Cancellation of Quranic Verse

[team51]

Salam aleikum rahmatullah wa barrakatuh

I am familiar with the abrogation of verses in the holy Quran. But I came across this hadith resently:

"There was revealed about those who were killed at Bi’r-Ma’una a Qur’anic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The verse was: ‘Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased.’" Bukhari vol.4 book 52 ch.19 no.69 p.53."

Can someone explain it. Is it really true that the Quran has had a cancelled verse and are it more cancelled verses? Can someone with knowledge give me an answer? And explain more of this hadith, is it really trusthworthy despite it is from Bukhari?

 

[nyerekareem]

i wish that i could give you the exact specifics, but it's kind of like how the new testament of the bible negates some of the old testament. believe it or not, at one time alcohol wasn't haram in islam, however the Prophet SAAWS had felt that ALLAH SWT was hinting something to him, regarding alcohol and a short time later it became haram. but it's important to note that the Prophet SAAWS told the believers that if they can get any benefit from alcohol to do it then because ALLAH SWT still hadn't made it haram but once ALLAH SWT made it haram, no one was allowed to benefit after that.

 

[islamirama]

Are you sure of the source (Bukhari vol.4 book 52 ch.19 no.69 p.53) ? Maybe you should recheck it first because this is the hadith for that source.

This here talks about that incident.

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/companion/14_ali_bin_talib.htm

 

[abdul-aziz]

Salam aleikum rahmatullah wa barrakatuh

I am familiar with the abrogation of verses in the holy Quran. But I came across this hadith resently:

"There was revealed about those who were killed at Bi’r-Ma’una a Qur’anic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The verse was: ‘Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased.’" Bukhari vol.4 book 52 ch.19 no.69 p.53."

Can someone explain it. Is it really true that the Quran has had a cancelled verse and are it more cancelled verses? Can someone with knowledge give me an answer? And explain more of this hadith, is it really trusthworthy despite it is from Bukhari?

your question is funny to me. You say you understand abrogation but don't know "cancelled." Abrogation is synonymous to cancellation so why is it a shock to you. If you are in that depth of studying the Quran then you are so advanced.

There is a study of science with regards to this, it is referred to as Uloom Al-Quran.

This shouldn't trouble at all, it fascinated me and mesmerized me to know some of this science which increased in my Iman 10 folds. SubhanAllah, the prophet, PBUH, was of the best creation of man and a mercy to mankind.

Now to your issue. Rest assured before the prophet, PBUH, died. Angel Gabriel went over the whole Quran with him twice that year. Anas ibn Malaak, ra was the scribe of the prophet, and the prophet would tell him to write then after a while repeat what was written. Not to mention the fact that many of the sahaba, raa, memorized the Quran. When the first distributed copy of the Quran was sent all over, it was after all the scholars of that time confirmed and validated the copies. The Quran was in the hearts of men. The sahaba/scholars that confirmed the Quran copies can be found in the last pages of the madini Arabic Quran.

Now Allah, swt, does what he wants and doesn't need to answer anybody. So if Allah ordered his messenger to cancel or remove something then that is the decree and be assured the prophet, PBUH, would of complied.

The preservation of what we need to know is preserved by Allah. And it will remain that way till Allah, swt, lifts it up from mankind.

wa Allah ya'lam

ps. definition of Abrogation:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abrogation try to stay away from islamophobes surely they will steer you wrong just like their buddy devils do to them.

 

[team51]

Islamirama you are correct, my misstake I think I gave the wrong reference.

Abdul-aziz my brother. I am turning to muslims to get knowledge about my religion, I don't want to be ignorant so thats why I ask.

As I have understand the concept of abrogation, is that it is new verdicts which has come with time. For example making consumation of alcohol haram. But this is the first time that I have ever heard that a verse of the Quran has been REMOVED. Do you know another example of a verse being REMOVED from the Quran?

1. Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Quran unchanged, how can then a verse have been removed?

2. Is this hadith true?

3. Are there more removed verses?

Jazak Allah khair

 

[islamirama]

Islamirama you are correct, my misstake I think I gave the wrong reference.

Abdul-aziz my brother. I am turning to muslims to get knowledge about my religion, I don't want to be ignorant so thats why I ask.

As I have understand the concept of abrogation, is that it is new verdicts which has come with time. For example making consumation of alcohol haram. But this is the first time that I have ever heard that a verse of the Quran has been REMOVED. Do you know another example of a verse being REMOVED from the Quran?

1. Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Quran unchanged, how can then a verse have been removed?

