Did Jesus really say he would rise from the dead?

[BigAk]

I've come across a red letter bible and found that Jesus (pbu) is claiming he'd rise from the dead on the third day, and that remission of sins is to be in his name????

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48And ye are witnesses of these things.

49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24:46-49

Given that Shaikh Deedat and Zakir Naik have disproved the crucifixion using the bible itself, how can one reason with a christian when he presents these red letter uttered by Jesus (pbu) in the bible??

.

 

[ShyHijabi]

Salaam,

The Christian bible has been altered and edited so that it is unrecognizable to the injeel. I could take the Constitution of America and write, "Sarah will die and raise herself from the dead in 3 days" but it will not make the written words true. Furthermore Jesus (pbuh) would not refer to himself as the "Christ" as this term did not even exist then. So why would he utter the word "Christ?"

 

[BigAk]

:salam2:

Christ is only a translation. I'm sure Jesus (PBU) did not utter this paritcular word. It's only a translation to Messiah.

"The word "Christ" is derived from the Hebrew word Messiah, Arabic Maseeh. Root word masaha, meaning "to rub", "to massage", "to anoint". Priests and kings were anointed when being consecrated to their offices. But in its translated Grecian form, "Christ" seems unique: befitting Jesus only." (Shaikh Deedat)

It's still a hard case to reason with the christian about the invalidity of the crucifixion when they present the above red-letter statements uttered by Jesus(pbu). Hence; my thread here.

.

 

[Zafran]

salaam

are they the words of Isa (pbuh) or are they the words of Luke? (rhetorical question). How can we trust it.

 

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

i love the quran. i love everything about it. one thing that i love about it is that it speaks to us. it's revelation of course was revealed to the prophet , but we as believers are always addressed. " o ye who believe " or " say " etc.
there are no punches being pulled in it's revelation. with the bible, it's just a story being told, we can't tell the source of inspiration, whereas the quran tells us, i repeat the quran tells us from who these words are coming from. the quran was revealed in real time. i could just go on and on. the bible says what it says but you have to trust the writer that such and such a person actually said something. the prophet was a walking quran. this quran was revealed without confusion that's why there isn't a king james version, NIV, douay rheims version of the quran. can you imagine an imam saying the prophet was a prophet, and another imam was saying that he wasn't, and both imams were saying that they're muslims? that's what's going on in the churches. you have pastors and priests saying jesus is lord and the next church is saying that he's only god's son :astag: . catholic and evangelicals can't even agree to how many books of the bible there should be. how many muslims are saying that there are 119 surah in the quran instead of 114?

the truth is that ALLAH SWT made the quran as the most perfect of books and by his will has made free from being corrupted.

 

[BigAk]

:salam2:

i love the quran. i love everything about it. one thing that i love about it is that it speaks to us. it's revelation of course was revealed to the prophet , but we as believers are always addressed. " o ye who believe " or " say " etc.
there are no punches being pulled in it's revelation. with the bible, it's just a story being told, we can't tell the source of inspiration, whereas the quran tells us, i repeat the quran tells us from who these words are coming from. the quran was revealed in real time. i could just go on and on. the bible says what it says but you have to trust the writer that such and such a person actually said something. the prophet was a walking quran. this quran was revealed without confusion that's why there isn't a king james version, NIV, douay rheims version of the quran. can you imagine an imam saying the prophet was a prophet, and another imam was saying that he wasn't, and both imams were saying that they're muslims? that's what's going on in the churches. you have pastors and priests saying jesus is lord and the next church is saying that he's only god's son :astag: . catholic and evangelicals can't even agree to how many books of the bible there should be. how many muslims are saying that there are 119 surah in the quran instead of 114?

the truth is that ALLAH SWT made the quran as the most perfect of books and by his will has made free from being corrupted.

