Questions about the Islamic State.

[MehmetHilmi]

Selamün Aleyküm dear brothers and sisters of turntoIslam.

For my whole life, I have lived in Turkey and America. My family wasn't super religious. No one had a long beard, we were ok with music, we had supported political parties, and many more. Still, we were Muslim. And I, especially, was raised with Islamic teachings. I learned how to read Arabic at an early age and managed to read the Quran and memorize a lot of surahs. When we moved to America, I continued Islamic education through Sunday schools and frequent visits to the Religious Turkish community (followers of Fethullah Gulen). I basically grew up on Mr. Gulen's teaching and views of Islam. However, as I grew older and I grew conscious of the Internet, I started searching for Islamic answers online. I am naturally a curious person, so I questioned many things about my life, for which I tried to find answers.
One thing that surprised me was how contradicting some of the informationI found online was to what I was raised with. While the Internet's Muslims declared that Instruments were Haram, the Turkish religous community embraced Sufi and Ottoman Classical Music. In fact, The Turkish Olympiads are an annual contest organized By Mr. Gulen's followers. In those Olympiads, children from around the world gather in Turkey for a song contest. None of the songs are against Islamic values. Neither would they tempt someone to do evil. They are all Turkish, and the contain many instruments, even the electric guitar. My question is this:

Would different interpretations of Islam be respected in an Ideal Islamic State? For instance, would a Muslim who does not believe music is Haram be allowed to become a musician?

 

[MehmetHilmi]

Or would a Muslim who does not believe a beard needs to be grown, be punished if they shave?

What I mean really is that Muslims have divided views. No group is 100% correct. SO, according to whom shall the state be run? Personally I believe the solution to this would be to have representation for every Muslim sect in the government, even Shias should have representation. And initially, the Caliphate should refrain from making sect specific rulings. Eventually the differences could be ironed out with cooperation and mutual understanding, NOT by leaving people out.

 

[HirraJaved]

i feel like your kind of confused so let me tell you something. Al-Tirmidhi 171 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Amr
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There will befall my Ummah exactly (all those) evils which befell the people of Isra'il, so much so that if there was one amongst them who openly committed fornication with his mother there will be among my Ummah one who will do that, and if the people of Isra'il were fragmented into seventy-two sects my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. They (the Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that? Whereupon he said: It is one to which I and my companions belong.

 

[MehmetHilmi]

i feel like your kind of confused so let me tell you something. Al-Tirmidhi 171 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Amr
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There will befall my Ummah exactly (all those) evils which befell the people of Isra'il, so much so that if there was one amongst them who openly committed fornication with his mother there will be among my Ummah one who will do that, and if the people of Isra'il were fragmented into seventy-two sects my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. They (the Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that? Whereupon he said: It is one to which I and my companions belong.

What about Madhabs? WHich one is correct? Even within Madhabs there are different views. Ok, let's sit here and keep giving fuel to the sectarian violence going on in Iraq. Shia killing Sunnis, Sunnis killing Shias all because one group believes the other is wrong. With this mindset, I wonder how the Caliphate will ever unite Muslims? By the way, Futhullah Gulen is a very qualified Islamic scholar. DOn't think he just pulls his ideas out of nowhere. He too knows of that Hadith. He has stated it many times in his speeches. His followers are everywhere, setting up schools, just as the early companions spread Islam around the world. Maybe you are confused on who he his and his great contributions.

 

[Mabsoot]

Wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

There existed a lot of people with varying views in the past, and the Islamic states and Muslim leaders in the Golden Era of Islam, when knowledge and learning flourished, were quite able to tolerate the diverse peoples. The existance of Churches and synagogues is evidence to that. The Prophet Muhammad (s) and the sahaba allowed the Jews and Christians freedom to worship, the churches (and their bells) were not destroyed, nor were any of their acts of worship - including their hymn singing and chanting banned.