2. Is this hadith true?

3. Are there more removed verses?

Jazak Allah khair

I don't recall ever reading any where or hearing from anyone about any verses being removed. I think you should first provide the hadith you read so it can be checked for it's authenticity before we can move further.

 

[mezeren]

:salam2:

Brother, no verse from Quran was cancelled. Quran is preserved and is perfect.

Unfortunataly, you could find such hadith saying that a goat ate a verse of the Quran and it was later omitted.

instead of doubting Sahih Bukhari or other books some could claim such things.

We respect our scholars but that does not mean they were infallable, did no wrong or what is in their books are all correct or unquestionable.

Such beleif are like those shias' or sufies' beleieves that their imam or sheiks are perfect.

So, instead of doubting the word of Allah we should think that mortals make mistakes.

 

[team51]

Brother Mezeren I agree with you but I would like to have more knowledge about this hadith. I found it in "Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan". In the part "The book of Jihad", hadith number 1211. I would give you the link but it is not possible to link on this forum before you have had 15 posts so you can find the exact reference by searching on Google following search words, the top result will inshallah be a link to that book:

inform our people that we have met our lord 1211

So my questions remain:

1. Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Quran unchanged, how can then a verse have been removed?

2. Is this hadith true?

3. Are there more removed verses?

Jazak Allah khair

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

Here is a comprehensive lecture at our local masjid on 'Concept of Abrogation'. InshaAllah all your doubts will be clarified.

Please have a listen on the link here.

 

[kashif_nazeer]

Brother Mezeren I agree with you but I would like to have more knowledge about this hadith. I found it in "Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan". In the part "The book of Jihad", hadith number 1211. I would give you the link but it is not possible to link on this forum before you have had 15 posts so you can find the exact reference by searching on Google following search words, the top result will inshallah be a link to that book:

inform our people that we have met our lord 1211

So my questions remain:

1. Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Quran unchanged, how can then a verse have been removed?

2. Is this hadith true?

3. Are there more removed verses?

Jazak Allah khair

:salam2:

The verse which were abrogated ,they were replaced by something better.As it says in the Qur'an(translation)::

We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent? Surat Al-Baqarah(2:106)

Some scholars say this was a means for learning stages of sahaba,as a child is taught step by step gradually until,it reaches it's final form.The Qur'an is complete in itself.The verses abrogated are a means to learn as well.

I will quote the following I got from the website http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=17fdc82a853e8ab1430e3d64bce78c98 ::

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh

At the outset, I would like to explain the aspect of naskh (نسخ) in Shariah.

The Jews believe that naskh cannot take place. They say that if naskh is accepted, then it will prove that Allah Ta’ala is prone to mistakes (May Allah forbid). Their understanding of naskh is that Allah Ta’ala made a certain ruling, thinking it was appropriate, and later found out that he had made a mistake, so he changed the ruling (May Allah forbid).

The correct belief is that naskh can take place; and the correct understanding of naskh is that Allah Ta’ala, who is all-knowing, issues his rulings according to the requirements of that time and era. This does not prove that the former ruling was wrong, but it proves that the former ruling was more appropriate for that time and the new ruling is more appropriate for the present time.

Uloomul Quran – Mufti Taqi Uthmani Saheb Pg:160 (Maktabah Darul Uloom Krachi)

A very good example of naskh is the ruling on alcohol. Initially, alcohol was not totally prohibited, because the Sahabah (Radiyallahu Anhum) had just accepted Islam and it would have been difficult for them to abandon something they loved. Therefore, the Quran gradually prohibited alcohol by saying that its harms outweigh its benefits; then it said that it is not permissible to perform salaah in the state of intoxication; and after Islam had settled in firmly in the hearts of the Sahabah (Radiyallahu Anhum), alcohol was totally prohibited.

In this example, the prohibition of alcohol in the end does not prove that its permissibility initially was a mistake, but it proves that permissibility was more appropriate in the initial stages and prohibition was more appropriate in the end.

The aspect of naskh is also explained in the Quran in the following verse:

ما ننسخ من آية أو ننسها نأت بخير منها أو مثلها

Whenever we cancel a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We bring something better or equal to it. (Verse 1:106)

Secondly, Allah Ta’ala has taken the responsibility of safeguarding the Quran. Allah Ta’ala says in the Quran:

إنا نحن نزلنا الذكر وإنا له لحافظون

Verily We have revealed the Reminder (Quran) and We shall certainly be its protectors. (Verse 15:9)

Therefore, any text that proves otherwise will not be accepted.

About the hadith,only a scholar or a muhaddith can tell if it's authentic or not.
Also BrotherinIslam7 gave a nice link go through it inshaAllah.

