Which group should I belong to ? No one

facethetruth

Junior Member
When I talk to people, many will jump and tell me you are ikhwan, salafi...etc I am nothing but Muslim but to be fair every sect has their pros and cons so I will list them for you to know what to pick and what to leave: Here are some of the major Pros and Cons

1- Salafies they are into 3 major groups
All of them follow the way the prophet prayers and peace be upon him looked
a- Jihadi Pros, they fight and do Jihad, Brave, much better than the way media shows them for example they are nice to some captures. Cons Takfeer they vary though some of them extreme and others not, They dont distinguish between Akeeda and Fiqh some of them like Khawarij, They just follow their shaikhs without them reading
b- Modkhali Pros; They have strong knowledge and they have a lot of fiqh and so on Cons The leader is almost a God we have to follow him whether it is Haram or Halal and they have hypocrisy like know at the time of Mubarak it is Haram to go against but it is Ok against Mursi
c- Ilmi (From knowledge) They are in the middle they are not brave to do Jihad but they also dont say what the leader wants them to say but rather keep quite. Pros they have more knowledge than all the other sects, I noticed that many of them whoever they belong to have sincereity problem and like to show off their bravery or knowldge but some are very good and I have many friends among them.

Brotherhood: Pros they work hard and not just making the religion in the Masjid, They are educated and some are wealthy such Othman ibn Afan and Abd Alrahman ibn Awf, Cons they make haram Halal for politics sake for example shaving the beard, they also are very light in many of things such music ..etc We saw Mursi shaking hands with women and looking at them...etc

Sufi: They share the cons with Brotherhood add to that inivation which is a disaster...etc Cons they focus on the heart and keeping the intention right and take out arrogance and love to the dunia

Shia, Many are not even Muslims some are like Zaidiay too many to talk about them around 12 sects by themselves

Ahmadiay: Not Muslims they say there is a prophet after our prophet prayers and peace be upon him

Tahrir: They have big problems they can make anything halal including a girlfriend

Ahbash like tahrir and have weird stuff such the earth is flat

Conclusion take the pros of every sect and leave the cons and call yourself a Muslim. Raise your faith with doing more good deeds leaving and repenting from sins and seeking knowledge to APPLY it. Remember Allah called us Muslims in the Quran thats it. Prayers and blessings on our beloved prophet Muhammad.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
wa alaykum salam,

No Groupers: Pros, they think a lot, like gaining knowledge, Negs: They take from every sect, don't have clear authentic base for their knowledge, use their own intellect at expense of established islamic rulings, end up making conclusions that have no basis on Quran and Sunnah.

Welcome to the site brother, interesting post. I have to say I disagree with some of your points and your understanding.

We do not take from groups or sects brother. What you stated above, is your own "manhaj", methodology. The correct methodology, according to the Quran and Sunnah is just to take from the Quran and the Sunnah! and to understand it according to the early Muslims. When people do not do these things, they end up splitting and creating division.

We should not follow any sect, or declare ourselves to be inside a sect. However, we aspire to be from the Saved Sect. The Prophet Muhammad (S) said there will be 73 sects, all of them in the fire except one. The sahaba asked him who they are, and he replied they are those who follow his way and that of his companions. So it is clear we follow the Quran and Sunnah.

(edit, got to go now, be back to reply in sha Allah)
 

facethetruth

Junior Member
I agree with this. Brother the problem is every group say "The correct methodology, according to the Quran and Sunnah is just to take from the Quran and the Sunnah!"

For me Alhamdolilah everything is clear and everything is from the quran and the sunnah, and what proves my point that the way of companions was with "no title" just Muslims.

The reason I have listed the pros and cons to be fair because usually when you see two of these groups arguing they will focus on each others negatives without stating the positives.

Conclusion all the pros that they have are from the Quran and Sunnah and all the cons are not from the Quran and the sunnah. Jazak Allah Khair
 

Hassan

Laa ilaha ilaa Allah
Staff member
... usually when you see two of these groups arguing they will focus on each others negatives without stating the positives.
This is almost universal, and I don't mean just between sects or even religions, but wherever mankind discusses differences
Conclusion all the pros that they have are from the Quran and Sunnah and all the cons are not from the Quran and the sunnah.
I think you just answered the question
For me Alhamdolilah everything is clear and everything is from the quran and the sunnah, and what proves my point that the way of companions was with "no title" just Muslims.
Alhamdulillah.

Welcome to TTI brother. If you don't find your answers here, just ask and we will try to answer, in shaa Allah.
May Allah guide us all and keep us upon the straight path.
Salaam alaikum
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Proud No Grouper here. Just be Muslim, akhi. That's it. There's no need to adhere to a particular sect as long as you follow the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (s.a.w.). Everything else just further complicates an otherwise simple process.
 

