What is the deal with Shia's?

PeacefulHumanity

:)Smile! It's Sunnah
Can someone give me a brief overview of who they are? Are they considered Muslim? Will they go to Hell? Is Allah (SWT) angry with them? Why are they different? Why are they wrong (or right, if that is your opinion)?

I wanted to ask my mom about this when I was little, but she told me not to ask anyone because it brings out people's hatred or something.
 

karu-89

Junior Member
Asslamaliekum warahmatullahi wabrakatu,
This should answer your question Inshallah:

[video=youtube;kJA6Pmxz8hI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJA6Pmxz8hI[/video]

&:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4GzCQt6pRg
well if such is the case then why the hell the so called saudi king allowed Ahmadinejad to enter Makkah and Madina to attend islamic conference why did the scholars of Haramain didnt protest against this decision of so called saudi king
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
well if such is the case then why the hell the so called saudi king allowed Ahmadinejad to enter Makkah and Madina to attend islamic conference why did the scholars of Haramain didnt protest against this decision of so called saudi king

That conference is basicly political, meeting with politicians (presidents, kings). If scholars would protest allowing some of its members entering to Makkah, then OIC should just keep they conference in some other city/country.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Originally they are just a political movement. They claimed they support Ali r.a. but they are the one killed his son Saidina Hussein r.a (not Yazid as it was believed). “Shia” is big subject and long story about them. When ask about them to my sheikh, (this sheikh stayed and studied in Bagdad until US invasion and he was one of those arrested and tortured by US in Abu Gharib) the sheikh simply said “Shia is another religion and Islam is another religion”. He knows shia better than me and rest of us because at Bagdad he is directly expose with them.

Regarding whether they will go to hell or not, this is not our business, let Allah determine. There are 73 sects in Islam which only one will enter paradise, if look at it 72 sects are majority. Who are those 72 sects that claimed to be Muslims? This is what we have to think and ensure we are not one of those 72.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
well if such is the case then why the hell the so called saudi king allowed Ahmadinejad to enter Makkah and Madina to attend islamic conference why did the scholars of Haramain didnt protest against this decision of so called saudi king

This is a good question brother. I was thinking also, how come shia can perform hajj if they are not Muslims? I know few munafiqun, to me he is munafiqun because he openly reject Islamic law as irrelevant to today's world. All my sheikh said any Muslims reject Islamic law for whatever reason, he / she is kaafir. But these munafiqun are freely performing hajj and umrah. "Nothing seem to happen to them". About why the king allowed Iranian President to enter Makkah, well I don't think there are any scholars today who are dare to question their kings. Shia are broken into many denos, what I know Zaidiyah shia is acceptable but not rafidhis. So, you can't say all Shia are kuffars and you can't say all are Muslims either. Allah knows best.

Btw, pls avoid using phrases such as "why the hell".. this is unIslamic. My apology if I wronged you.
 

Townie

Junior Member
Regarding whether they will go to hell or not, this is not our business, let Allah determine. There are 73 sects in Islam which only one will enter paradise, if look at it 72 sects are majority. Who are those 72 sects that claimed to be Muslims? This is what we have to think and ensure we are not one of those 72.
On another thread it was written in response to my question regarding whether non-Muslims could enter paradise, "The Quran mentions righteous Jews and Christians of the past that have attained Paradise by following their divine scriptures to a T. Regarding your comment about those who are never exposed to the truth, Allah states in the Quran that He will not punish a people if they have not received the message."
This seems to contradict your assertion that only 1 out of all the Muslim sects can attain paradise. After all, if you are born into the 'wrong' sect and all your family and friends are a part of it too, it must be very hard to leave. But if by chance you are born into the 'right' sect you have a big advantage.
Doesn't sound very just...
 

dunno

Junior Member
On another thread it was written in response to my question regarding whether non-Muslims could enter paradise, "The Quran mentions righteous Jews and Christians of the past that have attained Paradise by following their divine scriptures to a T. Regarding your comment about those who are never exposed to the truth, Allah states in the Quran that He will not punish a people if they have not received the message."
This seems to contradict your assertion that only 1 out of all the Muslim sects can attain paradise. After all, if you are born into the 'wrong' sect and all your family and friends are a part of it too, it must be very hard to leave. But if by chance you are born into the 'right' sect you have a big advantage.
Doesn't sound very just...

salam

Chrisitians and Jews will not enter paradise this is obvious and it is not a disputed matter.

