Why are we so peaceful?

MehmetHilmi

Junior Member
Selamun Aleykum everyone,

Currently the issue of ISIS has become a central issue of discussionamong many. My thread is not about them though. It's about us. Why do we condemn them when past Muslim Empires have commited greater crimes in their histories? For example I love the Ottomans but the more I read about them the more I find out that there were instances of grand scale massacres and injustices.

This is not only for Muslims. Non Muslim nations in the past were probably more violent than Muslim ones. Yet today, our hearts burn at the death of even one Palestinian. In reality there have been much more violent occupiers than Israelis. Less people are dying by war in general.

But what confuses me is that we say that we Muslims were always peaceful and our sahaba were good examples and we don't condone violence. Our understanding of peace is new however and wasn't around at the time of the sahaba. The sahaba engaged in warfare and spilled blood. So I can draw two conclusions from all of this:

1. Islam is meant to be reinterpreted throughout different periods of time to suite the events, ideas, and movements of that time.

2. Everything must remain the same as the sahaba and we pacifists all got it wrong and we have to impose jizya, fight the unbelievers, and establish sharia by force on every corner of earth.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the observations. But the two ideas above are huge clashes I see within Modern day Islamic thought.

Allah knows best.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
Selamun Aleykum everyone,

Currently the issue of ISIS has become a central issue of discussionamong many. My thread is not about them though. It's about us. Why do we condemn them when past Muslim Empires have commited greater crimes in their histories? For example I love the Ottomans but the more I read about them the more I find out that there were instances of grand scale massacres and injustices.

This is not only for Muslims. Non Muslim nations in the past were probably more violent than Muslim ones. Yet today, our hearts burn at the death of even one Palestinian. In reality there have been much more violent occupiers than Israelis. Less people are dying by war in general.

But what confuses me is that we say that we Muslims were always peaceful and our sahaba were good examples and we don't condone violence. Our understanding of peace is new however and wasn't around at the time of the sahaba. The sahaba engaged in warfare and spilled blood. So I can draw two conclusions from all of this:

1. Islam is meant to be reinterpreted throughout different periods of time to suite the events, ideas, and movements of that time.

2. Everything must remain the same as the sahaba and we pacifists all got it wrong and we have to impose jizya, fight the unbelievers, and establish sharia by force on every corner of earth.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the observations. But the two ideas above are huge clashes I see within Modern day Islamic thought.

Allah knows best.

Much of what you are saying is true. I also agree that past muslim empires - Ottomon, Persian, Mughal -- have been very violent and treated non-muslims terribly. I still cringe at the Armenian "genocide" - or whatever label you choose to put on it. Yes Synagogues and Churches stayed intact, but non-muslims were treated like second-class citizens.

All I can say is that on an individual level most of us are peace-loving muslims who try to live the spirit of Islamic gentleness. On a "mass" level, on a political level, muslims have huge problems.

None of this justifies Gaza, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, Burma etc. But I think we need to critically view our stance on what constitutes proper Islamic behaviour. Why are muslims burning churches in Pakistan? Why are muslim fathers and brothers beating and killing their daughters and sisters? Why are muslims beheading non-muslims? Why are muslims engaging in violent protests in Egypt where women's lives are in danger? Why don't muslim nations run to the assistance of war-torn regions like Syria?

I also find it very interesting that Muslims obtain their information about the non-muslim culture via the media, t.v. shows, tabloids etc. But when non-muslims obtain their information about muslims from the same source, we are very quick to criticize.

Do unto others as you would do unto yourself. Lets be leaders in humanity and justice, just as the Quran instructs us to.
 

Munawar

Striving for Paradise
Please don't forget that the World War I and the World War II were not fought among Muslims. If there were no nuclear weapons then today we might be having 6th or 7th World War.
So those who boast about the current peace in Europe / Christian World, they need to thank the Atom bomb for it.
Also Muslims did not create Israel. Muslims did not slaughtered the native people of Americas and Australia.
Much of the chaos and violance today in the Muslim world has been imported and is manufactured.
But still I would say that it is Muslim Ummah's fault that this is happening. And let me say this that this will not go on forever. Correction will come soon. InshaAllah.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Please don't forget that the World War I and the World War II were not fought among Muslims. If there were no nuclear weapons then today we might be having 6th or 7th World War.
So those who boast about the current peace in Europe / Christian World, they need to thank the Atom bomb for it.
Also Muslims did not create Israel. Muslims did not slaughtered the native people of Americas and Australia.
Much of the chaos and violance today in the Muslim world has been imported and is manufactured.
But still I would say that it is Muslim Ummah's fault that this is happening. And let me say this that this will not go on forever. Correction will come soon. InshaAllah.
 

MehmetHilmi

Junior Member
Please don't forget that the World War I and the World War II were not fought among Muslims.

But they were. The reason the last Caliphate fell was because it entered WWI and allied with the Germans. In the same war, Arabs also fought against the Turks in the Arabian Peninsula. Syria, Iraq, and Palestine fell to British forces. We fought in WWII but to a lesser extent.

I really think that my point is that every nation has a violent history because violence is human nature. My problem is with people who want to bring back those eras.
 

zaman-gm

Junior Member
2. Everything must remain the same as the sahaba and we pacifists all got it wrong and we have to impose jizya, fight the unbelievers, and establish sharia by force on every corner of earth.

Salam,
I didn't get it. Sensitive issue though.
 
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hopeeternal

Junior Member
Very interesting topic,, every day I ask myself where is the peace of Islam , I cannot accept we are supposed to kill and destroy in the name of Islam
It makes me question my understanding of Islam ,if so many can be convinced violence is the way,then am I wrong to think Islam is a religion of peace

This caused many sleepless nights
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
I also agree that past muslim empires - Ottomon, Persian, Mughal -- have been very violent and treated non-muslims terribly.

Now this part interest me; as these were muslim empires, did they really even followed islam when they conqured new areas and had their wars? Or were they only empires whose conquered new areas. Or did they behave by similar way like any other empires? After the time of the prophet, how many rulers and empires have really followed islam in all what they are doing/have done in the war times?

I am not sure if I expressed my idea by the right way - sorry my sometimes-bad-English. :redface:

Thanks for this thread - it is good to think and discuss also about kind of matters.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
Now this part interest me; as these were muslim empires, did they really even followed islam when they conqured new areas and had their wars? Or were they only empires whose conquered new areas. Or did they behave by similar way like any other empires? After the time of the prophet, how many rulers and empires have really followed islam in all what they are doing/have done in the war times?

I am not sure if I expressed my idea by the right way - sorry my sometimes-bad-English. :redface:

Thanks for this thread - it is good to think and discuss also about kind of matters.

They would be Muslim empires in the same way Saudi Arabia or Pakistan are Muslim countries.

In other words, non-secular and the rulers follow Islam.

No one follows Islam in the true sense. There is never and never will be an "Islamic utopia". But in all these Muslim-led empires, the non-Muslims were treated differently by the rulers than the Muslims. It was not always fair or pretty. We are far better off living in a society that allows us to practice our religions in the way we choose, without impunity, so long as we don't hurt anyone or try to change anyone.
 
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