Using the prayer beads

Abul Harith

Active Member
Staff member
Question:
What is the ruling on using the masbahah (prayer beads)?

Praise be to Allâh

Some scholars say that it is permissible to use the masbahah, but they say that it is preferable to do tasbeeh on one's fingers; others say that it is bid'ah (reprehensible innovation).

Shaykh al-Islâm Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Fataawa (22/187): "Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) nor his Companions used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: "Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak." Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones. Some people say that doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is makrooh, and some allow it, but no one says that tasbeeh with the masbahah is better than tasbeeh with the fingers." Then he (may Allâh have mercy on him) goes on to discuss the issue of showing off with the masbahah, saying that it is showing off with regard to something that is not prescribed by Islâm, which is worse than showing off with regard to something that is prescribed.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-'Uthaymeen (al-Liqa' al-Maftooh, 3/30) was asked whether using the masbahah for tasbeeh is bid'ah, and his reply was: "It is better not to do tasbeeh with the masbahah, but it is not bid'ah, because there is a basis for it, which is the fact that some of the Sahaabah did tasbeeh with pebbles. But the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) taught that tasbeeh with the fingers is better, as he said, 'Count with the fingertips, for they will be made to speak.' Doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is not haraam or bid'ah, but it is better not to do it, because the one who does tasbeeh with the masbahah has shunned something better. Using the masbahah may also be contaminated with some element of showing off, because we see some people carrying masbahahs that contain a thousand beads, as if they are telling people, 'Look at me, I do a thousand tasbeehs!' Secondly, those who use the masbahah for tasbeeh are usually absent-minded and not focused, so you see them doing tasbeeh with the beads, but their gaze is wandering all over the place, which indicates that they are not really concentrating. It is better to do tasbeeh with one's fingers, preferably using the right hand rather than the left, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) used to count his tasbeeh on his right hand. If a person counts his tasbeeh using both hands, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better to use the right hand only."

Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani said in Al-Silsilat al-Da'eefah (1/110), where he quotes the (weak) hadeeth "What a good reminder is the subhah [masbahah],"

"In my view, the meaning of this hadeeth is invalid for a number of reasons:

Firstly, the subhah [masbahah] is bid'ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him). It happened after that, so how could he (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) have encouraged his Sahaabah to do something that was unknown to them? The evidence for what I have said is the report narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid' wa'l-Nahy 'anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: 'Ibn Mas'ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, "You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified bid'ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him)!"' Its isnaad is saheeh to al-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Taabi'een.

Secondly, it goes against the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him). 'Abd-Allâh ibn 'Amr said, 'I saw the Messenger of Allâh (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) counting the tasbeeh on his right hand.' "

He also said (1/117): "If there is only one bad thing about the masbahah, which it is that it takes the place of the Sunnah of counting on the fingers, even though all are agreed that counting on the fingers is preferable, then that is bad enough. How rarely I see people counting their tasbeeh on their fingers!

Moreover, people have invented so many sophisticated ways of following this bid'ah, so you see the followers of one of the [Sufi] tareeqahs wearing the masbahah around their necks! Or some of them counting with the beads whilst talking or listening to you! Or another one - the like of whom I have not seen for some time - riding his bicycle through a street crowded with people, with the masbahah in one of his hands! They are showing the people that they are not distracted from the remembrance of Allâh for even an instant, but in many cases this bid'ah is a cause of their neglecting what is obligatory (waajib). It has happened many times - to others as well as myself - that when I greet one of these people with salaam, they answer only by waving and not by saying the words of the greeting. The bad results of this bid'ah are innumerable, and no one can say it better than the poet:

'All goodness is in following that which went before (the salaf)

All badness is in the innovations of those who came later.' "

And Allâh knows best.
 

Umm Aysha

*Strive for Jannah*
Asalaam Alaykum

Jazakallah khair for this....I use my fingers to do tasbeeh, but i have come across many people who use prayer beads...

Its best to do them on your fingers, as bro mu2min has stated, in the hadeeth it says: "Count on your fingers, for they will be asked, and will be made to speak."

wasalaam
 

Kayote

Junior Member
Salam

Thankyou for that. I do not think the second part I can agree with.

Yes, it appears to be better to do 'tasbeh' on fingers but that doesnt make it bidah if you do it with beads. Its all dependant on your intentions. Allah knows best.

But I now know that its far better to do tasbeh on fingers.

