Why am I not a Muslim to you?

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
:salam2:

I think we are talking about the indopak Muslims.We have some of those in South Africa and yes,i hate to admit this but some of the complaints that we have had is that in a jamaat gathering some women have a no entry group.In that group you will get the rich who thinks that the sun shines only for their group.I suppose they have their heads buried in the sand.They probably think that Islam belongs to the Indians and Pakistanis only.I hope i am wrong .

Hmmmm, lol

How did you guess when I live in the United states.

Sorry to offend anyone
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
:salam2:


The Messenger of Allah said: "It is of the signs of The Hour that the man would petition Salãm upon another, not petitioning Salãm upon him except due to acquaintance.
Reporters
'Al-`Adawee said it was comely due to another, and that it was reported by Imãm 'Ahmad on page 405 of volume 1.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Wa alalikum salaam,

You're right, I do remember one time addressing an egyptian muslim as "sister" and she laughed and said, "we are not sisters hahhaha", I never spoke to her again. We had an arabic class together at a university.

:salam2:

That sounds strange as many muslims I meet daily in my work usually call me they sister - both females and males.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
:salam2:

I think we are talking about the indopak Muslims.We have some of those in South Africa and yes,i hate to admit this but some of the complaints that we have had is that in a jamaat gathering some women have a no entry group.In that group you will get the rich who thinks that the sun shines only for their group.I suppose they have their heads buried in the sand.They probably think that Islam belongs to the Indians and Pakistanis only.I hope i am wrong .

Discrimination exists in all factions. There isn't just *one* particular racist group. Every ethnicity has individuals who discriminate amongst them.

Limiting discrimination to Muslims of one specific ethnicity is an unfair generalization to make and you do yourself a disservice with such narrow-minded views.
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
:salam2:

I think we are talking about the indopak Muslims.We have some of those in South Africa and yes,i hate to admit this but some of the complaints that we have had is that in a jamaat gathering some women have a no entry group.In that group you will get the rich who thinks that the sun shines only for their group.I suppose they have their heads buried in the sand.They probably think that Islam belongs to the Indians and Pakistanis only.I hope i am wrong .

:salam2:

In my case I was not talking about Indo-Paks but a particular ethnics group from one of the African nations. I won't specify which because that would not serve a purpose but it is clear that racism and exclusivity exists in all areas of our ummah.

Now my in-laws are Pakistani and they are slowly accepting me into their fold. But honestly I feel I will always be somewhat on the outside of their family as they simply can't get past my white skin. Their loss, not mine.
 

helpinghumanity

Junior Member
:salam2:

Ok. I am trying to understand. I know the angels respond when humans refuse to respond but it still bothers me. Ok well in the future, I ll be say to myself maybe they didn't hear me....

Wa-alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah

Think the other way. Probably they replied back in their heart
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
Discrimination exists in all factions. There isn't just *one* particular racist group. Every ethnicity has individuals who discriminate amongst them.

Limiting discrimination to Muslims of one specific ethnicity is an unfair generalization to make and you do yourself a disservice with such narrow-minded views.

I completely agree that racism and STEROTYPES are found within all groups however, this incident seems to occur a lot particularly with those of the indopak culture and I am wondering if it is educational issue (something taught in schools) I have read racist things in textbooks especially about Native Americans and blacks/Africans living in the United state

Or is culture: maybe a particular race is scarce in that region so ignorance about the race or group is common.

I am not here to offend but where I live it's common for ppl not attend a particular masjid if the demographics has a high indopak administration because those not apart of that culture often feel excluded and not wanted.

I started this thread hoping to learn the psychology of why certain group may not view another as apart of

For example some view the Nation of Islam members not Muslims
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
There is a crack,crack in everything, thats how the light gets in!

