As-Salamu Alaykum some christians say the Trinity is 1 God ?

truthseeker63

Junior Member
As-Salamu Alaykum some christians say the Trinity is 1 God in 3 because a person like me i can be a father a son and a brother so christiabs say these roles 1 person can have proves their trinity can be 1 God does this claim make sense ?

Is Trinity logical?
First Argument:
A person can also be a father, a brother and a businessman at the same time, but yet, he is one and the same person. Then why

cannot God be "one in three" i.e. God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?

The same person can be a father, a brother and a businessman at the same time.


Many Christians believe in Trinity that 'God is three in one.' Lets analyse if the logic they use to prove 'Trinity' is really logical and if 'Trinity' has any Biblical base or NOT.
Is Trinity logical?
First Argument:
A person can also be a father, a brother and a businessman at the same time, but yet, he is one and the same person. Then why

cannot God be "one in three" i.e. God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?

The same person can be a father, a brother and a businessman at the same time.
a. But suppose the sister of that man tells him a secret, it is but natural that the father and the businessman also will know about it. Contrary to this, Jesus (pbuh) has said in the Bible, in the Gospel of Mark, chapter 13 verse 32
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Here the knowledge of the hour is only known to the Father and not to the Son, indicating that God and Jesus (pbuh) Christ are not one and the same person.

b. A human being can be a father, a brother, and a businessman at the same time, but if the brother dies, even the father and the businessman will die. Thus, when the Christians say that Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross they will have to agree that God and the Holy Spirit also died.

Second Argument:
The concept of "Trinity" can be explained by giving the example that water can be present in three states, i.e. as solid e.g.

ice, as liquid e.g. water and gas e.g. vapour, yet it is one and the same water.

I agree that water can be present in three states, that is solid, liquid and gas, as ice, water and vapour but in all three states the matter is the same i.e. H2O and contains two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen. The material and components are the same although the form of the matter differs. Water remains H2O in the solid form i.e. ice. It remains H2O in the form of gas i.e. vapour. However, in case of Trinity, besides the form changing even the components and material themselves change. The Father is God and Jesus (pbuh) is man, and the Holy Ghost is a spirit and all three are not made up of the same matter or component.
Man contains flesh and bones, whereas God and spirit do not contain flesh and bones. Man requires to eat, etc., whereas God does not require to eat. No wonder Jesus (pbuh) says in the last supper, in the upper room mentioned in the Gospel of Luke, chapter 24 verses 39 to 43
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet.
And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb."
And he took it, and did eat before them.

The word ‘Trinity’ is not mentioned in the Bible, but in the Qur’an
The word "Trinity" does not exist anywhere in the whole Bible, but it is mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an in the following places:
a. In Surah Nisa chapter 4 verse 171
"Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: It will be better for you for Allah is one God." [Al-Qur’an 4:171]
b. A similar message is repeated in Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 73
"They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three In a Trinity: for there is No god except One God. If they desist not From their word (of blasphemy), Verily a grievous penalty Will befall the blasphemers Among them." [Al-Qur’an 16:125]

The closest verse regarding "Trinity" in the Bible, has now been thrown out of the Bible
The verse in the Bible which is closest to "Trinity" and is often quoted by Christian missionaries is the
first Epistle of John, chapter 5 verse no 7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one."
In the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (R.S.V.) revised by 32 Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 different co-operating denominations, this verse which is the keystone of the Christian faith has been removed as an interpolation, as a fabrication and as a concoction. It has not been expunged from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible by the Muslims or by non-Christian scholars, but by 32 Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 different cooperating denominations as an interpolation, as a concoction and as a fabrication because this verse does not exist in the original manuscript.