WaAliekum Assalam
 

Submitter

Junior Member
:salam2:

Jazakallah khair for this, I didn't know prayer beads could be thought of as innovation. I know some people use them just because they find it easier. But I have noticed that it has even become almost like a fasion accessory in some places, to always be walking around with a tasbeeh. I always found using my fingers easier anyhoo.

:wasalam:
 

Umm Aysha

*Strive for Jannah*
Wa alaykum salaam

Yes alot of ppl do use them jus to keep count....is that still wrong??

wasalaam
 

Ayep

New Member
If we look closely around us, the Buddhist monks also uses the prayers beads to keep count of their chants. This practice was probably started by the Buddhist religion. If so then who should we emulate our beloved prophet or the Buddhist monks?

I stopped using the beads after discovering about this from my brother. I feel this is bidaah because I started using it thinking that this was a Islamic practice. Now that I discovered the truth, I have abandoned that practice. My advice to all if we follow truth stay away from things that we might unconsciously give other people misinfomation about Islam.
 

q8penpals

Junior Member
In Kuwait, the men carry the beads around, but I would bet that most of the time, they are not using them for prayer. They just sit and flip them in their hands (it actually gets very annoying when I am doing a parent/teacher conference and the beads are jut clicking, clicking, clicking!). That is besides the fact that the beads held by many Kuwaiti men can be VERY expensive - some with actual gem stones - and they are obviously (in many cases) used as a fashion accessory! How can a man being using them to remember God when he is yelling at an Indian driver, staring at a woman, or fighting (in the case of the young men)?

Also, in Kuwait, I asked one time about the beads and was told "oh no, women do not use the beads!", which I thought was strange if the beads were supposed to be for prayer.

My husband has beads that he has gotten as gifts, but they sit in a little dish - he doesn't use them, he uses his fingers.

Lana
 

cadette

Junior Member
Granted it is better to use your fingers as doing so is following our prophet (SAW).

I mostly use the beads purely to keep count, most times when I am praying I have my 2 little kids playing around me and over me, as kids do, and its just so much easier to keep track of where I am on the beads.

During Ramadaan I also use the beads to keep track of where I am in Taraweeh salaat, is that then also wrong?
 

zarah

Islam
Staff member
Assalamu Alaikum

:salam2:

Jazzak-Allah khair for sharing really useful,I have a habit using prayer beads....:shymuslima1:

:wasalam:
 

west

Junior Member
I find using the tasbeeh much easier when my kid is jumping around me, on me and making a heck of a noise at times. No matter how hard you attempt to concentrate, trust me, a 2 year old can break it. Tasbeeh works for me especially as my intention is the most important thing:shymuslima1:
 

ademben

New Member
No there is no relationship between budism and tasbeh. I know an example from sahaba, but I don't have the source with me right now. I will write it when I get back to my books, in acouple of days.

I know for sure it is allowed to use it and many many scholars and ewliya used them for centuries.

Thanks
 

cadette

Junior Member
SHouldn't the important thing be that you actually making Zikr, remembering Allah and not how you counting it... beads, fingers, toes, lentils, beans, stones... honestly does it matter?
 

Ayep

New Member
No there is no relationship between budism and tasbeh. I know an example from sahaba, but I don't have the source with me right now. I will write it when I get back to my books, in acouple of days.

I know for sure it is allowed to use it and many many scholars and ewliya used them for centuries.

Thanks

Asalamualaikum brothers and sisters!

I guess i have no choice but to prove with photo and evidence that the prayer beads is a form of symbolism in Buddhist religion:
MongBud2.jpg
-Take a look at what this monk is holding in his left hand.


Here's another better photo:
http://www.photostogo.com/store/Chubby.asp?ImageNumber=868183

Here is a site selling Buddhist prayer beads.
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1045241513&CAT=1047836877&BACK=A0007A1B01045241513B1
Here's a Buddhist forum discussing about prayer beads:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/lofiversion/index.php/t20392.html