 

[tariq353]

:salam2:

Similar kind of question,

But In Urdu.

[nyt]hu5m9vtuBCI[/nyt]​

 

[Afzalsheikh]

“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?”
Islamic Quotes

 

[AbdullahHernández]

Brother Mezeren I agree with you but I would like to have more knowledge about this hadith. I found it in "Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan". In the part "The book of Jihad", hadith number 1211. I would give you the link but it is not possible to link on this forum before you have had 15 posts so you can find the exact reference by searching on Google following search words, the top result will inshallah be a link to that book:

inform our people that we have met our lord 1211

So my questions remain:

1. Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Quran unchanged, how can then a verse have been removed?

2. Is this hadith true?

3. Are there more removed verses?

Jazak Allah khair

Asalaamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatu brother. This post has gone dead for some time, and I'm sorry to see that you never received a satisfactory answer. Please allow me to give it a try. I'm a beginning student of knowledge, so please forgive me for any errors.

1) The Hadith in question was about a time when the Qu'ran was changed during the life of the Prophet sullallahu alaihi wa sallam - he was still receiving the wahy, and the Qu'ran was still actively changing during that time according to the plan of Allah azawajaal. It was after his death that the Qu'ran was codified and written, and organized into the numerical system and juz system we have today. Since the time, there have been no changes to the Qu'ran - therefore, yes, the Qu'ran was unchanged once completed and has been perfectly preserved.

2) This Hadith is in Saheeh Bukhari, which is second in authenticity only to the Qu'ran - the study of the science of Hadiths will help you to understand how intensively these hadiths were verified. They are more intensely reviewed than any news, and even more than many scientific papers that are published today (who give no importance to the character, the honesty, the competency and memory of the one who carried the knowledge). It is almost certainly Saheeh.

3) There are NO removed verses. There ARE abrogated verses. These were rulings that, by the decree of Allah, changed because of the special circumstances present for humans. The Messenger sullallahu alaihi wa sallam received pieces from Allah azawajaal, which sometimes changed, or were only revealed in certain circumstances over many years. Some will try to say this is a reason to doubt your faith, claiming it seems the Prophet sullallahu alaihi wa sallam made a mistake, or changed his mind, therefore claiming the wahy isn't from Allah. Subhanallah. Those who are misguided will only ever see the wrong way - they fail to see the ring structure of the Qu'ran, or how the Revelation would be in the completely perfect Ring Structure that it is in, with all of the hidden mysteries that are revealed within it upon further study? How is it possible that, bring revealed in pieces over years with no writing, that it would come together into a perfect book to guide mankind? How is it that this is the only book and sunnah ever to guide evil sinners in pre Islamic Arabia to become the best generations ever seen? A human cannot make or design that brother.
Other questions they do not answer:
How did the wahy come at the perfect time and place every time, but not when it was convenient for the Prophet, sullallahu alaihi wa sallam? Why did he refuse to act, even to defend himself, without the guidance of Allah? If he invented verses for his own gain, why wouldn't the verses come immediately to him? Why did he suffer the worries concerning his wife Aisha RA and remain tortured for so long?

Moving on, there are other abrogated verses, but this is something that you should not delve into deeply without a strong background already. Why? Will you feed a young baby meat? No, because you might kill it. Wait to develop properly before you move to higher level things, because you can accidentally kill your faith and your understanding of Islam. Grow progressively, learn from a Shayk, learn in the way of the Prophet and his companions, refuse any bidah or innovations, and seek the path of the righteous predecessors.

 

[AbdullahHernández]

Brother Mezeren I agree with you but I would like to have more knowledge about this hadith. I found it in "Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan". In the part "The book of Jihad", hadith number 1211. I would give you the link but it is not possible to link on this forum before you have had 15 posts so you can find the exact reference by searching on Google following search words, the top result will inshallah be a link to that book:

inform our people that we have met our lord 1211

So my questions remain:

1. Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Quran unchanged, how can then a verse have been removed?

