Serious Deadly attack on satirical magazine in Paris

kiana

Junior Member
If these barbarians had an issue with that mazagine, they could always choose to voice their opinion by a peaceful protest. But no, muslims don't want to learn the basic norms of a civilized society.

I guess it is time for people like me to pack their things to go back to where we belong, before some outrageous europeans start burning our houses. Back to hell. Yes, our countries, which have been turned to hell by the same barbarians.

Muslims will be provoked no matter how peaceful they are. There is no way around it. Anyone who thinks the West wants peace with followers of the Quran is a mere fool. They will never be pleased with you. The moment you bend your faith for them, they will work to corrupt your sons and daughters. This is simply Shaytan's methodical plan to destroy Muslims step-by-step.

I do not apologize for the killings, because I did not commit the crime...and quite frankly, I don't care about the fatal consequence those cartoonists put themselves in. A racist gets killed is still a racist.



Also, you say "muslims don't want to learn the basic norms of a civilized society." Are you serious? You want us to conform to a filthy society that allows women to be naked? You want us to accept gay marriage? You want us to indulge in alcohol and pork? No thank you!

Is it THEY who need to learn about MY MUSLIM NORMS if they want to wash the filth out of their souls.
 

saif

Junior Member
Muslims will be provoked no matter how peaceful they are. There is no way around it. Anyone who thinks the West wants peace with followers of the Quran is a mere fool. They will never be pleased with you. The moment you bend your faith for them, they will work to corrupt your sons and daughters. This is simply Shaytan's methodical plan to destroy Muslims step-by-step.

I don't care what sinister plans they have. And even if they conspire, it should be within our expectation. My concern is though, how on earth could they find muslims to kill others. Why does Mullah Fazlullah slaugher school children, when he for sure has memorized more Quran than myself. He looks like a more pious muslim than myself. Even the Boko-Haram guy looks more pious a muslim and he surely knows more verses of Quran than I do, yet he is killing innocents and abducting girls. We keep on say, this is not Islam, this is not Islam, yet when our brothers conduct those barbaric acts, they are shouting Allahu Akbar. Under these circumstances, the non-muslims have all the right to say, this seems to be Islam. So I don't care about others. I am concerned about the muslims.

I do not apologize for the killings, because I did not commit the crime...and quite frankly, I don't care about the fatal consequence those cartoonists put themselves in. A racist gets killed is still a racist.
You have all the right to consider them racists. But since when can you kill all racists? I know many muslim racits. Should I start killing them? Ok, you and I have not killed anybody, so why should we apologize for that. But to condemn such an action by strongest words is the least we can do. Afterfall it was done in the name of our religion and we cannot just see the name of our religion pulled into dirt that way.

Also, you say "muslims don't want to learn the basic norms of a civilized society." Are you serious? You want us to conform to a filthy society that allows women to be naked? You want us to accept gay marriage? You want us to indulge in alcohol and pork? No thank you!

That's all your own interpretation of my words. Nobody is asking you to drink alcohol, eat pork or get nacked. Yet there are some norms, which are common to humanity. And among them is the norm to voice your opinion without killing others.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
Muslims will be provoked no matter how peaceful they are. There is no way around it. Anyone who thinks the West wants peace with followers of the Quran is a mere fool. They will never be pleased with you. The moment you bend your faith for them, they will work to corrupt your sons and daughters. This is simply Shaytan's methodical plan to destroy Muslims step-by-step.

I do not apologize for the killings, because I did not commit the crime...and quite frankly, I don't care about the fatal consequence those cartoonists put themselves in. A racist gets killed is still a racist.



Also, you say "muslims don't want to learn the basic norms of a civilized society." Are you serious? You want us to conform to a filthy society that allows women to be naked? You want us to accept gay marriage? You want us to indulge in alcohol and pork? No thank you!

Is it THEY who need to learn about MY MUSLIM NORMS if they want to wash the filth out of their souls.

Kiana, you need to calm down. You are correct that we as muslims should not apologize for the killings because we did not commit those crimes. But when you say things like "they are filthy" and "allow their women to be naked" - cmon, you know that's not true. Christians and Jews are people of the book. How would you like it if they said about our religion that we force women to dress like ninja's, all in dark capes? Or that we slaughter women for having pre-marital sex but we forgive murderers? I don't think it benefits anyone to cast derogatory comments about each other -- it just lead to more hatred and, hence, violence.
 

cabdixakim

Junior Member
From Allah we are and to Him is our return.