SOME OTHER TANTRIC IMPLEMENTS
An implement carried around by most Tibetans is the Mala or a rosary of prayer beads. These are not unlike the Christian rosary, or the beads used in Islam and Hinduism. They are used to focus ones' mind on the recitation of mantras, and to count them as part of a practice.
The story of the beads' origin is as follows: “Sakyamuni, the founder of Buddhism, paid a visit to king Vaidunya…Sakya directed him to thread 108 seeds of the Bodhi tree on a string, and while passing them between his fingers to repeat… ‘Hail to the Buddha, the law, and the congregation’… (2,000) times a day (Dubin)” (from this page not all the info here is correct though).
There are for example practices for which one is required to recite 100,000 mantras; obviously a simple counter is needed to keep track of this huge number. The Tibetan mala usually has at least 108 beads - this number probably originates to the 108 names for Hindu deities (incidentally, the same number is used in Islam to refer to God). See also an interesting Hindu article on the number of 108.
Tibetans often attach strings to their malas which have little sliding rings on them, these are to keep count of the number of malas; in such a way one can count up to 10,000 or even more on one mala.
(The word 'rosary,' which has obvious similarities to the mala, is said to have come from 'japa mala.' When Roman explorers came into India and encountered the mala, they heard 'jap mala' instead of 'japa mala.' 'Jap' means 'rose,' and the mala was carried back to the Roman Empire as 'rosarium,' and into English as 'rosary.')

source-http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/tantra_symbols.html

-From my knowledge, apart from Hinduism, Buddhism is the next oldest religion. All I am trying to prove: Is that beads are a symbol of Buddhism?Yes. Is it a symbol of Islam. Definitely not. Neither am I saying it is haram to use it.

In fact quoting from a member,
Shaykh al-Islâm Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Fataawa (22/187): "Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) nor his Companions used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: "Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak." Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones. Some people say that doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is makrooh, and some allow it, but no one says that tasbeeh with the masbahah is better than tasbeeh with the fingers." Then he (may Allâh have mercy on him) goes on to discuss the issue of showing off with the masbahah, saying that it is showing off with regard to something that is not prescribed by Islâm, which is worse than showing off with regard to something that is prescribed.

Allah knows best.

Wasalam
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
it does matter

SHouldn't the important thing be that you actually making Zikr, remembering Allah and not how you counting it... beads, fingers, toes, lentils, beans, stones... honestly does it matter?

yup it's important to make Dhikr, but think about it, on the DAY OF JUDGEMENT if you make Dhikr on your fingers, your fingers will speak up on your behalf when your mouth will be sealed. YOU CANNOT say the same of an inanimate object, it can't nor will ever speak, so yes, it does matter. A matter of Sunnah, reward, and importance.

Would you rather have just the reward of Dhikr, or follow the Sunnah, have a spokesman on the most difficult day and do Dhikr - recieving whatever reward you do by it?

:wasalam:
 

kish223

New Member
Which one do you prefer?

:salam2:

It seems that some of our brothers and sisters are insistent about the use of the beads.

A bad(or rather unencouraged action) habit should be forsaken when there is valid hadith/Quran that proves such. Humans are creatures of habit and thus it is comprehendable though not necessarily understandable at times to refuse/refute and even accept advice.

I remind my brothers and sisters that if something that is not done by the prophet(s.a.w) and is not from the Quran then we should not even approach the action at all. Truth is direct and though it offends us it is the right thing to do. It keeps us muslims on our toes and away from misdirection which inevitably leads to the hellfire. The solution to the issue of dzikir is that what's wrong with praising Allah one or ten times to many. Nor would the almighty penalise you for saying it less. I believe Allah is giving you a chance to praise him even more than you normally would if you had remembered. Every vowel and letter is rahamat and barakah.

A fine example in reference to the above issue is the subject of the 'Deceased visiting their kin during the month of Ramadan'. This was/is widely accepted in many societies and cultures. However, this is not true at all as pointed out by a muslim religious scholar here in my country. What is true is that, this so called belief is a proliferation of deity/idol worship and is a large part of greek,indian,chinese and many pagan cultures.

Greek mythology for example states many instances when a greek god wanders the lands in disguise or in their true form at times to assist though more likely to create mischief among mankind. Many references to Athena, Hermes, Apollo, Hera and so on.

I am not quoting the Quran and Hadith as 'brother ayep' and brother Moderator have done an excellent job given the facts from hadith and Quran.

Watawa Saubil Haq Qi Watawa Saubissab
 

Mashkuran

New Member
Salam 3lakum,
Thank you for sharing with use all the usefull points. I for one DO NOT use the beads i just dont like them... as i have seen hindus and other relegion use them, but my sister use the beads and i have tried to convince her not to but she continues to use them now i have a point to discuss with her atleast. But as said most os the arab men use them as ornerment and they are very very expensive gem stones and pure silver or gold some and they use them for show only.... but i have a habit to do tasbeeh while driving if i am not listing to quran or sira so instead i use a small one-33 beads that is in the car for me to count to 100 without diverting my concentration on the driving. thanks again jazaka allah kheir
 

ibnAbdullah87

Junior Member
Question:
What is the ruling on using the masbahah (prayer beads)?