People who did not recieve the message of the prophet will they enter heaven or hell? This is for allah to decide not for us.

As for the hadith and the shias. The prophetpeace be upon him identified those 73 sects as his ummah. Meaning all of those sects have tawheed. All of those sects will go to heaven eventually. However, they will go to hell first to cleanse their sins whether these sins are issues in aqeedh or other things. Only one sect will go to heaven directly, meaning that there is only 1 aqeedh that is correct, and it's followers will go to heaven directly ( provided their sins do not outweigh their good deeds) without going to hell inshallah.

Now, shias are not considered part of the 73 sects, because there are not from the ummah of the prophet as they are mushriks, as their aqeedh is false. Shia scholars will of course go to hell as they are 100% kuffar. However, some scholars say that common shias who did not get the message of tawheed and correct islam are treated like unbelievers who did not get the message, as in we they in allah's mercy.

Please make sure you know the difference between isma'li shias (their numbers are in thousands now, extincting ) and Jafari shias ( biggest shia group, those are in Iran and lebanon and iraq.) Those 2 are mushrik. However, Zydi shias in Yemen are not, infact many of their scholars have converted to sunni and have written books about it, their aqeedh is very different then other shias as they dont curse the sahabah or anything.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
This is how you respect the holy book

[video=youtube;E2yVdR-mk_w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2yVdR-mk_w[/video]
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
salam

Chrisitians and Jews will not enter paradise this is obvious and it is not a disputed matter.


2.62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
 

Townie

Junior Member
salam

Chrisitians and Jews will not enter paradise this is obvious and it is not a disputed matter.

People who did not recieve the message of the prophet will they enter heaven or hell? This is for allah to decide not for us.

As for the hadith and the shias. The prophetpeace be upon him identified those 73 sects as his ummah. Meaning all of those sects have tawheed. All of those sects will go to heaven eventually. However, they will go to hell first to cleanse their sins whether these sins are issues in aqeedh or other things. Only one sect will go to heaven directly, meaning that there is only 1 aqeedh that is correct, and it's followers will go to heaven directly ( provided their sins do not outweigh their good deeds) without going to hell inshallah.

Now, shias are not considered part of the 73 sects, because there are not from the ummah of the prophet as they are mushriks, as their aqeedh is false. Shia scholars will of course go to hell as they are 100% kuffar. However, some scholars say that common shias who did not get the message of tawheed and correct islam are treated like unbelievers who did not get the message, as in we they in allah's mercy.

Please make sure you know the difference between isma'li shias (their numbers are in thousands now, extincting ) and Jafari shias ( biggest shia group, those are in Iran and lebanon and iraq.) Those 2 are mushrik. However, Zydi shias in Yemen are not, infact many of their scholars have converted to sunni and have written books about it, their aqeedh is very different then other shias as they dont curse the sahabah or anything.
This is very confusing. Are you saying that no-one knows which of the 73 sects is right? And those that are unlucky enough to have been born into, or choose, the wrong sect will spend time in hell?
I assume that if I was to get an answer from a shia they would say that they were going to paradise and all non-shias would go to hell.
So my question is, where do you get your certainty from? You are all reading the same book and coming to well over 73 different conclusions, only one of which is right!
I understand that God moves in mysterious ways, but is there no easier way to work out what he wants us to do and believe?
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
This is very confusing. Are you saying that no-one knows which of the 73 sects is right?
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/90112

And those that are unlucky enough to have been born into, or choose, the wrong sect will spend time in hell?
Depends on whether the truth reached them or not.

I assume that if I was to get an answer from a shia they would say that they were going to paradise and all non-shias would go to hell.So my question is, where do you get your certainty from?
Christians & Jews will say the same...
How to get certainty?
1. Ask Allah (swt) for guidance. Guidance is in hands of Allah, whosoever Allah (swt) guides no one can lead astray and whosoever he allows to go astray (because they deliberately don't want any guidance) then no one can guide them. When we recite surah al fatiha we ask for Alllah (swt) guidance::

Guide us to the straight path -The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. [Quran 1:6-7]


2. Be Sincere.
3. Do little research.
4. Use some common sense.

wallahualam.

You are all reading the same book and coming to well over 73 different conclusions, only one of which is right!
Quran & Sunnah should be accompanied with understanding of Salaf (first 3 generation of muslim) because prophet (pbuh) told us they are the best.