Abu Loren

Defender of Islam!
We are Muslims khalas. If people want to call us names let them do that.

I am sorry but I disagree with you. We are not all Muslims, those deviant sects should not be called Muslims. The Shi'a for example elevate Ali (RA) to the position that only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala deserves. And we all know about the Sufi's and grave worship, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) specifically warned about grave worship and they do it nonetheless as if the Prophet's words do not matter.

Also to a non Muslim all these sects are MUSLIMS but they must be made aware of the differences. Most do not know the difference between Sunni's and Shi'as etc.
 

facethetruth

Junior Member
I am sorry but I disagree with you. We are not all Muslims, those deviant sects should not be called Muslims. The Shi'a for example elevate Ali (RA) to the position that only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala deserves. And we all know about the Sufi's and grave worship, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) specifically warned about grave worship and they do it nonetheless as if the Prophet's words do not matter.

Agree

Also to a non Muslim all these sects are MUSLIMS but they must be made aware of the differences. Most do not know the difference between Sunni's and Shi'as etc.

But we can avoid all of that without calling ourselves something and know that there are many people on the right path even they dont call themselves anything. I have a Sufi friend who does not worship grave, does not do Bidaas and eventually left the whole thing and does not call himself anything. The same thing with Salafies and so on..
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
Assalamu alaykum

The matter is much deeper than simply saying we do not belong to a sect. We should aspire to belonging to the Saved Sect, as this is something mentioned by the Prophet Muhammad :saw: .

We should be careful to speak about a matter without fully researching and understanding it. Saying there are No sects or that we should not belong to any sect, contradicts the teachings of the Quran and authentic sunnah. It also opens the doors for further confusion and is indeed a sin, due to the person saying something that opposes Islamic teachings. According to the Quran and Sunnah, we know that there are sects, all of which are incorrect and destined for the hellfire except one. Further explanation is given in the fatwa below.

Whilst we should not create any party or group, we should definitely want to be amongst the saved sect. The only way to be in such a way is by following the Quran and the Sunnah, we are in sha Allah following in the direction that keeps us in the right way, to be amongst the Saved Sect in sha Allah. -- Again logically, if following the Quran and Sunnah with the understanding of the early Muslims is the principle of being in the Saved Sect, then in other words that is our "manhaj" methodology. If I say I am following the Salafi manhaj, or from Ahlus Sunnah, it does not mean I am in a sect with that name, but it puts a clear stance on how I understand my Islam. - Grave worship, Saint worship, deviant aqeedah beliefs such as wahdatul wujud etc are not a part of that manhaj. Yet it is very much a part of the deviant sects.

Question: Does the statement of Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) regarding divisions in his Ummah apply to the the creeds, sects, and denominations that exist today? Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected. and this other Hadith: My Ummah will split up into seventy-three sects, all of them will be in the Fire except one sect? Guide us to the right answer! My Allah reward you !

A: Every denomination or newly invented sect created by people and contradicts Shari`ah (Islamic law) falls under this Hadith of Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him): Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected. and also under this Sahih Hadith (a Hadith that has been transmitted by people known for their uprightness and exactitude; free from eccentricity and blemish): "My Ummah will split up into seventy-three sects, all of them will be in the Fire except one sect." They asked: "Which one, O Messenger of Allah? He replied: "Al-Jama`ah (the true followers of the Prophet)."

In another narration, the Prophet's reply was: It is the one (sect) that follows what I and my Companions are upon now. Hence, whatever practice, deed, or act of worship people invent as a means of drawing nearer to Allah thinking that they will be rewarded while in fact it contradicts Shari`ah, it is considered a Bid`ah (rejected innovation in religion) that falls under this dispraise and censure stated by Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him).

Accordingly, it is the duty of all Muslims to weigh their words, deeds and acts of worship against the statements of Allah and His Messenger, what has been ordained by Allah, what is authentically reported from Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him), what is in accordance with Shari`ah and what is stated in Allah's Book (the Qur'an). This leads to the acceptable truth! On the other hand, whatever act or manner of worship that conflicts with the Book of Allah or the Sunnah (whatever is reported from the Prophet), it is rejected and it falls under this Hadith of the Messenger (peace be upon him): Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected. .

All of this discussion refers to the acts of worship innovated by people as means of drawing nearer to Allah. However, new designs and modern inventions, such as weapons, vehicles, clothing, food, etc, are not what this Hadith refers to. The Hadith has to do with the acts of worship that people perform seeking to draw nearer to Allah. This is what is meant by the Prophet's (peace be upon him) statement: Whoever does something that is not in accordance with our command, their deed is to be rejected. and: Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected.

This Hadith also involves such contracts that contradict the Shari`ah, for any contract that runs counter to the Shari`ah is considered null and void.

