A Hajj Related Question

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

I have a question for anyone who's familiar with the rites of Hajj.

I was reading an ebook and came across the following paragraph. The part I have a doubt about has been bolded:

http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=26&chapter=1

Each day you are to stone each of the three pillars, using seven pebbles for each pillar, as you did previously with the Jamrat-ul-‘Aqabah. You must first start with the stoning of the “small pillar”, then the “middle pillar” and lastly, the “big pillar.”

You perform these stonings on all three days at Minaa; the 11th, 12th, and 13th of Dhul-Hijjah. These days are known as Ayaam at-Tashreeq (The Days of Drying).

When these days are over, the rites of Hajj are now completed, and you may return home to your family. Some people wish to leave early and travel home from the Hajj (a day early). In this regard, Allaah has said:
“Remember Allaah during the appointed days (i.e. Ayaam at-Tashreeq) and
whoever hastens to leave in two days, there is no sin on him. And whoever
remains (until the 13th of Dhul-Hijjah), there is no sin on him, providing that his intention was to be dutiful to Allaah (and to do good).” [Surah Al-Baqarah: 203]

So it is permissible to leave on the 12th of Dhul-Hijjah, after the second day at Minaa, by combining the stoning of the pillars of the second and third days into one day (i.e. the stoning of the 12th and 13th of Dhul-Hijjah are to be both performed on the same day, the 12th of Dhul-Hijjah, the second day at Minaa).

This is accomplished by going out on the second day of stoning (the 12th of Dhul Hijjah) and throwing seven pebbles at the small pillar for the second day then throwing seven additional pebbles at the same (small) pillar for the third day. You repeat this same process for the following two pillars – the middle and the last Jamraat. Throw seven pebbles first for the second day, then seven more pebbles for the third and final day (in one day).


Hence, it is permissible for the people to remain at Minaa for three days, or for those who wish to hurry, two days. Those leaving on the second day, however, must combine the second and third days of the Stoning of Jamrat on one day, which is the second day. Then, they can travel back to their homelands.

I've read numerous books and watched video lectures, but no where did anyone mention anything about combining the stoning by first stoning for the 12th and then for the 13th all on the same day. Throwing double the amount of pebbles. Is this even correct?
 

Munawar

Striving for Paradise
:salam2:
I went for Hajj in 2009 and when I was there different learned people told me the same thing that it is permissible to leave Mina on the 12 day of Dhul-Hijjah.
In that case they are probably allowed to do the stoning for the 13th day with the 12th day.

But if you are going from outside in a Hajj package or with a group then they all stay in Mina until 13th day, and even if the leave Mina on 12th day for Makkah, then they come back to do the Jamaraat on the 13th.

I am not an expert on this matter, but this is what know.

Are you going on Hajj this year?
:wasalam:
 

islamirama

www.netmuslims.com
I have never heard of or read that any where. Even the sheikhs that were there didn't say anything of the sort, rather what they did say was that you could stone before Noon and leave early but then islamqa.com says that you can't and have to wait till noon before you stone or it won't count. I wouldn't go doing double stoning unless you can confirm that with a reputable scholar. And you should read a book by reliable scholars. Like, i have "hajj, Umrah & Ziyarah" by bin baz scanned if you want it.
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

I know that most of the books and scholars say that it's permissable to leave on the 12th - if and only if you leave Mina before sunset, otherwise you still have to do the stoning for the 13th (without leaving Mina, of course. There is no basis in leaving Mina and then coming back to do the stoning). Ideal stoning time is from after Dhuhr begins until sunset (though if a person has difficulty getting to the place by sunset, it is still permissable to stone throughout the night). And yes, I'm aware that its not a good practice to go and do the stoning before zawal time *unless* there's some validity for it such as being elderly, weak, sick, women, children, etc. Of course staying all three days of Ayaam-at-Tashreeq is the best, but the package I'm going with will bring us back before sunset of the 12th, hence my confusion with the double-stoning topic quoted in the original post.

But this double stoning thing is crazy-sounding. I searched Islamqa too but didn't find any mention of it.

For now, until I see more daleel for this I will discard this as a deviation from the proper rites.
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

I have another question if someone here could answer it. During the days of Hajj, we're to shorten our prayers (Qasr). Is this regardless of how long the stay in Mecca is? For example, if I stay there for 25 days, do I pray the full prayers during the days of Hajj, or is the Qasr salah one of the rulings of Hajj??
 

Abu Ameerah

Junior Member
Peace Be Upon All of You, Brothers and Sisters

Combining the stoning on the 12th and 13th is not supported by the practice of the Prophet (Peace be Upon Him) and his Companions. Here is the verse from the Qur'an: "And Remember Allah during (specific) numbered days. Then whoever hastens (his departure) in two days - there is no sin upon him; and whoever delays (until the THIRD OR 13TH) - there is no sin upon him - for him who fears Allah . And Fear Allah and know that unto Him you will be returned ( 2:203).

As mentioned by the brothers/sisters, you should leave Mina before sunset if you don't want to stone on the 13th. It is recommended to stay and complete the days of Tashreek until 13th.