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
There is NOT a single statement in the complete Bible where Jesus Christ himself says,"I am God" or "Worship me." Some Biblical are misquoted to give the impression that Jesus Christ claimed divinity. Such verses have been refuted in the post Did Jesus Christ Claim Divinity? Concept of God is discussed in detail in the post Concept Of God In Christianity.
Jesus (pbuh) never spoke about Trinity i.e. three in one. On the contrary he says in:
a. The Gospel of Mark ,chapter 12, verse 29 "Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonia Ikhad" It is a Hebrew quotation which means: "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."

b. The Gospel of John, chapter 14 verse 28 "My father is greater than I."

c. The Gospel of John, chapter 10 verse 29 "My Father... is greater than all."

d. The Gospel of Mathew, chapter 12, verse 28 "… I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."

e. The Gospel of Luke, chapter 11 verse 20 "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."

f. The Gospel of John, chapter 5 verse 30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

The Catechism of the Church
a. According to the Catechism of the Christian Church, "The Father is a person, the Son is a person, and the Holy Ghost is a person; but they are not three persons but one person."
Person, person, person but not 3 persons but 1 person! What language is this?
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and not 1. 1 x 3 = 3 and not 1.
What makes a person different than the other person? It is his personality.

b. If we have three identical triplets and one of them commits murder, should we hang the other two? The answer is ‘No’, because he is a different person having a different personality.

c. When the Christians speak about the Father in Heaven they have a certain mental picture in mind, of an elderly man some what like Santa Claus sitting on one of the planets with the earth as his foot stool. When they speak about the son, they have a certain mental picture in their mind. A tall handsome man, who has a beard and long hair; somewhat like Jeffery Hunter who did the role of Jesus (pbuh) in the film ‘King of Kings’. When they speak about the Holy Ghost they have a certain mental picture in mind like that of a dove that came upon Jesus (pbuh) when he was baptised or like a spirit at the feast of Pentecost. If we ask the Christians "How many mental pictures do you have when you speak about Trinity?" they say "We have only one picture". They lie when they say this, for 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and not 1.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
Wa alaykum salam,

An incorrect analogy.

- When a man is doing business, or taking care of his son, or with his brother, he is still the same man, with the same name. There is no distinction.

Christians divide up God, attributing him to three distinct parts, and also crucially divide their worship of Him. So, the Christian who believes the above analogy and denies they are distinct parts, does not know his or her own belief! Furthermore, it seems they do not understand the error of saying that God is three in one. "To worship Jesus is fine, because he is God".

Quran 5:116 - And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

Quran: 4:171 - O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Walikum asalamu warahmatullahi wabarakahu, I recently reverted to Islam from the Catholic Christian background and the Trinity among many other parts of the Gospels didn't make sense to me until I read and began studying the Qur'an. It didn't make sense as a Christian because it contradicted the 10 commandments. Jesus alayhi wasallam told in many parts of the Gospels to worship Only Allah our Lord, and never claimed himself divinity.

One of many places Jesus alayhi wasallam tells his followers is

Mark 10:

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’

Mark 12:

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’


Jesus also warned in many places in the Gospels of the wrath of God for turning away from the truth, fearing man and not Allah, this is a passage from

Matthew 10:

28"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

If Christians cannot understand the message Jesus alayhi wasallam was given that is because Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala has decided their hearts to the truth are not to be opened. The Qur'an is the true word of Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala. The history of the how the scriptures and Gospels was written astray is something understood when study other beliefs (there is only One religion). The idea of the Trinity originally came from the Hindu belief. Most practice of the Christian belief comes from Hindu, Buddhist and pagan practice, very little is from Islam.

Suban'Allah it was the contradiction in the Gospels from the Scriptures and Christian practice that always had me question the truth of Christianity and when I opened up the Qur'an for the first time, Alhamdulillah, knew the truth had been revealed and I was going to find the meaning of life and our purpose.
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
As-Salamu Alaykum some christians say the Trinity is 1 God in 3 because a person like me i can be a father a son and a brother so christiabs say these roles 1 person can have proves their trinity can be 1 God does this claim make sense ?

Is Trinity logical?
First Argument:
A person can also be a father, a brother and a businessman at the same time, but yet, he is one and the same person. Then why

cannot God be "one in three" i.e. God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?

The same person can be a father, a brother and a businessman at the same time.

