Evolution? Creation? or Both

mhamzah

Junior Member
:salam2:

Quran Teaches Both!

It says, "Allah is - Al Khaliq" (The Creator)
It also says, "Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)


Yusuf Ali: He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (59:24)

Continued....

http://www.scienceislam.com/evolution_creation.php

Salam Alakyum
 

~Ali_

Fixing da foundation
Assalamualaikum brother, I think that when most people say
"Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)

I think it means in the womb? how we go from stage to stage, Ive also heard Yusuf Estes go on about "Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)
(isnt that site actually related to islam tomorow?)

and the other thing on the site "big bang busted" - hasnt that already been proven? or close-to ? and its in the Qur'an also is it not?



Walaikumasalam.
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
Assalamualaikum brother, I think that when most people say
"Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)

I think it means in the womb? how we go from stage to stage,


59:23 - Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.

59:24 - He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.


There is only one place in the Quran (59:24) that the word Al-Bari appears and there is no reference of womb in this verse. Infact the last two verse of Surah Al Hasgr describes various attributes of Allah. I don't think so its in reference to the womb (I have checked two tafsir they dont say anything of that sort) but than I might be missing something.


Ive also heard Yusuf Estes go on about "Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)
(isnt that site actually related to islam tomorow?)


Yes it is related.

and the other thing on the site "big bang busted" - hasnt that already been proven? or close-to ? and its in the Qur'an also is it not?

Oh, don't go by the title.

Yes the universally accepted theory of 'the origin of the universe' is the Big Bang Theory. It maintains that at one time Heaven and the earth was one piece.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (21:30)

:wasalam:
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
Assalamualaikum brother, I think there has been another thread about this already
(or something similar)
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46662

???

Walaikumasalam

Actually, the verb to create is used much like Khalaqa is used in Arabic. The most common usage is to create from nothing, as in:

أَفَمَنْ يَخْلُقُ كَمَنْ لا يَخْلُقُ أَفَلا تَذَكَّرُونَ (١٧
"Is one who creates like one who does not? Do ye not think back?" (16:17)

But Khalaqa can also be used to mean to create from something, i.e., evolve or develop, such as in 23:12-14,

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الإنْسَانَ مِنْ سُلالَةٍ مِنْ طِينٍ (١٢) ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَاهُ نُطْفَةً فِي قَرَارٍ مَكِينٍ (١٣) ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا النُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنْشَأْنَاهُ خَلْقًا آخَرَ فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ (١٤

"And We created the human out of an extract of clay. {12}
Then We made him a germ in a safe depository. {13}
Then We created [from] the germ a clot, created [from] the clot a morsel, created [from] the morsel bones, clothed the bones with flesh, and then We initiated him [as] another creation. So blessed be God, the best of creators! {14}"

Al-Baari, on the other hand, only means the one who creates from nothing and there's no word in English that I know of that directly corresponds to it. That's why innocence is Al-Baraa'a in Arabic, because there's nothing before it ;)


:salam2:

Jazakallah khair

:wasalam:
 

miq1

Junior Member
Praise be to Allah (The Glorified and Exalted).

The Muslim must be careful when he speaks about Allah (The Exalted) and His religion. It is not possible to attribute anything to Islam that has not been directly stated in the Qur'an or on the lips of the final Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). It is best to say Allah Knows best.

Now, one must make a distinction between two forms of evolution: micro and macroevolution. Microevolution is change within a species and is true. Such as the differences among the human beings. Now, as for macroevolution, which means changing from one species to another. Such as a species of gorilla giving origination to the race of man, then this concept is totally false.

And Allah (The Glorified and Exalted) Knows Best.
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
Wa Iyaak, brother.

You are right when you say that both creation and evolution are supported in Islam. Most people misunderstand, or misrepresent evolution. The evolutionist who totally reject creation are wrong in their unfounded assumption that everything came info being through evolution. The creationist who totally reject evolution are wrong in their blanket assertion that everything came into being through creation, by which they mean bringing something out of nothing.

The fact of the matter, IMHO, is that evolution is simply another one of the natural laws that God created. Some beings have evolved and others were directly created. Whether directly or indirectly a being came into this world, they all were created by God because God is the creator of the laws of evolution and the one who set them in motion!

Evolution does not mean something sprung out of nothing as most opponents of evolution base their opposition. It means that changes occur to an existing being that transform it to another being. We see evidence of that with caterpillars evolving into butterflies in a matter of weeks! But just because we cannot see the guide, we cannot say that these changes occur without guidance. That's simply absurd because the changes that turn a fertilized egg into a baby are always the same, take place in the same order and take pretty much the same amount of time for millions of babies that are born everyday. Order doesn't happen without guidance. If the guidance is genetic instructions in each chromosome, who wrote them there?

