IS THE PAKISTANI ARMY SO BAD?

Nayyararsi

Kashmiri Brother
Salaam my dear brothers and sisters.Today i was having a discussion with my friends that whether Kashmir should become completely independent or part of Pakistan.I personally wish Kashmir to merge with Pakistan as Allah says in Quran that hold to rope of Allah strongly and be not divided.But one of my friend who was opposing me said that Pakistan army killed lakhs of Muslims in Bangladesh in 1971 and then i checked in wikipedia where i found this Casualties and losses Mukti Bahini: 10,000KIA, ~4,000 [ 7 ] POWs . ~6,000 KIA and wounded [ 8 ] a few POWs. Civilian death toll : estimated several hundred thousands Bengali civilians...Its my humble and painful request please some knowledgeable person clarify why all this bloodshed happened............I just cant concentrate on anything and i am really disturbed....
 

saifkhan

abd-Allah
salam alaikum

we actually never understood the plotting of the Kuffars. when we fought against the Britishers, we were all the same, but when we won, why they divide us, and also in a improper way, they ignited the fire on that very beginning day. so the battle was sure to took place.

anyways, what has gone, has gone. Allah subhanahu wa ta'la will never ask us about that, coz that is not our account. may Allah forgive us and save us from brother-brother fitnah, and help us to mark the plotting of Kuffars.

and Allah knows the best
JazakAllah khair
wassalam
 

Ibn Uthaymin

Junior member
Saalam

Alot of people did get killed and alot of women raped. Thats why you see some Bangali nationalist are hell bent on hating Pakistanis.
 

sachin4islam

Junior Member
Assalam Alaikum:

Let me start from a Quote from my one of the best friends (Danish Anwar) from Pakistan:
" I want to get out of Pakistan,not only that it would be better to settle in a underdeveloped country like Sri Lanka than living in Pakistan".

Islam seems to be of secondary importance in Pakistan,the primarily the factors of significance,are ethnic origin and language. Indian Muslims those who migrated during partition of India to Pakistan still carry a label of ''Muhajirs" and are broadly unaccepted in mainstream.

I personally feel,creation of Pakistan did not prove fruitful for Indian Muslims of British colony.

And finally Prophet (SAW) said '' An individual can't be a Muslim,until he thinks same for other Muslim,as he thinks for himself".

Muslims in India are more happy than their Pakistani brothers,yes except for few incidences of disasters that they faced in India.
 

dna1987

Muslim Guy
Assalam alaikum.

I don't know about the situation now, but it was definitely really bad and corrupt 40 years ago. However brother, if you are living in Kashmir, then you probably know that the Indian army is really bad too.

May Allah help all the oppressed people and grant them justice. Ameen.

Assalam alaikum.

EDIT: Yes, many Bangali Muslims were killed, and it was almost a racist war by the Punjabi Pakistanis against what they considered an inferior and darker skinned people. Well, that fueled a lot of the hate. West Pakistanis had a minority of the population then (45%) but they took 85% of the resources and left 15% for about 75 million in East Pakistan. When the West lost the elections to the Awami Islamic Party (from the East), they refused to step down, and then started this genocide in Feburary 1971. The massacres continued until the end of the year. The worst part was at the end, after they knew they had lost the war, they tried to find as many University professors, students, doctors, engineers and other educated people and killed them all. Nearly all of these educated people were Muslims. The goal was to set back the new nation as far back as possible since they resisted the oppression and genocide. There are few existing videos from the end of 1971 where Muslim students and teachers were just lined up and shot dead at Dhaka University.