I can understand why the leaders of the Muslim nations if there is any left have cried,marched with their disbelieving friends and why they felt so much sympathy for people who intentionally,willingly and proudly mocked the prophet(slal'Lahu caleyhi wasal'lam) and referred them as innocents yet when they never did so or with little effects when thousands of Muslims get killed and slaughtered?it's because of their love for the Dunya they did so.
I can see why the scholars were quick to giving fatwas in defence of those men who mocked the prophet(sal'Lahu caleyhi wasal'lam) and referring them as innocents yet they didn't give fatwas regarding the Gaza massacre and the Budhist Brutality against helpless Muslims? Because they face a gunpoint.
I can understand why ordinary Muslims(mainly those using social networks) are so much apologetic and so much hurt when their hosts are hurt?it's because they are fearful and hate death and their lives ruined....

So it sums up to the Wahn put into our hearts by Allah(subxanahu watacala) as foretold by His messenger(slal'Lahu caleyhi wal'lam) will be at the end of times.

But I can't understand this one thing,when we clearly see how much biased the media is why do we blind ourselves? Surely that is not the cause of wahn this time!

Why do we cry when the media alarms us to cry?

If it was only our good heart for a pure society free of extremism why didn't we cry this loudly when the Sydney attack occurred? Wasn't it done by(those we refer as extremists)?

We claim we do this out of pure hatred for extremism yet to our oblivion or little attention Buddhists killed and kill innocent lives,BoKo Haraam kills them by the thousands,why are those crying about this so few then?
Surely this intense media influence on us can't be just the cause of wahn!

Talking about a tiny thing while concealing it's graver comparative,isn't that serious double standards?

Or when they reprint as they said they will, what will you do? Would you blame some extremist have acted before you could get the chance?...or take some sleeping pills and sleep deep!!!?


" And among men are those whom you'll be amazed with their words..."

I'm fearful of nifaq for myself(I sometimes come to mosque when the salaatul 'jamaacah' is done which is a sign of the hypocrites) subxanah'Lahi how much do we scorn that!...O Allah I seek refuge in you from hypocrisy.

O Allah make us not a trial for those who are unjust,bestow us with patience,affirm our feet and assist us against the people of disbelief... May peace and blessings of Allah be upon His final and last Messenger,the best and most honoured of His creations(slal'Lahu caleyhi wala'lam)...aamiin
 

Abu Juwairiya

Junior Member
Okay, I can see, that you are a subscriber of those fatwas and I am fine with that too. You must have your reasons.

Everybody will say, the hijrah becomes a compulsion, when your Eeman is in danger or when you cannot perform your duties towards your Creator. That means, under these "exceptional circumstances", it is an implication of your imaan, that you do hijrah.

For you, or for those muftis, however, is living in a non-muslim country an exception under certain conditions.

I must add here, that if being da'ii means "twasi bil haq" and "twasi bissabar", then it is a complusion on every muslim, irrespective of his place of living

I think it is best that we should end our discussion here and to accept that the next course of action between us is to agree to disagree on several points over topics and issues that are likely to be of variance due to doctrinal differences without further elaboration.

As a student of religion I have my reasons for holding the values, opinions, solutions and responsibilities that I share with my fellow trainees and colleagues. You obviously have yours and believe in them as passionately as I do to mine. As members of the same faith we can still work together on what we do agree without ignoring the disparity in views on where we differ, yet retain mutual affection within the boundary of brotherhood.

As you will know Umar Ibn Khattab held over a hundred differences with another Companion of the Prophet (SAW), yet the two men were close brothers in arms, had the greatest respect, admiration, love, esteem and affection for another until the end of their lives.

The principal purpose between Muslims when there is conflict of opinion, is to share common ground in where it is essential to do to establish, uphold, consolidate and retain a firm foothold in the foundation stones of the Religion and its official creed and benchmark.

I will not be replying to the use of the 'concept, 'Kafirun', in a separate message as I had hoped, as now I think you will agree, there is no point to it. I hope you understand.
 

saif

Junior Member
I can understand why the leaders of the Muslim nations if there is any left have cried,marched with their disbelieving friends and why they felt so much sympathy for people who intentionally,willingly and proudly mocked the prophet(slal'Lahu caleyhi wasal'lam) and referred them as innocents yet when they never did so or with little effects when thousands of Muslims get killed and slaughtered?it's because of their love for the Dunya they did so.