I understand that God moves in mysterious ways, but is there no easier way to work out what he wants us to do and believe?
Follow Quran and Sunnah according to understanding of salaf and do not innovate anything into this perfect deen of Allah (swt). What innovators do is they reverse engineer deen => they will seek excuses of justifying their practices from Quran and Sunnah instead of deriving what is to be practiced from it!


2.62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
Asslamaliekum warahmatullahi wabrakatu,
Please refer to tafseer of the verse.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2912

On another thread it was written in response to my question regarding whether non-Muslims could enter paradise, "The Quran mentions righteous Jews and Christians of the past that have attained Paradise by following their divine scriptures to a T. Regarding your comment about those who are never exposed to the truth, Allah states in the Quran that He will not punish a people if they have not received the message."

Sister was referring to to those people who at the time of Moses (pbuh) & Jesus (pbuh) actually followed them, for they taught none other than tawheed. See:: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2912


This is a good question brother. I was thinking also, how come shia can perform hajj if they are not Muslims? I know few munafiqun, to me he is munafiqun because he openly reject Islamic law as irrelevant to today's world. All my sheikh said any Muslims reject Islamic law for whatever reason, he / she is kaafir. But these munafiqun are freely performing hajj and umrah. "Nothing seem to happen to them". About why the king allowed Iranian President to enter Makkah, well I don't think there are any scholars today who are dare to question their kings. Shia are broken into many denos, what I know Zaidiyah shia is acceptable but not rafidhis. So, you can't say all Shia are kuffars and you can't say all are Muslims either. Allah knows best.
Agreed!!! We shouldn't make takfeer on anyone unless we are 100% sure that he is committing kufr or our takfeer might return back to us.
Regarding Scholars I'll say its not their fault cause final authority is King not council of Scholars & we aren't supposed to rebel against those who among authority among us unless they are imposing Shirk and Kufr on us.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/128453
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/9911
 

Townie

Junior Member
Depends on whether the truth reached them or not.

But with so many choices and so many external pressures, how could they be expected to recognise it? Every one of the sects, and of course, everyone who follows a religion, believes that they are right and going to paradise and everyone else is going to hell. To be condemned to hell for any amount of time when one has striven to follow the truth is not just or fair.

How to get certainty?
1. Ask Allah (swt) for guidance.
2. Be Sincere.
3. Do little research.
4. Use some common sense.
Presumably everyone can do this, but there are still 73 sects, so these guidelines are not effective.

Sister was referring to to those people who at the time of Moses (pbuh) & Jesus (pbuh) actually followed them, for they taught none other than tawheed. See:: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2912
Well if she was, she was wrong, because she said they "...attained Paradise by following their religious scriptures to a T", and neither of the books about them were written till after their deaths. Her reference was clearly to modern day Jews and Christians. Don't worry, it's okay to disagree and there may not be a right answer...
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
To be condemned to hell for any amount of time when one has striven to follow the truth is not just or fair.
One who is sincere in seeking truth will not turn away out of arrogance once truth has been presented to him with clear evidences, one who does so is deserving of punishment and and one who really did not receive the message will be tested on day of judgement inshallah (or whatever Allah wills). As simple as that. Read Surah Ghafir (40) and ponder over it.


Presumably everyone can do this, but there are still 73 sects, so these guidelines are not effective.
Everyone can inshallah but unfortunately everyone does not. Lemme Ask you did you try sincere asking God to guide you to truth?


Well if she was, she was wrong, because she said they "...attained Paradise by following their religious scriptures to a T", and neither of the books about them were written till after their deaths. Her reference was clearly to modern day Jews and Christians.
When you go to a class, do you take notes? Why? because they are important to you as you want to revise later. Its simply illogical assumption on your part to claim none of scriptures were written till the death of prophets. They surely would have written it down somewhere. Thing is is they deliberately corrupted it later. If you still disagree you can ask the sister to clarify what she meant.

May Allah (swt) guide you to truth.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
On another thread it was written in response to my question regarding whether non-Muslims could enter paradise, "The Quran mentions righteous Jews and Christians of the past that have attained Paradise by following their divine scriptures to a T. Regarding your comment about those who are never exposed to the truth, Allah states in the Quran that He will not punish a people if they have not received the message."
This seems to contradict your assertion that only 1 out of all the Muslim sects can attain paradise. After all, if you are born into the 'wrong' sect and all your family and friends are a part of it too, it must be very hard to leave. But if by chance you are born into the 'right' sect you have a big advantage.
Doesn't sound very just...

