Dawah help

justoneofmillion

Junior Member

:salam2:That was really a low and undignified attempt, you understood what I meant very well and still you did not answer the questions once again.

You did not produce a single evidence neither did your overzealous buddies with your God self appropriated rights to label others and create enmity and separation among Muslims in consequence.

Not a single unequivocal statement nothing! from the Quraan or the Sunnah after all this time, to prove your case and carry on making Haraam what Allah swt and his messenger did not.

Until then,stop wasting our time if your will is to deprive yourself from your God given intelligence by simply repeating or copy pasting what you heard without genuine analysis,Jazakhallah khair.
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2:,That was really a low and undignified attempt, you understood what I meant very well and still you did not answer the questions once again.

:salam2:
Pls look at what i posted about shirk because i think that you haven't understood me well. I was simply correcting you and nothing else because what you wrote about Umar ra wasn't true.

They change laws to a adapt to a godless system like for sodomites marriages for example , we don't we only do it in cases of necessity(Darurat wal Haja)

The example you gave about Umar does not fit in with what you are saying at all, because he did not change any law whatsoever. The laws of islam are infinite and will apply to any society at any given time and changing it to suit our desires is not allowed at all.

I believe that i have given enough evidence to prove my point and continuing any further will simply be of no use to me, you or anyone else. So pls sister lets end it here. What i would suggest to you is to read what scholars have said about this issue.
May Allah swt guide us all to the true path and keep us steadfast always

:wasalam:
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
I believe that i have given enough evidence to prove my point and continuing

:wasalam:
:salam2:No,you did not provide a single statement from the QUraan or the Sunnah, and everybody can read what you posted!it is just your ego that is tickling you to claim so.

It is incredible how you find ways to make me say what I did not intend by quoting me out of context and deviate from the subject and not answer the questions!and thus neglect the Sunnah of husn az zan of which you claim to be the guardian,when everybody here has shown you but kindness and mercy.You have issues brother revise your heart before you even start to do Dawah to people.

Although this is not the discussion we were engaged in ,you understood very well what I Said I did not need to repeat myself,please again stop wasting our time without serious evidence.Time will teach you enough Humility and courage Inshallah my friend I pray Allah swt for it and I pray to him to guide us all
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2:No,you did not provide a single statement from the QUraan or the Sunnah, and everybody can read what you posted!it is just your ego that is tickling you to claim so.

It is incredible how you find ways to make me say what I did not intend by quoting me out of context and deviate from the subject and not answer the questions!and thus neglect the Sunnah of husn az zan of which you claim to be the guardian,when everybody here has shown you but kindness and mercy.You have issues brother revise your heart.

Although this is not the discussion we were engaged in ,you understood very well what I Said I did not need to repeat myself,please again stop wasting our time without serious evidence.Time will teach you enough Humility and courage Inshallah my friend I pray Allah swt for it and I pray to him to guide us all

:salam2:
So you mean to say all that i've posted was complete nonsense including?? So concerning the issue about worshipping men as lords, isn't this what is happening in western countries and also some muslim countries?? are you refusing this ??? If i quoted you out of context pls tell me because it may be that you need to elaborate more on some of your opinions so that i can truly understand what you are suggesting/implying. What more serious evidence do you need other than quran and sunnah? which i have both included as evidences, but i wonder have you done such a thing?

Why are you getting upset, i have not insulted you ? To me it seems you are taking things personal because of our disagreement which is way i stated in the beginning that we need to refer to the quran and sunnah to solve our disagreements, because i knew it would lead to situation like this. Pls i really would advise you to search further into this issue like i have, and when you have let me know of your decision.

:wasalam:
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:
So you mean to say all that i've posted was complete nonsense including?? So concerning the issue about worshipping men as lords, isn't this what is happening in western countries and also some muslim countries?? are you refusing this ??? If i quoted you out of context pls tell me because it may be that you need to elaborate more on some of your opinions so that i can truly understand what you are suggesting/implying. What more serious evidence do you need other than quran and sunnah? which i have both included as evidences, but i wonder have you done such a thing?

Why are you getting upset, i have not insulted you ? To me it seems you are taking things personal because of our disagreement which is way i stated in the beginning that we need to refer to the quran and sunnah to solve our disagreements, because i knew it would lead to situation like this. Pls i really would advise you to search further into this issue like i have, and when you have let me know of your decision.

