Why polygamy - answer to Diane

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Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
Sorry I've prepared a lengthy answer to Diane only to discover that her thread has been removed. I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this.

Salam Diane

It was inevitable that you asked this question. I'll give you a *concise* answer but please note there are lots of stuff out there from respected scholars.

1. Polygamy:

a. established practice before Islam. In the bible some prophets had hundreds of wives. At the time of the prophet in Arabia, there was no upper limits to the number of wives - Islam restricted this to 4. Ironically, as much as Islam is criticised today for allowing this, at that time it is very conceivable that many rejected Islam for the same reason but with opposite logic (i.e. restricting the maximum). Men who had more than 4 wives had to divorce the extra. This rather tells you Islam is not about pleasing people's desires or being *popular*. It is a divine law that is designed to protect and promote good manners.

b. Why polygamy? Well ... basic statistics really. World wide, there are more boys born than girls (circa 103 for a 100). The number of deaths in males is higher than that in females. The numbers keep getting closer until it balances out at about 30 years of age, following this the number of women becomes consistently higher than that for men in every age group. Over all, there are more women that men in most societies. For the UK, a country of nearly 60 million, there are nearly 1 million females than males for all age groups. These statistics pertain to a developed coutry in a relatively peaceful time (UK). I'll leave you to imagine what things can be like in war times. The only countries in the world where the number of males is greater than females are countries that practice something called female infanticide (mostly done on fetuses thanks to advances in medical ultra-sound), something Islam forbidden 1400 years ago. The practice is prevalent in the two most populist countriess in the world (India & China - thanks to Hindusim, Communism (single child policy) and Buddhism .. of course). In India, the numbers killed are estimated to be in the tens of millions. In some places in China there are nearly 70 women for every 100 men. Indeed, the proportions of the massacre are staggering but NO one is talking about it because they are too busy demonising Islam.

c. Islam does not encourage polygamy, quite the opposite. However it is permitted out of necessity of the human society. What are the alternatives for those women ? Is it not the right of every woman to be a wife & a mother ? Why should they be thrown to the depths of adultery and the humilliation that comes with it ? Please note that the number of women surpass that of women after 30 years of age, when the woman is rather more vulnerable and has got less "buying power" (the term is not meant to be deragatory). Being a wife gives the woman in Islam certain priviliges, such as financial and social security. These are basic needs and it is only right that every woman has them.

If this survive, I'll try answering your question about slavery.
 

dianek

Junior Member
And I get that whole statistical stuff but. Where is it written that a woman's purpose is only to be a wife or mother or that she even HAS to do either of the 2...as a woman......I mean in todays world....I can care for myself, I can provide for myself, I don't have to be a wife or mother.....and maybe because I am older, I do not have "desire" for that "intimate" relationship...I can take it or leave it......so if I were not married for me I would think that would be okay and one could still be chaste....so why would one marry to share with others in this time in history. I guess it is all relevant to the time frame. I guess......

I will be honest, as a christian I never read nor understood all the Bible......but knew what men did were of men's desires in the Bible. So I guess I never understood Christianity as saying "it was ok to have 100 wives".....

Please forgive me if I offend anyone...but coming from my logic.....it would just seem this practice would be responsible for a lot of murders......of passion and jealousy.....and sure I wish for my sisters what I have for myself...but not for them to have the same person as me.....
 
And I get that whole statistical stuff but. Where is it written that a woman's purpose is only to be a wife or mother or that she even HAS to do either of the 2...as a woman......I mean in todays world....I can care for myself, I can provide for myself, I don't have to be a wife or mother.....and maybe because I am older, I do not have "desire" for that "intimate" relationship...I can take it or leave it......so if I were not married for me I would think that would be okay and one could still be chaste....so why would one marry to share with others in this time in history. I guess it is all relevant to the time frame. I guess......

I will be honest, as a christian I never read nor understood all the Bible......but knew what men did were of men's desires in the Bible. So I guess I never understood Christianity as saying "it was ok to have 100 wives".....

Please forgive me if I offend anyone...but coming from my logic.....it would just seem this practice would be responsible for a lot of murders......of passion and jealousy.....and sure I wish for my sisters what I have for myself...but not for them to have the same person as me.....

Polygamy might be prohibited. But Ive never met a muslim man who had
more than one wife.

Seriously: One wife is more than enough.
 
Salaam,

It's funny how a lot of Westerners questions the concept of polygamy yet they tolerate concubinage & prostitution!!

The Bible allows multiple wives (I Kings 11:3). In the Quran, Allah swt limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife's permission) and prefers you marry only one wife (Quran 4:3) The Quran gives the woman
the right to choose who to marry.
 

dianek

Junior Member
Salaam,

It's funny how a lot of Westerners questions the concept of polygamy yet they tolerate concubinage & prostitution!!

The Bible allows multiple wives (I Kings 11:3). In the Quran, Allah swt limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife's permission) and prefers you marry only one wife (Quran 4:3) The Quran gives the woman
the right to choose who to marry.

Well, i don't approve of either of the items you listed...but it happens....just as there are harams in other countries. But SANE, civilized women I think would be opposed strongly to polygamy...

And the permission statement....I have read some say with permission some say it is good manors to ask but NOT required to ask permission.
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
And I get that whole statistical stuff but. Where is it written that a woman's purpose is only to be a wife or mother or that she even HAS to do either of the 2...as a woman......I mean in todays world....I can care for myself, I can provide for myself, I don't have to be a wife or mother.....and maybe because I am older, I do not have "desire" for that "intimate" relationship...I can take it or leave it......so if I were not married for me I would think that would be okay and one could still be chaste....so why would one marry to share with others in this time in history. I guess it is all relevant to the time frame. I guess......