It's sad though, that India still benefitted from this. This separation was sad but inevitable. If you are being massacred and raped, you cannot just sit there and take it - especially when you've not done anything wrong. I don't think a centralized government like will work anyway, and it was not set up that way during the time of Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA). Each state had it's own governnor and/or leader that ruled the local people that way. Today, the United Kingdom is a good example of how four independant countries can still work cohesively as one unit, while each still have their own identity and rights.
 

fatima1994

ƒ3!RY $p!r!T
:salam2:
Owch wid the thread subject and seriously lay off Pakistan for once! havnt u all got better things to disscuss rather sayin bad stuff? Pakistan is a muslim country and its people are ur muslim brothers and sisters. What happend in the past was all cuz ov the evil and perfect plotting ov non muslims and there main goal was to divide us. And they won didnt they? Aint ya'll heard united we stand divided we fall? and heres what we do make them even happy aka blaming eachother and hurting our own muslim brothers or sisters... Pakistan army is bad? well what about right now when many ov our soldiers are patrolling the borders??? May Allah(swt) guide us all.....
and like SERIOUSLY stop being so like against eachother go blame america for a change....
:wasalam:
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
:salam2:

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To the mods: This post is ONLY to INFORM others about what took place in July 2007.

From the video, one can understand that towards the end, Sh. Abdur Rashid Ghazi (RA) was actually thinking about TURNING HIMSELF IN, but the napakistani forces told him (through cellphone), that they will NOT give him "a safe passageway" meaning, that if he were to COME OUT AND TURN HIMSELF IN, they would either SHOOT HIM or ARREST HIM.

Did he die as a Mubtadi' (innovator), a Munafiq (Hypocrite), or a Khariji (one who has a trangressive extremism, due to lack of understanding in Deen)? The picture below will tell you:


imagesCAFS24YP.jpg


When a Shaheed dies, they see their place in Jannah, and because of that, they smile before their soul leaves their body.
 

Ahsen

Junior Member
It's all politics.Pakistani people are not mad.They lack a good leadership.We never had a good leadership after Mohammed Ali Jinnah.It's all politics if one can understand.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
an army is as good as it's commander and that's true for pak army. in 60's and 70's the army was very westernized; heavy drinking, sex and gambling was common place and islam was hardly a priority. yes its true that back then the army killed a lot of benaglis but you must also consider that many of these were indian proxies in Bangladesh (east pakistan back then).

It was only after the debacle of 71 that a commission was formed to find out why the army failed when just a few years earlier they had resisted india. One of the primary reasons they found out was that the soldiers lacked the islamic spirit of jihad thus zia was appointed as the chief of the army by Bhutto. since then the army had a islaamic stance, drinking was banned and a lot of things were changed with regards to protocol.

this situation continued up until musharraf came into power and he introduced the concept of enlightened moderation. Once again the army was westernized and mush basically became an american proxy in Pakistan. During his tenure there were a few rebellions with in the army. A lot of soldiers were against fighting against Muslims and there have been a few uprising.

The current chief is Kiyani, the only army chief in the world who can operate an F-16! He along with the top brass of pak army are inclined toward china instead of Pakistan's worst enemy, and back stabbers UK and US.

But the current situation of pakistan cannot be blamed on others. Mush should have taken a stand instead of being hypocritical. He should have either sided with the US or the taliban but he tried to do a bit of both and ended up doing neither. At the moment, it is a strange situation. The people are happy to see america lose but the government fears a US defeat.

As far as india and pakistan are concerned there is no comparison.

1) in pakistan there is a masjid every other street. Although there only few alhe hadees masjid but still you can pray there.
2) in pakistan, you wont see idols like you see in india. I cant believe how indian muslims can tolerate the widespread idols and idol worshiping. This just confirms their weakness.
3) Muslims (practicing ones) will always have a tough time in a kaafir country; india or any other. This is because islaam is based on pure monotheism and just cannot mix with kufr.
4) sacrificing cows and other animals is problematic in india.
5) halal food is not a problem in pakistan.

The creation of pakistan was justified. It is just one of two nation states created in the name of religion (the other being Israel). What happened afterwards is another story.

The future could be very bloody. The US and NATO have been defeated in Afghanistan and they would want to punish Pakistan. There will probably be another war between India and Pakistan maybe this year or next. However, if Pakistan collapses, i can bet my life that India will follow suit. Pakistan is the buffer between India and Afghanistan. Having defeated Russia, US and NATO in a little over 30 years, there is nothing to stop the afghan Taliban from reaching Delhi in the next 30 years. It has happened before countless times. Some of the greatest muslim warriors in Indian subcontinent have originated from Afghanistan.
 