"Judeo-Christian Scriptures - A survey of the Bible leaves the honest seeker of truth

Lost …” Dr. Bilal Philips "The Purpose of Creation" http://www.bilalphilips.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/pcreation.pdf

Besides the fact, Allah Subana wa Ta'ala if he so chooses can destroy 'the Son' and the 'Holy Ghost' and then who is left? One, only Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala, the Trinity is Hindu belief practice. period.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
In my humble opinion. The original article here is very poor, and has no useful information.

c. When the Christians speak about the Father in Heaven they have a certain mental picture in mind, of an elderly man some what like Santa Claus sitting on one of the planets with the earth as his foot stool. When they speak about the son, they have a certain mental picture in their mind. A tall handsome man, who has a beard and long hair; somewhat like Jeffery Hunter who did the role of Jesus (pbuh) in the film ‘King of Kings’. When they speak about the Holy Ghost they have a certain mental picture in mind like that of a dove that came upon Jesus (pbuh) when he was baptised or like a spirit at the feast of Pentecost. If we ask the Christians "How many mental pictures do you have when you speak about Trinity?" they say "We have only one picture". They lie when they say this, for 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and not 1.


This is like a joke. But without any humour. In fact it is very insulting and I do not understand why muslims must insult the faith of others in this way. It is very sad.

With respect Mabsoot, you must speak just of Islam because you do not understand how a Christian sees God.


Christians divide up God, attributing him to three distinct parts, and also crucially divide their worship of Him. So, the Christian who believes the above analogy and denies they are distinct parts, does not know his or her own belief! Furthermore, it seems they do not understand the error of saying that God is three in one. "To worship Jesus is fine, because he is God".


With respect Fatima, The Trinity has nothing in common with the Hindu belief.


The Hindu god Ishvara manifests himself in the form of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva.This differs from the Christian doctrine of the Trinity in that it is not a single god revealed in three persons, it is three gods who are all manifestations of one single transcendent "One".


Besides the fact, Allah Subana wa Ta'ala if he so chooses can destroy 'the Son' and the 'Holy Ghost' and then who is left? One, only Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala, the Trinity is Hindu belief practice. period.


The concept of a triune godhead is nothing new from the minds of men without being put there by almighty God. It is Yahweh's way of showing mankind he is knowable. The Trinity gives us a clear understanding of Yahweh's desire for love and community with his greatest creation..us. We ourselves desire this ..to be in community of love with Yahweh for eternity. Prior to creation if Allah was a unitary entity as you believe, Allah would be non-relational, as such would be incapable of providing a basis for human community. It is in our nature to share in a community of love to live with fellow men in loving relationships, such as Yahweh loves us. The doctrine of the Trinity explains this pursuit of love. Because the Trinity has existed for all eternity in a community of love so the human desire for love comes from the reflection of the divine love Yahweh shows for us. Without a Creator who has a plural unity then such an expression of love would be impossible. How the does Allah as a unitary being show this love? The Trinity shows the overwhelming brilliance of a loving God who exists in a vibrant community of love. To know love one has to experience it, one cannot love if one is non-relational. A unitary being cannot know love. A unitary being is unknowable.

Much mention of love I think ya, but that is what Yahweh is to me ~ .LOVE. :)
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
In my humble opinion. The original article here is very poor, and has no useful information.

c. When the Christians speak about the Father in Heaven they have a certain mental picture in mind, of an elderly man some what like Santa Claus sitting on one of the planets with the earth as his foot stool. When they speak about the son, they have a certain mental picture in their mind. A tall handsome man, who has a beard and long hair; somewhat like Jeffery Hunter who did the role of Jesus (pbuh) in the film ‘King of Kings’. When they speak about the Holy Ghost they have a certain mental picture in mind like that of a dove that came upon Jesus (pbuh) when he was baptised or like a spirit at the feast of Pentecost. If we ask the Christians "How many mental pictures do you have when you speak about Trinity?" they say "We have only one picture". They lie when they say this, for 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and not 1.


This is like a joke. But without any humour. In fact it is very insulting and I do not understand why muslims must insult the faith of others in this way. It is very sad.

With respect Mabsoot, you must speak just of Islam because you do not understand how a Christian sees God.


Christians divide up God, attributing him to three distinct parts, and also crucially divide their worship of Him. So, the Christian who believes the above analogy and denies they are distinct parts, does not know his or her own belief! Furthermore, it seems they do not understand the error of saying that God is three in one. "To worship Jesus is fine, because he is God".


With respect Fatima, The Trinity has nothing in common with the Hindu belief.


The Hindu god Ishvara manifests himself in the form of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva.This differs from the Christian doctrine of the Trinity in that it is not a single god revealed in three persons, it is three gods who are all manifestations of one single transcendent "One".