Allah knows best. We pray for the acceptance of our Hajj this year.
 

islamirama

www.netmuslims.com
:salam2:

I have another question if someone here could answer it. During the days of Hajj, we're to shorten our prayers (Qasr). Is this regardless of how long the stay in Mecca is? For example, if I stay there for 25 days, do I pray the full prayers during the days of Hajj, or is the Qasr salah one of the rulings of Hajj??

:wasalam:

In Mina you pray all 4 prayers at their proper times but shortening the 4 rakah prayers to 2 rakah prayers. In arafat, you combine and shortening dhuhr and asr prayers, same with magreb and isha in muzadallifah.

Are you planning to go to hajj this year? what books are you reading to prepare yourself?
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:wasalam:

In Mina you pray all 4 prayers at their proper times but shortening the 4 rakah prayers to 2 rakah prayers. In arafat, you combine and shortening dhuhr and asr prayers, same with magreb and isha in muzadallifah.

Are you planning to go to hajj this year? what books are you reading to prepare yourself?

:salam2:

But does it matter whether a person has a short or long stay in Makkah in order to shorten the Hajj prayers? I have innumerable people telling me to *not* shorten my prayers at Mina since I'll be staying in Makkah for 25 days.

Yes, Inshallah, I'm planning for Hajj this year. I've read all the Hajj related books found on islamicbulletin, watched the 11 episode video lecture series by Sheikh Muhammad Salah (this series is awesome), and read almost all the QA on IslamicQA.
 

islamirama

www.netmuslims.com
:salam2:

But does it matter whether a person has a short or long stay in Makkah in order to shorten the Hajj prayers? I have innumerable people telling me to *not* shorten my prayers at Mina since I'll be staying in Makkah for 25 days.

Yes, Inshallah, I'm planning for Hajj this year. I've read all the Hajj related books found on islamicbulletin, watched the 11 episode video lecture series by Sheikh Muhammad Salah (this series is awesome), and read almost all the QA on IslamicQA.

:wasalam:

Are you going to listen to these people or to the scholars? From what it states in the hajj book they gave us at the airport, you shorten and combine prayers as I described previously, that is the sunnah of the Hajj. If you want to look at it from traveling perspective, then you will be staying in Makkah and that is where you will offer your full prayers but when you start your hajj then you are traveling between those places and thus you do qasr prayers as mentioned.

You should check out this link below, it has news updates of what's been going there. Such as train service, even they offer you a bag with pebbles already so you don't have to pick them. That's what the news says, not sure if it is implemented. Maybe the person here who went in 2009 can confirm.

Hajj News updates
 

amer05

New Member
Be aware of Pickpocket

My brother went to Hajj this year and he lost all his money so just a reminder to all brothers and sisters who are going.
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

Alhamdulillah! I found what I was looking for. I've been searching for something like this for ages. Finally:

Source: http://ahadith.co.uk/chapter.php?page=22&cid=53

Hadith no: 211
Narrated / Authority Of:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Umar ibn al-Khattab prayed two rakas with everybody when he arrived in Makka. Then, when he had finished, he said, "People of Makka, complete your prayer, because we are a group of travellers." Later, Umar ibn al-Khattab prayed two rakas with them at Mina, but we have not heard that he said anything to them on that occasion.


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Hadith no: 212
Narrated / Authority Of:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from his father that Umar ibn al-Khattab prayed two rakas with the people of Makka, and then, when he had finished, he said, "People of Makka, complete your prayer, becausewe are a group of travellers." Later, Umar prayed two rakas with them at Mina, but we have not heard that he said anything to them on that occasion. Malik was asked whether the people of Makka should pray two rakas at Arafa or four, and whether the amir of the hajj, if he was a Makkan, should pray dhuhr and asr with four rakas or two, and also how the people of Makka who were living (at Mina) should pray, and he said, "The people of Makka should pray only two rakas at Arafa and Mina for as long as they stay there, and should shorten the prayer until they return to Makka. The amir of the hajj, if he is a Makkan, should also shorten the prayer at Arafa and during the days of Mina. Anyone who is living at Mina as a resident should do the full prayer at Mina, and similarly anyone who lives at Arafa and is a resident there should do the full prayer at Arafa."


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Hadith no: 213
Narrated / Authority Of:
Yahya related to me that Malik said, "Someone who comes to Makka at or before the new moon of Dhu'l-Hij ja and goes into ihram for the hajj should do the full prayer until he leaves Makka for Mina, and then he should shorten the prayer. This is because he has decided to stay there for more than four nights."

I wonder why then, sometimes the congregational prayers are prayed as 4 rakah in Mina, like I've heard people who went to Hajj last year said.
 

islamirama

www.netmuslims.com
:salam2:

Alhamdulillah! I found what I was looking for. I've been searching for something like this for ages. Finally:

Source: http://ahadith.co.uk/chapter.php?page=22&cid=53



I wonder why then, sometimes the congregational prayers are prayed as 4 rakah in Mina, like I've heard people who went to Hajj last year said.

:wasalam:


Either they are ignorant of it and/or they want more ajr so they think they'll get more ajr doing full prayers. As i said before, if you want a sound hajj then trust good hajj books by good scholars and not listen to the people.
 
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