I will be honest, as a christian I never read nor understood all the Bible......but knew what men did were of men's desires in the Bible. So I guess I never understood Christianity as saying "it was ok to have 100 wives".....

Please forgive me if I offend anyone...but coming from my logic.....it would just seem this practice would be responsible for a lot of murders......of passion and jealousy.....and sure I wish for my sisters what I have for myself...but not for them to have the same person as me.....

sorry, my answer got deleted somehow ... here we go again

Getting married is of course not a must. Forced marriages are prohibited in Islam. However, this would be the exception not the rule. Getting married and building a family is only natural for both men and women. In that context, polygamy will give women who do want to get married more *bargaining power*.

It is not true that polygamy will lead to more murder although I accept the jealousy POV. However, facts are facts. In some studies nearly 70% of married women in the West have had an affair. Why is that ? because of the moral decline of course but although because of the AVAILABILITY of many women who could not have satisfied their natural desires without commiting adultery due to the lack of a committed husband. I cant remember the number of women killed everyday in US but it did look pretty high. most of these murders are commited by a partner ... even though the USA does not allow polygamy ... so there.

I know personal success stories of polygamous marriages. In the abscence of social stigma and a loving and just husband, things can be pretty smooth. It is not an ideal situation and it is not for everyone. It is a treatment for a certain condition and every treatment has side effects, the question is does benefit outweight the side effects ? I think the answer can be very personal and the Islamic system gives the society this flexibility. Just think about it ... imagine a 1000 men going to war from a village of 2000 and only half of them coming back. What options are there for the women of that village?

Women can surely look after themselves but I'd argue that being a mom and looking after the family is a tough job and a good proportions of women would not be able to do it single handedly. Modern society glorifies working, glamourous women (which is exactly what lustful men want, easily available women without the financial & social burden that marriage entails - it is a con if you ask me) while motherhood is seen as a second class option and a "life style" rather than being natural. This defies our basic instincts.
 
Well, i don't approve of either of the items you listed...but it happens....just as there are harams in other countries. But SANE, civilized women I think would be opposed strongly to polygamy...

And the permission statement....I have read some say with permission some say it is good manors to ask but NOT required to ask permission.


Salaam,

Polygamy is NOT haram. There is wisdom behind what God has set forth. Personally, I have not come across any Muslim who has practiced it. I, myself, prefer to marry only one wife. Polgamy is prohibited from just seeking sexual pleasures. Some situations where it is common is during times of war or if a woman is barren and can not produce children. Please watch this, inshallah your knowledge will broaden:


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Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
about the wife's permission ...

I'd ask ... if a husband of a western woman wanted to marry some one else, what options has she got ?

1. convince him not to do so
2. get divorced

and if a muslim woman was in the same situation ...

1. convince him not to do so
2. get divorced
3. become a part of a polygamous marriage

so there you go, in practice it empowers the woman with more options. Being a wife will at least give her financial and social security, which is a privilige denied to many women in this world.

Please think outside your personal circumstances. Islam is for every time and every place. It needs this flexibility of dealing with different conditions.
 

dianek

Junior Member
about the wife's permission ...

I'd ask ... if a husband of a western woman wanted to marry some one else, what options has she got ?

1. convince him not to do so
2. get divorced

and if a muslim woman was in the same situation ...

1. convince him not to do so
2. get divorced
3. become a part of a polygamous marriage

so there you go, in practice it empowers the woman with more options. Being a wife will at least give her financial and social security, which is a privilige denied to many women in this world.

Please think outside your personal circumstances. Islam is for every time and every place. It needs this flexibility of dealing with different conditions.


As for me if I am not enough or good enough for my husband that he needs someone else......then I choose DIVORCE hands down! It doesn't empower them with more options......if they have any sense of self-worth, they would tell that man to take his stuff and get out! If I am not good enough ALONE for him, I don't want him anyway......just my WESTERN prospective.

As far as Women and their natural "desires".........nothing chocolate won't cure........I don't think women "desire" men like one might think.......in my experience....we are just doing another chore......like washing dishes.....
again sorry if I offend.
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
As for me if I am not enough or good enough for my husband that he needs someone else......then I choose DIVORCE hands down! It doesn't empower them with more options......if they have any sense of self-worth, they would tell that man to take his stuff and get out! If I am not good enough ALONE for him, I don't want him anyway......just my WESTERN prospective.

As far as Women and their natural "desires".........nothing chocolate won't cure........I don't think women "desire" men like one might think.......in my experience....we are just doing another chore......like washing dishes.....
again sorry if I offend.

You did not offend me at all. In fact, you may have noticed that your posts are quite popular due -in part- to your style in discussing things. You have a bubbly personality (a guess) and a straight-forward way in discussing matters that I appreciate .

Your *Western* atttitude is based on the notion that a husband with few affairs is better than a husband with another wife. This underlying argument is really inevitable giving the *numbers*. In Islam adulterty is a major sin and demeaning to the woman and to the whole concept of family. Go down the route of adultery and prostitution becomes a natural end. Islam does not tolerate that FOR THE SAKE OF WOMEN.

Bottom line: there is enough space in Islam for your personal preferences, but Islam is designed for a much wider purpose, hence the polygamy rule.

I'm sure you would not trade your husband and 4 kids for anything in the world .... so there.
 
sister talk better with an imam , because none of us is a scholar.SO its always better to do dua and ask scholars about such matter where you are not able to use your logic.

And the human being dont have enough logic to understand the logic of God.
through discussions people can accept it but there are a few things which is out of human being logics.

And personally i am even affraid to marry once!
because the right of a wife soooo much i cant count it down.And those who are not able to give his wifes right they will be punished also in qiyamah.
 
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