Nayyararsi

Kashmiri Brother
Assalam Alaikum:

Let me start from a Quote from my one of the best friends (Danish Anwar) from Pakistan:
" I want to get out of Pakistan,not only that it would be better to settle in a underdeveloped country like Sri Lanka than living in Pakistan".

Islam seems to be of secondary importance in Pakistan,the primarily the factors of significance,are ethnic origin and language. Indian Muslims those who migrated during partition of India to Pakistan still carry a label of ''Muhajirs" and are broadly unaccepted in mainstream.

I personally feel,creation of Pakistan did not prove fruitful for Indian Muslims of British colony.

And finally Prophet (SAW) said '' An individual can't be a Muslim,until he thinks same for other Muslim,as he thinks for himself".

Muslims in India are more happy than their Pakistani brothers,yes except for few incidences of disasters that they faced in India.

Brother i seriously disagree with your view that Indian muslims are happy than those living in Pakistan.If in the world dignity of Islam and muslims is safe to any extent anywhere its in Pakistan...In India muslims are living a suppressed life and are always a constant threat of the parties like BJP Shivsena and RSS....The condition of Pakistan this time is bad as the whole world is hell bent upon destroying it as it is the only muslim nation in the world who is the nuclear power...
 

Nayyararsi

Kashmiri Brother
Assalam alaikum.

I don't know about the situation now, but it was definitely really bad and corrupt 40 years ago. However brother, if you are living in Kashmir, then you probably know that the Indian army is really bad too.

May Allah help all the oppressed people and grant them justice. Ameen.

Assalam alaikum.

EDIT: Yes, many Bangali Muslims were killed, and it was almost a racist war by the Punjabi Pakistanis against what they considered an inferior and darker skinned people. Well, that fueled a lot of the hate. West Pakistanis had a minority of the population then (45%) but they took 85% of the resources and left 15% for about 75 million in East Pakistan. When the West lost the elections to the Awami Islamic Party (from the East), they refused to step down, and then started this genocide in Feburary 1971. The massacres continued until the end of the year. The worst part was at the end, after they knew they had lost the war, they tried to find as many University professors, students, doctors, engineers and other educated people and killed them all. Nearly all of these educated people were Muslims. The goal was to set back the new nation as far back as possible since they resisted the oppression and genocide. There are few existing videos from the end of 1971 where Muslim students and teachers were just lined up and shot dead at Dhaka University.

It's sad though, that India still benefitted from this. This separation was sad but inevitable. If you are being massacred and raped, you cannot just sit there and take it - especially when you've not done anything wrong. I don't think a centralized government like will work anyway, and it was not set up that way during the time of Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA). Each state had it's own governnor and/or leader that ruled the local people that way. Today, the United Kingdom is a good example of how four independant countries can still work cohesively as one unit, while each still have their own identity and rights.

Yes dear Indian army is very bad but they are Kafirs and we dont expect anything from them but the figures you are giving about Pakistani army is really horrible....
 

Nayyararsi

Kashmiri Brother
:salam2:
Owch wid the thread subject and seriously lay off Pakistan for once! havnt u all got better things to disscuss rather sayin bad stuff? Pakistan is a muslim country and its people are ur muslim brothers and sisters. What happend in the past was all cuz ov the evil and perfect plotting ov non muslims and there main goal was to divide us. And they won didnt they? Aint ya'll heard united we stand divided we fall? and heres what we do make them even happy aka blaming eachother and hurting our own muslim brothers or sisters... Pakistan army is bad? well what about right now when many ov our soldiers are patrolling the borders??? May Allah(swt) guide us all.....
and like SERIOUSLY stop being so like against eachother go blame america for a change....
:wasalam:

Sister i never said anything bad against Pakistan and infact Kashmiris love Pakistan more than how much Pakistanis love.i just wanted to know what had happened in 1971 as it was really disturbing my mind and the best place to find peace was TTI so i shared with you people as i find many brothers and sisters who have high level of IMAAN...Your post i am sorry is somewhat nationalistic as those killed there are also our brothers and sisters...I know very well Pakistan is a mercy for the whole ummah and its the duty of all muslims to protect it.It has been a cause of destruction of soviet union and InshaALLAH it will be cause of destruction of India and Israel...
 