:wasalam:
.I have stormed the doors of all palaces akhi am not answerable to anybody and I bow down to Allah swt alone as he was the only one to be there for me when I needed,let alone giving my anger or sadness to a simple mortal,when there is no need.

Who is saying anything about taking things personal or not... fact check you did not provide evidence and that is what it is all about,nothing more. You even said for example that the Rule of Law and the Equality before the law which I and others have explained over and over again is not Islamic!With historical example we gave you evidence from the Quraan ,from the Sunnah,Yet you did not correct yourself afterwards!

How do you want anybody to wast his time discussing with you when you alienate yourself from very basic principles that a school child would comprehend, just for the sake of refuting and thus appearing pious in front of others.People have their lives as much as you do akhi,we can not be on TTI 24 hours and go through every mistake you made because they are nummerous...

You change the subject by clinging unto every opportunity to disqualify your interlocutor through the alibi of ignorance with the Dogmatic stance of genetic fallacy and thus think to buy your way out in this fashion.Any discerning and god fearing person would call it way of not responsibly facing your own contradictions and simple logic.

.You have not provided a single evidence form the Quraan and the Sunnah.

And the fatwas that you probably mistake with revelation are not void of errors in this case they are very flawed and out of touch with reality.The only logic explication is that they are influenced by certain powers who wanna keep the status quo because of Geo-Strategical and internal interests . The reasoning behind is flawed and not void of subjectivity ,that's all. You can even use fatwas to justify the presence of Kuffar armies in Muslim lands isn't it!

And most of all you did not answer the questions.

Wassalaam
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
.I have stormed the doors of all palaces akhi am not answerable to anybody and I bow down to Allah swt alone as he was the only one to be there for me when I needed,let alone giving my anger or sadness to a simple mortal.

Who is saying anything about taking things personal or not... fact check you did not provide evidence and that is what it is all about,nothing more. You even said for example that the Rule of Law and the Equality before the law which I and others have explained over and over again is not Islamic!With historical example we gave you evidence from the Quraan ,from the Sunnah,Yet you did not correct yourself afterwards!

How do you want anybody to wast his time discussing with you when you alienate yourself from very basic principles that a school child would comprehend, just for the sake of refuting and thus appearing pious in front of others.People have their lives as much as you do akhi,we can not be on TTI 24 hours and go through every mistake you made because they are nummerous...

You change the subject by clinging unto every opportunity to disqualify your interlocutor through the alibi of ignorance with the Dogmatic stance of genetic fallacy and thus think to buy your way out in this fashion.Any discerning and god fearing person would call it way of not responsibly facing your own contradictions and simple logic.

.You have not provided a single evidence form the Quraan and the Sunnah.

And the fatwas that you probably mistake with revelation are not void of errors in this case they are very flawed and out of touch with reality.The only logic explication is that they are influenced by certain powers who wanna keep the status quo because of Geo-Strategical and internal interests . The reasoning behind is flawed and not void of subjectivity ,that's all.
You can even use fatwas to justify the presence of Kuffar armies in Muslim lands isn't it!

And most of all you did not answer the questions.

Wassalaam

Let me clarify a few things first, i rejected the idea that the five basic principles of democracy were perfectly compatible with islam. The principles were rule of law, equality, separation of powers,accountability and universal suffrage.

You have not provided a single evidence form the Quraan and the Sunnah

I can easily prove to you that i did and you are clearly ignoring it

"They(jews and christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah) and they (they also took as their lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (mary) while they (jews and christians) were commanded (in the torah and gospel) to worship one Ilah (god i.e, Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and Glory is to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." {Q 9:31}.

Once while Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was reciting the above verse 'Adl bin Hatim said, "O Allah's Prophet! They do not worship them (rabbi and monks)." Allah's Messenger said, "They certainly do. They ( i.e rabbis and monks) made legal things illegal, and illegal things legal and they ( jews and christians) followed them; and by doing so they really worshiped them."
(Narrated by Ahmad, At Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir). (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol.10, Page No. 114)

Ok lets expand on the above evidence.

We can clearly see the comparison between what the jews and christians were doing then and what they are doing now?? So what is the comparison?
They are taking mere humans as lords ,by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah which is what some people are doing in some muslims countries that are democratic!!!!. What do you call this?? is this not a clear evidence against it?

