TurnToIslam Islam and slavery: Why does Islam allow sex with female slaves

Munawar

Striving for Paradise
Assalam-o-alikum,
Jazakallah Khair sister for posting this important message.

Here is an another good reply:

Wassalam.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
I don't know why Muslims concern themselves with this topic. Slavery has been abolished worldwide. If a Muslim man is a slaveowner astaghfirullah, then he should immediately set her free. She will not voluntarily consent to have sex with him anyway.

Muslims should not take women as prisoners of war. If they do, then they should be prisoners...not turned into slaves.
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
Slavery was part of the world where slaves were treated like property, Islam made it better and ended it through limiting how they could be take slaves (war only) and encouraging to free them. The way slaves treated back then is better than the way many Muslims treat their wives today. The slaves of Muslims were not the same as the slaves of the kuffar, or the americans.

With what is going on in Palestine, Burma, Kashmir and other such places. I don't think their should be any prisoners for what they have and are doing.
 

Koke

Junior Member
I don't know why Muslims concern themselves with this topic. Slavery has been abolished worldwide. If a Muslim man is a slaveowner astaghfirullah, then he should immediately set her free. She will not voluntarily consent to have sex with him anyway.

Muslims should not take women as prisoners of war. If they do, then they should be prisoners...not turned into slaves.

I would have to disagree with you.

Slavery has been abolished on paper but not in practice. There is still indentured servitude which is the 'new age slavery'. Children as still traded in exchange for their parents' debts to be paid off, is this not enslavement? Women captured as POW's like during civil wars in Africa, you think they basically were not enslaved? The women were not the participants in the war, some were even part of the army that enslaved them and raped them. They are forced to labor for men who beat them and rape them, have children for these men and have these children taken from them, they are tied with rope and pulled along like a dog to follow behind the army that owns them when moving camp, is this not enslavement?

Yes some 'wives' of some Muslims in the modern era are worse off than the slaves of the past. But why do you think this is? Do you think this woman chose to become that man's wife or was forced into it? Do you think she had a choice in anything? It is more than likely a form of slavery, but no one will say it is slavery because of a marriage paper. This is why the Allah made the mandate about slavery. This is why Muslims concern themselves about slavery even in modern times. Slavery has never disappeared, it just has a new guise. Whether many Muslims are aware of this or not depends on how well they know Islam and how well they studied the Quran because Allah explains all this.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
I would have to disagree with you.

Slavery has been abolished on paper but not in practice. There is still indentured servitude which is the 'new age slavery'. Children as still traded in exchange for their parents' debts to be paid off, is this not enslavement? Women captured as POW's like during civil wars in Africa, you think they basically were not enslaved? The women were not the participants in the war, some were even part of the army that enslaved them and raped them. They are forced to labor for men who beat them and rape them, have children for these men and have these children taken from them, they are tied with rope and pulled along like a dog to follow behind the army that owns them when moving camp, is this not enslavement?

Yes some 'wives' of some Muslims in the modern era are worse off than the slaves of the past. But why do you think this is? Do you think this woman chose to become that man's wife or was forced into it? Do you think she had a choice in anything? It is more than likely a form of slavery, but no one will say it is slavery because of a marriage paper. This is why the Allah made the mandate about slavery. This is why Muslims concern themselves about slavery even in modern times. Slavery has never disappeared, it just has a new guise. Whether many Muslims are aware of this or not depends on how well they know Islam and how well they studied the Quran because Allah explains all this.

The issue I am speaking of is, sex with a female slave. Yes there are many instances of quasi-enslavement. But the Quran speaks of a Muslim man having permissible sex with his slavewoman. Not slave-child. Not rape -- sexual intercourse.

Whether non Muslims enslaving women is irrelevant. I just think it does not serve us on this forum to talk about the permissibly of a Muslim man having sex with his slave, since a Muslim man is not permitted to have a slave anyway. Islam abolished slavery, it freed all Muslims.
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
In context of Muslims having slave and having sex with them, the whole topic is irrelevant. The fact is that there were slaves in the old days and Allah allowed men take slaves to bed, but He also enjoined certain rights and treatments on them.

