in him, or says that he was ignorant or that he did not convey the message in full or convey the message clearly. All such people are kaafirs. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.



    Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (28/257).
  7. MUHAMM7D
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    MUHAMM7D Muslim

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  8. dna1987
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    Salam alaikum.

    There are many people (Muslims) out there who have said the Shahada, but don't pray. Or think that they don't have to pray 5 prayers a day. Or think that it's ok to drink alcohol in moderate amounts. There are plenty. There are verses in the Quran that forbid those actions. So in other words, these people have rejected the words of Allah. Are all these people kafirs as well, or misguided? Beware of calling people kafirs once they have firmly stated the Shahada (which is "there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad peace be upon him is His slave and messenger" )
  9. MUHAMM7D
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    MUHAMM7D Muslim

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    :salam2:

    Akhi you are right, there are plenty of shia people that don't know what they are doin, they are just following what they see, you cannot call them kafir because they are misguided, but in the other hand there are the ones that have knowledge such as the imams and the leaders and their students, you can call them kafir because they are aware of everything, and so are the shia's in Saudi-Arabia.

    Allah knows best.

    :wasalam:
  10. Imad
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    Imad Junior Member

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    Assalamoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh,

    My advice to Muhammad Shirazi is to study the sunna. My advice to other brothers and sisters is not to continue this debate.
    Why? Because Many members are not able to follow your debate. Some of the members are non-muslims and others are new to islam.

    If someone really wants to know something about the sunna, he has to listen to scholars, read and study.

    You have many people who insult the Quran and the sunna. One of this people in Holland is Geert wilders who made the film 'Fitna'.

    Geert Wilders has used his own imagination to give a misinterpretation of the Quran and this is also the same with the sunna.

    First of all many of the members ( i think) don't know the arabic language. They depend on the translation. Second they don't have the amount of knowledge to a have normal conversation in regard of this topic. Many of us are using other websites, which means they copy the information and post it on this website.

    So please go and study the ahadieth and the Quran. If you really want the truth with your heart, you will get the truth. Allah azawajal is Rahiem.

    Wassalamoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh
  11. mezeren
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    :salam2:

    dear brother,

    if what you understand from the above hadith is "hazrat omar denied the Prophet Pbuh" there is something wrong in your understanding.Omar(r.a.) did not deny the Prophet(sav) but he thought the prophet's illness was so heavy that he could write something He(sav) did not intend while he was unconscious.

    remember the Prophet of islam was a human who ate,drunk,got ill just like any of us.He was not a superhuman.plus,after that incident He(sav) lived some more time and got better just before He(sav) died.so,if He(sav) had been to write down the name of Ali(r.a.) he had had enough time for it.And if that had been his intention and what Allah ordered him to do then no one could have stopped him.

    if you know the life of the Prophet(sav) then you should also know that in a couple of occasions Omar(r.a.) expressed his opinions which was contrary to Prophet(sav)' opinion and when the Prophet(sav) did what He(sav) thought was right,Allah sent His warnings to the Prophet(sav) that Omar(r.a.) was right on the matter.

    Omar(ra),Abu Bakr(ra) and Aisha(ra) were praised by Allah in the Quran and they spent their life with the prophet.Shia claims that Allah :astag: is wrong and the prophet was unable to choose his friends.May Allah show them and us the right path,amen.
  12. Mumin01
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    Any shiite who believes

    Ash hadu an LA ILLAHA ILL ALLAH, wa ash hadu MUHAMMAD RASUL ALLAH

    is a muslims however, after that what they believe in terms of the sahaba ect. is up to them to believe and becoming a kaffir because of it isnt up for us to decide but Allah, Al Hakim


    Every muslim, and i sincerely mean this, every muslim should have a deep respect and love for the Prophet PBUH and his companions, the prophet PBUH even told us to love his companions, Abu Bakur, Umar, Uthman, Ali ( may Allah be pleased with them all) all are owed our respect and love especiially Abu Bakr who was the Prophets PBUH Best friend since the start, to the end of his mission, Abu Bakr (RA) gave all that he had for the sake of Allah and His Messenger,

    the fact is is that the split between shia and sunni was at first political, meaning for the most part they had the same aqeedah, now over the ages its been a flux of changes in aqeedah on the shia part. most shia are raised from a young age to hate Sunni's, Its a fact,


    But we as muslims have no right to call another muslim a kafr, All Muslims need to follow is the Quran and Sunnah

    my 2 cents

    peace
  13. mohammeduk
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    salam,

    well shias were probably not there at the time of our prophet, but they hyprocites and doubters as similar to shias.

    shias believe in shirks, u need to look at the components of shias and what they do and it clearly shows that it is shirk

    if i am sunni but i believe in things are shirk then i would be classed in the sameway as shias

    the name doesnt or what group you are from in islam but if you belive in shirk stuff then thats the problem and most shias people do just that

    quran does not mention any such groups. so try not use quran to justifty shias acts as soon as you read about islam and god and then compare what shias believe then straight away u will know clearly why they are classed as kuffars by many muslims

    there are a lot of inventions in many muslim groups even in non shias, there acts are classified as kufar acts, but these groups are not mentioned in the quran

    some shias belive and say quran is corrupt so i dont know why u bother asking people that question when shias dont really follow or believe in the quran
  14. a_muslimah86
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    a_muslimah86 Hubbi Li Rabbi Staff Member

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    :salam2:

    The brother is right..Shia'as who are called Kafirs are the Imams and leaders...the people (especially those illiterate..and/or living in rural areas) are considered misguided and a Sunni is supposed to even give them Da'awa...and this is something which many Sunni Shaikhs and Muftis have said...