Nayyararsi

Kashmiri Brother
an army is as good as it's commander and that's true for pak army. in 60's and 70's the army was very westernized; heavy drinking, sex and gambling was common place and islam was hardly a priority. yes its true that back then the army killed a lot of benaglis but you must also consider that many of these were indian proxies in Bangladesh (east pakistan back then).

It was only after the debacle of 71 that a commission was formed to find out why the army failed when just a few years earlier they had resisted india. One of the primary reasons they found out was that the soldiers lacked the islamic spirit of jihad thus zia was appointed as the chief of the army by Bhutto. since then the army had a islaamic stance, drinking was banned and a lot of things were changed with regards to protocol.

this situation continued up until musharraf came into power and he introduced the concept of enlightened moderation. Once again the army was westernized and mush basically became an american proxy in Pakistan. During his tenure there were a few rebellions with in the army. A lot of soldiers were against fighting against Muslims and there have been a few uprising.

The current chief is Kiyani, the only army chief in the world who can operate an F-16! He along with the top brass of pak army are inclined toward china instead of Pakistan's worst enemy, and back stabbers UK and US.

But the current situation of pakistan cannot be blamed on others. Mush should have taken a stand instead of being hypocritical. He should have either sided with the US or the taliban but he tried to do a bit of both and ended up doing neither. At the moment, it is a strange situation. The people are happy to see america lose but the government fears a US defeat.

As far as india and pakistan are concerned there is no comparison.

1) in pakistan there is a masjid every other street. Although there only few alhe hadees masjid but still you can pray there.
2) in pakistan, you wont see idols like you see in india. I cant believe how indian muslims can tolerate the widespread idols and idol worshiping. This just confirms their weakness.
3) Muslims (practicing ones) will always have a tough time in a kaafir country; india or any other. This is because islaam is based on pure monotheism and just cannot mix with kufr.
4) sacrificing cows and other animals is problematic in india.
5) halal food is not a problem in pakistan.

The creation of pakistan was justified. It is just one of two nation states created in the name of religion (the other being Israel). What happened afterwards is another story.

The future could be very bloody. The US and NATO have been defeated in Afghanistan and they would want to punish Pakistan. There will probably be another war between India and Pakistan maybe this year or next. However, if Pakistan collapses, i can bet my life that India will follow suit. Pakistan is the buffer between India and Afghanistan. Having defeated Russia, US and NATO in a little over 30 years, there is nothing to stop the afghan Taliban from reaching Delhi in the next 30 years. It has happened before countless times. Some of the greatest muslim warriors in Indian subcontinent have originated from Afghanistan.

Well dear that means that the genocide happened there...However if the army has changed now as you explain from westernization to Islam then may Allah bless them...InshaALLAH the day is not far when Pakistan and Afghanistan will be center of Islamic empire...
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
:salam2:
Owch wid the thread subject and seriously lay off Pakistan for once! havnt u all got better things to disscuss rather sayin bad stuff? Pakistan is a muslim country and its people are ur muslim brothers and sisters. What happend in the past was all cuz ov the evil and perfect plotting ov non muslims and there main goal was to divide us. And they won didnt they? Aint ya'll heard united we stand divided we fall? and heres what we do make them even happy aka blaming eachother and hurting our own muslim brothers or sisters... Pakistan army is bad? well what about right now when many ov our soldiers are patrolling the borders??? May Allah(swt) guide us all.....
and like SERIOUSLY stop being so like against eachother go blame america for a change....
:wasalam:

Do not get angry because we are discussing History. To discard history good or bad is a terrible thing because then it has a chance of repeating itself!

