Somali Man stoned!

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a_stranger

Junior Member
First Allah swt wants man not to kill , and in Islam there is a very effective means to prevent killing and all kinds of sins by planting Taqwa ( conciseness) in hearts ...praying fasting ....remembering Allah should all serve this purpose. But when a killer do such horrible act then it is up to the family of the victum to kill the murder or forgive..... if they forgive Allah will forgive them but in killing the murder also a benifet of saving more lifes for the future ....All lifes are equal in the eyes of Allah ....There is no wisdom to save killers and encourge more killings
 

abubaseer

tanzil.info
Staff member
The stoning system serves another very important side which you're not seeing. Stoning serves are a reminder and as a lesson for those who watch which in turn will serve to deter the masses from committing or even thinking about crime. Can you imagine what lesson would be learned by the masses if they only heard on TV that so and so criminal had been executed painlessly using lethal injection in some isolated lab with no one to witness?? There would be absolutely no connection or no lesson learned with this method.

I sooo disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying. CP does not in any way deter criminals otherwise they would be no crime. Most crimes that would qualify for CP are not premedidated which would makes the deterent issue null and void. Lethal injection is in no way painless. infact many states in the US have banned the use of the one of the chemicals in the 3 syringe cocktail,From being used to euthinise animals due to the pain it causes. So if it causes pain in animals just imagine the pain it could cause on humans.

You're looking into a very small box in your head. You have to think out of that box in order to comprehend the bigger picture. A good start would be to really envision YOUR OWN sister or daughter getting raped and then killed in the most heinous way. Then tell me if YOU want to have mercy on that criminal. If you still insist on your idea, then you are truly delusional, and our efforts on this topic are futile.

My beielfs in the DP would not change if myself or any of my friends were raped, murderd. I don't belive in the old eye for an eye adige. You can punish an offender by jailing them for life and make sure they never get out. If that makes me delusional then so be it.

1. Just compare the crime rate of US or UK with Saudi and you will the answer.

2. In any Society only very small % of the those commit rape or murder actually get convicted.

3. Around 50% of the Rapists and Murderers are repeat offenders. Which means if they come back to the Society they will commit yet another Crime.

So it depends who we wan to protect, the small % of people from Rapists and Murders who got convicted or other many many innocent Citizens?


Islamic Sharia saves innocent Citizen and gives exemplary punishment to the those very few offenders so that it serves as a deterrent to others.

But, there might be people like you whp might want to forgive the offender, then that option is also there. But, it is not imposed by someone else on the Victims Family. But, a choice given to the Victims family.
 

vegangoth

Banned
But not every killer would go on to kill again. What about the people that have been put to death for non-violent crimes such as homosexuals ( not that I agree that homosexuality should be a crime) or the people that would ( if they had lived) been found innocent of the crime they were convicted of. The DP also inflicts suffering on the criminals family, who have done nothing to deserve their punishment. Children aslo routinley get executed, Would Allah condone that?
 

abubaseer

tanzil.info
Staff member
But not every killer would go on to kill again. What about the people that have been put to death for non-violent crimes such as homosexuals ( not that I agree that homosexuality should be a crime) or the people that would ( if they had lived) been found innocent of the crime they were convicted of. The DP also inflicts suffering on the criminals family, who have done nothing to deserve their punishment. Children aslo routinley get executed, Would Allah condone that?

Check the stats. 50% are repeat offenders, in crimes like rape and Murder.

What about suffering of Victims Family? Let them decide if they want to forgive.

And we see the same people who are against Islamic Shairah. It the same Governments who are killing Millions of innocents Men Women and even children as "Collateral Damage" to save the World??

As for "Childrens routinely get executed?"

1.This utterly rubbish claim from someone who is not only ignoramous of Islamic Sharia but also a LIAR against Islaam.
Children are not even punished in Islamic Sharia, Capital Punishment is going too far..

But, we have hundreds of thousands of completely innocent children being killed/tortured by same people who make and propogate against Islamic Shariah.

For example in Iraq Afghanistan and Guantanamo and other many many unknown prisons in last fews years alone and also as we speak.

2.Can you point out how many executions of Children were done in last 10 years of 100 years in Saudi Arabia or another other Country where there is/was Islamic Sharia?
 

vegangoth

Banned
1. Just compare the crime rate of US or UK with Saudi and you will the answer.


You have a point but people still commit crime in Saudi plus they are much more barbaric in their state sanctioned revenge. All a goverment sanctioned murder does is show society that killing is ok. You don't teach someone that murder is wrong by murdering someone. Statisitcs have shown that the rate of crime in the US has gone down in the states that abolished the DP ( according to Amnestiy international)

Crime will always be there, even Saudi has shown that. Dosen't mean we have to lose our humanity in the fight against it


2. In any Society only very small % of the those commit rape or murder actually get convicted.

That's true sadly

3. Around 50% of the Rapists and Murderers are repeat offenders. Which means if they come back to the Society they will commit yet another Crime.

So you lock them up and never let them out, then you dont have a problem let the beasts fight amongs themselves.


So it depends who we wan to protect, the small % of people from Rapists and Murders who got convicted or other many many innocent Citizens?