Assalamu alaikum brother candixahim,

Maybe before commenting on the muslim rulers, you should read this thread from another very pious brother "Blame yourself or blame the rulers". In the light of this thread, you will have to agree with my strategy of criticizing ourselves (i.e. the muslims). I have never said, they were innocents. But I have also said, even in an islamic country, they should not get the capital punishment. See my post on the blasphemy laws in Pakistan in this very thread. But even if you hold the position of capital punishment, those two brothers never had the right to execute that.

I can see why the scholars were quick to giving fatwas in defence of those men who mocked the prophet(sal'Lahu caleyhi wasal'lam) and referring them as innocents yet they didn't give fatwas regarding the Gaza massacre and the Budhist Brutality against helpless Muslims? Because they face a gunpoint.

Please give me the addresses of those scholars, who are declaring them to be innocent. I would like protest against that and at the same time thank them for not supporting the killers.

I can understand why ordinary Muslims(mainly those using social networks) are so much apologetic and so much hurt when their hosts are hurt?it's because they are fearful and hate death and their lives ruined....
The one, who is not thankful to human beings cannot be thankful to God. Our hosts were not so keen to fill their countries with us. Mostly, it was the muslims, who, by right or wrong claims applied for an asylum here. It was the muslims, who claimed, that their lives in places like Somalia were not safe. It should not hurt you, that some of those muslims, who are really thankful to their hosts, do not want their new homeland to become Somalia. If the same muslims are involved in the killing, who were given shelter here, then it is the peak of unthankfulness. May Allah be my wittness, that I do not want to be one of them.

So it sums up to the Wahn put into our hearts by Allah(subxanahu watacala) as foretold by His messenger(slal'Lahu caleyhi wal'lam) will be at the end of times.

The days of Wahn seem to be long gone. We are having difficulties convincing them not to use suicide attacks. Maybe our forefathers had fear for their lives. Today's muslims have lost respect for all sorts of lives: Their own and the others'.

But I can't understand this one thing,when we clearly see how much biased the media is why do we blind ourselves? Surely that is not the cause of wahn this time!
Why do we cry when the media alarms us to cry?
If it was only our good heart for a pure society free of extremism why didn't we cry this loudly when the Sydney attack occurred? Wasn't it done by(those we refer as extremists)?
We claim we do this out of pure hatred for extremism yet to our oblivion or little attention Buddhists killed and kill innocent lives,BoKo Haraam kills them by the thousands,why are those crying about this so few then?
Surely this intense media influence on us can't be just the cause of wahn!

Mainstream media is biased. This is for sure. But Allah has created so many alternatives, that we cannot complain anymore. Yet the news of BoKo Haraam killings or the killings of the muslims through budhists has reached us through media. Now it is upon us, what to do with that news. Why didn't muslims start peace marches on that news? If the muslims had done that, they would have got the media coverage too. It is our own lethargy, which we are blaming on others.

As for myself, I mourn every death. But I cannot cry with equal intensity on every death. You should take it as a human nature, that I am more attached to the children killed in Peshawar than any muslims living in Nigeria. I seek foregiveness of Allah for this weakness.

I'm fearful of nifaq for myself(I sometimes come to mosque when the salaatul 'jamaacah' is done which is a sign of the hypocrites) subxanah'Lahi how much do we scorn that!...O Allah I seek refuge in you from hypocrisy.
May Allah save us all from nifaaq. But why did you think, this kind of loud-thinking was necessary? Our legs are already bent with the burden of your piety.

Wassalamu alaikum
 

saif

Junior Member
I think it is best that we should end our discussion here and to accept that the next course of action between us is to agree to disagree on several points over topics and issues that are likely to be of variance due to doctrinal differences without further elaboration.

Assalamu alaikum brother Abu Juwairiya,
I already said, I am ok with that. There is no sense in keeping on prolonging the discussion, when a convergence is not possible. Only, in that case it should be clear, what the different positions are and why each of us is holding those positions. It was in this spirite, that it was necessary for me to highlight that fine line between your and my position.

I also admire your manners. You are a pleasant brother to have a discussion with. This is because you understand, that the small differences should not allow us to be disrespectful to our brothers and sisters. May other muslims, who are taking lives of their brothers for even smaller differences learn from you.

