Meat... or Vegetarian?

[BrotherInIslam7]

And I am not sure why that does NOT cover meat in the United States, which is classified as a Christian country. Allah knows best.

Because the majority of the Christians don't consume slaughtered meat anyway. The meat sold in groceries here are most likely stunned and not slaughtered.

As brother thariq pointed out that the fatwa puts a condition in which is applicable to the US ie to kill the animal by electric shock, strangling or striking it on the head.

My Imam stated in one of his rulings :-

Eating meat that has not been slaughtered in the prescribed Shari’ manner is forbidden. This is because the general ruling for animal meat is that it is haram unless it has been slaughtered in the prescribed manner.

This would make it prohibited for us muslims to consume such meat. If there is an absence of halaal meat available, people should avoid eating meat altogether (and get on a vegetarian or seafood diet). This is what I have heard from my Imam and teachers.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[AdamMuslim]

Assalamou Alikom Warahmatou Allah,

Brother BrotherInIslam7 is right all along!
Yes the stunned meet is not halal because the electric shock does kill the animal. I've seen a whole documentary, a while ago, about the animal slaughter and they clearly stated that the electric shock is meant to kill! Hence the meat is "maytah".

Me too I haven't heard any respected scholar who gave fatwah allowing people to eat such meat. For us who live in the west I think there is plenty of alternatives. I myself haven't eaten red meet for more than 4 months now . There is a turkish butcher in my neiberhood but I didn't like the qualitiy of the meat there. Hence, I'm sticking with fish and vegy diet and lots of egs

Wassalam

 

[zinirah]

no i'm not starting an argument...but like i said we should just stay away from the meat all together if it's not halal...instead of a whole song and dance...that simple....basically it's like saying alcohol is halal when there is nothing else like it to drink....anyways...if you can't find halal meat anywhere..then it's not going to kill you if you don't eat meat, because theres meat replacers out there...also...yeah yeah fatwas...they come out with a new fatwa every month...

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum

I was requested to give some input here so I hope this is of value...

For those with a die-heard attitude about this matter, please drop your hands to your sides, because like many other areas of Islamic fiqh, this is an area of genuine differing between the different schools of thought, and none of us are near certainty on this issue, although we believe our views are closer to the truth...

Regarding meat, we know that today in the West, most kitaabis don't even utter any name (not even `Isa's) upon slaughtering their meat for starts, which presents a bit of a problem. They also stun their meat, although now in the UK, the precision of stunning has got to a stage where animals don't necessarily die from stunning as they use to some years ago. At the same time, we know that by Islamic law (or at least one opinion), we are not obligated to dig deep into the matter, asking people about the way in which their meat has been slaughtered...

The matter is simple... Read the proofs as understood by the Islamic scholars. See what you think is closest to the truth and stick to it. Alternatively, adhere to your madh'hab if you follow one, especially if you're confused. If someone asks you about this or any matter, present to them what you know by way of Islamic law and the speech of respected and educated scholars.

I don't think anyone of us here (I'm repeating this I know) have the right, permission or even ability to make ijtihaad to cough-up our own conclusions from the evidences, so we should be very careful in sharing or pushing our personal opinions which are not built upon Islamic principles of derivation...

 

[JenGiove]

basically it's like saying alcohol is halal when there is nothing else like it to drink....anyways...if you can't find halal meat anywhere..then it's not going to kill you if you don't eat meat, because theres meat replacers out there...also...yeah yeah fatwas...they come out with a new fatwa every month...

Salaam,

I have some questions, mainly because some of this conversation is confusing but...

Zinirah
Your example is nice except there is one flaw. It says in (the Qur'an?) that pork is Halal is you have no other choice...so if all there is to drink is alcohol, wouldn't the same apply? Just a thought.

I know what 'halal' and 'haram' mean but not 'maytah' or 'zabeeha' and 'non-zabeeha', would you be so kind as to define that for me?

Also, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly, while slaughtering an animal you say thank the Creator for the sacrifice of one creation's life to save another? If this is correct, then the Native do the same thing. When we have to kill a plant or animal, we says prayers of thanks for that life.

 

[thariq2005]

As-salaamu `alaykum

I was requested to give some input here so I hope this is of value...

