Working Women: early Muslim examples

[Mairo]

BarakAllahu feek for the awesome post! The knowlege here serves to benefit many who are lacking in this subject...

:salam2:

my dear sister : )
I am very glad you found the post to be beneficial. Yes, my intention in postng this information is to share regarding some of these little known inspirational stories that we might all learn from, and in the process hoping to also combat some of the ignorance and closemindedness that exists with respect to this subject as well. Not at all my intention or hope that someone might use these stories to try to justify working in haraam environment or earnings from haraam sources, astangfirullah. I take my deen seriously and would never suggest or try to imply such a thing.

It is important in Islam for both men and women to know how to guard themselves and act modestly. I think Aapa's comments in particular really highlight a woman's perspective in the working world very well.

Yeah- women have RIGHTSSSS
I think if any brother has a problem with the women not taking care of the house and working outside- both of them should divide the responsibilities.
The last part about "with the Prophets approval" I think means that the Prophet said that it's obviously allowed. Not that people are allowed to STOP women from doing work.
Salam

Yes, I agree with you sister - the last part about the Prophet's approval signifies that obviously he condoned women working and protected their right to do so, not that it should be allowed to stop women from working. It is not good to take something that is halaal, such as working & earning money from halaal sources, and try to turn it into something haraam. Islam protects a woman's right, among other things, to own property and work to earn her own money if she wishes.

We are all unique and each have different contributions that we will make with our lives. This should be respected and we should encourage each other to be the best we can be, with respect to our families, communities, work, etc. As it turns out, (which is also illustrated in some of the examples posted in this article) in some cases it is a woman who is the better candiate than a man for a certain job or position.

Wasalaam

PS: Brother Ayman, I will try to look up the article again and include the full website address, inshaAllah

 

[xAllahKnowsBestx]

JazakAllahu khayr! I love this thread! ^__^

 

[strive-may-i]

...

 

[MuslimShadow]

Assalamo alaikum.

Nice and informative thread.

I think most people DO prefer non-working women.But I strongly believe an intelligent woman can manage both home & work really well.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

:salam2:

We need to look at the default position and duties of both genders in Islam, firstly for men who are the designated caretakers of women:



Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. (4:34)

And secondly women are the designated homemakers:



And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. (33:33)

http://muslimmatters.org/2010/06/30...ran-commands-muslim-women-stay-in-your-homes/

When there is a reason (financial issues etc) then a woman is permitted to work provided that the laws of Hijab are fulfilled but this isn't the default position of Islam and may :Allah: grant all our Sisters good, kind, loving and caring husbands, fathers, brothers and sons so they can put their feet up and enjoy life :tti_sister:

 

[Precious Star]

:salam2:



When there is a reason (financial issues etc) then a woman is permitted to work provided that the laws of Hijab are fulfilled but this isn't the default position of Islam and may ::

The reason for working is to earn money. Why else would a woman work for reasons other than her financial security?
We are living in an era where there is a global recession, divorce rates are at their highest, and the family structure is such that men no longer financially support women. How many men do you know who provide financially for their brotherless nieces? Most men get married and don't have enough money to maintain their sisters. And it is not the practice for sisters to live with their married brothers anyway. What about all those women who don't have brothers?

What about women who never work, but they get divorced and then have to support themselves but because the have no work history they can't find a job? Or if the do find a job, it is one that is unbecoming to a woman, such as a fast food restaurant or cleaning lady?

It is best if women attain high educational pursuits, and had some job experience. Otherwise, it is a harsh world out there. Men might be ordered to take care of women, but realistically that only happens to married women (and even so, many men who immigrate to western countries for marriage will expect to be financially supported by the wife and her family). Single, brother less, widowed, divorced....all these women are at a severe disadvantage.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

The reason for working is to earn money. Why else would a woman work for reasons other than her financial security?
We are living in an era where there is a global recession, divorce rates are at their highest, and the family structure is such that men no longer financially support women. How many men do you know who provide financially for their brotherless nieces? Most men get married and don't have enough money to maintain their sisters. And it is not the practice for sisters to live with their married brothers anyway. What about all those women who don't have brothers?

What about women who never work, but they get divorced and then have to support themselves but because the have no work history they can't find a job? Or if the do find a job, it is one that is unbecoming to a woman, such as a fast food restaurant or cleaning lady?

It is best if women attain high educational pursuits, and had some job experience. Otherwise, it is a harsh world out there. Men might be ordered to take care of women, but realistically that only happens to married women (and even so, many men who immigrate to western countries for marriage will expect to be financially supported by the wife and her family). Single, brother less, widowed, divorced....all these women are at a severe disadvantage.

