WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
What is the truth?

Assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters and peace to all non muslims!

I would like to know what your views are about the following question:

What is the standard (criterion) for knowing the truthfullness of an idealogy or belief?

By what standard do you decide that a system of belief or an idealogy is right/wrong, true/false?

Is it one or more of the following facts that proves that an idealogy or belief is true or false or is it something else? Present your opinion with reason please:

Divinity (miracles...)
The number of its followers
How powerful/weak its followers are
How scientific it is
How logical it is
The type of individual/community it produces (its fruits)
A combination of the above
Other standards

I had to change the old title "what do you think?" as that did not make my point very clear.

wassalamu ala man-ittabal huda
 

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
Is my question too phylosophical?
So many views, but not even one response. Come on guys. I would like to know about what you think. Just speak from your mind.

Wassalam
 

lions_den1

Ahle Sunnah wal Jama
My Aqeedah

"What is the standard (criterion) for knowing the truthfullness of an idealogy or belief?"

To put it simply- i beileve that anything that is in line with the Quran and the authentic Sunnah (based on reliable hadith) and the understanding of the Sahabah (ie. Rightly Guided Califs) is the truth.

You know when something is falsehood- like people who claim to bring harm and benefit or claim to know the unseen, because things thing clearly contradict the Quran
 
M

Moadeeb

Guest
I'd say it's a combination of how logical and scientific it is. Logical and scientific in Islam would mean that the claim is supported by Quran and Sunnah in a logical way. Also, if scientific facts agree with what the claim says then that would be an extra asset. The number of Kuffar was bigger than the number of Muslims in many countries which means that numbers are not the key issue here. Miracles could sometimes be tricks or magic, although it helps to have some. How powerful or weak the followers are doesn't seem to be a good criterion since the so called "Islamic" countries belong to the third world countries these days. The followers also might not adhere to what the belief dictates. Concerning the community it produces, this option is close to how powerful the followers are. So, I think that one should look at any claim logically and check the proofs of it with no bias.
 

Libinette

Umm Zubayr
There you go, Moadeeb took the words out my mouth, indeed i think it is a combination of many criterias, which if you look deeply only Islam answers :) alhamdoulilah
 

Nazihah

Be A Stranger
I'd say it's a combination of how logical and scientific it is. Logical and scientific in Islam would mean that the claim is supported by Quran and Sunnah in a logical way. Also, if scientific facts agree with what the claim says then that would be an extra asset. The number of Kuffar was bigger than the number of Muslims in many countries which means that numbers are not the key issue here. Miracles could sometimes be tricks or magic, although it helps to have some. How powerful or weak the followers are doesn't seem to be a good criterion since the so called "Islamic" countries belong to the third world countries these days. The followers also might not adhere to what the belief dictates. Concerning the community it produces, this option is close to how powerful the followers are. So, I think one should at any claim logically and check the proofs of it with no bias.

Agreed upon.
 

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
Moadeeb brother mashallah, well thought answers. I know there are brothers and sisters who have more to say about this.

Wassalam
 

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

alhamdulilah
And our survey says..!

WaAlaikum Salaam, Brother,

It's an interesting question you've posed. My first response is that there are no universal standards, rather a series of understandings that each individual chooses to make.

Many people have chosen to approach this question from many different perspectives, which is why I think that we have so many faiths across this world that hold so many devout followers. For an example, from the perspective of the athiest, he/she will percieve that there is no "Higher Power" or God because they have not experienced any significant proof to support that. This person will use their own understanding of science to support their claim, and use the verbal standard of, "Well if there is a God, let Him show Himself or Herself to me now, here! Let It pick up my mug, so that I may have proof!" When the mug doesn't move, this is percieved as evidence to disprove God's existance. When the athiest reads the Bible or Qu'ran, he/she will find perceived contradictions to the "real world" as further support of their disbelief: "If God is so loving, when then does He let people get raped and murdered horrifically" or "If Allah commands you not to kill yourself, why then do you hold suicide-bombers in your ranks?" I believe that these people are blinded by their own presumptions, their own understandings and education; Unable or unwilling to concider this universe beyond their own perceptions.