Yes... Your argument is very valid if you're a muslim (I am alhamdu'lil' Lah) .. I know all of the above... This is not why I'm posting this thread though.. There's no issue from a muslim point of view.. But a christian does not believe in the Quran. My thread here is to ask how to reason with a christian when he throws at you the above?? Trouble is that; despite the fact that all christians acknowledge that the bible has many versions, they all have the same verses in red above... And this is why I'm posting this thread. See what I mean??

.

 

[AleahKoto]

Just Count...

Count the days, Friday night to Saturday night, 1 day, Saturday to Sunday morning 1/2 day.

1 1/2 days does not equal 3 days. So, either Jesus (pbuh) was lying-which we know he wasn't-or the truth was distorted-which we know it has been.

They will often point to the story Jesus talks about Jonah (pbut). The story is NOT the 3 days, but the miracle that both survived and were alive.

 

[abu'muhammad]

:salam2:

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35) - Qur'an

Qur'an mentions jesus (Isa Alayhis salato wassalam) don't know when he will be raised again.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65) - Qur'an

49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117). Qur'an

 

[nobbyv]

I've come across a red letter bible and found that Jesus (pbu) is claiming he'd rise from the dead on the third day, and that remission of sins is to be in his name????

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-49

Dear BigAK,
Assalamualaikum...

Sometimes, it gets a bit difficult to argue about the Crucifixtion with respect to the verses from the bible - Even though Sheikh Deedat and Zakir were able to quote some verses to prove the crucifixtion wrong; there are other verses from the bible to actually support this event!! So, rather than arguing with verses from the bible - I use a slightly different approach:

Why don't you put the question to the Christian? - Ask the Christian,

1) Why does an ALL Merciful, Compassionate & Forgiving GOD require a sacrifice of an innocent human to forgive the sins of mankind?

2) Why does Jesus (pbuh) supposedly teach that he has come to die for mankinds sins when the BIBLE ITSELF contradicts this (Ezekiel 18)?

I have never found a satisfactory answer for these questions from the Christian brothers.

Many a times, we forget that Christianity is a 2000 year old religion & the Bible is their cornerstone. Christians can come up with many proofs and evidences from the bible - So, rather we should concentrate on the actual basics and fundamentals.

I hope this helps.
Walaikum assalam

 

[cmelbouzaidi]

:salam2:



"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35) - Qur'an

Qur'an mentions jesus (Isa Alayhis salato wassalam) don't know when he will be raised again.



"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65) - Qur'an



"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117). Qur'an

:salam2:

Jazak Allahu Khair, brother asifvora

 

[wanderer]

I can't believe that I took that as "the gospel truth" all these years. At most it was 1 full day since we are taught that Jesus rose Sunday morning and was crucified Friday night.

 

[BigAk]

I can't believe that I took that as "the gospel truth" all these years. At most it was 1 full day since we are taught that Jesus rose Sunday morning and was crucified Friday night.

Correct.. However, you'll find christians argue to consider part of a day as a full day; so they come up with Friday, Sat, and Sunday which makes three days. It's their effort to fit in the equation and validate the prophecy.

wanderer; I am glad that you'd arrived at the truth. Al hamdu lil' Lah. Was it hard for you to accept the reality of things???

.

 

[BigAk]

Dear BigAK,
Assalamualaikum...

Sometimes, it gets a bit difficult to argue about the Crucifixtion with respect to the verses from the bible - Even though Sheikh Deedat and Zakir were able to quote some verses to prove the crucifixtion wrong; there are other verses from the bible to actually support this event!! So, rather than arguing with verses from the bible - I use a slightly different approach:

Why don't you put the question to the Christian? - Ask the Christian,

1) Why does an ALL Merciful, Compassionate & Forgiving GOD require a sacrifice of an innocent human to forgive the sins of mankind?

2) Why does Jesus (pbuh) supposedly teach that he has come to die for mankinds sins when the BIBLE ITSELF contradicts this (Ezekiel 18)?I have never found a satisfactory answer for these questions from the Christian brothers.