:salam2:

The default position in Islam is for women to stay at home. Broken marriages, abusive relationships, extraneous circumstances can't be used to turn the Book of :Allah: & Sunnah upside down however they will deal with the cases of our Sister in individuality and of course allowances have to be made and we make dua for all our Sisters and everyone in the Ummah (general and specific) and when her circumstances change then she will revert back to the default injunctions of the Book of :Allah: & Sunnah.

Whether she lives in Karachi or New Jersey, Pakistani or African-American it makes no difference.

 

[Precious Star]

:salam2:

Whether she lives in Karachi or New Jersey, Pakistani or African-American it makes no difference.

Assalamalaikum,

it does matter if she lives in Karachi or New Jersey, or if she's Paksitani or African-American.

Because the family structures that financially support women are different in Karachi, Pakistan compared to New Jersey USA.

A woman has to have an education and work history in order to support herself -- before or after marriage. I agree that during marriage if the husband earns enough, then she might not need to, but if they are supporting in-laws and have a disabled child, then she might have to work. But she shuold have an education and work experience for her own security.

Look, as a man you simply do not know -- it is a harsh world, especially for women. How long did it take you to find a job? Have you ever lost your job or been laid off? Financial insecurity is deadly, and when you are a woman it can be even worse.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalamalaikum,

it does matter if she lives in Karachi or New Jersey, or if she's Paksitani or African-American.

Because the family structures that financially support women are different in Karachi, Pakistan compared to New Jersey USA.

A woman has to have an education and work history in order to support herself -- before or after marriage. I agree that during marriage if the husband earns enough, then she might not need to, but if they are supporting in-laws and have a disabled child, then she might have to work. But she shuold have an education and work experience for her own security.

Look, as a man you simply do not know -- it is a harsh world, especially for women. How long did it take you to find a job? Have you ever lost your job or been laid off? Financial insecurity is deadly, and when you are a woman it can be even worse.

:salam2:

Would you please point out as to where I have stated that she has to say uneducated? In addition what is the basis of your argument that she has to have work experience (without a reason)? Is your argument based on Islam or your personal feelings?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,


Brother,

In the west we have what were known as the pink industries. Low paying servers jobs..housekeepers, waitresses, sales clerks. These jobs pay so little that they are really supplemental incomes. They do not sustain a household.

If a woman finds herself after divorce to becoming financially independent it is a very rough road. Often, as one ages you will not be hired. You can have a Phd but if you stayed home to raise kids for fifteen years you will not be hired. Women who marry and do not use the skills they have acquired through education are despised. Many have the perception that they wasted their time. When you return to the industry your skills are weak. The employer always wants to know what can you do for me. One indicator of what you can do for me is work history. The employer has nothing to compare a potential employee who has no work history. You take another who has worked and it becomes a no-brainier.

What Sister Precious Star and I are attempting to do is to paint a realistic picture of what happens to many sisters should they find themselves in such positions. This is real.

Yes, the way of the Sunna is the correct way. But, we are in real life nasty how did I get myself into this position. To tell a woman oh well you got yourself into this and you are out of luck..by the way let me go pay attention to the civil strife in some crazy nation..well you are pushing her into the arms of kufr and their social structure.

So a sister who has not worked finds herself down and out in New Jersey. She has no option but to go to social services. She has to interact with males who ask the most personal questions. It takes two days to recover from the interviews. She may get food stamps and enough cash to last two days. She has to constantly seek aid. She has to go through a series of classes to re qualify for food stamps. Bills keep mounting up, her children suffer.

Yes, it is an ugly picture. And what is missing in this picture is what Malcolm X warned us about. The break-up of the family. The absent male figure. The bottom line is the children. They miss out.

This may seem insignificant to one outside the west but it is a phenomena that is a reality. We have single sisters with children that are not supported by the community. And to say that oh well it is not he responsibility of the father to support them is callous. Who do you suggest supports these sisters.We have no system of social services. Our communities have closed their eyes.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,


Brother,

In the west we have what were known as the pink industries. Low paying servers jobs..housekeepers, waitresses, sales clerks. These jobs pay so little that they are really supplemental incomes. They do not sustain a household.

If a woman finds herself after divorce to becoming financially independent it is a very rough road. Often, as one ages you will not be hired. You can have a Phd but if you stayed home to raise kids for fifteen years you will not be hired. Women who marry and do not use the skills they have acquired through education are despised. Many have the perception that they wasted their time. When you return to the industry your skills are weak. The employer always wants to know what can you do for me. One indicator of what you can do for me is work history. The employer has nothing to compare a potential employee who has no work history. You take another who has worked and it becomes a no-brainier.

What Sister Precious Star and I are attempting to do is to paint a realistic picture of what happens to many sisters should they find themselves in such positions. This is real.

Yes, the way of the Sunna is the correct way. But, we are in real life nasty how did I get myself into this position. To tell a woman oh well you got yourself into this and you are out of luck..by the way let me go pay attention to the civil strife in some crazy nation..well you are pushing her into the arms of kufr and their social structure.

