Arn't sunnis transgressing?

a_stranger

Junior Member
You cannot remain without bringing the religious issues with shia into the discussion, as if they had anything to do with their killings. Suppose for an instance, they are kuffaar. Does that give you the right to kill them. This is what we are discussing here sister. I don't care if you consider them kuffaar or not. But I will always bear wittness, that Islam is not teaching you to kill them.

You are counting the killings of syrian national army as killings of the shia, which is not true. There are enough sunnis in their national army. This war is not about shia against sunnis. This war is about syrian national army against west/israel/saudia-supported sunni rebels. Since those sunni rebels are non-state actors, they are mufsid by definition. For doing fasaad fil ard, they deserve to be killed. period.
The start of the Syrian conflict is simply people seeking dignity , freedom, and peaceful life . They suffered for decades dictatorship , prisons, torture , and insults from their government . When they asked for their dignity they were faced with more prisons , torture , and killing . Iran which we thought that will defend the poor people ( as a muslem should do )came to help the injustice and crimes of the regime . I am truly astonished how can any human support such injustice and crime. Islam is against killing , injustice , crimes any creature how about your brothers and sisters. One day we will return to Allah and will be asked . Astagfur Allah
 

saif

Junior Member
The start of the Syrian conflict is simply people seeking dignity , freedom, and peaceful life . They suffered for decades dictatorship , prisons, torture , and insults from their government . When they asked for their dignity they were faced with more prisons , torture , and killing . Iran which we thought that will defend the poor people ( as a muslem should do )came to help the injustice and crimes of the regime . I am truly astonished how can any human support such injustice and crime. Islam is against killing , injustice , crimes any creature how about your brothers and sisters. One day we will return to Allah and will be asked . Astagfur Allah

There is no doubt, that Syrian government is dhalim. There is no doubt, that muslims should help people under persecution, if they have the power and means for that. Following verses show, that it is a duty of the muslims.

4:75
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SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?"
4:76
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SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah , and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of Taghut. So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak.

However, it is beyond doubt, that the verses are not addressing muslims as individuals but muslims as a jama'ah. In our times, a sizable state, where muslims are living under a government, is the correct interpretation of jama'ah. Every other grouping or hizb invloved in a war is nothing else but fasaad. Muslims should separate themselves from any such fasaad. This is in direct interpretation of the following hadith, where the Prophet(saw) replied on a question of Hudaifah(ra):

upload_2016-4-25_22-40-43.png

(Bukhari, Raqam 7084)

Moreover, the state or the coallition of states have to ensure, that they have the power to finish the task successfully. If they do not have that power, then they should do sabr and ask the persecuted people to do sabr too. This is because if they are weak and start a war, it will result in greater damage. According to Quran, if muslims want to start a war against an oppressor, they should have at least half of his strength. Following verse addresses this issue:

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Conclusion:

  1. 1. Muslims have neglected the shariah and supported individuals and non-state groupings to indulge in a war against a state. The Prophet is asking us to separate ourselves from all groupings, even if we have to eat the roots of trees and die in segregation.
  2. Muslims have not weighed their strength to determine, whether they can finish it off with success. Note, that the involvement of Russia and Iran were calculateable.
  3. Even in war we are not allowed to do injustice. Are we doing justice? The whole world does not know, whether to laugh or to cry on the present state of affairs of the muslims. We are ignoring our own Shari'ah, so we actually deserve to be in this mess. Ya Allah, show us the right path. Ameen.
 
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a_stranger

Junior Member
(((. In our times, a sizable state, where muslims are living under a government, is the correct interpretation of jama'ah. )))

In Islam jamaah means those who hold Quran and Sunna . The government of Syria is holding Baath.

The Ba’ath Party began in Syria in April 1947, formed by the merging of Michel Aflaq and Salah al-Din al-Bitar’s Arab Ba’ath Movement and Zaki al-Arsuzi’s Arab Ba’ath. The formed Party’s objectives were secularism, socialism, and pan-Arab unification, nothing about Quran and Sunna .Michel Aflaq wasn't Muslem .

Please brother think about what are you saying .
 

zaman-gm

Junior Member
Salam,
If you ask some basic question to a Shia and he/she give answer as like a Muslim without any shirk, then no one can blame them. But we should aware about politics, self-interested people and Hypocrites.