In these times, we are seeing a resurgence in Islam. Alhamdulillah many are returning to the Quran and Sunnah, but the tolerance that the early Islam taught seems to be lost on some in the new generation of practising Muslims. As long as you can live your life according to Islam, practise it, you should "live and let live" when you see people believing different than you. Otherwise, there will be immeasurable bloodshed. Certainly the sectarian violence which has risen up in places like Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, did not occur in the early Muslim history.

Islam teaches that the Muslims will succeed when they unite together on the Deen. So a leader who can bring together the Muslims upon Tawheed will champion the cause of the Ummah. Anything else, i.e. political slogans, campaigning using socialism, communism etc will never bring together people on good. Allah knows best, I believe it is highly unlikely we will see anyone do that in our lifetimes, but I would hope that over the coming years with the knowledge of Islam and the lessons being learned now from the various wars and fighting between Muslims themselves, people might wise up.

Wasalamu alaykum

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu alaykum,

"Live and let live" is different to ignoring, one can advise etc. I was thinking more on the lines of differences between madhabs and being respectful to our Muslim brothers and sisters etc - Having said that, I do not see the Quran and Sunnah advocating people entering houses without permission to break musical instruments. Islam gives us law and order and a system to abide by.

- On a side note, brother I noticed you write in text speech, i.e "some1" and "u". We do have rules here, one of them is that our users write to the best of their ability. It is a matter of respect, if one of our brothers or sisters takes their time to write, you should do too in a similar way. If you are unable to do so, please refrain from writing.

 

[SonOfAdam]

Wa Aleykum Selam Mehmet Abi,

These are good questions to ask and ponder about. Inshallah we should look to correct ourselves first and then Allah will give us our Islamic state when the Ummah is deserving.

Verily Allah does not change men's condition unless they change their inner selves [Quran 13: 11]

If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? In Allah, then, Let believers put their trust. [Quran 3:160]

So we must rectify our own selves and put our trust in Allah SWT, this should be our focus- not worrying about how things will work. We know the Khalifa will return before the Day of Judgment and that Mehdi will come and their will be justice and peace for Muslims again, so do not stress about it much akhi. We do not know the future but we can learn from history- and unfortunately history is very bloody so these big changes will not come without bloodshed and conflict, but inshallah it will not be worse than things are now in the Ummah.

The Prophet SAW first educated his followers and taught them to fear Allah SWT, hell and to hope for Jennah. These were the first Ayats given to us by Allah SWT. After those ayats to bring the peoples hearts closer to Islam then did any command for right and wrong come from Allah SWT. And since the people's hearts were then attached to Allah SWT and akhira, then they accepted all (no zina, no alcohol, jihad, wear hijab, etc.) without question and with great joy and willful obedience.

Narrated Yusuf bin Mahk:
While I was with Aisha, the mother of the Believers, a person from Iraq came and asked, "What type of shroud is the best?" 'Aisha said, "May Allah be merciful to you! What does it matter?" He said, "O mother of the Believers! Show me (the copy of) your Qur'an," She said, "Why?" He said, "In order to compile and arrange the Qur'an according to it, for people recite it with its Suras not in proper order." 'Aisha said, "What does it matter which part of it you read first? (Be informed) that the first thing that was revealed thereof was a Sura from Al-Mufassal, and in it was mentioned Paradise and the Fire. When the people embraced Islam, the Verses regarding legal and illegal things were revealed. If the first thing to be revealed was: 'Do not drink alcoholic drinks.' people would have said, 'We will never leave alcoholic drinks,' and if there had been revealed, 'Do not commit illegal sexual intercourse, 'they would have said, 'We will never give up illegal sexual intercourse.' While I was a young girl of playing age, the following Verse was revealed in Mecca to Muhammad: 'Nay! But the Hour is their appointed time (for their full recompense), and the Hour will be more grievous and more bitter.' (54.46) Sura Al-Baqara (The Cow) and Surat An-Nisa (The Women) were revealed while I was with him." Then 'Aisha took out the copy of the Qur'an for the man and dictated to him the Verses of the Suras (in their proper order) . [Sahih Bukhari]