Where I live, we owned slaves. My own family owned slaves from Africa. This is something we're terribly ashamed with but just the existence of African-Americans reminds us of this constantly.

To have shame for what people did in the past is not a bad thing.

ALSO, have you not seen the amount of negative opinions on several countries? America, Qatar, KSA, Iran, Several Eueopean Countries.

May Allah (subhan wa ta'ala) bless the good people of Pakistan, and stop the corrupt ones from tarnishing your reputation. Ameen.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
Do not get angry because we are discussing History. To discard history good or bad is a terrible thing because then it has a chance of repeating itself!

Where I live, we owned slaves. My own family owned slaves from Africa. This is something we're terribly ashamed with but just the existence of African-Americans reminds us of this constantly.

To have shame for what people did in the past is not a bad thing.

ALSO, have you not seen the amount of negative opinions on several countries? America, Qatar, KSA, Iran, Several Eueopean Countries.

May Allah (subhan wa ta'ala) bless the good people of Pakistan, and stop the corrupt ones from tarnishing your reputation. Ameen.

The prophet (saw) also owned slaves and many other prophets owned salves and many sahabas also owned slaves. Furthermore at some level we are all 'slaves' to someone. The point is that owning a slave is NOT wrong AS LONG AS YOU TREAT THEM WELL.

We are living through the oil age. Energy is abundant and so is food (food = energy). This is why the societies are so complex. We have time to do other things instead of worrying about food, something that our ancestors did 24/7, when droughts and famines were rampant. Tomorrow this prosperity will vanish and then slavery, polgyny and other natural practices will become acceptable again. All these things were perfectly normal for much of human history. Perhaps the current age of fitna mentioned in the hadith; where normal becomes abnormal.

@ Nayyararsi
i dont think they have become good muslims, but their stance has changed as in pervez kiyani is guarding the interest of Pakistan rather his own interest. And Ameen to your dua.

@ Ibn Uthaymin
hey i dont want to be murdered so young. I havent even married yet!!
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o aliakum

if you read the actual history its so sad what the Pakistani army did in bangladesh but it had alot to do with politics. See there was a political uprooting the only way to supress was in their head was to kill all the people oppossing the politics, the problem with the army of any country is that they are puppets of the politicians.

Army might have something to do with it but it was mostly politicians. But the good muslims are MashAllah found in the army who have sacrificed their life to protect islam and hold the deen of Allah (swt).

the concept is very simple, if someone is nice to you 100 times but mistreats you once, you will most likely remember that one time you were mistreated over the 100 times you were treated good.

Its just a example and that wat happens but i do agree with my bangali brothers, it was a mass scale of injustice but history cant be turned back .... as a Pakistani i do wish my country didn't do it ....

Unfortunately, alot of Pakistani people dont know the reality and we do dearly love our country which will cause alot of debates on this topic ...
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
The prophet (saw) also owned slaves and many other prophets owned salves and many sahabas also owned slaves. Furthermore at some level we are all 'slaves' to someone. The point is that owning a slave is NOT wrong AS LONG AS YOU TREAT THEM WELL.

If Prophet Muhammad (saw) owned slaves, why did he buy slaves only to give them freedom? You cannot own another person...
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
:salam2:

I am a Bangladeshi myself and yes there were atrocities committed. But have not any one perceived the plotting of the kuffars, as brofer Saifuddin said? Why were the Muslims divided into two pieces of Land, where was the hindus were not, this was a very smart trick of the kuffars. They always wanted muslims to fight. Nonetheless what happened in 1971 was a disaster and bangladeshi nationals will probably not be able to forget that. This thread can turn into a disaster and endless dispute. I don't hate my pakistani brother nor the Indian brothers, as my muslim brothers were not responsible nor was I for what happened in the past. As muslims there should be no nationalism and there should be only one nation for the ummah. I love my birth land, as everybody loves their but we have to remember that the Laws of Allah, The Exalted comes first always.
 
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