We have enough experience about violence and heart tearing pain year after year. Let's try to give dawa and pray to Allah as he accept all of us for Islam and saved us for the conspiracy of Iblis.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Islam was revealed to wipe injustice, cruelty, inhumanity, ........etc. from earth by clearing hearts from arrogance, hate, envy, selfishness , ........all kinds of bad feelings and place love of Allah and his glory , mercy, humility , goodwill within human heart. Islam came to rescue the poor and oppressed and remove their sufferings . Islam is a mercy to humanity.
We can't twist teachings of Islam to support the oppressors . Any one who does not understand the message of love and mercy in Islam is mistaken and missed the essence of Islam .
With respect for all.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
A muslem should feel love towards all other creatures since all was created by Allah and love for them what he/she love for his/herself .

لا يَبْلُغُ عَبْدٌ حَقِيقَةَ الإِيمَانِ حَتَّى يُحِبَّ لِلنَّاسِ مَا يُحِبُّ لِنَفْسِهِ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ

The servant does not reach the reality of faith until he loves for the people what he loves for himself of goodness.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Ibn Ḥibbān 238, Grade: Sahih

Then as he felt the sweetness of faith and love of Allah subhanahu wa taaala he should try to make this love and sweetness flow outside around him , and let the humanity enjoy this peace and happiness by studying the teachings of Quran and Sunna following the example of our prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam.
 

saif

Junior Member
(((. In our times, a sizable state, where muslims are living under a government, is the correct interpretation of jama'ah. )))

In Islam jamaah means those who hold Quran and Sunna .
Where did you get that from? Jama'ah in Quran is equivalent to state, amr is equivalent to government and ameer and imaam are equivalent to ruler/head of state. The words in quran are fully neutral and without any connotation of being good or bad. So I have no problem in accepting that Imaam of Syria is dhaalim (an oppressor). The word in arabic for modern day political groupings like jamaa'ah Islamiah is in fact "hizb". Let me know, if you still need me to get you numerous examples from Ahadith, where the Prophet has used those words for non muslims and kuffaar. So think, what you are saying sister.

You are getting me wrong. I am in no way trying to establish the sanctity of the syrian governement over stateless jihadis. I am only trying to establish the mischief of stateless jihaad (read fasaad or anarchy). That objection of mine would have been gone, if the war would have been imposed by Saudi Arabia itself or by a coallition of muslim states.
 
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saif

Junior Member
Islam was revealed to wipe injustice, cruelty, inhumanity, ........etc. from earth by clearing hearts from arrogance, hate, envy, selfishness , ........all kinds of bad feelings and place love of Allah and his glory , mercy, humility , goodwill within human heart. Islam came to rescue the poor and oppressed and remove their sufferings . Islam is a mercy to humanity.
We can't twist teachings of Islam to support the oppressors . Any one who does not understand the message of love and mercy in Islam is mistaken and missed the essence of Islam .
With respect for all.

People are twisting the teachings of Islam to vent their hate. If in the back of your mind you mean me, then I openly call the oppressors the oppressors. We cannot start changing Islam, only because we want to get rid of this oppressor by using whatever means. There is a clear guidance in Islam, how to deal with those oppressors.

By the way, you can blame syrian government for everything but not for misusing Islam for killing people. This is, what the other side is doing.
 
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sister herb

Official TTI Chef
People are twisting the teachings of Islam to vent their hate. If in the back of your mind you mean me, then I openly call the oppressors the oppressors. We cannot start changing Islam, only because we want to get rid of this oppressor by using whatever means. There is a clear guidance in Islam, how to deal with those oppressors.

By the way, you can blame syrian government for everything but not for misusing Islam for killing people. This is, what the other side is doing.

Syrian government too kills people. Maybe not because of Islam but because they want to keep their power and continue oppressing their own people. Killing is killing, just same what are the reasons. And killing innocent civilians is always the sin.

As well crime against humanity.

In Syria is now four fronts: goverment who kills people, daesh who kills people and rebels whose kill people. Plus foreign troops whose as well kill people.

Who could end this madness and killing?
 

saif

Junior Member
Syrian government too kills people. Maybe not because of Islam but because they want to keep their power and continue oppressing their own people. Killing is killing, just same what are the reasons. And killing innocent civilians is always the sin.