However, I can sense some disappointment in the way you are parting your ways. Believe me, I am not as stubborn, as you think I am. I have a track record of appologizing in this forum, whenever I have noticed my mistake. It is your own choice to respond or not to respond and I will not object to that. I hope you understand, that it is my right to express myself on whatever topic I want. If you think, I am gravely mistaken, you are most welcome to correct me. I would rather agree to disagree on topic to topic basis. They way you are agreeing to disagree sounds like a "salaam" to me : ) (I know, you have already understood, what salaam I mean but for others who may not have understood, I am refering to that sepcial salaam to juhalaa in Surah Al-Furqaan).

Last but not least, if you think my language is too harsh, I appologize for that. I did not have my education in an English-speaking country. The Germans are known to be crude :)
Wassalamu alaikum
 

saif

Junior Member
From Allah we are and to Him is our return.

I can understand why the leaders of the Muslim nations if there is any left have cried,marched with their disbelieving friends and why they felt so much sympathy for people who intentionally,willingly and proudly mocked the prophet(slal'Lahu caleyhi wasal'lam) and referred them as innocents yet when they never did so or with little effects when thousands of Muslims get killed and slaughtered?it's because of their love for the Dunya they did so.

Assalamu alaikum
Since you were so diappointed by the muslim politicians, I thought I should share this good news with you:

NA adopts resolution against blasphemous Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Mateen Haider

Khwaja Saad Rafique - APP/File
ISLAMABAD: The Parliament on Thursday unanimously adopted a resolution tabled against blasphemous caricatures published in French weekly satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.
The Federal Minister for Railways Khawaja Saad Rafique tabled the resolution and read it out in the National Assembly.
The resolution called upon the international community including Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) and the European Union (EU) to take action against publishing such material.
"These cartoons are a conspiracy to create misunderstanding among civilisations," the resolution reads.
The House maintained that such moves by Charlie Hebdo are against freedom of expression, and said "ridiculous religious material is condemnable".
Last week, the magazine's offices in Paris were attacked by gunmen, killing 12 people in cold blood in the worst attack in France in decades.

Victims included four prominent cartoonists, among them the editor-in-chief, Stephane Charbonnier, who had lived under police protection for years after receiving death threats.
The satirical newspaper gained notoriety in Feb 2006 when it reprinted sacrilegious cartoons that had originally appeared in Danish daily Jyllands-Posten. The cartoons set off a wave of violence in the Middle East which claimed 50 lives.
Its offices were fire-bombed in Nov 2011 when it published an objectionable sketch.
Despite being taken to court under anti-racism laws, the weekly continued to publish controversial cartoons.
While last week's attack sparked global outrage, dozens of people in Peshawar paid tribute Tuesday to the brothers who carried out the murders.

On the other hand, Pakistan Foreign Office (FO) condemned the shooting last week. The FO spokesperson Tasneem Aslam, said in a statement that Pakistan deplores all forms of terrorism and extends condolences to the government of France and its citizens for the loss of life.
Aslam said that Pakistan's stance over blasphemous cartoons is very clear. While strongly condemning the attack, she added that Pakistan in the past had moved a resolution in the United Nations and the world needs to get out of Islamophobia.
Aslam further said, "we are confident that the international community will persist in standing firm against terrorism and that the culprits behind terrorist activities will be brought to justice."

Source: http://www.dawn.com/news/1157185/na-adopts-resolution-against-blasphemous-charlie-hebdo-cartoons
 

Abu Juwairiya

Junior Member
Assalamu alaikum
Since you were so diappointed by the muslim politicians, I thought I should share this good news with you:

NA adopts resolution against blasphemous Charlie Hebdo cartoons
Mateen Haider

Khwaja Saad Rafique - APP/File
ISLAMABAD: The Parliament on Thursday unanimously adopted a resolution tabled against blasphemous caricatures published in French weekly satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.
The Federal Minister for Railways Khawaja Saad Rafique tabled the resolution and read it out in the National Assembly.
The resolution called upon the international community including Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) and the European Union (EU) to take action against publishing such material.
"These cartoons are a conspiracy to create misunderstanding among civilisations," the resolution reads.
The House maintained that such moves by Charlie Hebdo are against freedom of expression, and said "ridiculous religious material is condemnable".
Last week, the magazine's offices in Paris were attacked by gunmen, killing 12 people in cold blood in the worst attack in France in decades.