Also since you say the basic principles are the same then certainly they must bear resemblence to each other eg
The rule of law in both America and Saudi arabia should be the same, but is it the same??. Since one is democratic and the other an islamic state, then they must perfectly fit together just like you said, but are they??


And the fatwas that you probably mistake with revelation are not void of errors in this case they are very flawed and out of touch with reality.The only logic explication is that they are influenced by certain powers who wanna keep the status quo because of Geo-Strategical and internal interests . The reasoning behind is flawed and not void of subjectivity ,that's all.

So what you are basically saying is that they are wrong on this issue even though they have spent their entire life learning the deen and dedicated themselves with knoweledge

Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Say: Are they equal, those who have knowledge and those who do not? But only the men of understanding will take admonition." [Soorah Zumar 39:9].

"Allaah will raise up in degrees those of you who believe and those who have been granted knowledge." [Soorah al-Mujaadalah 58:11].

"It is only those who possess knowledge amongst His slaves that fear Allaah" [Soorah Faatir 35:28]. "Indeed those who believe and do righteous actions, they are the best of creatures ... This is for those who fear their Lord." [Soorah al-Bayyinah 98:7-8].


Ibn Jamaa'ah, rahimahullaah, said:

"So Allaah decreed in these two Verses that the scholars are those who most fear Allaah, and that those who fear Allaah are the best of creatures. The consequence of this is that the scholars are therefore the best of creatures."

The Prophet sallallaahu 'alalyhi wa sallam said:

"The superiority of the scholar over the worshipper is like that of the full moon on a clear night over the rest of the stars. Indeed the scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets and the Prophets do not leave behind them the deenaar nor the dirham as inheritance, they leave only knowledge behind as inheritance. So whosoever aquires it, aquires a huge fortune." [1] Reported by Abu Dawood, At-Tirmidhee and Ibn Hibbaan, and this is the wording found in his collection, in abridged form. Al-Bukhaaree mentioned in his Saheeh Collection in his Book of Knowledge, Chapter: Knowledge precedes Speech and Action, the part from it: “The scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets.”


You can even use fatwas to justify the presence of Kuffar armies in Muslim lands isn't it!

Ukhti i think i'll end it here and may Allah swt guide you

:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

I believe one fundamental mistake you are making is the association of Judeo-Christian principles and democracy. They are not the same. Your mistake is confusing the two faiths with a system that is not faith based.

And you make it clear that you reject democracy. It is personal.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
"They(jews and christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah) and they (they also took as their lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (mary) while they (jews and christians) were commanded (in the torah and gospel) to worship one Ilah (god i.e, Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and Glory is to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." {Q 9:31}.

Once while Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was reciting the above verse 'Adl bin Hatim said, "O Allah's Prophet! They do not worship them (rabbi and monks)." Allah's Messenger said, "They certainly do. They ( i.e rabbis and monks) made legal things illegal, and illegal things legal and they ( jews and christians) followed them; and by doing so they really worshiped them."
(Narrated by Ahmad, At Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir). (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol.10, Page No. 114)

Ok lets expand on the above evidence.

We can clearly see the comparison between what the jews and christians were doing then and what they are doing now?? So what is the comparison?
They are taking mere humans as lords ,by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah which is what some people are doing in some muslims countries that are democratic!!!!. What do you call this?? is this not a clear evidence against it?

:wasalam:
:salam2: this is your "Evidence"against the Rule of Law and co,you misread the whole book this is a massacre !!!.Subhanallah you accuse the Jews and the Christians of blindly following their priests And that is exactly what you are doing when you follow blindly!You are subjective and it shows in every argument you put forward!'Thus when you point fingers at the other like you do three are pointing back at you,even Monet couldn't come up with such magnificent imagery.Allahu Akbar!

You look so much faults in others outside of yourself that you fail to see what is in front of your nose!It is true that scholars have more knowledge but their evidences is out for scrutiny unless you believe them to be infallible like you do.And in this case their evidence is flawed.And you can not put that as an excuse on the day of judgment that you followed blindly and you were misguided on a certain issue (Ironically certain sects of Sufism do that).Because Allah swt gave you an intelligence the impartiality of analytical reason ..etc.You arguments have been clearly refuted.