For those with a die-heard attitude about this matter, please drop your hands to your sides, because like many other areas of Islamic fiqh, this is an area of genuine differing between the different schools of thought, and none of us are near certainty on this issue, although we believe our views are closer to the truth...

Regarding meat, we know that today in the West, most kitaabis don't even utter any name (not even `Isa's) upon slaughtering their meat for starts, which presents a bit of a problem. They also stun their meat, although now in the UK, the precision of stunning has got to a stage where animals don't necessarily die from stunning as they use to some years ago. At the same time, we know that by Islamic law (or at least one opinion), we are not obligated to dig deep into the matter, asking people about the way in which their meat has been slaughtered...

The matter is simple... Read the proofs as understood by the Islamic scholars. See what you think is closest to the truth and stick to it. Alternatively, adhere to your madh'hab if you follow one, especially if you're confused. If someone asks you about this or any matter, present to them what you know by way of Islamic law and the speech of respected and educated scholars.

I don't think anyone of us here (I'm repeating this I know) have the right, permission or even ability to make ijtihaad to cough-up our own conclusions from the evidences, so we should be very careful in sharing or pushing our personal opinions which are not built upon Islamic principles of derivation...

Wa `alaykkum salaam wa rahmatullaah

JazakAllaahu khairaa, I agree! Well said

Wassalaamu `alaykkum

 

[Tabassum07]

I was about to post a thread about such a topic, but I see it already exists.

I have been amazed at the number of muslims who say it's okay to eat non-zabiha chicken. Their reason is that a "fatwa" has been issued. I am shocked and amazed at the number of people who happily go to fast food joints and don't even bother asking what is in their food, and eating it happily as long as their is no pork in it. How is this possible? Yes, Islam provides the rule to eat from people of the book. But they are mostly secular grocery stores in existence now. If you can find a private farmer who slaughters his meat in the Christian or Jewish way, alhamdulillah, otherwise, how can a person eat this meat when it's origin is so messy? Ask the national grocerychains. I doubt they would give you an answer which would match Christian/Jewish standards.

Again, it seems to me like the entire muslim community where I am all eat chicken/beef from common stores. Why?

 

[zinirah]

Salaam,

I have some questions, mainly because some of this conversation is confusing but...

Zinirah
Your example is nice except there is one flaw. It says in (the Qur'an?) that pork is Halal is you have no other choice...so if all there is to drink is alcohol, wouldn't the same apply? Just a thought.

I know what 'halal' and 'haram' mean but not 'maytah' or 'zabeeha' and 'non-zabeeha', would you be so kind as to define that for me?

Also, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly, while slaughtering an animal you say thank the Creator for the sacrifice of one creation's life to save another? If this is correct, then the Native do the same thing. When we have to kill a plant or animal, we says prayers of thanks for that life.

No it doesn't say in the Qur'an "If you have no other choice"....Your not even muslim so this forum post shouldnt matter to you, because you can eat either meat and in your mind it doesnt have any affect on you. I don't meant that in any harshness just so you know.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

No it doesn't say in the Qur'an "If you have no other choice"....Your not even muslim so this forum post shouldnt matter to you, because you can eat either meat and in your mind it doesnt have any affect on you. I don't meant that in any harshness just so you know.

Salaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi,

Well sister. With due respect to you, your tone is harsh with sister JenGiove here. She is interested to know about Islam and our various beliefs and rituals. So instead of giving her the necessary information, we are telling her that 'why does she care since she is not a muslim'.

We need to be kind and respectful to our guests. Let's remember that InshaAllah.

Salaam,

I have some questions, mainly because some of this conversation is confusing but...

Zinirah
Your example is nice except there is one flaw. It says in (the Qur'an?) that pork is Halal is you have no other choice...so if all there is to drink is alcohol, wouldn't the same apply? Just a thought.

I know what 'halal' and 'haram' mean but not 'maytah' or 'zabeeha' and 'non-zabeeha', would you be so kind as to define that for me?

Also, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly, while slaughtering an animal you say thank the Creator for the sacrifice of one creation's life to save another? If this is correct, then the Native do the same thing. When we have to kill a plant or animal, we says prayers of thanks for that life.

Hello ,

In case of necessity such as if someone is starving to death and doesn't find any other food or dying of thirst without any trace of permissible drink (water,juice etc). He/She can consume non halaal meat (or drink alcohol) to keep themselves alive. This is incase of extreme emergency. One doesn't eat his/her full, but enough to keep themselves alive.