Victims included four prominent cartoonists, among them the editor-in-chief, Stephane Charbonnier, who had lived under police protection for years after receiving death threats.
The satirical newspaper gained notoriety in Feb 2006 when it reprinted sacrilegious cartoons that had originally appeared in Danish daily Jyllands-Posten. The cartoons set off a wave of violence in the Middle East which claimed 50 lives.
Its offices were fire-bombed in Nov 2011 when it published an objectionable sketch.
Despite being taken to court under anti-racism laws, the weekly continued to publish controversial cartoons.
While last week's attack sparked global outrage, dozens of people in Peshawar paid tribute Tuesday to the brothers who carried out the murders.

On the other hand, Pakistan Foreign Office (FO) condemned the shooting last week. The FO spokesperson Tasneem Aslam, said in a statement that Pakistan deplores all forms of terrorism and extends condolences to the government of France and its citizens for the loss of life.
Aslam said that Pakistan's stance over blasphemous cartoons is very clear. While strongly condemning the attack, she added that Pakistan in the past had moved a resolution in the United Nations and the world needs to get out of Islamophobia.
Aslam further said, "we are confident that the international community will persist in standing firm against terrorism and that the culprits behind terrorist activities will be brought to justice."

Source: http://www.dawn.com/news/1157185/na-adopts-resolution-against-blasphemous-charlie-hebdo-cartoons

Assalammu Alaikum Brother Saif and Jazakallah Khayrun for sharing the above article with us. I hope Brother cabdixakim will forgive my intrusion in replying when this post was originally and remains a message for him, but my defence for doing so is as follows-

The resolution is pathetic!! It would have been better not to issue it in the first place. It shows a lack of understanding on the persona, the spiritual significance, the nobility and dignity of the Prophet as the greatest human being in the universe and the official lawgiver entrusted by Allah to carry, convey and uphold His Religion for all time. If we have true love of the Prophet in our hearts, we should and would respond as if the magazine had drew naked pictures of our parents, especially our mothers or for that matter ourselves, for the whole world to see, instead of the Prophet Muhammad. You see Allah tells us that He does not need us to defend the Prophet (SAW), but we need to defend him for ourselves and to show that we truly love him.

If Pakistan is truly an 'Islamic' country, as it says it is and claims to be, its response should be more than just a resolution, but to do a lot more. This includes-

1. To cut off relations with France and keep diplomatic channels closed until action is taken against the offending parties and that those responsible apologise
2. To warn all countries it will do the same if their newspapers and magazines do the same
3. To boycott French products
4. To issue guidelines for the people on what Islam says to Muslims on how to react when something like this happens (which is not dictated from the US and Western countries)
5. To enact legislation that will punish Non Muslim governments that choose to allow the 'free press' in the their countries when things like this continue happening with regularity
6. To impose severe sanctions on international organisations that choose to or speak for things like this in Pakistan itself, and if necessary to ban them completely if they don't listen

I will conclude Pakistan needs to show it loves the Prophet (SAW) more than it loves Muhammad Ali Jinnah and the Creators of Pakistan, most of whom were secular, but receive almost divine honour nonetheless from the constitution and the government in general. I wanted to add more actions of necessity to the above list, but due to several issues I will not discuss here, I will stop here.

I apologise for the anger in my words, but I am passionate about defending the Prophet (SAW), his reputation, his image, his legacy, his sincerity and his honour.
 

hopeeternal

Junior Member
Different Values in this world
In France there is a huge value laid on human life,, 17 were killed And the world stood up for them


In Syria 200000 at least have been killed ,,,where are the Arabs standing for them
 

Um Ibrahim

Alhamdulilah :)
The replies on this post are a lot to all go through so I have not read each and every post. My question to u all is, are you all aware that some are saying that this whole attack was a setup against Muslims? That it was not Muslims who even did it but people who were actually hired to do it and blame it on Muslims. If it was really done by Muslims, it's awful and quite confusing. But I don't really know exactly what to believe. It could very well all be a set up.
 

saif

Junior Member
The replies on this post are a lot to all go through so I have not read each and every post. My question to u all is, are you all aware that some are saying that this whole attack was a setup against Muslims? That it was not Muslims who even did it but people who were actually hired to do it and blame it on Muslims. If it was really done by Muslims, it's awful and quite confusing. But I don't really know exactly what to believe. It could very well all be a set up.

Dear sister,
I cannot rule out the possibility of a conspiracy. However, I would have given it a serious thought, if I could see a consensus among muslims, that what they (killers) have done is wrong. Instead, I see a sizable minority, which directly or indrectly supports the "lesson" taught to them (cartoonists).
 
Top