My own standards have been quite different, of course. =) I started by looking around me in this world and finding those people who I thought seemed to have the most admirable traits. At age 7, I decided that I would become a Christian and hold Jesus as my rolemodel, because he succeeded in this early standard where my teachers, parents, sports icons, movie stars had failed. As I got older, I used the standard of "you judge a tree by its fruit", as taught by Jesus in the Bible. This allowed me to experience the perception that people who believe in God All-Mighty are better off in most respects than those who believe in nothing, or in whatever. I could see the better attitude, coping skills, outlook on life/death of believers compared to disbelievers - So I continued on the path of belief.

As my comprehension skills improved with age, I started to take into greater concideration the consequences for each message, sermon, belief system of the various faiths. I started to judge between what makes sense and what doesn't, what is within the realm of possiblity and what is not. Later on, I began to test my understanding through prayer, practice, and conversation. Alhamdulilah, I experienced having prayers answered in direct as well as indirect ways, learned from different life experiences, and percieved that I was on the right track.

In my late teens, I began to look very carefully at the world around me, and just how that all fits within my own percieved standards of my Christian faith. I concidered the history of various peoples, how they succeeded or failed, and why - and understood that God had a reason for each consequence, sometimes obscure but that didn't hold me back. By this point, I had developed Faith and Trust, and would pray and think about all sorts of issues, often being inspired to understand in a certain way.

Once the fundamental frame-work of all this was in place, experience became my guiding light. My conscience was very strong, and I could sense when things were on the right tracks or not. I relied on feelings of guilt, pleasure, connection, anxiety to hone my spiritual skills. If I made a mistake or sinned, I would appologize or repent, and work from a different angle so that I would overcome that blunder. Trial and error came into heavy influence.

Shortly before reverting to Islam, I was using all of these skills that I had developed since age 7 and was searching for the purist understanding: That perfect faith and truth and knowledge that miraculously allowed Jesus to walk on water. I began examining closely my own Chrstian understandings and looking hard for inconsistancies, for hypocracy in my church, for mistakes in translations and into the history of that faith and that of the Bible. Forcing myself to concider the doctrines with a critical eye, I began to see more and more flaws in what I was doing. I would cry and yell and whisper and sing for God to help guide me, I would take extensive walks so that I could pray out in the wilderness alone with God...

Sometime around then, the Lebanon Crisis of '06 erupted, and Isreal bombed that beautiful country back to the stone age over 2 kidnapped soldiers. The response was so disproportionate, so disgusting, that I was compelled to look into the history of the Middle East. That's when I discovered a connection and respect for Islamic teachings, when I started in a new direction and explored Islamic content (especially here at TTI), and when God guided me to embrace Islam: The purist understanding that I had longed to experience. Muhammad PBUH is the finest rolemodel I have ever come across, the Qu'ran holds so much more in so much less than the Bible - and there are no inconsistancies. Everything makes sense. Even the percieved conflicts have reasonable explanations, Alhamdulilah, for those with Faith. I love everything about purist Islam, and am constantly humbled to be even a microfraction of a part of this perspective, experience, way of life.

I know that this response may not be in the format you were looking for brother (point form?), but this is the best way I knew how to express what I would call "standards" for the validity of religions. I've made bold what I concider keywords that might qualify as my own percieved standards. I leave you in the capable hands of my Lord and your Lord, the Lord of all that is true and has benefit: Allah SWT.

Asalaamu Alaikum
 

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
Waalaikum assalam dear brother Brandon Al'Abraham!

Subhanallah, praise be to Allah swt the most high.
Had I not asked this question, I may have never read your beautiful reply.
It was very much within the format of my point of view. When something is written from heart, from the inner soul and based on real experience, that always appeals to the reader.


Mashallah, you covered the subject so nicely that you may have not left much for others to mention:

a rolemodel of admirable traits
judge a tree by its fruits
looking at the consequences
what makes sense
within the realm of possibility
answered prayers
learning from experience
observance
history
inspiration
reaction of conscience (feelings of pleasure, guilt...)
testing (trial and error)
critical look
compulsion by circumstances

and one thing more which you utilised in your search for truth, but did not mention it by name was an open heart

Barakallahu feek dear brother
 

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

alhamdulilah
Asalaamu Alaikum, Brother Bawar,

Alhamdulilah, surely all praises are due to God alone. =)

Thank you for the kind words, and for giving me the oppourtunity to relive and reflect on this long journey I've taken. InshaAllah it will serve as a timely reminder as to why I must continue forward, and where I have come from.