And as I mentioned in my previous post, creation does not necessarily mean bringing something out of nothing, though it can also mean that. One of the creatures that came into being by direct creation is man! In the holy Quran, God asks Satan, "What prevented you to prostrate to what I created with my hands?" (38:75) Thus, to say that man evolved from apes is not only a blasphemy but it's also not backed by science, which to date has failed to find that "missing link." Likewise, the many examples in nature that back up evolution cannot be rejected because God is the force behind their evolution. He chose to bring them into being by means of evolution rather than direct creation. He can do both and He can do whatever He wills!

Thus, creation and evolution can co-exist in harmony, LOL.


:salam2:

Jazakallah khair,

Actually I read Yusuf Estes article about an year and a half back, but I haven't read much on this issue after that. Just came across this article the other day and thought of doing some research on what does Islam has to say about evoultion (if anything).

:wasalam:
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
Praise be to Allah (The Glorified and Exalted).

The Muslim must be careful when he speaks about Allah (The Exalted) and His religion. It is not possible to attribute anything to Islam that has not been directly stated in the Qur'an or on the lips of the final Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). It is best to say Allah Knows best.

Now, one must make a distinction between two forms of evolution: micro and macroevolution. Microevolution is change within a species and is true. Such as the differences among the human beings. Now, as for macroevolution, which means changing from one species to another. Such as a species of gorilla giving origination to the race of man, then this concept is totally false.

And Allah (The Glorified and Exalted) Knows Best.

:salam2:

Jazakallah Khair for your reply,

:wasalam:
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
:salam2:
ok i didn't want to reply but i feel like i shud , im doing honor in Evolution, and its weird that whenever evolution is spoken off ppl start comparing Monkeys to Humans thats not what evolution is please try to get it right thats not evolution.

Evolution is something evolving to better better fit the environment through natural selection there are other factors but natural selection is the most important one, and u cant deny that thats true.

NOw dont jump in and say OH im saying bacteria evolved into an elephant ok, natural selection is important it happens everywhere,

when u take a anti-biotic not all the bacteria are killed Natural selection takes place and some bacteria that are resistant to the anti-biotic are left others are killed THATS NATURAL SELECTION.
So now the disease that we started with has Evolved due to natural selection, all the remaining bacteria will be reproduced by those bacteria that survived thru natural selection .

About the HUMANS to APE, please please please make urself clear know what your talking about otherwise the Atheists that believe apes came from human will rip you apart.
Human and monkey DNA sequences are extremely similar i think 96-98% i cant remember the exact percentage but somewhere around there , SO the scientist made a HYPOTHESIS plz know the difference they have Hypothesized that apes created the human lineage, BUT all the scientist ( not the idiot ones) are aware that genes play around 60% part in the behavior of the organic on average, environment plays an important imporatnt role, NO scientist can explain how the intelligent life came into being they are all hypothesis alot of organisms have bigger brains than us, it is Allah (swt) who created Adam and we are all his progeny.

Now if we are clear on that about the evolution of one organism, giving rise to the other organisms, OK lets make this this clear Quran is really implicit on that , We cant deny Evolution based on that cuz Quran also says in the same verses

21:30 we have created every living thing from water.

THat is what the evolutionist are saying everything started in water, and there are also part in the Quran where Allah (swt) tells us that he send plants and other things first to the land so they could provide nutrients (someone correct me or provide referance plz) thats wat the evolutionist are saying ..

Please realize alot of the evolution is based on theories, no one knows the reality but Allah (swt) but i dont seem to have any problem with the evolutionist if they say things worked that way ( except the human part) then wats wrong, Allah (swt) still controlled everything.
You know 99.9% of the times a mutation is fatal it kills the organism that 0.01% its not Well who made that happen!!??
Allah (swt) is the evolver, he is the created , he is the one who has got power over it all.

:p please no -ve remarks , if you have any comment do share but i dont want to get into an arguement like i did in the last thread thats not allowed in islam.
thx :)
 

~Ali_

Fixing da foundation
Assalamualikum,

The idea of humans being evolving from anything (even apes) I dont really like it.

But if you're gonna say that a caterpillar has evolved through so and so stages, I am willing to accept that because THAT IS evolution (of the caterpillar).

But the common EVOLUTION that people talk about is that of a human (inclu. everything), which I do not like, because Allah swt clearly states how Adam (as) was created, no?