    As for Shia'as and their Shi'i beliefs...just two days ago in another forum...a sister asked one little innocent question about a brother who'd been guided and had become a Sunni and wishes to propose to her...and all the Shi'a girls on the forum attacked her (they were Saudi and Bahraini Shia'as) and immediately began to insult our Shaikhs and the Sahaba (may Allah be pleased with all of them)...everyone was puzzled..as NOTHING INSULTING had been said...but yet they went-off on everyone!!!...this is an example of their grudges which come out every time they speak to Sunnis...I was disgusted by it to say the least..and for the entire day I was in a state of shock..because the Sahaba were insulted in my presence for the first time EVER!..

    Anyway...I do not need to read very much into the history and the beliefs of the Shi'as (which I have done) or into the 'Sahaba issue' to know they are deviated...to me it's simple...

    Anybody ascribing *Alayhi Assalam* (peace be upon him) to a man such as Khomeini (who encourages some very ALIEN and DISTURBING ACTS which a Muslim would not dare think about!)...I will have a difficult time thinking that he is a Muslim with a correct Aqeedah...and that's aside from the bigger problem...the INFALLIBILITY of IMAMS...that's another thing that makes me tick and firmly believe that Shi'as are MISGUIDED!

    Besides...when you sit down and do a little 'compare/contrast' session...you will see a very disturbing resemblance of CATHOLICISM in Shi'ism!!!

    I can go on and on..but I think I am better off dedicating my time listening to a lecture by a Shaikh than discussing these beliefs and reminding myself of all the negative encounters with Shi'as I wish to forget..because they really offend me!...

    May Allah Guide Them (before it's too late)..that's all I have to say


    :wasalam:
  15. Zafran
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    Zafran Muslim Brother

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    Salaam

    I thought the prophet of God was illiterate??? if this is the case then what does the hadith where the prophet wants to write a document mean? Is it authentic?
  16. Salem9022
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    Yes they are Kaffir, if they rejected the words of Allah, but it is another thing to do it out of Ignorance, for instance if the person does not know, then it is only a matter of Ignorance. But if the Person rejects the words of Allah then definetaly he is a Kaffir even a Single verse of it from the Qur'an.
  17. Salem9022
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    If this was something Political then all of this would have been settled along time ago.

    The Shi3a religion is anything but Political. The Shi3a religion was founded by Abdullah Ibn Sabah who was a Jew from Yemen. He went to Iraq and later to Egypt and started to preach to the people that Ali Should have been the Khilafah and later on he started to preach that Ali was God Himself. He wanted to destroy the Muslims from within that is why he created this religion called Shi3ism which has noting to do with Islam whats so ever. Read more upon Abdullah ibn Sabah the Originator of the Shi3a religion.
  18. Mumin01
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    i didnt say it was purely political i said that it started out as being political you clearly misread my post, i said that at first the Shia ( party of Ali) began as a movement to try and get support for Ali (RA) as being the kaliph, then afterward it became a religious schism, and not all Shia believe that Ali radi Allahu Anhu is God incarnate or something of the sort, most just view Ali and his family ( may Allah be pleased with them) in extremely high regard and love to the exten where the do heinous and haram things and like to give takfir on anyone besides themselves You cant go around saying all shias believe this and all shias are kaffirs and what not, dont get me wrong i completely reject Shiism and consider it nothin more than misguidance but you have to watch what you say brother

    salaam
  19. amirah80
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    amirah80 *Fear Allah*

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    :salam2:

    Jazak Allah khair for the posting.

    I wanted to ask a question as well because I am a little confused about shia muslims.

    I see here they are being called the kuffaar but are they? For my understanding is that they believe in the 5 pillars of Islam and after that comes the differences. But to be muslim you must accept the five pillars of Islam correct? Then from there if they do not believe are they kuffaar or just muslims who are sinning that will receive punishment? If someone can enlighten me please because I heard some say kuffaar and I read some sheikhs say they are muslims but not approve of everything they believe.

    Salam Amirah80
  20. Mumin01
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    it really depends on you opinion




    i myself consider them muslims to a certaine extent who are just not following the guidance of the Sunnah, and in some cases the Quran, and so they are deeply misguided

    Allahu Alam
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