Violence is not the answer, violence begats violence.

Islamic Sharia saves innocent Citizen and gives exemplary punishment to the those very few offenders so that it serves as a deterrent to others.

But, there might be people like you whp might want to forgive the offender, then that option is also there. But, it is not imposed by someone else on the Victims Family. But, a choice given to the Victims family.

Forgivness is all well and good but the problem comes when the crime is still raw in their lives, and they act on impulse and demande their execution ( we've all said thing in the heat of the moment and regreat them later) but maybe a year or two down the line they feel that perhaps life in prison would have been better, then it's too late. They both have ended up commiting henious acts.[/COLOR
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
But not every killer would go on to kill again. What about the people that have been put to death for non-violent crimes such as homosexuals ( not that I agree that homosexuality should be a crime) or the people that would ( if they had lived) been found innocent of the crime they were convicted of. The DP also inflicts suffering on the criminals family, who have done nothing to deserve their punishment. Children aslo routinley get executed, Would Allah condone that?

First Islam is very strict not to punish innocents , to free millions of criminals in Islam is better than punishing one innocent in Islam ....and no children is punished in islam On the contrary Islam save childhood and huamnity by setting the most just system in the world .....concerning homosexuality who is the one to decide what is crimes ......we the creatures (with our limited knoweldge) or the creator of the world ? In Islam it is not left for the people with their different desires to deside what is right or wrong? The creator of All who knows best decides what is good for humanity and what is harmfull.


67:14 Should He not know,- He that created? and He is the One that understands the finest mysteries (and) is well-acquainted (with them).

Translation of the meaning of Quran
 

abubaseer

tanzil.info
Staff member
Some Statistics:

Total Number of Murders in the Year 2002 in USA (Approx): 16000
Total Number of Rapes in the Year 2002 in USA(approx): 100,000


Total Number of Murders in the Year 2002 in Saudi (Approx): 202
Total Number of Murders in the Year 2002 in Saudi (Approx): 59


Saudi and other Gulf Countries have the Lowest Per Capita Rape rate in the World

In the U.S. there is a 50.8 percent chance that an arrest will be made if a rape is reported. Eighty percent of those arrested for rape are prosecuted and 58 percent of those prosecuted are convicted. If there is a conviction, there is a 69 percent chance that the perpetrator will be jailed.

In 2001, only 39 percent of rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. were reported to police. When unreported rapes are taken into account, it is estimated that only 6 percent of U.S. rapists (one out of 16) will ever spend a day in jail.

Total number of people executed in the year 2008 in Saudi (approx): 120


We have two choices:
1.Punish 120 Convicted criminal rapists and Murderes and save 100,00 from rape and 30,000 from murder.
2.Let 100,000 Innocents get raped and let another 30,000 get murdered and have mercy on Criminals

* the above # might be slighly diff for US, but it gives you the idea
Anyone practical person with atoms weight of brain would choose 1.

To Vegangoth, Don't turn this website into debating forum. This is for removing misconception about Islaam.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
People are suffering the consequenses of turing away from the Truth and following desires:

23:71 If the Truth had been in accord with their desires, truly the heavens and the earth, and all beings therein would have been in confusion and corruption! Nay, We have sent them their admonition, but they turn away from their admonition.

Translation of the meanings of Quran
 

vegangoth

Banned
First Islam is very strict not to punish innocents , to free millions of criminals in Islam is better than punishing one innocent in Islam ....and no children is punished in islam On the contrary Islam save childhood and huamnity by setting the most just system in the world .....concerning homosexuality who is the one to decide what is crimes ......we the creatures (with our limited knoweldge) or the creator of the world ? In Islam it is not left for the people with their different desires to deside what is right or wrong? The creator of All who knows best decides what is good for humanity and what is harmfull.


67:14 Should He not know,- He that created? and He is the One that understands the finest mysteries (and) is well-acquainted (with them).

Translation of the meaning of Quran

Many Islamic states might not execuate actuall childen but the case recintly in Saudi where 2 men were beheaded for crimes they did we they were 17 ges to show that leniency because of age is not always working.

Forgive me but I don't want to get into a discussion of homosexuality, one debate is enough for the moment lol.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
I live in Saudi Arbia and i did`t hear about the two men ...more. i am not an expert but i think that 17 old is considered man in Islam .......and I think that some media is trying spread lies about Islam ....don`t believe all that you hear.
 

vegangoth

Banned
I live in Saudi Arbia and i did`t hear about the two men ...more. i am not an expert but i think that 17 old is considered man in Islam .......and I think that some media is trying spread lies about Islam ....don`t believe all that you hear.