Besides the fact, Allah Subana wa Ta'ala if he so chooses can destroy 'the Son' and the 'Holy Ghost' and then who is left? One, only Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala, the Trinity is Hindu belief practice. period.


The concept of a triune godhead is nothing new from the minds of men without being put there by almighty God. It is Yahweh's way of showing mankind he is knowable. The Trinity gives us a clear understanding of Yahweh's desire for love and community with his greatest creation..us. We ourselves desire this ..to be in community of love with Yahweh for eternity. Prior to creation if Allah was a unitary entity as you believe, Allah would be non-relational, as such would be incapable of providing a basis for human community. It is in our nature to share in a community of love to live with fellow men in loving relationships, such as Yahweh loves us. The doctrine of the Trinity explains this pursuit of love. Because the Trinity has existed for all eternity in a community of love so the human desire for love comes from the reflection of the divine love Yahweh shows for us. Without a Creator who has a plural unity then such an expression of love would be impossible. How the does Allah as a unitary being show this love? The Trinity shows the overwhelming brilliance of a loving God who exists in a vibrant community of love. To know love one has to experience it, one cannot love if one is non-relational. A unitary being cannot know love. A unitary being is unknowable.

Much mention of love I think ya, but that is what Yahweh is to me ~ .LOVE. :)
With all due respect, I just finished my final exam in a World Religion course and studied all beliefs from Aboriginal to Islam, including Hinduism and yes, Christianity got the Trinity from Hinduism but I will not debate with you, you have your opinion I have mine. May Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala keep us guided to the truth Ameen
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
In my humble opinion. The original article here is very poor, and has no useful information.

c. When the Christians speak about the Father in Heaven they have a certain mental picture in mind, of an elderly man some what like Santa Claus sitting on one of the planets with the earth as his foot stool. When they speak about the son, they have a certain mental picture in their mind. A tall handsome man, who has a beard and long hair; somewhat like Jeffery Hunter who did the role of Jesus (pbuh) in the film ‘King of Kings’. When they speak about the Holy Ghost they have a certain mental picture in mind like that of a dove that came upon Jesus (pbuh) when he was baptised or like a spirit at the feast of Pentecost. If we ask the Christians "How many mental pictures do you have when you speak about Trinity?" they say "We have only one picture". They lie when they say this, for 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and not 1.


This is like a joke. But without any humour. In fact it is very insulting and I do not understand why muslims must insult the faith of others in this way. It is very sad.

With respect Mabsoot, you must speak just of Islam because you do not understand how a Christian sees God.


Christians divide up God, attributing him to three distinct parts, and also crucially divide their worship of Him. So, the Christian who believes the above analogy and denies they are distinct parts, does not know his or her own belief! Furthermore, it seems they do not understand the error of saying that God is three in one. "To worship Jesus is fine, because he is God".


With respect Fatima, The Trinity has nothing in common with the Hindu belief.


The Hindu god Ishvara manifests himself in the form of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva.This differs from the Christian doctrine of the Trinity in that it is not a single god revealed in three persons, it is three gods who are all manifestations of one single transcendent "One".


Besides the fact, Allah Subana wa Ta'ala if he so chooses can destroy 'the Son' and the 'Holy Ghost' and then who is left? One, only Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala, the Trinity is Hindu belief practice. period.


The concept of a triune godhead is nothing new from the minds of men without being put there by almighty God. It is Yahweh's way of showing mankind he is knowable. The Trinity gives us a clear understanding of Yahweh's desire for love and community with his greatest creation..us. We ourselves desire this ..to be in community of love with Yahweh for eternity. Prior to creation if Allah was a unitary entity as you believe, Allah would be non-relational, as such would be incapable of providing a basis for human community. It is in our nature to share in a community of love to live with fellow men in loving relationships, such as Yahweh loves us. The doctrine of the Trinity explains this pursuit of love. Because the Trinity has existed for all eternity in a community of love so the human desire for love comes from the reflection of the divine love Yahweh shows for us. Without a Creator who has a plural unity then such an expression of love would be impossible. How the does Allah as a unitary being show this love? The Trinity shows the overwhelming brilliance of a loving God who exists in a vibrant community of love. To know love one has to experience it, one cannot love if one is non-relational. A unitary being cannot know love. A unitary being is unknowable.