As for slaughtering, we acknowledge that Allah Almighty is our provider and sustainer. He has provided us with the animal for our consumption, so we acknowledge this fact and slaughter by beginning in the name of Allah.

Our religion allows us to consume the meat of People of the book (jews and christians), but we can't do the same with other religions even if they slaughter in the name of the Creator. This is because we have more in common with the People of the book and like us, God Almighty send them each a Prophet who are also a Prophets of Islam. As such, we have some relaxation in terms or dealing with the People of the book.

Hope this makes sense.

Btw..

Maytah = Dead meat (can't be consumed by muslim) after animal died on it's own, killed by another animal or killed by human by non shariah ways.

Zabeeha - slaughtered properly by the rules specified in shariah.. This is halaal for consumption for muslims.

Non Zabeeha - non slaughtered..

 

[JenGiove]

Hello ,

In case of necessity such as if someone is starving to death and doesn't find any other food or dying of thirst without any trace of permissible drink (water,juice etc). He/She can consume non halaal meat (or drink alcohol) to keep themselves alive. This is incase of extreme emergency. One doesn't eat his/her full, but enough to keep themselves alive.

Brother,
That's what I thought but since I don't have things memorized, I couldn't remember if it was Surah or Sunnah....from the Qur'an directly or from the "explainitive" teachings of the Prophet. I don't always have the correct words to convey what I'm talking about so try to make due with how I understand the thing. I'm sorry if this has caused discord...There are so many words to learn and some are so similar in spelling and pronunciation. To learn both a subject and its language at the same time is a daunting task.

As for slaughtering, we acknowledge that Allah Almighty is our provider and sustainer. He has provided us with the animal for our consumption, so we acknowledge this fact and slaughter by beginning in the name of Allah.

That's what I thought. The natives have that same respect and thankfulness, be it a simple berry or something from a hunt.

Our religion allows us to consume the meat of People of the book (jews and christians), but we can't do the same with other religions even if they slaughter in the name of the Creator. This is because we have more in common with the People of the book and like us, God Almighty send them each a Prophet who are also a Prophets of Islam. As such, we have some relaxation in terms or dealing with the People of the book.

I understand. To explain our "prophets" would be extremely difficult for me as they are not from my nation's tradition but have become accepted and their teachings have become integrated and fused in our own.

Btw..

Maytah = Dead meat (can't be consumed by muslim) after animal died on it's own, killed by another animal or killed by human by non shariah ways.

Zabeeha - slaughtered properly by the rules specified in shariah.. This is halaal for consumption for muslims.

Non Zabeeha - non slaughtered..

Maytah...shiver...the only way I'd eat pre-killed meat is if I had no other choice...survival or death....I'm not even sure about the "died on their own" part....I saw it on tv once and thought I was going to barf!

A clarification please...non-Zabeeha....unkilled/alive or killed in non shariah ways? How is Shariah and zabeeha related?

 

[JenGiove]

No it doesn't say in the Qur'an "If you have no other choice"....Your not even muslim so this forum post shouldnt matter to you, because you can eat either meat and in your mind it doesnt have any affect on you. I don't meant that in any harshness just so you know.

Sister,
I may not follow the rules as set down in the Qur'an, but that does not mean that I do not care about learning them. It matters to YOU and to the other members here who I have grown to respect, so, it matters to me.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

A clarification please...non-Zabeeha....unkilled/alive or killed in non shariah ways? How is Shariah and zabeeha related?

The way prescribed in shariah (Islamic Law) is to slaughter in the name of Allah. The process of proper slaughtering according to rules and regulations in Islamic law make the meat to be classified as 'zabeeha halaal'.

Non zabeeha could be from electrocuting/stunning, striking it's head, strangling and other cruel ways of taking the life of an animal.

 

[Hilal Said]

I always think in business.

If I live in US or any non-Muslim country; I will try to make your problem a business opportunity. Why don't you ask Muslim organizations in your country to increase the number of halal shops or build Islamic hypermarkets.

I hope I have enough money. I will open a big super market for Muslims in a big city like New York.
:salam2:

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

I always think in business.

