Help against Shi'ite beliefs - Debate

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Dr.Khan

Junior Member
:salam2:

This is what the person wrote when i reminded him that Ali RA named his children after the first three Khalifa.

http://rayatmohammed.blogspot.com/2...-alis-sons.html

First of all its not the names that make you bad its the character. If Imam Ali named someone Abu bakr, Umar, Usman it does mean its because of the meaning not to refer to them.

In your sunni books is stated:

Sahih Muslim:
“So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life.

"I am pleased with those with whom Fatema is pleased, and Allah is pleased with those with whom I am pleased. I am angry with those with whom Fatema is angry, and Allah is angry with those with whom I am angry."

Figure out what happens who does make Allah angry.

Just a couple of things that are in yours books that u didnt even knew about.

I will be asking for information from you guys.. support needed!
 
D

Dr.Khan

Junior Member
This is what i replied with..

It is narrated on the authority of Urwa b. Zubair who narrated from A'isha that she informed him that Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), sent someone to Abu Bakr to demand from him her share of the legacy left by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from what Allah had bestowed upon him at Medina and Fadak and what was left from one-fifth of the income (annually received) from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." The household of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) will live on the income from these properties, but, by Allah, I will not change the charity of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from the condition in which it was in his own time. I will do the same with it as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upun him) himself used to do. So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life. (Sahih Muslim: Book 19: Hadith 4352)

Now if Ali RA also upset Fatema too - then this means that according to your own beliefs, your first and last rightly guided calipha upset the daughter of the prophet, consequently upsetting the prophet, consequently upsetting Allah - and these are the people you revere so much!

The Shia say that Fatima was angry at Abu Bakr in the incident of Fadak, but what about their own narrations that say that she was also angry at Ali at the same time? We read the following, as recorded in Al-Tusi's 'Amali' and also Al-Majlisis Haqqul
Yaqeen :

When Fatima asked for Fadak from Abu Bakr and he refused to give it to her, she returned full of anger that could not be described and she was sick; and she was angry with Ali because he refused to help her.
( Al-Majlisis Haqqul Yaqeen pg. 203-204, also recorded in Al-Tusis Amali p.295)

I got this from another sunni vs shia forum thread
 
M

muslimda3ee

brother
:salam2:

you need to know that the shia, are very skillful in debating. They learn it from when they are kids they also talk a lot to each other that's how they pick up on the language. Many study Arabic at a high level, but they use their own ideas and rulings.

just wanted to point that out to you.

may Allah give you and all of us more knowledge.

:wasalam:
 
B

believer4life

soul searching...
:salam2:
i have many shiia friends and i have no idea how to break it down for them that there is more than one chalifa's (< i dont know how to spell it) but the thing is wallahi they are so firm in their belief, that whatever anyone says does not matter. i really respect how firm and strict they are when it comes to their religion, but i just wish i could convince my friends!
 
FreedomFighter

FreedomFighter

Junior Member
:wasalam:

This should help. The website seems down at the moment.

“When Fatima became ill, Abu Bakr came to her and asked for permission to enter. So Ali said, ‘O Fatima, this is Abu Bakr asking for permission to enter.’ She answerd, ‘Do you want me to give him permission?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ So she allowed him (to enter), and he came in seeking her pleasure, so he told her: ‘By Allah, I only left my home and property and my family seeking the pleasure of Allah and His Messenger and you, O Ahlel Bayt.’ So he talked to her until she was pleased with him.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi)

This Hadith is narrated by Bayhaqi in al Sunan al Kubra (6:300-301) and Dala’il al-Nubuwwa (7:273-281) who said: “It is narrated with a good (hasan) chain.” Muhibb al Din al-Tabari cited it in al Riyad Al Nadira (2:96-97 #534) and Dhahabi in the Siyar (Ibid). Ibn Kathir states it as Sahih in his Al Bidayah and Ibn Hajar in his Fath Al Bari.

How do we reconcile this Hadith with the Hadith narrated in Sahih Bukhari? This is a commonly used Hadith by the Shia propagandist:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 325:
Narrated by Aisha:

After the death of Allah’s Apostle, Fatima–the daughter of Allah’s Apostle–asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give to her what was her share of inheritance from what Allah’s Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Our property will not be inherited; whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity).” Fatima, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude until she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah’s Apostle.”

Both this Hadith and the Hadith stated earlier in Bayhaqi have been deemed to be authentic narrations by the Hadith scholars. Therefore, how do we reconcile the two? The explanation is simple: Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) may not have known that Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) had reconciled with Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه). Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) was not present at that moment, so she was unaware of it. This does not mean that the event did not take place. Furthermore–and this point cannot be stressed enough–the Hadith narrated by Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) really means that Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) did not speak to Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) again about the issue of Fadak, not necessarily that she did not speak to him again at all.

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/sahabah/fadak5
 
FreedomFighter

FreedomFighter

Junior Member
You could also use this to prove them wrong.