Many a times, we forget that Christianity is a 2000 year old religion & the Bible is their cornerstone. Christians can come up with many proofs and evidences from the bible - So, rather we should concentrate on the actual basics and fundamentals.

I hope this helps.
Walaikum assalam

nobbyv.. Yes... I realize that there are many angles to approach the issue with the christian.. There's also the angle of proving that Jesus(pbu) never claimed divinity which will undermine the crucifixion greatly by crucifying a mere "man" ... I'm just trying to get help in case they present this particular angle of red letters "supposedly" uttered by Jesus himself.

Is everything in red really uttered by Jesus(pbu) I wonder??? Can we disprove that angle??

BTW.. Thank you for pointing out EZ 18.. I need to look it up.
.

 

[Sabra]

Salaam,

You know I have heard this statement before, that the red letter bible
is supposed to be uttered by Jesus(pbuh) himself. I don't believe this
though as we know the entire bible has been changed over the years.
These statements from the red letter bible, do not sound to me as
Jesus(pbuh) talking. It again sounds as someone relating the statement.

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Should it not say: and I say unto them, and thus it behooved thy to suffer, if Jesus(pbuh) was speaking himself.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Why would it say here: and remission of sins should be preached in his name, again if Jesus(pbuh) was speaking himself.
What it is saying here: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His; (Allah(swt)) name among
all nations, if Jesus(pbuh) is the one talking.

Salaam Sabra

 

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

every time i see this particular thread, it reminds me of a verse in the quran, i believe it's in surah al-baqarah where it says " the jews and christian argue with each other but both use the same book. " i don't think i quoted it 100% accurate but it did go according to those lines.

 

[hellbraker]

I've come across a red letter bible and found that Jesus (pbu) is claiming he'd rise from the dead on the third day, and that remission of sins is to be in his name????

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48And ye are witnesses of these things.

49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24:46-49

Given that Shaikh Deedat and Zakir Naik have disproved the crucifixion using the bible itself, how can one reason with a christian when he presents these red letter uttered by Jesus (pbu) in the bible??

.

Here Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:2..but then u have to ask urself a question.What was Jesus saying in Luke 23:43?
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus said to one of the criminals that he will be with him today.What did he mean?

 

[BigAk]

Salaam,

You know I have heard this statement before, that the red letter bible
is supposed to be uttered by Jesus(pbuh) himself. I don't believe this
though as we know the entire bible has been changed over the years.
These statements from the red letter bible, do not sound to me as
Jesus(pbuh) talking. It again sounds as someone relating the statement.

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Should it not say: and I say unto them, and thus it behooved thy to suffer, if Jesus(pbuh) was speaking himself.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Why would it say here: and remission of sins should be preached in his name, again if Jesus(pbuh) was speaking himself.
What it is saying here: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His; (Allah(swt)) name among
all nations, if Jesus(pbuh) is the one talking.

Salaam Sabra

Very good points and arguments.. Thank you Sabra..

.

 

[BigAk]

Here Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:2..but then u have to ask urself a question.What was Jesus saying in Luke 23:43?
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus said to one of the criminals that he will be with him today.What did he mean?

I'm not sure hellbraker... Would you please expand on this and explain if you know something??? Thank you..
.

 

[BigAk]

Here Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:2..but then u have to ask urself a question.What was Jesus saying in Luke 23:43?
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus said to one of the criminals that he will be with him today.What did he mean?

Oh... I get it... You're implying by today meaning Friday (day of crucifixion), then Saturday make 2 days... then Sunday is the third day??

Is that what you mean??

.

 

[BigAk]

Here Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:2..but then u have to ask urself a question.What was Jesus saying in Luke 23:43?
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus said to one of the criminals that he will be with him today.What did he mean?

But how do you explain the three nights as in the sign of Jonah ?? If the christian insists of counting part of the day as a full day, one still can't come up with three nights..

Friday night is 1
Saturday night is 1
Total 2 nights.

So at the most the christian can ultimately come up with 3 days and two nights if considering the time factor in the sign of Jonah.
.
.