As well crime against humanity.

In Syria is now four fronts: goverment who kills people, daesh who kills people and rebels whose kill people. Plus foreign troops whose as well kill people.

Who could end this madness and killing?

Sister Herb,
Assalamu alaikum

You are the most appropriate person to connect the dots. I can see, that the plan is to get the land free of its inhabitants by whatever means. For whom? Who knows that better than you. Following hints will help you get the complete picture

First let us understand israel's politics towards palestinian refugees. That will provide us some hints:
  1. Israel would like to get rid of all palestinians living as refugees in West-Bank or Gaza.
  2. Israel would like all states in its influence to provide asylum to Palestinians from West-Bank and Gaza, because every palestinian who starts living in west is one less in the land of their interest.
Now towards the situation in Syria:
  1. Like you said, everybody is killing everbody else. People are forced to leave the land of their ancestors to save their lives. The land is getting empty by itself.
  2. Israel is supporting rebels.
  3. The whole west is supporting rebels
  4. Of all the countries, Germany, which has some historical responsibilities towards israel, is saying welcome to syrian refugees. Even though, they have a conservative government, which was never friendly towards muslims.

Can you connect the dots now?

Wassalamu alaikum
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
I know about some plans to create the great Israel, from the Nile to the Euphrat and Tigris. For the long-term plan civil war and the Syrian nation's internal moral decay suits well to kind of idea.

Or then it´s only one of those conspiracy theories.

In Syria, the government has its supporters as well rebels have their owns. Who would support ordinary citizens, just same are they Sunnia, Shias or something else, in this situation and protect their security and lives?
 

Pure-heart

Junior Member
Why Syrian people repel?


Since then, the images that Caesar secreted out of Syria have received wide circulation, having been touted by Western officials and others as clear evidence of war crimes. The pictures, most of them taken in Syrian military hospitals, show corpses photographed at close range—one at a time as well as in small groupings. Virtually all of the bodies—thousands of them—betray signs of torture: gouged eyes; mangled genitals; bruises and dried blood from beatings; acid and electric burns; emaciation; and marks from strangulation. Caesar took a number of these pictures, working with roughly a dozen other photographers assigned to the same military-police unit.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/06/assad-war-crimes-syria-torture-caesar-hospital
 

Pure-heart

Junior Member
“They [regime forces] would bring a bus to our village and fill it with men and then go,” she says. “They threw them in the bus like animals or goods, so I don’t know how many people. They arrested them and made them praise Assad like a god. And then they slaughtered them.”

Her husband and son were arrested by the Mukhabarat (the notorious Syrian security services). They were jailed in a subterranean torture complex which, according to her husband, went several floors underground. Amina says they subjected her husband and son to degrading treatment: “When my husband washed for prayer they would just push him in the dirt. They stripped them. They came out tortured and unclean. They looked dead when they came out of prison.”

This account fits with the underground prisons described by Human Rights Watch in its Torture Archipelago report. Accounts of detainees being forced by the Mukhabarat to worship Assad as a god are documented, as are other humiliating acts, such as disrupting prayer. These psychological forms of torture have been reported to be used in combination with physical, more extreme forms of torture.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/09/30/the-free-women-of-syria-camp-in-jordan-with-stories-of-horror/
 

Pure-heart

Junior Member
The commission’s work recently culminated in a four-hundred-page legal brief that links the systematic torture and murder of tens of thousands of Syrians to a written policy approved by President Bashar al-Assad, coördinated among his security-intelligence agencies, and implemented by regime operatives, who reported the successes of their campaign to their superiors in Damascus. The brief narrates daily events in Syria through the eyes of Assad and his associates and their victims, and offers a record of state-sponsored torture that is almost unimaginable in its scope and its cruelty. Such acts had been reported by survivors in Syria before, but they had never been traced back to signed orders. Stephen Rapp, who led prosecution teams at the international criminal tribunals in Rwanda and Sierra Leone before serving for six years as the United States Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes Issues, told me that the CIJA’s documentation “is much richer than anything I’ve seen, and anything I’ve prosecuted in this area.”

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/04/18/bashar-al-assads-war-crimes-exposed
 

Pure-heart

Junior Member
I am sorry for hurting your feelings but the crimes should be stopped: please don't look if you have a weak heart:

 
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