Today, a whole different kind of slavery exist, and a very large and profitable multi-billion business of human trafficking and sex slaves thrives underground, run by non-muslims with 99.9% non-muslim "customers".
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
Walikum asalamu warahmatullahi wabarakahu, I do have to agree slavery is still alive and well, human trafficking, child labour, etc and slavery was only abolished in U.S. and Britain since early 1800's whereas was abolished in Arabia and Muslim world during the time of the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam. It's amazing really to think the U.S. and Britain and other westernized countries take credit for the abolishing of slavery although it is still alive and well in the underground market. I think this is important topic for Muslims to research and understand as the Brother's in the videos are trying to accomplish is for Muslims to know how and why the ayats regarding the treatment of what your right hand possesses and marrying of slaves (or captives) and the importance during the time of war in the days of the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam as part of the spoils of war. Just as the story of Sister Yvonne Ridley who was captured by the Taliban, they treated her according to the way is stated to treat a captive in Islam, except she was not in need of being married off therefore there was no sex involved. This particular part of the Qur'an and times of war is used as fuel for Non Muslims to discredit Muslims and why is important to have the ability to explain these circumstances.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
I guess it's always good to know how to explain verses of the Quran, but these ayats no longer have practical use for us, as Muslims do not enslave others. A Muslim man cannot be in the presence of a woman without her mahram present, so it is impossible for a Muslim man to capture a woman as a slave and then to proceed to have sex with her.
 

Koke

Junior Member
I think it is still relevant in the context of the example the first video gives. The speaker of the first video says that this verses are relevant to armies. Well, there are Muslims in 'non-Muslim' armies. Look at the US military there are many Muslim men in it. I just think this verse is relevant in the sense it keeps our guys in check.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
assalamu alaykum. In the context of Islamic history, the Muslim soldiers ultimately had to report back and take orders from the leader of the Muslims, whether it was the Prophet Muhammad :saw: or the Caliphs who came after him. Keep in mind that prisoners were taken from the enemy (such as the, polytheists and Roman/Byzantines), and they made them into slaves - the Muslim leader could bargain with those who were captured.
 

Fatima Amenda

Junior Member
assalamu alaykum. In the context of Islamic history, the Muslim soldiers ultimately had to report back and take orders from the leader of the Muslims, whether it was the Prophet Muhammad :saw: or the Caliphs who came after him. Keep in mind that prisoners were taken from the enemy (such as the, polytheists and Roman/Byzantines), and they made them into slaves - the Muslim leader could bargain with those who were captured.

Walikum asalamu warahmatullahi wabarakatu, is very enjoyable hearing about Islamic history. There is so much to learn
 

Cariad

Junior Member
The issue I am speaking of is, sex with a female slave. Yes there are many instances of quasi-enslavement. But the Quran speaks of a Muslim man having permissible sex with his slavewoman. Not slave-child. Not rape -- sexual intercourse.

Whether non Muslims enslaving women is irrelevant. I just think it does not serve us on this forum to talk about the permissibly of a Muslim man having sex with his slave, since a Muslim man is not permitted to have a slave anyway. Islam abolished slavery, it freed all Muslims.

How can you say it is allowed sexual intercourse and not rape? You think a woman captured and enslaved would be willing to have sexual intercourse with her captor!!! You think God would condone this injustice for women?
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Walikum asalamu warahmatullahi wabarakahu, I do have to agree slavery is still alive and well, human trafficking, child labour, etc and slavery was only abolished in U.S. and Britain since early 1800's whereas was abolished in Arabia and Muslim world during the time of the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam. It's amazing really to think the U.S. and Britain and other westernized countries take credit for the abolishing of slavery although it is still alive and well in the underground market. I think this is important topic for Muslims to research and understand as the Brother's in the videos are trying to accomplish is for Muslims to know how and why the ayats regarding the treatment of what your right hand possesses and marrying of slaves (or captives) and the importance during the time of war in the days of the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam as part of the spoils of war. Just as the story of Sister Yvonne Ridley who was captured by the Taliban, they treated her according to the way is stated to treat a captive in Islam, except she was not in need of being married off therefore there was no sex involved. This particular part of the Qur'an and times of war is used as fuel for Non Muslims to discredit Muslims and why is important to have the ability to explain these circumstances.

I believe you may be mistaken with your dates..

As early as 3rd century the Indian sub continent abolished trading in slaves, but not slavery itself but did pass reforms to ensure slaves were treated well.

1102 Trade in slaves and serfdom was made illegal in London.

1215 the Magna Carta was signed, containing clause30, commonly known as Habeas Corpus, which would form the basis of a law against slavery in English common law.

1537 Pope Paul III forbids slavery of the indigenous peoples of the Americas as well as of any other new population that would be discovered, indicating their right to freedom and property. However, only Catholic countries apply it, and state that they cannot possibly enforce what happens in the distant colonies (Sublimus Dei).

1811 Slave trading made a felony in the British Empire punishable by transportation for British subjects and foreigners.

1865 December: U.S. abolishes slavery with the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution; about 40,000 remaining slaves are affected.