You are clearly misguided on this issue Muslimboy and those misguiding you are the ones telling you to submit to oppression and call others to do so and not to stand for justice above all, waiting for Allah swt to do the job in your place!Not the other way around ,Allah swt does not guide the lazy nor was this message sent for mere contemplation, open your eyes and get yourself toughether.

May Allah swt guide you to worship him alone.I will not let you misguide others,am sorry we have had enough bloodshed and innocent lives taken.And everytime you light the flame of sectarianism you will find a wall in front of you .

PS. For the record I am a brother in case you misread that too. ukhti means sister in Arabic,you kept repeating it many times I had to correct that .

Jazakhallahu khairan for wishing me guidance.Ameen
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2: this is your "Evidence"against the Rule of Law and co,you misread the whole book this is a massacre !!!.Subhanallah you accuse the Jews and the Christians of blindly following their priests And that is exactly what you are doing when you follow blindly!You are subjective and it shows in every argument you put forward!'Thus when you point fingers at the other like you do three are pointing back at you,even Monet couldn't come up with such magnificent imagery.Allahu Akbar!

You look so much faults in others outside of yourself that you fail to see what is in front of your nose!It is true that scholars have more knowledge but their evidences is out for scrutiny unless you believe them to be infallible like you do.And in this case their evidence is flawed.And you can not put that as an excuse on the day of judgment that you followed blindly and you were misguided on a certain issue (Ironically certain sects of Sufism do that).Because Allah swt gave you an intelligence the impartiality of analytical reason ..etc.You arguments have been clearly refuted.

You are clearly misguided on this issue Muslimboy and those misguiding you are the ones telling you to submit to oppression and call others to do so and not to stand for justice above all, waiting for Allah swt to do the job in your place!Not the other way around ,Allah swt does not guide the lazy nor was this message sent for mere contemplation, open your eyes and get yourself toughether.

May Allah swt guide you to worship him alone.I will not let you misguide others,am sorry we have had enough bloodshed and innocent lives taken.And everytime you light the flame of sectarianism you will find a wall in front of you .

PS. For the record I am a brother in case you misread that too. ukhti means sister in Arabic,you kept repeating it many times I had to correct that .

Jazakhallahu khairan for wishing me guidance.Ameen

:salam2:
Sorry for calling you ukhti i actually didnt read your profile, i just looked at your name sorry for that, i hope to be forgiven on that matter.

I am not accusing anyone, this is what Allah swt says in his quran. Thats is why they have strayed from the truth path of only worshipping the one true Ilah Allah. They were not only following them blindly but worshipping them too pls read carefully what i posted. Their evidence about democracy is flawed while yours is correct?? You can keep saying i am misguided but that wont change anything because the truth on this matter is clear and obvious . You say i ignite the light of sectanirism but what about the democracy you are defending doesn't it lead to division?? since it advocates for creation of multiple parties which causes divsion and hatred among the muslims. Doesn't go against islam because Allah swt says

The believers are nothing else than brothers (in Islamic religion). So make reconciliation between your brothers, and fear Allah, that you may receive mercy. (Q 49:10)

And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Quran), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah's Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islamic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided. (Q3:103)



I believe one fundamental mistake you are making is the association of Judeo-Christian principles and democracy. They are not the same. Your mistake is confusing the two faiths with a system that is not faith based.

And you make it clear that you reject democracy. It is personal.

I am not associating anything here but what i did was to give an example of shirk in modern day democracy. I do know that democracy and judeo-chrisitan principles are different but still they have something in common which is people are being worshipped as gods, in the case of jews& christians they are taking their monks and rabbis as lords, while in democracy lawgivers,parlimentarians, etc are being worshipped as gods & elevated to the position of the legislator. Isnt this the reality of democracy? How can this be compatible with islam?? Pls dont say i am using western democracy as an example, because this is what is understood as being democracy? Just ask any kuffar?? What some muslims are doing is simply trying to change democracy to suit islam, which is clearly a big mistake because as muslims we believe that islam is perfect since it is a guidance from Allah swt and altering this suit to our desires is totally wrong.
This is one of the reasons why christians and jews are misguided because they kept changing the religion until they corrupted it. Thats why we as muslims are commanded to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil. You say this is a personal issue but it is not. I would advise you to read what the scholars (ahlu sunnah) have said about democracy.

:wasalam:
 
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