Walaikumasalam
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Assalamualikum,

The idea of humans being evolving from anything (even apes) I dont really like it.

But if you're gonna say that a caterpillar has evolved through so and so stages, I am willing to accept that because THAT IS evolution (of the caterpillar).

But the common EVOLUTION that people talk about is that of a human (inclu. everything), which I do not like, because Allah swt clearly states how Adam (as) was created, no?

Walaikumasalam

:salam2:
yes brother Quran speaks about the creation of Adam as a separate creation , so yea there is no evolution there i agree with u
 

ahmed_indian

to Allah we belong
Allah is All-Powerful, He says to a thing 'be' and it is.

He do not need evolution process.

and there are no proofs of evolution. wht we studied in schools was just fake.

the 200 or 300 million years old fossils of animals is just same like today's generation.

www.evolutiondeceit.com
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Allah is All-Powerful, He says to a thing 'be' and it is.

He do not need evolution process.

and there are no proofs of evolution. wht we studied in schools was just fake.

the 200 or 300 million years old fossils of animals is just same like today's generation.

www.evolutiondeceit.com

:salam2:
brother I seriously think, we shoud all focus our time on knowing about quran and sunnah and being better muslims, things that Allah (swt) didn't provide answer in details there is no point argueing.
I would just like to correct u on what i know
There is proof regarding evolution, you can do live experiment.

If you change the food resource of an animal of the same specie u will soon realize after a couple of generations their morphology would change, the animals better be able to obtain food using the new food resource would survive, thats natural selection and that is how evolution occur.
Like i said before, its extremely important for evolution to occur in order for life to exist, if we weren't evolving then the pathogens and parasites that evolve alot faster than us would have killed us by now and viped us off the planet, we are always evolving.

But brother ahmed :) Allah (swt) knows best - I feel like when Allah (swt) didn't tell us in te quran in detail then we shouldn't waste too much of our breathe pondering over it

I hope i didn't offend anyone
:wasalam:
 

Der Fragende

ahlu-sunnah.com
:salam2:

Metamorphosis is, as fas as I know, not seen as evolution, because the impulse to undergo is implemented in the genes.
If problems occur during the metamorphosis, the animal/insect could be damaged or could even die.

:wasalam:
 

Der Fragende

ahlu-sunnah.com
If you change the food resource of an animal of the same specie u will soon realize after a couple of generations their morphology would change, the animals better be able to obtain food using the new food resource would survive, thats natural selection and that is how evolution occur.
Like i said before, its extremely important for evolution to occur in order for life to exist, if we weren't evolving then the pathogens and parasites that evolve alot faster than us would have killed us by now and viped us off the planet, we are always evolving.

:salam2:

When you change the food resources, no DNA information is added.
How can a new species evolve?
If you remove the food resources, the animal changes his eating habits.
But nothing more?
If someone attempts to lose weight and stops eating "special things", he doesn't become stronger etc.
But that's just my opinion.
I am not a scientist, nor do I know many things about scientific topics.

:wasalam:
 

~Ali_

Fixing da foundation
Then you agree with what I wrote in post #9 above, because that's what I said.

Assalamualaikum

Yup! when people usually hear "evolution" they think o hey! monkey to man!

but evolution in its true-er since occurs all around us...it happened to us in the womb no? we gradually evolved from stage to stage.

but if ur going to come up to me and say evolution = monkey to man... then ill probably just feel sorry for you....

and when people hear the word creation = they think poof! everything appeared in a pop in a milli-second....

its the words that are indeed blown up to represent something entirely else :(

Walaikumasalam
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
:salam2:

When you change the food resources, no DNA information is added.
How can a new species evolve?
If you remove the food resources, the animal changes his eating habits.
But nothing more?
If someone attempts to lose weight and stops eating "special things", he doesn't become stronger etc.
But that's just my opinion.
I am not a scientist, nor do I know many things about scientific topics.

:wasalam:

:salam2:
no brother thats wat i was trying to explain, no DNA is added thats natural selection, when u change food resource example in some flies they have on avg 5 cm long mouth to suck the nectar off a specific flower, if u take away the flower and provide another flower whos nectar is located 7 cm below then all the individuals in the population with below 7 cm will die and only some individuals that have a mouth piece of more than 7 cm will survive, so naturally those individuals will be selection, these variations are caused by different genetic information in individuals, now only the gene of 7cm individuals are being passed on to the next progeny so the population evolves to have 7 cm mouth piece anyone having a smaller one will die cuz it wont be able to obtain food.

I hope i made sense.
 
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