Much mention of love I think ya, but that is what Yahweh is to me ~ .LOVE. :)
To add also, the belief I was brought up with in Christianity the Catholic belief most rituals are in direct connection with Hinduism, Buddhism and Pagan rituals. This is why I also believe Jesus alayhi wasallam cursed the fig tree in the Gospels to not bear fruit, Buddhism has direct link to the fig tree, but this is an interpretation of that passage that is a possible warning of what not to follow, there is no proof this is what Jesus alayhi wasallam meant by his cursing it, only Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala knows if this passage is correct and the correct meaning if it was a true message of Jesus alayhi wasallam or if it was man made after the ascension of Jesus alayhi wasallam into Heaven
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
In my humble opinion. The original article here is very poor, and has no useful information.

c. When the Christians speak about the Father in Heaven they have a certain mental picture in mind, of an elderly man some what like Santa Claus sitting on one of the planets with the earth as his foot stool. When they speak about the son, they have a certain mental picture in their mind. A tall handsome man, who has a beard and long hair; somewhat like Jeffery Hunter who did the role of Jesus (pbuh) in the film ‘King of Kings’. When they speak about the Holy Ghost they have a certain mental picture in mind like that of a dove that came upon Jesus (pbuh) when he was baptised or like a spirit at the feast of Pentecost. If we ask the Christians "How many mental pictures do you have when you speak about Trinity?" they say "We have only one picture". They lie when they say this, for 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and not 1.


This is like a joke. But without any humour. In fact it is very insulting and I do not understand why muslims must insult the faith of others in this way. It is very sad.

With respect Mabsoot, you must speak just of Islam because you do not understand how a Christian sees God.


Christians divide up God, attributing him to three distinct parts, and also crucially divide their worship of Him. So, the Christian who believes the above analogy and denies they are distinct parts, does not know his or her own belief! Furthermore, it seems they do not understand the error of saying that God is three in one. "To worship Jesus is fine, because he is God".


With respect Fatima, The Trinity has nothing in common with the Hindu belief.


The Hindu god Ishvara manifests himself in the form of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva.This differs from the Christian doctrine of the Trinity in that it is not a single god revealed in three persons, it is three gods who are all manifestations of one single transcendent "One".


Besides the fact, Allah Subana wa Ta'ala if he so chooses can destroy 'the Son' and the 'Holy Ghost' and then who is left? One, only Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala, the Trinity is Hindu belief practice. period.


The concept of a triune godhead is nothing new from the minds of men without being put there by almighty God. It is Yahweh's way of showing mankind he is knowable. The Trinity gives us a clear understanding of Yahweh's desire for love and community with his greatest creation..us. We ourselves desire this ..to be in community of love with Yahweh for eternity. Prior to creation if Allah was a unitary entity as you believe, Allah would be non-relational, as such would be incapable of providing a basis for human community. It is in our nature to share in a community of love to live with fellow men in loving relationships, such as Yahweh loves us. The doctrine of the Trinity explains this pursuit of love. Because the Trinity has existed for all eternity in a community of love so the human desire for love comes from the reflection of the divine love Yahweh shows for us. Without a Creator who has a plural unity then such an expression of love would be impossible. How the does Allah as a unitary being show this love? The Trinity shows the overwhelming brilliance of a loving God who exists in a vibrant community of love. To know love one has to experience it, one cannot love if one is non-relational. A unitary being cannot know love. A unitary being is unknowable.

Much mention of love I think ya, but that is what Yahweh is to me ~ .LOVE. :)

I honestly never even wanted to touch this question and I shouldn't have. I rather leave the past behind me now that Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala forgave my sins and allowed me to become Muslim so I could have in my life the truth of the Qur'an and the Last Prophet and Messenger Sallallahu alayhi wasallam and with the right guidance of the Muslim way of life I will not be lost again as I once was Insha'Allah.
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Asalamu alaykum, if you would like the true message of Jesus alayhi wasallam, Dr. Bilal Philips is highly recommended reading on this debate. Insha'Allah will help you with your question and who I should have linked up in the first place. May Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala forgive me for expressing my very limited knowledge on this subject