2. Is this hadith true?

3. Are there more removed verses?

Jazak Allah khair

A definitive answer concerning question 2:

The Hadith is in fact Saheeh, and was found in Sahih Bukhari, book 56 (Jihad), Hadith 18 of 294. Please view it here:

حَدَّثَنَا حَفْصُ بْنُ عُمَرَ الْحَوْضِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا هَمَّامٌ، عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ، عَنْ أَنَسٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ بَعَثَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَقْوَامًا مِنْ بَنِي سُلَيْمٍ إِلَى بَنِي عَامِرٍ فِي سَبْعِينَ، فَلَمَّا قَدِمُوا، قَالَ لَهُمْ خَالِي أَتَقَدَّمُكُمْ، فَإِنْ أَمَّنُونِي حَتَّى أُبَلِّغَهُمْ عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَإِلاَّ كُنْتُمْ مِنِّي قَرِيبًا‏.‏ فَتَقَدَّمَ، فَأَمَّنُوهُ، فَبَيْنَمَا يُحَدِّثُهُمْ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذْ أَوْمَئُوا إِلَى رَجُلٍ مِنْهُمْ، فَطَعَنَهُ فَأَنْفَذَهُ فَقَالَ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ، فُزْتُ وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ‏.‏ ثُمَّ مَالُوا عَلَى بَقِيَّةِ أَصْحَابِهِ فَقَتَلُوهُمْ، إِلاَّ رَجُلاً أَعْرَجَ صَعِدَ الْجَبَلَ‏.‏ قَالَ هَمَّامٌ فَأُرَاهُ آخَرَ مَعَهُ، فَأَخْبَرَ جِبْرِيلُ ـ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ ـ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنَّهُمْ قَدْ لَقُوا رَبَّهُمْ، فَرَضِيَ عَنْهُمْ وَأَرْضَاهُمْ، فَكُنَّا نَقْرَأُ أَنْ بَلِّغُوا قَوْمَنَا أَنْ قَدْ لَقِينَا رَبَّنَا فَرَضِيَ عَنَّا وَأَرْضَانَا‏.‏ ثُمَّ نُسِخَ بَعْدُ، فَدَعَا عَلَيْهِمْ أَرْبَعِينَ صَبَاحًا، عَلَى رِعْلٍ وَذَكْوَانَ وَبَنِي لِحْيَانَ وَبَنِي عُصَيَّةَ الَّذِينَ عَصَوُا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Narrated by Anas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) sent seventy men from the tribe of Bani Salim to the tribe of Bani Amir. When they reached there, my maternal uncle said to them, "I will go ahead of you, and if they allow me to convey the message of Allah's Messenger (it will be all right); otherwise you will remain close to me." So he went ahead of them and the pagans granted him security But while he was reporting the message of the Prophet (ﷺ) , they beckoned to one of their men who stabbed him to death. My maternal uncle said, "Allah is Greater! By the Lord of the Ka`ba, I am successful." After that they attached the rest of the party and killed them all except a lame man who went up to the top of the mountain. (Hammam, a sub-narrator said, "I think another man was saved along with him)." Gabriel informed the Prophet (ﷺ) that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord, and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite, "Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and He has made us
pleased " Later on this Qur'anic Verse was cancelled. The Prophet (ﷺ) invoked Allah for forty days to curse the murderers from the tribe of Ral, Dhakwan, Bani Lihyan and Bam Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and his Apostle.
Sahih al-Bukhari 2801
Book 56 Hadith 18
Grade Sahih
via https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quarterpi.hadithcollection

 

[Abu Juwairiya]

i wish that i could give you the exact specifics, but it's kind of like how the new testament of the bible negates some of the old testament. believe it or not, at one time alcohol wasn't haram in islam, however the Prophet SAAWS had felt that ALLAH SWT was hinting something to him, regarding alcohol and a short time later it became haram. but it's important to note that the Prophet SAAWS told the believers that if they can get any benefit from alcohol to do it then because ALLAH SWT still hadn't made it haram but once ALLAH SWT made it haram, no one was allowed to benefit after that.

I find your words really abhorrent.

It is possible you have used expressions and comments without thinking and realising you are treading on dangerous waters by suggesting or inferring beliefs we do not hold.

'The Prophet SAW had felt that Allah SWT was hinting something to him'

'Its important to know that the Prophet SAW told the believers that if they can get any benefit from alcohol to do it then because Allah SWT still hadn't made it haram, but once Allah SWT made it haram, no one was allowed to benefit after that.'

You are correct to say alcohol was initially not haram, but the laws and eventual ban on it had nothing to do with the Prophet. As alcohol was something that was so prevalent and culturally intrinsic at the time among the Arabian tribes, it was necessary to take it away from them slowly so that they can overcome its addiction easier. Second, there is no evidence the Prophet had hints given to him about this. Third, the words about benefits from alcohol are just as general. Muslims of the time and Muslims to this day do not require any more than this.

There was never a time when the Prophet SAW said the Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) should do it (i.e. derive benefit from it). Your words are deeply hurtful, offensive and insulting. Please refrain from saying things that we do not believe in as facts.