Let us now examine Sunni Hadith on the topic of Prophets and inheritance. Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said:

“We do not leave inheritance. What we leave behind is charity.” (Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Jihad was-Siyar, no. 49)

“We, the Prophets, do not leave heirs.” (Musnad Ahmad, vol. 2 p. 462)

This is confirmed in Shia Hadith as well. Let us examine Shia Hadith in Al-Kafi, the most reliable of the four Shia books of Hadith, on the same matter:

“The Prophets did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance, but they left knowledge.” (al-Kafi, vol. 1 p. 42)

This Shia Hadith in Al-Kafi has two separate narrations, and is considered Sahih by the Shia. The authenticity is confirmed by Ayatollah Khomeini, who used this Hadith to prove his claim of Wilayah al-Faqih. Khomeini said about the Hadith:

“The narrators of this tradition are all reliable and trustworthy. The father of ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim [namely Ibrahim ibn Hashim] is not only reliable, [but in fact] he is one of the most reliable and trustworthy narrators.”

(source: Khomeini, al-Hukumat al-Islamiyyah, p. 133, published by Markaz Baqiyyat Allah al-A’zam, Beirut)

So we wonder why this Hadith is reliable enough to prove Wilayah al-Faqih, but suddenly it is not used by the Shia to defend Abu Bakr’s (رضّى الله عنه) position?

Do we not then see that the statement made by Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) about Prophets not giving inheritance is the same statement that was made by Imam Sadiq (رضّى الله عنه) whom the Shia consider to be infallible? Allamah Al-Majlisi declared that the Hadith “do[es] not fall short of being Sahih.” And Ayatollah Khomeini considered it to be so Sahih that he used it to prove his Wilayah al-Faqih. If Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) is to be considered a liar for quoting this Hadith, then would the Shia also accept that Imam Sadiq (رضّى الله عنه), Allamah Majlisi, and Ayatollah Khomeini are also liars by same logic?
 
MahyarEL-Prince

MahyarEL-Prince

Studying Islam...
ayatollah khomeini wrote in his book that he and the shia imams (ayatollahs) have the power of cause and effect, he also mentioned that they choose when they die.. I know that sounds silly but it's in the book, im from Iran.
Now Shias beleive that the ayotollah is 1 step in front of prophets and if not 1 step then pretty damn near par to them, while sunnis never even think of anything above the sahabas! Honestly if you think Abu bakr has any wrongs then you have no faith in Muhammad (saws) judgement of best friends in islam. Im sure Allah (swt) would not let a kaffer take over islam right after the prophet died.... btw Shia hadiths are fabricated aswell.... and believe me i am iranian i hear more shia talk then a lot of people, IT is in there religion to decieve people, it's not haram but they are not allowed to decieve eachother... don't beleive me? get really close to a shia and ask him if this is true? like it's a strategy they use believe me... may Allah keep my brothers straight, and my brothers are those who follow the lifestyle of Muhammad Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhis wa salam.
 
T

TheAuthenticBase

Assalaamu 'alaykum!
Dr.Khan said:
:salam2:

This is what the person wrote when i reminded him that Ali RA named his children after the first three Khalifa.

http://rayatmohammed.blogspot.com/2...-alis-sons.html

First of all its not the names that make you bad its the character. If Imam Ali named someone Abu bakr, Umar, Usman it does mean its because of the meaning not to refer to them.

In your sunni books is stated:

Sahih Muslim:
“So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life.

"I am pleased with those with whom Fatema is pleased, and Allah is pleased with those with whom I am pleased. I am angry with those with whom Fatema is angry, and Allah is angry with those with whom I am angry."

Figure out what happens who does make Allah angry.

Just a couple of things that are in yours books that u didnt even knew about.

I will be asking for information from you guys.. support needed!
Click to expand...

assalaam o alaykum,

firstly, dont argue with shias....

secondly, gain knowledge before arguing with anyone...

thirdly, shjias r deviant...

fourthly, they practise tuqiya (which means concealing your beliefs)...

below are 3 link evryone must visit:

1) http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/deviants-heretics

2) http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/category/sects-groups/shiasm-exposed/

3) ok i need 2 find this one...

ill start a''shiaism exposed'' thread
 
D

Dr.Khan

Junior Member
Jazakallah for the info everyone

This book is amazing to download.

Fundamental Shi'ite Beliefs

By Abdullah ibn Muhammad As-Salafi. An important book shows the corrupt belief of Shi’ites. The author said in the introduction, “I wrote this book for a number of reasons including: (1) The increased efforts of the Shi’ites to spread their ideology in the Muslim world. (2) The danger of this deviant sect poses on Islam. (3) The ignorance of many Muslims about the danger of this deviant sect. (4) The corrupt Aqeedah (belief system) of the Shi’ites, which includes polytheism, defamation of the Quran and defamation of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah be pleased with them all. (5) Their extreme beliefs in relation to their imams."

HTML: 
http://kalamullah.com/Books/Fundamental_Shiite_Beliefs.pdf
It's from the website kalamullah.com
 
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