- Shaykh Ibn Baaz rahimahullah
 
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Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
Q- There are many religious sects and groups, each claiming that they are the victorious one. This matter is perplexing to many people, so what should we do, especially as there are groups that are related to Islam, such as Al-Sufiyah, Al-Salafiyah, and others, and how can we distinguish between them? May Allah bless you.

A: It is confirmed that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "The Jews split into seventy-one sects; one will be in Paradise (i.e., those who followed Moses) and seventy will be in the Fire. The Christians split into seventy-two sects; seventy-one will be in the Fire and one will be in Paradise (i.e., those who followed Jesus). And by the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, this Ummah (nation) of mine will split into seventy-three sects; one will be in Paradise and seventy-two will be in the Fire. It was asked, "Who are they, O Messenger of Allah?" He (peace be upon him) said, "Al-Jamaýah (i.e., the group which adheres steadfastly to the way of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and his Companions)." And in another narration: "(Those who follow) what I and my Companions are following."

This is the saved group; those who adhere steadfastly to the truth that the Messenger (peace be upon him) came with, and adopt the way of the Messenger (peace be upon him) and that of his Companions. They are Ahl Al-Sunnah wal-Jamaýah (those adhering to the Sunnah and the Muslim community). They are the people who adhere to the Hadith; the righteous predecessors who follow in the footsteps of the early generations in acting upon the Qurýan and the Sunnah. Any sect that contradicts them is threatened with the Fire.

Dear questioner, you have to study every group that claims to be the victorious one. Scrutinize their deeds; if they are in conformity with the Shariýah, they are included in the victorious group; otherwise they are not.

The measure here is the Qurýan and the Sunnah, so any group whose words and deeds are in accordance with the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Messenger (peace be upon him) is within the victorious one and any that contradict this, such as: the Jahmiyyah (an Islamic sect denying some of the Attributes of Allah, claiming they are ascribed to people and cannot be ascribed to Allah), the Muýtazilah (a deviant Islamic sect claiming that those who commit major sins are in a state between belief and disbelief), the Rafidah (a Shi`ah group denying the caliphates of Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq and ýUmar bin Al-Khattab, and making accusations against them and many other Companions), the Murjiýah (a deviant Islamic sect claiming that Faith is restricted to belief not deeds), and others, as well as most of the Sufis who invent matters in the religion, which Allah does not permit. They are all among the groups that the Messenger (peace be upon him) forewarned of the Fire, until they repent from going against Shariýah.

Any group that adopts anything contrary to Shariýah have to repent from it, and return to the right path and the truth that our Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him), brought. In this way they will be saved from the threat. But if they insist on the rejected innovations they have introduced in religion and do not follow the way of the Messenger (peace be upon him), they will be among the threatened groups. Not all of these groups are disbelievers, but they are threatened with the Fire. Among them are those who are disbelievers for committing acts of disbelief, and among them are those who are not disbelievers, but they are still threatened with the Fire, because they have introduced heresies in religion and sanctioned what Allah has not permitted (may He be Glorified and Exalted).

Shaykh Ibn Baaz rahimahullah in one of his Nur `Ala Al-Darb Fatwas
 

Abu Loren

Defender of Islam!
I also just want to add that if we don't recognise these groups and label them as such then there will be confusion as everybody will think that their heretic and deviant views are shared by ALL true Muslims.
 

facethetruth

Junior Member
Assalamu alaykum

Salam Alikom Brother Ameer,

First I want to start with that Shaikh Ibn Baz is a great scholar but he makes mistakes. Yes pls take it with a warm chest, all scholars make mistakes so when we have an opinion that not supported fully with the Quran and Hadeeth it could be right or wrong. We are not Shia where we say Al Khumainin said, which is enough. One of the most famous fatwas for Ibn Baz Allah have mercy on him that most of the scholars disagreed with him is marrying with the intention of divorce, so yes he makes mistakes.

The second part is, I researched the topic 100% I traveled to different places and sat with all sects. I have friends from all sects.

The prophet prayers and peace be upon him said what on myself and the companions which they never called them selves anything. All the sects that asstrayed had names except the Sahaba sobhana Allah examples, Khawarij, Sofeieh, Motazila, Jahmiyah and so one which are very similar to some of the sects today including what they call themselves salafies but in different names.

Ibn Taymyat never called himself a salafi, niether any body from all the SALAF. Again simple the saved group is upon the sunnah of our prophet prayers and peace be upon him and his sunnah to call ourselves Muslims. Add to that all the HUGE problems with every sect NO exceptions.

