Where are those christians today

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by Boanerges, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Boanerges
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    Boanerges New Member

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    Quran 3:55

    i allah will make those who follow Thee (Jesus) superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection.

    The verse clearly says that the followers of Jesus will be superior to those who reject the faith (the message of the Gospel of salvation)

    It does not include any other prophets name, Secondly it says "until the day of resurrection" the resurrection is still a future event... If those christians don't exist anymore then allah failed to keep his promise. (If this is not a promise) then it simply means that allah's words cannot be trusted, because he (allah the god of islam) said the followers of Jesus will be superior.

    One translation says "those who follow thee" [in submission to allah]

    There is not a single shred of historical evidence that christians followed Jesus in submission to allah. (There are no record in history of such christians)

    If these christians did exist and they were overpowered and their message changed, then allah's word failed because the verse clearly says "until the day of resurrection"

    Where are those christians today?


    The only christians that exist today believe exactly the same thing as those who followed Jesus while He was on earth, and it is as follows.

    (1) Jesus died on the cross
    (2) Jesus rose from the dead
    (3) Jesus is divine

    Conclusion:

    allah, the god of islam and Yahweh the God of the bible is not the same "God".
  2. Mabsoot
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    Mabsoot Amir Staff Member

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    Firstly, Allah is a name, and a key means to "dialogue" is to show respect. You are setting off on a bad foot, if you keep purposefully writing the name with a small letter. It also shows you are here with your own narrow minded agenda.

    Secondly, you have a habit of having a misunderstanding of ayahs. The meaning of that Ayah is about the Christians at the time of Jesus, - it holds true till the Day of Judgement that they are superior to the ones who rejected the faith. You added those words in brackets."(the message of the Gospel of salvation)" - Jesus was a Muslim, he prayed to God alone, and his followers did too.

    Lastly, you are right, Allah is the One who was worshipped by Jesus and all the Prophets of God. The Christians today have placed partners with Him, and unfortunately as in your case, are totally abandoning Him by worshipping Jesus. This is neither what God nor Jesus would want.
  3. Ummah 99
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    Ummah 99 Junior Member

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    Here is the full meaning of the verse you mentioned, I hope you understand its full meaning. Isa (AS) himself talked of the arrival of Prophet Muhammad (saw.) and we should follow him as his Ummahs!

    (3:55) (And it was part of His scheme) when Allah said: 'O Jesus! I will recall you51 and raise you up to Me and will purify you (of the company) of those who disbelieve,52 and will set your followers above the unbelievers till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me you shall return, and I will judge between you regarding what you differed.

    51. The expression used is mutawaffika. The original meaning of tawaffa is to take and receive. To 'seize a person's sou!' constitutes the figurative rather than the literal meaning of the word. Here the word is used in the sense of 'recall', for example, the recall of an official from his work. The Israelites had persisted in their disobedience, and despite repeated warnings and admonitions their collective behaviour had become increasingly corrupt. They had killed a succession of Prophets and were out to shed the blood of all those who invited them to righteousness and moral rectitude. In order to complete His argument against them, and to give them a last chance to reform themselves, God sent to them two great Prophets, Jesus and John the Baptist. These Prophets carried with them such overwhelming proof of their designation by God that no ground was left for anyone to disbelieve in them, except those who were obstinately hostile to the Truth and who had become exceedingly bold in their opposition to it.

    Yet the Israelites let this last opportunity slip away. They not only spurned the message of the Prophets but also brazenly indulged in many other atrocious crimes. One of their chiefs had John beheaded at the behest of a dancing girl, and their priests and scribes conspired to have Jesus put to death by the Roman authorities. Further admonition would have been a sheer waste of time. God, therefore, decided to recall His Prophet and condemned the Israelites to perpetual disgrace.

    It should be noted that this whole discourse (verses 3: 33 ff.) is devoted to repudiating the Christian belief in the godhead of Jesus, and to reforming their beliefs. The main reasons for the spread of these false beliefs were: (i) the miraculous birth of Jesus; (ii) the miracles which he performed; and (iii) his ascension into heaven (which is mentioned categorically in the Christian scriptures). The Qur'an confirms the miraculous birth of Jesus and asserts that this fatherless birth is a manifestation of God's omnipotence. God creates whomsoever He wills and in the manner He chooses. This extraordinary birth neither proves that Jesus was God nor that he had any share in God's godhead. The miracles of Jesus are also verified by the Qur'an; in fact it enumerates them one by one. The Qur'an, however, makes it clear that Jesus performed these miracles in accordance with God's will, and not of his own innate power.