Praise be to Allâh

Some scholars say that it is permissible to use the masbahah, but they say that it is preferable to do tasbeeh on one's fingers; others say that it is bid'ah (reprehensible innovation).

Shaykh al-Islâm Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Fataawa (22/187): "Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) nor his Companions used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: "Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak." Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones. Some people say that doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is makrooh, and some allow it, but no one says that tasbeeh with the masbahah is better than tasbeeh with the fingers." Then he (may Allâh have mercy on him) goes on to discuss the issue of showing off with the masbahah, saying that it is showing off with regard to something that is not prescribed by Islâm, which is worse than showing off with regard to something that is prescribed.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-'Uthaymeen (al-Liqa' al-Maftooh, 3/30) was asked whether using the masbahah for tasbeeh is bid'ah, and his reply was: "It is better not to do tasbeeh with the masbahah, but it is not bid'ah, because there is a basis for it, which is the fact that some of the Sahaabah did tasbeeh with pebbles. But the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) taught that tasbeeh with the fingers is better, as he said, 'Count with the fingertips, for they will be made to speak.' Doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is not haraam or bid'ah, but it is better not to do it, because the one who does tasbeeh with the masbahah has shunned something better. Using the masbahah may also be contaminated with some element of showing off, because we see some people carrying masbahahs that contain a thousand beads, as if they are telling people, 'Look at me, I do a thousand tasbeehs!' Secondly, those who use the masbahah for tasbeeh are usually absent-minded and not focused, so you see them doing tasbeeh with the beads, but their gaze is wandering all over the place, which indicates that they are not really concentrating. It is better to do tasbeeh with one's fingers, preferably using the right hand rather than the left, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) used to count his tasbeeh on his right hand. If a person counts his tasbeeh using both hands, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better to use the right hand only."

Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani said in Al-Silsilat al-Da'eefah (1/110), where he quotes the (weak) hadeeth "What a good reminder is the subhah [masbahah],"

"In my view, the meaning of this hadeeth is invalid for a number of reasons:

Firstly, the subhah [masbahah] is bid'ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him). It happened after that, so how could he (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) have encouraged his Sahaabah to do something that was unknown to them? The evidence for what I have said is the report narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid' wa'l-Nahy 'anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: 'Ibn Mas'ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, "You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified bid'ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him)!"' Its isnaad is saheeh to al-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Taabi'een.

Secondly, it goes against the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him). 'Abd-Allâh ibn 'Amr said, 'I saw the Messenger of Allâh (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) counting the tasbeeh on his right hand.' "

He also said (1/117): "If there is only one bad thing about the masbahah, which it is that it takes the place of the Sunnah of counting on the fingers, even though all are agreed that counting on the fingers is preferable, then that is bad enough. How rarely I see people counting their tasbeeh on their fingers!

Moreover, people have invented so many sophisticated ways of following this bid'ah, so you see the followers of one of the [Sufi] tareeqahs wearing the masbahah around their necks! Or some of them counting with the beads whilst talking or listening to you! Or another one - the like of whom I have not seen for some time - riding his bicycle through a street crowded with people, with the masbahah in one of his hands! They are showing the people that they are not distracted from the remembrance of Allâh for even an instant, but in many cases this bid'ah is a cause of their neglecting what is obligatory (waajib). It has happened many times - to others as well as myself - that when I greet one of these people with salaam, they answer only by waving and not by saying the words of the greeting. The bad results of this bid'ah are innumerable, and no one can say it better than the poet:

'All goodness is in following that which went before (the salaf)

All badness is in the innovations of those who came later.' "

And Allâh knows best.

I think these proofs brought to us by brother Mu2min is enough for us to know that it is a bid'ah. The Prophet never did or approved of it. Using it is done in an act of worship all acts of worship are haraam except what has been legaslated by Allah and His Messenger. Further more it is not none from the sahaba that they used it. You should take the statement of Ibn Mas'ood into account do we think we are better then the sahaba, they avoided it and seen it as a bid'ah.
 

ibnAbdullah87

Junior Member
sister Mashkuran there is no need to count to a fixed number, when you are doing it other then the times it should be done like after salah, etc. So you can make the dhiker with out the beads and how will you convince your sister while you yourself us it while driving the car.
 

Mahmoud1

New Member
Dear Brothers and Sisters.. It becomes an innovation or BIDAA if it replaces a "EBADA" or an act of worship. So we if know that the prophet ( PBUH ) has only used his fingers t count and to do Zikr, so why then innovate?
 
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