Townie, I was not even born into Islam let alone into a sect. The message reached me, I used my brain to think whether why am I worshipping a cow? So I became Muslim. So long a Muslim follow Qur'an and Sunnah, he is in the right path. Not that difficult. My statement is bit general in the sense, I said is not my business to determine who will go to hell, it is Allah's absolute power. If you ask me, will you Townie go to hell if you disbelieve, I will say not my business. If you say, if Mr X (regardless who X is) worship a cow and died as cow worshipper, will he go to hell, I will say yes. Because that's the rule, but specifically will Townie (which is you) go to hell, I dare not to say yes. I never know, maybe you will say the shahadah (testimony of faith) without my knowledge and before your demise, then you may go to heaven. Theoritically, yes those belief in other than Islam will go to hell. God will ask me, why did you confirmed Townie will go to hell? I will not be able to answer. Then God may say, since you confirm something which is My business, now you go to hell (astafirullah, may Allah forbids). So I will not confirm any person in specific will go to hell but in general all disbelievers will to go hell. I hope Allah will guide you, ameen.

And those Muslims deviated from the original teachings, depend how serious it is. If they going to the hell, they may still enter paradise once their sins are cleaned by hellfire. For those never receive the message, example those living in deep jungle, no tv, internet access no contact with people. They will not go to hell, again this as per the rules. But specifically if you ask one Mr Jungle, I will not say he will go to hell but I will ask him to accept Islam because Islam will be his safety net. Hope answer your question.
 

Townie

Junior Member
When you go to a class, do you take notes? Why? because they are important to you as you want to revise later. Its simply illogical assumption on your part to claim none of scriptures were written till the death of prophets. They surely would have written it down somewhere. Thing is is they deliberately corrupted it later.
You are just wrong I'm afraid. The first writings about Moses were written down centuries after he was alive. The first about Jesus, the letters of St Paul, were written after his death, and Paul never met Jesus. The earliest Gospel (St Mark) was written around 70 CE, about 40 years after Jesus died.
The scriptures about Moses and Jesus vary according to the viewpoint of those who wrote them. It is fairly easy to spot the false bits, such as the virgin birth of Jesus, but these weren't always added later.
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
You are just wrong I'm afraid. The first writings about Moses were written down centuries after he was alive. The first about Jesus, the letters of St Paul, were written after his death, and Paul never met Jesus. The earliest Gospel (St Mark) was written around 70 CE, about 40 years after Jesus died.
The scriptures about Moses and Jesus vary according to the viewpoint of those who wrote them. It is fairly easy to spot the false bits, such as the virgin birth of Jesus, but these weren't always added later.

You aren't still getting my point.
When we say Allah (swt) gave Jews and Christians a scripture, doesn't mean He gave them gospel of mark or luke. It means Allah (swt) revealed Torah on Moses (pbuh) & Injeel on Jesus (pbuh) these are the scriptures which we are talking about. Whosoever among them followed them were upon straight path.
 

Ahsen

Junior Member
Why are we making something so easy to understand, more complicated. Those jews, christians who accepted&followed the message of Allah will go to jannah. The main issue is not the label of the sect or the jew,christian thing. Regarding 73 sects,which one will go to jannah. It's very clear. Those who follow the teachings of Quran and sunnah will go to jannah. Whereas those who have made false gods,worship humans and jinns,we all know where they will go.

The Holy Quran and hadith are still here as they were some 1400 years ago. So just follow them and you will be on the right path. Why make more labels. I can understand when someone says Sunni/shia. But when someone says things like salafi,wahhabi, and I don't know what else. Like some people call others kafir because he shaves his beard or because he is not as religious as he is. Why adopt such behaviour? Are we generating love or hatred? Then we wonder why people run away from us. Make your mind clear people. And that can be done by learning the quran and hadith.

Why can't we judge our ownselves before judging others.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
You are just wrong I'm afraid. The first writings about Moses were written down centuries after he was alive. The first about Jesus, the letters of St Paul, were written after his death, and Paul never met Jesus. The earliest Gospel (St Mark) was written around 70 CE, about 40 years after Jesus died.
The scriptures about Moses and Jesus vary according to the viewpoint of those who wrote them. It is fairly easy to spot the false bits, such as the virgin birth of Jesus, but these weren't always added later.

Bible (mean list of books in Greek) is not the original Torah or Injeel revealed to Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thank you anyway for agreeing our view on Bible.
 
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