    Had the traditions cherished by the Christians regarding Jesus' ascension into heaven been without foundation, they would have been told that he whom they regarded as either God or the son of God had died long ago and become part of the earth, and that if they wanted to satisfy themselves on that score they could go and witness for themselves his grave at a certain place. But not only does the Qur'an not make any categorical statement that Jesus died, it employs an expression which, to say the least, contains the possibility of being interpreted as meaning that he had been raised into heaven alive. Further, the Qur'an tells the Christians that Jesus, contrary to their belief, was not crucified. This means that the man who cried out at the end of his life: 'Eli, Eli, lama sabach-thani?', that is, 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?' (Matthew 27: 46), and the one whose image was seen on the cross was not Christ; God had already raised Christ into heaven.

    As for those who try to interpret these Qur'anic verses as indicating the death of Jesus, they actually prove only that God is incapable of expressing His ideas in clear, lucid terms.

    52. The words 'those who disbelieve' here refer to the Jews whom Jesus had invited to believe, and who had refused that invitation. The expression: 'your followers', if it denotes the true followers of Jesus, can only mean Muslims. Should 'followers' signify all those who profess allegiance to Jesus, it would include both Christians and Muslims.

    Source: http://www.islamicstudies.info
  4. Boanerges
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    Boanerges New Member

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    (1) I refuse to write that name with a capital letter, i don't serve your god.

    (2) likewise you have a very distorted view of the bible.

    (3) i did not say Jesus worshiped allah... Did satan cast those words on your tongue? (Like satan did with your prophet, (the satanic verses that were deleted from the quran)

    (4) my question is simple, show me a group of christians that follow Jesus in submission to allah.

    (5) i am a born again christian and believe me, i worship the Lord Jesus Christ (He is the creator of the universe) i do not submit to your god.
  5. Mabsoot
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    You don't seem to follow logic or clear evidences. You have made your own assumptions, and explain the Quran based on those assumptions rather than what is actually written.

    There are no "Christians" today who follow Jesus's teachings, nor are there any that worship God alone.
    What passes beyond your thick skin is the invention of the Trinity which came from Greek paganism to "Christianity". The notion, or rather the doctrine of trinity did not enter Christianity except in the fourth century AD, when Athanasius, an Egyptian monk from Alexandria, constructed this theory, which was approved by the first and second Ecumenical Councils. Many historical documents confirm this. It was later added to (Council Nicaea, Council of Constantinople) debated and by 381 after a vote, made into your modern "Christian" beliefs. Now those, are the facts. Thereupon you are set, and your eyes blind to how you can breathe the name of worshipping "God", "Jesus" in the same breath.

    P.S Due to your lies and contempt shown in your posts, you're not welcome here any longer.

    May Allah guide you.
  6. Mabsoot
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    Mabsoot Amir Staff Member

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    Deleted the last two posts from Boanerges.

    SubhanAllah (All glory belongs to Allah), I am not going to allow someone to write offensive posts. If you are going to speak about Islam, do so with facts - rather than the oft-repeated fictional nonsense spread by the Christian missionary sites. There is no way of having "dialogue" if a person believes in anti-Muslim fairytales. Once, twice, but to keep bringing fictitious ideas that have no relevance to Islam leaves me no choice but to delete and ban. Why? because not everyone wants to read such drivel.

    My advice to Christians, Jews and other truth seekers is to be sincere. Check up on facts, and ask Muslims to explain what Islam is about.
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  7. AbuKhalid
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    #1 A name starts with a capital letter ... English grammar rules dictate!

    #2 You dont have an original bible to begin with

    #3 Jesus is only a servant who worshipped his Lord, read your bible again. And that Lord is Allah as mentioned in the coptic bible:

    فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالارْضَ Genesis 1:1, In the beginning, Allah created ...

    #4 see #3

    #5 based on the points discussed above, if you aint submitting to Allah, you aint guided
    • Ma sha Allah! Ma sha Allah! x 1

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