It wasn't against Islam ( not everything is against Islam you know) it was against the death penalty in a country that happens to have an Islamic goverment.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Yes I understand.....for sure that muslems are humans with all the faults of humans .......but some media concentrate on some issues trying to distort the true spirit of Islam ......I think that Islam through it`s teachings establish justice, brotherhood, love , Peace, happiness.....in hearts...Even the punishment in Islam is mercy if we look to all the corners. The person who is punishened for killing for example will be forgiven for his sins if he/ she repent (feel sorry within heart).
 

vegangoth

Banned
Yes I understand.....for sure that muslems are humans with all the faults of humans .......but some media concentrate on some issues trying to distort the true spirit of Islam ......I think that Islam through it`s teachings establish justice, brotherhood, love , Peace, happiness.....in hearts...Even the punishment in Islam is mercy if we look to all the corners. The person who is punishened for killing for example will be forgiven for his sins if he/ she repent (feel sorry within heart).

I agree with what you are saying BUT you say that Islam is a religon of peace( and I don't for one second belive that it isn't ) but what is peacful about killing people?
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
vegangoth need to discuss the basics before you go on to talk about Shariah. You may find a lot of Shariag does not make sense or ruthless cruelty since you don't believe in God and the hereafter.

We may agree or disagree about the suitability of a certain punishment. E.g. cutting hand for stealing. This crime has been punished by a mroe severe punishment that cutting hands. If you ask me I'd say that jailing someone for 150 years is more severe a punishment that cutting his hand. During the gold rush stealing was punished by death.

You need to show us where you start from. Do you believe in God as a creator or not ?

If you are not willing to have this debate then your starting point is flawed.
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
Sister,

The punishament for zinah (for married person) in Islam is death. This was even worse than zinah because it was rape. Rape is about asserting one's power over another, not about sex. It's akin to a rabid animal, the only cure is death. What would you think is acceptable punishment for a rapist? Because in the states a rapist is put in jail and then released after a while...then he rapes again...over and over. One way to insure he will not rape again is to kill him, I don't see a problem with this punishment both from an Islamic perspective or a judicial one. If this person had raped your mother or grandmother (God forbid!) would you feel so merciful towards this monster?

As far as the thieves go, they had stolen objects such as cell phones, radios, etc., It's not like they were stealing food to survive, they were stealing due to greed. In saudi, where stealing is punished by amputation, there is virtually no theft at all. You can leave a pile of gold in the streets and it will still be there tomorrow. While you feel the punishments are too harsh they were used in the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and in countries where it's not practiced anymore, the criminals rule the streets. At some point they need to be responsible for their own actions and we should direct our sympathies toward the victims, not the perpetrators.

Wasalaam
:salam2:

Mashallah sister, nice response. Personally I feel that it will make me feel better when a rapist is killed, because I hate dogs that abuse and assault women.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta Alla forgive us for our sins, and may he give the the power, strength, Eman, committment, and ability to defend and protect people, Ameen.
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
I agree with what you are saying BUT you say that Islam is a religon of peace( and I don't for one second belive that it isn't ) but what is peacful about killing people?
Hi Vegan. In Islam, killing an INNOCENT person is ALWAYS wrong. That is why the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) FORBADE the killing of non combatants when the Muslims would fight in battle or invade a tribe/city.

As for the punishment of stoning to death, many will find that it is justifiable, because let me ask you this qustion: what are two of the most sacred things to a women? her virginity and her body. When a man rapes a women, he takes away these two precious things that belongs to her, and they have committed an evil crime, which in ISLAM, is NEVER justifiable (because Islam is the ONLY religion that came down to liberate and propogate the rights of females).

And another thing is: that we Muslims KNOW that our religion is the Truth, that is IS from the Transcendent God/Being, so when his Prophet tells us that the only way that a person has a chance of having their sins forgiven is by being stoned to death for committing murder/rape/fornication, then which (TRUE) Muslim will not accept that?

Oh yeah, and I have a request to you. Since you're not Muslim, and you (hopefully) haven't ever seen this video (or the series); I wanted to know about what do you think from seeing this video, from a non Muslim's perspective?

[yt]fluiDCYCVhw[/yt]

Oh yeah, and I suggest you see this video too:

[yt]z9g97Dd6X9Y[/yt]
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
I agree with what you are saying BUT you say that Islam is a religon of peace( and I don't for one second belive that it isn't ) but what is peacful about killing people?

Dear Vega sorry for not answering but my net was suddenly off. First Islam encourges repentance and forgiveness on a wide scale ....and plant love for people and humanity ...it makes hearts of human work first .no muslem should like to kill even an ant but sometimes to stop more corruption (Like what is happening on our earth) to let the ill heartd think before they think of a crime to make justice on earth it is important to make sever punishment ,,,,,,i believe me if Islam is taught to humans as it is a practised with sincerity this kind of punshment with be in a very narrow scale ......Peace brotherhood and nobilty will within people will stop evil. Islam concenrate on building people .
 

abubaseer

tanzil.info
Staff member
It wasn't against Islam ( not everything is against Islam you know) it was against the death penalty in a country that happens to have an Islamic goverment.

The punishment is part of Islamic Shariah, so it is against Islam.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
It wasn't against Islam ( not everything is against Islam you know) it was against the death penalty in a country that happens to have an Islamic goverment.

India which happen to be secular/hindu majority state also have death penalty, introduced by the British, colonial monster. China which happen to be a communist country also do have death penalty. Saddam Hussein was hanged to death by US, another monster. British monster was silent about it. Why you single out Islamic countries?
 
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