May Allah bless you this day, InshaAllah. =)

Asalaamu Alaikum
 

Mai moslemah

New Member
Assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters and peace to all non muslims!

I would like to know what your views are about the following question:

What is the standard (criterion) for knowing the truthfullness of an idealogy or belief?

By what standard do you decide that a system of belief or an idealogy is right/wrong, true/false?

Is it one or more of the following facts that proves that an idealogy or belief is true or false or is it something else? Present your opinion with reason please:

Divinity (miracles...)
The number of its followers
How powerful/weak its followers are
How scientific it is
How logical it is
The type of individual/community it produces (its fruits)
A combination of the above
Other standards

I had to change the old title "what do you think?" as that did not make my point very clear.

wassalamu ala man-ittabal huda


First thing is what is their concept of God...this is the most important thing to me

then there holly book

then the preservation of this book

then the biography of their messenger

Most of the religion failed in my point of view in the first step...There is no religion which give a pure concept of God and glorified God like Islam did
 

the only truth

striving for jannah
salam

i think in terms of non-muslims and why they find islam when they search for the truth.....is the fact that it has logical understanding...i mean in islam everything makes sense...there is an answer for everything...

wassalam
 

uskupi

Junior Member
assalam alaikum ...the moust important criterion for one doctrine is that .....,that doctrine must never be in contradiction with its self
 

Munaqaba23

Junior Member
Divinity (miracles...)
The number of its followers
How powerful/weak its followers are
How scientific it is
How logical it is
The type of individual/community it produces (its fruits)
A combination of the above
Other standards

wassalamu ala man-ittabal huda

Assalamu alaikum

Interesting question. Of course all of us Muslims follow Islam because we believe that it is the right religion. But I think you didn't want to ask about that. And faith can't always be explained by science etc...

When I started to get interested about Islam, I found it very logical. There was an answer for everything. :allahuakbar:
I have also lost my "faith" in science, I have realized that science is from people, and people make mistakes. It is interesting to see that in Europe many people have science as their "religion".
I mean, they seem to think that what ever science gives us, it is automatically the truth.
But, as we have seen in history, science has made big mistakes. And even now, last year scientist might have said the opposite than this year about some matter. So why some people don't see this? Why they believe the word of humans, instead of the word of Allah? :girl3:
 

uskupi

Junior Member
assalam alaikum ...the moust important criterion for one doctrine is that .....,that doctrine must never be in contradiction with its self[/QUOTE assalam alaikum ....i have studied ,budism,hinduism,shinto,judaism,cristianity...and only in the QURAN (islam) have never finde contradiction
 

IslamIsLight

Islam is my life
Staff member
salam aleikum
MashAllah beautiful replys
I cant express myself that much:)
but when I read your question only one thought came to my mind
For me the belief is very simple and logic and makes sense .
Very simple
Its a belief in ONE
sorry I cant express what I mean more :)
wasalam
 

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
Assalamu alaikum all!

first, I would like to start with the sister Jannah03. after reading your reply, i went back to read my post and i could not help, but to laugh. yes you are right. it doesn sound like a question from a test ,hahahahahaaa

some more beautiful replies that i learned from:

sister aisha1114 says it is belief in THE ONE

brother uskupi says it should not contradict itself

sister Munaqaba says it should have the ability to satisfy the hunger of an enquiring soul.
I also infered from her reply that perhaps she wants to say that science deals with matter and belief is an issue that deals with spirituality and it can only be verified by the spiritual side of human which is "conscience" or its reaction (logic)

sister the-only-truth says it should appeal to the heart and mind

and last, but not least, sister Mai-moslemah says
Most of the religion failed in my point of view in the first step...There is no religion which give a pure concept of God and glorified God like Islam did
which has been one of my most favourite

Jazakallah khair to all of you

wassalamu alaikum
 
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