:salam2:

You offered a salaam a perfect offering... Sometimes sense has to sink in, it takes time....
*today i happened to find a board that said the below highlighted line. *

"There is a crack, a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in." - Cohen


"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
That's how the light gets in.
That's how the light gets in."
~Leonard Cohen​

It seems he also said -
"There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in". It is not a very happy thought to believe that something will always have to break, to open a crack, in order to the light gets in...​

Patience sister, continue to be what you are, let not the wrongs , make you do wrong...
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
I completely agree that racism and STEROTYPES are found within all groups however, this incident seems to occur a lot particularly with those of the indopak culture and I am wondering if it is educational issue (something taught in schools) I have read racist things in textbooks especially about Native Americans and blacks/Africans living in the United state.

Or is culture: maybe a particular race is scarce in that region so ignorance about the race or group is common.

The incident seems to occur alot particularly with those of the indopak culture because they are the largest Muslim immigrant group in the United States. There isn't a state where they didn't settle in and because they're coming from the largest Muslim country in the world as well as another large country, there are alot of them.

Regarding the discrimination about South Asians, I will be the first to admit that it exists. Alot of it is due to former British colonialism and idealizing the "white, blond, and blue-eyed individual" as the superior race. However, this was a double edged sword, as that same image was also designated the poster child image for the term "foreigner". Therefore, light skin is prized in that part of the world because A. it is not the norm and B. it is wrongfully associated with the idea of beauty and perfection. However, there is also a close-mindedness because culture comes first for many in that part of the world and so they want to be able to have their cake and eat it too. Basically, they usually go for light skinned women as long as they're still the same ethnicity but going for a light-skinned woman who is not of the same ethnicity equates to them losing their precious culture and embracing a foreign way of life.

And that's where the conflict arises.

So it's not to say that a particular race is scarce in that region and that's what's leading to ignorance. It's anything that threatens the culture.

Secondly, and this is something shameful, when Pakistan and India were one country, their ideals pretty much merged. So Hindu mentalities were adopted by Muslims and some Muslim mentalities were adopted by Hindus. Hinduism endorses a very exclusive caste system to pretty much "keep their people in check". They range from the most exclusive and privileged to the most taboo and unwanted. Suffice to say it is a HUGE source of racism and discrimination. Unfortunately, the Muslims learned to adopt this ignorant mentality as well and it migrated with many of them when they left for Pakistan.

Another fact is a sheer lack of ignorance and loss of adhering to true Islamic values. Lord knows there's alot of moral corruption in that part of the world but alhamdulillah true 'ilm of the Deen is spreading and people are starting to see that fine line between innovation and Islam.

Finally, much of it is due to illiteracy. South Asia boasts some of the highest poverty and illiteracy rates in the world and as a result, people are not able to learn their religion properly as well as broaden their horizons through a sound education in order to properly embrace the diversity Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala created. Narrow-minded thinking and no education usually make for a very small box to live in. Plus, due to the poverty, many have not seen the outside world and know nothing beyond their own society.

I am not here to offend but where I live it's common for ppl not attend a particular masjid if the demographics has a high indopak administration because those not apart of that culture often feel excluded and not wanted.

It is what it is and it is unfortunate. For those racist South Asian Muslims that insist on discriminating against fellow Muslims, they are responsible for tarnishing the image of South Asian Muslims.

But if you move to another state, you'll soon see that you'll have the same complaint about Arabs. And if you move somewhere else, you'll have the same complaint about African American Muslims.

Point being, you're being exposed to discrimination within the South Asian community. However, you've only experienced one sect of discrimination. It exists in other factions as well and regarding all of them, they do not speak for the rest of us. I'm sure you know that already and I hope I gave you some insight into why many South Asians behave the way that they do.

Irrespective of their reasoning, it is not right for them to treat you or any other Muslim the way that they do. Know that by initiating the salam you are better than them and like a brother said earlier, they will be asked about it. Racists and ignorants usually end up choking on their own ignorance in the end. I say let them drown in it no matter where they're from. Just don't go down with them.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,


It is written Where are the seekers...here we are..here we are.

Our bearings change when we realize it is Allah that we serve. He knows I am a Believer. And the rest is easy.
 

lostlilly07

striving 4 Firadous
The incident seems to occur alot particularly with those of the indopak culture because they are the largest Muslim immigrant group in the United States. There isn't a state where they didn't settle in and because they're coming from the largest Muslim country in the world as well as another large country, there are alot of them.