So it is not for a Muslim leader to just come and enforce Islam on people before educating them. You are not accountable for any actions until you know after all so these people should not be punished but educated on what is proper ways/actions of Muslims. The Ummah has many people that don't know much about Islam, and what they do know is wrong. We must try to educate these people when we find them since they are closer to kufur then Islam. Many leave the folds of Islam daily by their sayings of things about Islam they have no knowledge about. But we should not call them Kafir (Only Allah knows what is in their hearts and if they are kafir or not, this type of things should only be left to scholars to decide and say), but try to educate them in a good way inshallah so their hearts can grow attached to the deen inshallah- this is one of the many things Fetullah Gulen is good at. He appeals to many people- even the worst people on earth. I know one person that was so bad, so bad I cannot even mention, but they read one of Fetullah Gulen's books and are now practicing elhamdulillah.

For any society to be successful it must be just and tolerant to people. Elhamdulillah, these are among the foundations of Islam. Elhamdulillah Fetullah Gulen is one of the better Turkish scholars in my opinion, he and his followers do much good for people and the ummah though some things like the Singing show you mentioned I don't like either. However, like you say, there are different opinions and we should respect them. Allah us Sunnah wal Jammat do not say that any Madhab is wrong, they all accept them as correct and that the differences of opinions between scholars is fine and a mercy from Allah SWT. The differences are so minor and unimportant that it does not really matter in my opinion and warrant for us to divide each other in anyway. We should take from all great scholars and people. Even if a scholar is not perfect we can still learn from them and leave the things we don't agree with. This is how the Sahabah were, they had differences of opinions too sometimes, but it was not like they considered one person a better Muslim than another because of it. They still got a long fine despite differences. We should be careful to not let sheytan in and make divisions between our ummah, it is so easy to be accepting and tolerant and be nice compared to being mean and hateful.

There are times to be tough and times to be nice. The times to be tough are very seldom but the times to be nice are very often.

 

[HirraJaved]

What about Madhabs? WHich one is correct? Even within Madhabs there are different views. Ok, let's sit here and keep giving fuel to the sectarian violence going on in Iraq. Shia killing Sunnis, Sunnis killing Shias all because one group believes the other is wrong. With this mindset, I wonder how the Caliphate will ever unite Muslims? By the way, Futhullah Gulen is a very qualified Islamic scholar. DOn't think he just pulls his ideas out of nowhere. He too knows of that Hadith. He has stated it many times in his speeches. His followers are everywhere, setting up schools, just as the early companions spread Islam around the world. Maybe you are confused on who he his and his great contributions.

Actually i dont know about him at all but thats great he sounds like a good person. I dont know about shia and sunni uniting, that will probably never happen. Again another barrier that stops us from building khilafah once more. Its sad to see them fighting because you know neither of them is right. Only the one islam revealed 1400 years ago is the real one that will take us to jannah.

 

[Precious Star]

^

actually i disagree with this 'live and let live'.

Now i've read alot of stuff regarding issues such as music , not praying and whos a kaffir and whos not.

With regards to music , if some1 hears the instrument being played in some1s house , then he should go into that house without permission and break that instrument as per Imam Abu Hanifah(rad)

With regards to not praying , Imam Hanbali(rad) declared those people kaffir but the other 3 jurists only declared them as fasiqs.

And then there is also the punishment of forcing people to pray if they persist on not praying , first through counselling and if that doesnt work then more extreme measures are to be taken , i even heard sheikh asim al hakeem say if some1 is taking poison and u stop him but he doesnt then u should even beat him so that u can save his life.

So basically 'live and let live' , isnt really what muslims preach as we are not a democracy , we are a theocracy.

How can a mere human being, a slave of Allah, "declare" someone a "kaafir" -- that is Allah SWT's prerogative alone. Furthermore, the question of charging into someone's home without permission to destroy instruments -- that is so disturbing and contrary to the Islamic spirit of respecting people. What if there are uncovered women in that home? What if the owners of the home area also supporting elderly people in their house and by trespassing into the home you disturb those people? I know I would not want a strange man running into my home without permission, breaking my windows/locks just so he can destroy a musical instrument.