Lets be honest, Ibn Baz is salafi and his students as well, you know and I know that many of his students and collegues like Fawzan desieve people especially in Jihad. On the other hand we see the other extreme where they call themselves a Salafi too but are close to Khawarij. The salaf and the companions never left Jihad nor they became like Khawarij where people are Kafirs they were in the middle. Brother this is the absoulte truth and just think about it and take your time. Dont get me wrong I listen to Saudi Scholars I just finished the explanation of Alqawaid al Fiqhya for Alsadi by Almislih which is one of the best three students of IBn Othaimeain but that does not mean that I will be a blind follower and just follow in everything like Christains, Shia and other sects who tell me my Shaikh said.

Abu Loren,
Yes we should recognize these groups but we should not be ourselves in any of these.
 
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faaraa

Nothing but Muslimah
When I started leaning Islam, I was so confused as I could never end up with deciding to which group I should join myself.
As time passed I learned that the only way I should follow is the way of Prophet (PBUH) (Qur'an & Sunnah).
I was damn irritated whenever people asked me to which sect I belong +and when some people assumed my self of being into some sect !!
The below Qur'anic verse taught me to follow Allah and His messenger and proudly say that I am of Muslism !!
"Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says "I am of those who bow in Islam"?" (41:33)

And I remember that I made this video to reply the people who ask me , "to which sect do you belong?" :p (I was irritated sooo much :D )
 

facethetruth

Junior Member
OK I think a lot of people are not aware of this verse in Surat Al haj" And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline): He has chosen you and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector― the― Best to protect and the Best to help! (78)
 

facethetruth

Junior Member
With all respect to Shaikh Albani may Allah have mercy on him, again this is his opinion. He has MANY opinions that people dont follow for example he said it is haram to wear gold rings for women, Niqab is not Fard ...etc.

Our opinion is clearly supported from the Quran haj 78. Now the guy who debated the Shaikh was not strong. If he would ask me what is my Mathhab I would answer I have no Mathhab I follow the Quran and The sunnah. The other thing Shaikh Al Islam was not just called Salafi he had many Charechatristics that he was called with for example as Ibn Zamlikani described him he is "Alzahid, Alabid (Worshiper), Mohey Alsonnah (Who made Sunnah alive....etc we can make a group and call it Alzohad, or Alobad (plular of Abid in Arabic) ....etc there are just for Ibn taymya tens of charechtaristics and Salafi is one of them. One of our charechtaristics is Salafi but my title is Muslim. Here is the orginal description in Arabic for Shaikh Alislam. Many of these are charectaristics that equal to Salafi though we dont make a group and pick one of these good characteristics and make it as our Name. Our name is MUSLIM which means to submit to Allah sobhanah wa talah.

ذكره الحافظ كمال الدين بن الزملكاني فقال: "الشيخ الإمام العالم العلامة الأوحد الحافظ المجتهد الزاهد العابد القدوة، إمام الأئمة، قدوة الأمة، علامة العلماء، وارث الأنبياء، آخر المجتهدين، أوحد علماء الدين، بركة الإسلام، حجة الأعلام، برهان المتكلمين، قامع المبتدعين، محيي السنة، ومن عظمت به لله علينا المنة، وقامت به على أعدائه الحجة،... انبهر أهل دمشق من فرط ذكائه، وسيلان ذهنه، ودقة حافظته، وسرعة إدراكه".
 

Umm Abdullah

Junior Member
I am sorry but I disagree with you. We are not all Muslims, those deviant sects should not be called Muslims. The Shi'a for example elevate Ali (RA) to the position that only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala deserves. And we all know about the Sufi's and grave worship, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) specifically warned about grave worship and they do it nonetheless as if the Prophet's words do not matter.

Also to a non Muslim all these sects are MUSLIMS but they must be made aware of the differences. Most do not know the difference between Sunni's and Shi'as etc.

You clearly misunderstood me. I'm not talking about those who are outside the fold of Islam. What I mean is, we shouldn't say " I'm salafi" or "I'm sufi" etc. Allah called us Muslims and that should be enough for us.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
..... One of our charechtaristics is Salafi but my title is Muslim..

It is odd you mention this as your own belief because this is what we have been saying, it is also what the scholars say too. I am a Muslim, my characteristic (or manhaj) is "Salafi", meaning I follow the Quran and Sunnah. And we should not be divided, rather we should unite upon the Islam, as Allah mentioned in ayah 78 of Surah al Haj.
 

facethetruth

Junior Member
No brother who call themselves salafi it is related to a specific group, forexample you dont see them calling themselves Zahideen, Warieen, ...etc samething with the Salafi Jihadi. My charechtaristic is Jihadi but when somebody call themselves Jihadi they refer to a specific group with some fiqh issue. Forexample do you know that the Jomhour of the Salaf said that ISBAL is not Haram if it is not for arrogance? I never met a person who calls himself a Salafi who follow the Jomhour and some of the Jomhour if you wish is Shaikh Alislam, Shafies, Nawawi, Alshawkani actually I wrote something before about it and I will just copy it and paste it in a new thread.
 
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