http://www.bilalphilips.com/?page_id=44
 

ouddene bouziane

Junior Member
the concept of the trinity is logically. mentally.historically is refused
logic says that one is not two and two are not three and three are not one
on the rational level is very complicated to accept it
historically. we have many massangers. if it works with the christ the peace be upon him
why doesnt work with the other prophets?
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Asalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakahu , Alhamdulillah, I am taking a free online Foundations of Islamic Studies course through Dr. Bilal Philips online University. This is open to anyone, Muslim and Non Muslim, I have only begun and is very essential to understanding Islam and a brief outline why other beliefs are what they are. Education in the right history will answer these questions. Insha'Allah you will register and begin to learn and find the logical answers you are in search of. http://www.fanarinstitute.com/opencampus/

This is a sample of an answer to your question about the Trinity.

"1.The fourth aspect of Taweed as-Asmaa’ was-Sifaat requires that man not be given the attributes of Allah. For examples in the New Testament Paul takes the figure of Melchizedek, king ofSalem, from the Torah (Genesis 14:18-20) and gives both him and Jesus the divine attribute of having no beginning or end.
a)For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace. He is without father or mother or genealogy, and has neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the son of God he continues a priest forever”. Hebrews 7:1-3
b)So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “Thou are my son, today I have begotten thee”, as he says also in another place, “Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchizedek.” Hebrews 5:5-6

May Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala guide us to the truth and right path the Perfect Faith of logic and reason. Ameen
 

Cariad

Junior Member
With all due respect, I just finished my final exam in a World Religion course and studied all beliefs from Aboriginal to Islam, including Hinduism and yes, Christianity got the Trinity from Hinduism but I will not debate with you, you have your opinion I have mine. May Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala keep us guided to the truth Ameen

I do not wish to debate this matter I respect your right to hold different view to my own, that is same for everybody. But you are wrong to say Christianity got the Trinitarian concept from Hinduism. Their concept of Trinity is very different. Your Religion course must have told you that the three Abrahamic monotheist religions are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Sister if you believe that Allah is the very same God as Yahweh from the beginning of eternity, then I am content with that. For anything else is like window dressing..how we all worship is for each of us to decide our path, Yahweh gave us the choice. We only answer to Yahweh.

We should love and respect each other not saying nasty things about each others Holy Books and thinking one is better person than another. This is not Yahweh's way. As long as we hold God in our heart it does not matter what name you call him by..Yahweh knows who he is..he is all knowing, ya.. He does not need us, but we need him.

Peace and Blessings. C x
 

Cariad

Junior Member
the concept of the trinity is logically. mentally.historically is refused
logic says that one is not two and two are not three and three are not one
on the rational level is very complicated to accept it
historically. we have many massangers. if it works with the christ the peace be upon him
why doesnt work with the other prophets?

Bless you, but you believe different to me, that is ok, no problem. To you Yeshua was just a prophet whereas to me Yeshua was the Messiah. Yeshua was never just a Prophet.

Peace and Blessings. Cx
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
I do not wish to debate this matter I respect your right to hold different view to my own, that is same for everybody. But you are wrong to say Christianity got the Trinitarian concept from Hinduism. Their concept of Trinity is very different. Your Religion course must have told you that the three Abrahamic monotheist religions are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Sister if you believe that Allah is the very same God as Yahweh from the beginning of eternity, then I am content with that. For anything else is like window dressing..how we all worship is for each of us to decide our path, Yahweh gave us the choice. We only answer to Yahweh.

We should love and respect each other not saying nasty things about each others Holy Books and thinking one is better person than another. This is not Yahweh's way. As long as we hold God in our heart it does not matter what name you call him by..Yahweh knows who he is..he is all knowing, ya.. He does not need us, but we need him.

Peace and Blessings. C x

Walikum salam, You are right we have our own opinions and I did not say anything nasty or as I did not intend for that by stating Hinduism, my biological family is all Christian and they do not say I am being nasty by pointing out the distinct similarities, nor do they believe I believe I am better then anyone, we know Hinduism came before the concept of Christianity and also as a former practicing Christian I saw very distinctly the rituals that are shared, but this is my experience. I also spent my doubts for the 43 years (actually 34 years as it was at 9 years old I questioned Christianity) I was a Christian of the validity of the Nicene creed. May Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala guide us to the truth and middle path. Ameen
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Bless you, but you believe different to me, that is ok, no problem. To you Yeshua was just a prophet whereas to me Yeshua was the Messiah. Yeshua was never just a Prophet.