Regarding the discrimination about South Asians, I will be the first to admit that it exists. Alot of it is due to former British colonialism and idealizing the "white, blond, and blue-eyed individual" as the superior race. However, this was a double edged sword, as that same image was also designated the poster child image for the term "foreigner". Therefore, light skin is prized in that part of the world because A. it is not the norm and B. it is wrongfully associated with the idea of beauty and perfection. However, there is also a close-mindedness because culture comes first for many in that part of the world and so they want to be able to have their cake and eat it too. Basically, they usually go for light skinned women as long as they're still the same ethnicity but going for a light-skinned woman who is not of the same ethnicity equates to them losing their precious culture and embracing a foreign way of life.

And that's where the conflict arises.

So it's not to say that a particular race is scarce in that region and that's what's leading to ignorance. It's anything that threatens the culture.

Secondly, and this is something shameful, when Pakistan and India were one country, their ideals pretty much merged. So Hindu mentalities were adopted by Muslims and some Muslim mentalities were adopted by Hindus. Hinduism endorses a very exclusive caste system to pretty much "keep their people in check". They range from the most exclusive and privileged to the most taboo and unwanted. Suffice to say it is a HUGE source of racism and discrimination. Unfortunately, the Muslims learned to adopt this ignorant mentality as well and it migrated with many of them when they left for Pakistan.

Another fact is a sheer lack of ignorance and loss of adhering to true Islamic values. Lord knows there's alot of moral corruption in that part of the world but alhamdulillah true 'ilm of the Deen is spreading and people are starting to see that fine line between innovation and Islam.

Finally, much of it is due to illiteracy. South Asia boasts some of the highest poverty and illiteracy rates in the world and as a result, people are not able to learn their religion properly as well as broaden their horizons through a sound education in order to properly embrace the diversity Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala created. Narrow-minded thinking and no education usually make for a very small box to live in. Plus, due to the poverty, many have not seen the outside world and know nothing beyond their own society.



It is what it is and it is unfortunate. For those racist South Asian Muslims that insist on discriminating against fellow Muslims, they are responsible for tarnishing the image of South Asian Muslims.

But if you move to another state, you'll soon see that you'll have the same complaint about Arabs. And if you move somewhere else, you'll have the same complaint about African American Muslims.

Point being, you're being exposed to discrimination within the South Asian community. However, you've only experienced one sect of discrimination. It exists in other factions as well and regarding all of them, they do not speak for the rest of us. I'm sure you know that already and I hope I gave you some insight into why many South Asians behave the way that they do.

Irrespective of their reasoning, it is not right for them to treat you or any other Muslim the way that they do. Know that by initiating the salam you are better than them and like a brother said earlier, they will be asked about it. Racists and ignorants usually end up choking on their own ignorance in the end. I say let them drown in it no matter where they're from. Just don't go down with them.

Thank you for teaching the psychology of this or that particular group. I have to admit I don't have to many Asians as friends so there is so much I wish to know about them and would rather converse with them about it then to read about it and it could be false.
 

ximkoyra

Junior Member
Well, I addressed a middle east decent guy as "brother", he smiled and just called my name. I gave him salam, he did not reply my salam. Then we followed up our friendship via e-mail, again I greeted him with salam and address as "brother", he did not reply in the same manner. Then I realised, he is a shia.

I'm guilty of this (hah). I just never felt comfortable with it. I mean, I have brothers and I call them by their names. If you would consider me a brother/sister in Islam, then why would not call me by my name?

I don't call my brothers "brother" or my cousins "cousin", so why would you insist on it in the mosque. One time someone got angry at me before for not referring to him as 'brother' and I told him the same thing, in that I don't call my real brothers "brother" so why do you insist on being called 'brother' if you really consider me that way?

And as for salaam, I used to respond to everybody before I realized that I was often being mocked. Now if I receive a salaam outside of a masjid or some Muslim setting, I will always give them a hi in return unless I know them. A lot of times, people have used a salaam to get favors/money from me at work and I just got tired of it. I'm sorry if I've ever offended anybody, but it just really hurts to have your own beliefs used to mock and take advantage of you. I can totally see how someone, especially a convert, can take offense to this type of response.