1960. Niger abolishes slavery (though it was not made illegal until 2003).
1962 Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery.
1962 Yemen abolishes slavery.
1963 United Arab Emirates abolishes slavery.
1970 Oman abolishes slavery.
1981 Mauritania abolishes slavery.
2007 Mauritania makes it illegal to own slaves.
2012 A CNN report describes Mauritania as "Slavery's Last Stronghold"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

It is interesting to see that the countries seen as Islamic are among the last to abolish slavery. However we all know that just because a law was passed which makes something that was once legal and acceptable it then becomes unacceptable and illegal, does not mean that it will cease to happen.

Slavery of all types is still happening everywhere, sometimes it may not be obvious but any situation that takes away the rights of a person to choose and leaves that person with no recourse to justice is slavery..be it sexual or hard work for little or no pay.

In India children work long hours for a few pence in sweat shops to satisfy the worlds need for cheap clothing. Young women are promised work with a decent wage then find they are forced into prostitution. This is not just a disease of the West but a world disease it effects everyone, but especially the poorest members of societies with little hope to start with. We have a duty to speak out against this evil wherever it is found and not to close our eyes to the unpalatable truth of what goes on around us.

Peace.
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
Today we have what is called modern day slavery. The western corporations engage in this heavily by going to developing countries such as mexica, india, south america, china, etc to find cheap and child labor. Although it is easy to point at the developing countries and say they are the ones doing it and it's happening over there, but rarely do we look at the people behind it.

Children Found Sewing Clothing For Wal-Mart, Hanes & Other U.S. & European Companies

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/lwp/NLC_childlabor.html

Child labour uncovered in Apple's supply chain

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jan/25/apple-child-labour-supply

5 Giant Companies Who Use Slave Labor

http://www.businesspundit.com/5-giant-companies-who-use-slave-labor/


Which companies use child labour?

Coca-cola

McDonalds

Nestle

adidas

American Apperal

Cheveron

Exxon

Gap

Nike

Wal-mart

Hanes

Firestone

Disney

Victoria's Secret

Abercrombie and Fitch

To name a few...
 

hayat84

I'm not what you believe
salam 'alikum to alls,in the world of kafirs the slavery still exists;they call it "commerce",but it is slavery of young girls from all the globe,just to satisfy the most perverse desires of some dirty men.
In Islam,I could say that the Quran expresses in clear words the changements of people's behaviour,if they want to follow it.obviously the people of the past were too much far from the idea of believing to one God and to treat goodly their wife:many of them were owner of female slaves and already used to "sleep" with them.To "change" their behaviour and try not to forbide it suddendly,the Quran was a guide to help little by little those ones who were owners of slaves and above all for their sons and the sens of the sons,until nowdays,where slavery can be judged negatively,but at that time it was normal.
It is like for the wine:it took many years until the people were ready to abandon the habitude to drink it.
if you take the word "slave" under a humoristic way,which woman doesn't like to be her husband's "slave"?
about the children who are used to work for the best trademarks like slaves,I've seen how they work,it's a really hard life for them...but be honest,hasn't anybody of you at least one time worn or drunk one of the product made by them?
 

gunanto_183

New Member
Bismillah. Allohumma sholi 'ala muhammad wa 'ala ali muhammad. Amma ba'du. I think it is dangerous for moslems to discuss issues of Islamic jurisprudence whereas they are not experts in it or they do not understand the Qur’an and hadith well. I think in this case required some “ulama” who are competent in it and then moslem choose one of them without having to polarize opinion and surrender them to God. May Allah ease our affairs. Amen.
 

manal09

Junior Member
I'm
I don't know why Muslims concern themselves with this topic. Slavery has been abolished worldwide. If a Muslim man is a slaveowner astaghfirullah, then he should immediately set her free. She will not voluntarily consent to have sex with him anyway.

Muslims should not take women as prisoners of war. If they do, then they should be prisoners...not turned into slaves.
coming with an answer late ..but thought of saying it, a born Muslim but now an aethist was posing me these questions and asked me why should he follow a religion that did not ban slavery and allowed to have sex with slaves?
I think this issue still is of concern :)
 

Abdul-Halim265

Junior Member
There's rape and consensual sex. Having sex with a captive doesn't mean it was coerced - i.e. rape - which is haram in shari'ah.
 
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Um Ibrahim

Alhamdulilah :)
from the things I've been reading lately concerning maids and labor workers in different countries around the world, I think Cariad is right. The modern slavery issues are not limited to the west, there are a lot of Muslims just as guilty as well, unfortunately. It's a big problem. But the media is not always honest and against Muslims and Islam so, Allahu a'lam if everything out there about maids and workers in Muslim countries are true.
 
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