Peace and Blessings. Cx

I believe Eesa is the Messiah, why you say I do not, he is not the Son of God nor is he God, this is different
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Bless you, but you believe different to me, that is ok, no problem. To you Yeshua was just a prophet whereas to me Yeshua was the Messiah. Yeshua was never just a Prophet.

Peace and Blessings. Cx

You should read the Islamic Truth of Eesa alayhi wasallam before you claim I am not a believer in the Messiah please
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Bless you, but you believe different to me, that is ok, no problem. To you Yeshua was just a prophet whereas to me Yeshua was the Messiah. Yeshua was never just a Prophet.

Peace and Blessings. Cx

Walikum Asalamu, I was raised with a Catholic Mother and Protestant Father so controversy in religion was a heated topic within family gatherings and this why I will not argue, as I have been led to the truth away from falsehood so there is no more argument.
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Bless you, but you believe different to me, that is ok, no problem. To you Yeshua was just a prophet whereas to me Yeshua was the Messiah. Yeshua was never just a Prophet.

Peace and Blessings. Cx

A'uzu bil-lahi minash Shayta-nir-rajeem
Bismillah Ar Rahman Ar Raheem

"1 Praise be to Allah Who hath revealed the Scripture unto His slave, and hath not placed therein any crookedness,

2 (But hath made it) straight, to give warning of stern punishment from Him, and to bring unto the believers who do good works the news that theirs will be a fair reward,

3 Wherein they will abide for ever;

4 And to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son,

5 (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie.

6 Yet it may be, if they believe not in this statement, that thou (Muhammad) wilt torment thy soul with grief over their footsteps.

7 Lo! We have placed all that is on the earth as an ornament thereof that We may try them: which of them is best in conduct.

8 And lo! We shall make all that is thereon a barren mound.

9 Or deemest thou that the People of the Cave and the Inscription are a wonder among Our portents ?

10 When the young men fled for refuge to the Cave and said: Our Lord! Give us mercy from Thy presence, and shape for us right conduct in our plight." [Qur'an Al-Kahf 1-10]
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Walikum salam, You are right we have our own opinions and I did not say anything nasty or as I did not intend for that by stating Hinduism, my biological family is all Christian and they do not say I am being nasty by pointing out the distinct similarities, nor do they believe I believe I am better then anyone, we know Hinduism came before the concept of Christianity and also as a former practicing Christian I saw very distinctly the rituals that are shared, but this is my experience. I also spent my doubts for the 43 years (actually 34 years as it was at 9 years old I questioned Christianity) I was a Christian of the validity of the Nicene creed. May Allah Subana Wa Ta'ala guide us to the truth and middle path. Ameen

Sister Fatima, forgive me for saying that for someone who professes a wish not to argue you are trying hard to insults that are not in my posts. My remarks were not addresses to you personally and please accept my apologies if you thought they were. I meant in general terms muslims seek to discredit the Bible, this is clear from the many posts on this forum. I don't know why this need be so, for if the majority of members are muslims, which is the case ya...they will all hold the same view of other faiths. By the rules Christians as myself are somehow hampered giving replies if not wishing to go against the rules of interfaith debate. When does a discourse became a debate? I'm not sure on this point. So why the need to discredit the faiths of others?

Regarding my post 14 above, you replied which is fine, but my reply was in response to another's question. It was not meant as an affront to yourself or what you choose to believe. You are making the assumption that I am not familiar with the Essa or Isa of the Quran. I am, and in my opinion it is not Yeshua.

It is clear to me that the Quran totally misrepresents the Messiah. The very idea of Yahweh having a son in the manner portrayed in the Quran is blasphemous and offensive. Never have Christians believed that Yahweh took Mary as consort to produce a "son". Surely not even Catholics believe this.

Just accept we hold different beliefs and it is for Yahweh alone to decide the rights and wrongs of our choices which we will answer for at the end of days. best we can do is live in Peace and love each other in the Spirit of Yahweh. Because we are nothing without love.

Peace and Blessings. C x
 
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