And just FYI, I'm South Asian descent who was born/raised in the US.
 

bmw540i

Junior Member
Discrimination exists in all factions. There isn't just *one* particular racist group. Every ethnicity has individuals who discriminate amongst them.

Limiting discrimination to Muslims of one specific ethnicity is an unfair generalization to make and you do yourself a disservice with such narrow-minded views.






Yes my sister you are correct.Discrimination exists in all factions.I used the indo- pak as i am Indian and if anyone should be offended it would be me because they are my own,but i know my people and i identify my culture.As my culture is Indian i would naturally identify with the Indian culture.If you know the Indian culture we got it from the Brahman's the high and mighty of India,s Hindu.The most racist on earth.We love name calling and racial profiling. Religion of Islam well that we worry when we sit on the ja namaaz .True or false?
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
:salam2:

I have hardly ever encountered people having other ethinic,but then the idea of discrimination is very much prevalent everywhere.Even within family many cousins that you don't know,group together and avoid you and you feel like an outsider.Especially when there is a clash of ideologies.So it exists even within a single big family,world is a much bigger thing.Then there are always angels returning our salam and we do get hasanat for every good deeds we do,so there is nothing negative in this.The only loss is of that person who didn't return salam.Perhaps it might make them think,if not at that time,then maybe later..

:wasalam:
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
:salam2:

Sister, don't think much about it. Don't let this influence you negatively. That's very important at personal level.

There is a big Chapter called -- Group Behavior, conformity to group-norms and the "heights of us (in-group) v/s them (out-group) thought trap". Often, at core its powered by a mindset of exclusion, lack of humility, an absence of tolerance, and individual failure to control negative emotions. A person who discriminates, is a less happy person, a source of rejection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_behaviour

Commercial organizations spend a lot to understand this, because it does eat into profits. By this, we can realize the impact of this fragmenting mindset on society. Ex:
http://www.simplyquality.org/Imran-QMS-Behavior.pdf
(See Page 2, a model of human attitude)

My opinion is, under influence of learning (region/race/education) discrimination arises from individual or from the group. Not all gain positively by studying the background to such discrimination; its like seeking an explanation for their behavior, and explanation most of times is wasted energy. Often overwhelmed by situation and colored by emotion, these explanations do take a dangerous turn in our psyche and it becomes a justification for discrimination. It deprives us a chance of breaking free from the discriminating mindset, another slippery slope.
 

Lena

Junior Member
:salam2:


My beloved sister in Islam. Remember, just remember that everything we do is for the sake of Allah alone and to seek his pleasure. Nothing else matters. If you do your part, then Allah is pleased by you. Leave the rest to Allah. And Allah knows best! :)

:wasalam:
 

helpinghumanity

Junior Member
For example some view the Nation of Islam members not Muslims

Assalamo alaikum wa rahmatullah

I am surprised to see **Some** rather than **Most or all**

What do you know about them? Are you a convert/revert (You don't have to answer this question)? To cover this topic **Nation of Islam** we need another thread.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
Assalamo alaikum wa rahmatullah

I am surprised to see **Some** rather than **Most or all**

What do you know about them? Are you a convert/revert (You don't have to answer this question)? To cover this topic **Nation of Islam** we need another thread.
:wasalam:
'Nation Of Islam', when I was exposed to those words for first time (a year or two before), I sort of felt a -- Notion of Islam v/s Nation of Islam ...
 

xAllahKnowsBestx

Junior Member
Assalamu 'alaykum sis.

It's really sad how some Muslims do that! I feel so bad when do they don't return the salaams and just stare at you like you're an alien. But like everyone else said, just remember, you're doing this for Allaah and not ignorant and judgmental people. :)
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baarakaatuh,

Quite frankly I'm posting just to say salam and get an answer. 'Cos here I don't get many replies. I'm too stupid or too stubborn to give up anyway. I just tell myself, I didn't hear the reply she whispered.
 
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