 

[MehmetHilmi]

Thank you for the Answers. I really appreciate them and hope that one day more Muslims and Non Muslims will know about the Pluralist society that Islam really advocates.

 

[Janaan]

How can a mere human being, a slave of Allah, "declare" someone a "kaafir" -- that is Allah SWT's prerogative alone.

I agree, that judgment rests with Allaah `azza wa jalla alone. This is a very serious matter, but I'm amazed at how often it's brought up subhaanallaah. This is slightly long, but @noobz I hope you can benefit from it.

Furthermore, the question of charging into someone's home without permission to destroy instruments -- that is so disturbing and contrary to the Islamic spirit of respecting people.

This was only the view of imaam Aboo Haneefah as he was the most strict when it came to music.
Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The madhhab of Abu Haneefah is the strictest in this regard, and his comments are among the harshest. His companions clearly stated that it is haraam to listen to all musical instruments such as the flute and the drum, even tapping a stick. They stated that it is a sin which implies that a person is a faasiq (rebellious evil doer) whose testimony should be rejected. They went further than that and said that listening to music is fisq (rebellion, evildoing) and enjoying it is kufr (disbelief). This is their words. They narrated in support of that a hadeeth which could not be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They said: he should try not to hear it if he passes by it or it is in his vicinity. Abu Yoosuf said, concerning a house from which could be heard the sound of musical instruments: Go in without their permission, because forbidding evil actions is obligatory, and if it were not allowed to enter without permission, people could not have fulfilled the obligatory duty (of enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil). (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).
So, as you see, this opinion was put into place in light of enjoining god and forbidding evil, but that's his opinion and his opinion alone (rahimahullah), may Allah reward him with jannat-ul-firdaws for his great work. Anyway I think the brother received beneficial replies from our two brothers alhamdulillaah.

 

[MehmetHilmi]

I agree, that judgment rests with Allaah `azza wa jalla alone. This is a very serious matter, but I'm amazed at how often it's brought up subhaanallaah. This is slightly long, but @noobz I hope you can benefit from it.
This was only the view of imaam Aboo Haneefah as he was the most strict when it came to music.
Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The madhhab of Abu Haneefah is the strictest in this regard, and his comments are among the harshest. His companions clearly stated that it is haraam to listen to all musical instruments such as the flute and the drum, even tapping a stick. They stated that it is a sin which implies that a person is a faasiq (rebellious evil doer) whose testimony should be rejected. They went further than that and said that listening to music is fisq (rebellion, evildoing) and enjoying it is kufr (disbelief). This is their words. They narrated in support of that a hadeeth which could not be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They said: he should try not to hear it if he passes by it or it is in his vicinity. Abu Yoosuf said, concerning a house from which could be heard the sound of musical instruments: Go in without their permission, because forbidding evil actions is obligatory, and if it were not allowed to enter without permission, people could not have fulfilled the obligatory duty (of enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil). (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).
So, as you see, this opinion was put into place in light of enjoining god and forbidding evil, but that's his opinion and his opinion alone (rahimahullah), may Allah reward him with jannat-ul-firdaws for his great work. Anyway I think the brother received beneficial replies from our two brothers alhamdulillaah.

I've never heard of that before actually. Although I consider myself to be Hanafi, I don't believe music is Haram. I think every Muslim would agree with enjoining god and forbidding evil. However what defines good and what defines evil? For me, I play the guitar for instance, and I would not want anyone to come into my house and break it. I don't consider it evil, but others do and I respect that, but they should respect me as well. Additionally, Respecting doesn't mean accepting.

Maybe I should add one more thing. Imam Abu Hanifa was a great scholar. But there were more, right. Are we to say that scholars like Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi, Ibn Sina, Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, Rumi, Ibn Rushd, and many more were engaging in kufr because they favorably viewed music?