If I live in US or any non-Muslim country; I will try to make your problem a business opportunity. Why don't you ask Muslim organizations in your country to increase the number of halal shops or build Islamic hypermarkets.

I hope I have enough money. I will open a big super market for Muslims in a big city like New York.
:salam2:

:salam2:

Most of the major cities with sizable muslim population do have halaal meat shops and hypermarkets.

Also, some muslim people down south here own ranches where you can buy goats, sheep, cows, chicken and slaughter it yourself or have them slaughter it for you.

So facilities for halaal food are available here Alhamdulillah. It comes down to how much people care about consuming halaal and/or their opinions with regards to consuming non zabeeha meat.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[JenGiove]

The way prescribed in shariah (Islamic Law) is to slaughter in the name of Allah. The process of proper slaughtering according to rules and regulations in Islamic law make the meat to be classified as 'zabeeha halaal'.

Non zabeeha could be from electrocuting/stunning, striking it's head, strangling and other cruel ways of taking the life of an animal.

So essentially, Zabeeha Halaal meat is "Spiritually legal and allowable". Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Tabassum07]

My father and brother went over to a farm yesterday and got some halal goat meat - it felt like Eid ul Adha, lol..

I've wondered about this for some time: why don't we muslims create like an entire muslim town or city in the US with completely 100% muslim businesses, banks, schools, etc? It's tremendous job opportunity, sense of community and probably we won't have to deal with all these little things we deal with everyday. What say? I would move there in a flash.. this scattered-ness saddens me a bit.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

My father and brother went over to a farm yesterday and got some halal goat meat - it felt like Eid ul Adha, lol..

I've wondered about this for some time: why don't we muslims create like an entire muslim town or city in the US with completely 100% muslim businesses, banks, schools, etc? It's tremendous job opportunity, sense of community and probably we won't have to deal with all these little things we deal with everyday. What say? I would move there in a flash.. this scattered-ness saddens me a bit.

:salam2:

I dont quite follow. How can we make sure that the town only has muslim businesses running in that town ? What do we do about the liquor stores, the Walmarts etc etc ?

Also if we are nominating/voting towns for such a project, Could it please be somewhere in the warm south ? lol.. I don't think most of us like the cold north.. brrrr..

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

For many Muslims halal meat is too expensive. Small communities Muslims order meat from the largest city close to them. The meat is delivered to a masjid. Unless one has a large ice box to freeze the meat it becomes a very expensive adventure.

If one does not live in the hub of a Muslim community it becomes an ordeal to drive and purchase the meat. If a person does not drive and uses public transportation it doubles the effort.

If a person relies on food stamps they have to make sure the store accepts the EBT cards.

I am not making excuses but giving reasons why it may be difficult for some to buy halal meat.

Eat fish!

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am not making excuses but giving reasons why it may be difficult for some to buy halal meat.

Eat fish!

Yes. If halaal food is expensive, just turn vegetarian or eat sea food. It's not like people don't survive without eating meat.

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

I dont quite follow. How can we make sure that the town only has muslim businesses running in that town ? What do we do about the liquor stores, the Walmarts etc etc ?

Also if we are nominating/voting towns for such a project, Could it please be somewhere in the warm south ? lol.. I don't think most of us like the cold north.. brrrr..

:salam2:

I'm not sure how to explain this - I guess it's just me dreaming of having an Islamic Khilafat. I'm not even sure if this idea is feasible or not. But think of it like this: right now, most Western countries have some muslims living in each town. But the number of muslims living there (and I'm not talking about just the big citites, but average towns as well) is not as much, meaning that halal meat is hard to come by, its difficult to find shariah ways to take loans/make investments. So my idea was, instead of all the muslims in US (or any western country), instead of living scattered, all move to any one area, and sort of make an Islamic city. It would be ideal if non-muslims don't also open up their businesses in that city, and it's all by the muslims, for the muslims in a way.

Is this a silly idea? I suppose one could argue that this way non-muslims would not be exposed to Islam, and hence, dawah would decrease. But on the other hand, we'd be living in a totally 100% muslim locality. Another downside is that the enemies of Islam would find us an easy target to attack us. But also, numbers would give us strength to defend ourselves.

And brother, I did not specify any area.. it doesn't matter where it is - a warmer place would be great, I agree.

Sorry, perhaps this idea is too silly and makes no sense. But it's just a dream.