So a sister who has not worked finds herself down and out in New Jersey. She has no option but to go to social services. She has to interact with males who ask the most personal questions. It takes two days to recover from the interviews. She may get food stamps and enough cash to last two days. She has to constantly seek aid. She has to go through a series of classes to re qualify for food stamps. Bills keep mounting up, her children suffer.

Yes, it is an ugly picture. And what is missing in this picture is what Malcolm X warned us about. The break-up of the family. The absent male figure. The bottom line is the children. They miss out.

This may seem insignificant to one outside the west but it is a phenomena that is a reality. We have single sisters with children that are not supported by the community. And to say that oh well it is not he responsibility of the father to support them is callous. Who do you suggest supports these sisters.We have no system of social services. Our communities have closed their eyes.

:salam2:

My foundations for Islam are neither El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (RA) nor the prevalent (and dire) circumstances of American Muslim women rather my premise is the Book of :Allah: and the noble Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad and it has ample room for exceptions (when tragedy strikes) as already highlighted but the exceptions cannot be turned into the default. I never advocated keeping Muslim women ignorant to begin with so don't know how and why that charge is being leveled against me to begin with. But pursuing a Career and mixing with members of the opposite gender isn't Islam and not allowed under normal circumstances.

So far our respected Sisters haven't highlighted the Islamic reasons for their position so it appears to be a personal view and I know that the conversation will now deteriorate into Imams not helping and communities not offering assistance and as has been pointed out that it is a separate and distinct issue.

If someone has Islamic evidence for wanton free-mixing and pursuance of Careers by Muslim women on the premise that one day they may need it I am all e-ears

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Your response is what I expected. Nothing less.


You need to address the sisters here who are physicians, teachers, IT workers and lawyers. They work in environments that free-mix. What is your response to the sisters on TTI? They choose to do this?

What about all the sisters who attend college in the West? The classes are never one sex. Or the college professors who teach? What would you tell them to do? Where is the father in this? Where are the brothers who are supposed to enjoin good and forbid evil?

Or even this whole blogging thing? Is this not on the verge of haraam?

Women use public transportation and have to sit next to men or stand and take the physical contact? What are your solutions to this?

I mean no disrespect whatsoever. I find it rare that a brother even takes the gumption to discuss women's issues. The issues of divorce and work are not limited to American women. It also speaks volumes of the kind of brother that seeks his fortune here. It is in the West. Many of the situations I discuss are the FOB's. They come here and in the blink of an eye the brother has gone crazy. What do you say to him? I have seen sisters who do not speak English left with divorce papers they can not understand. Some sisters do not even have the papers to keep them in the country. They are then forced to work as an illegal at the mercy of a brother...I question what is the difference between this state and slavery?

 

[Precious Star]

:salam2:

Would you please point out as to where I have stated that she has to say uneducated? In addition what is the basis of your argument that she has to have work experience (without a reason)? Is your argument based on Islam or your personal feelings?

ARe you serious?

My "argument" is based on real world experiences. In order to find a job, you need work experience. Those aren't my personal feelings, brother.

I'm wondering how long you have been in the work force, how many job interviews you've had, whether you have been fired, had to find a job again, know what its like to meet living expenses on a budget....

If a woman suddenly becomes in need of income, she can't just hop out of bed and abracadabra she has a well-paying job. She has to prepare a c.v. that lists all of her employability credentials, and that includes both education and experience. Of course, if she is 21 years old then the job experience is limited, but I am not talking about youth, i am talkign about grown, adult women over the age of, say, 25.

 

[Precious Star]

:salam2:

My foundations for Islam are neither El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (RA) nor the prevalent (and dire) circumstances of American Muslim women rather my premise is the Book of :Allah: and the noble Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad and it has ample room for exceptions (when tragedy strikes) as already highlighted but the exceptions cannot be turned into the default. I never advocated keeping Muslim women ignorant to begin with so don't know how and why that charge is being leveled against me to begin with. But pursuing a Career and mixing with members of the opposite gender isn't Islam and not allowed under normal circumstances.

So far our respected Sisters haven't highlighted the Islamic reasons for their position so it appears to be a personal view and I know that the conversation will now deteriorate into Imams not helping and communities not offering assistance and as has been pointed out that it is a separate and distinct issue.

If someone has Islamic evidence for wanton free-mixing and pursuance of Careers by Muslim women on the premise that one day they may need it I am all e-ears

Astaghfirullah.

Women who work are not engaged in "wanton free-mixing". Are men who engage in work outside the home also invovled in "wanton free-mixing"?

I think i can safely inform you brother Tic Tac Toe that the muslim women that I know who work outside the home are not wanton. They are respectable muslim women.

The things I hear on this site sometimes....

 

[Gupta]

I stopped working because I did not appreciate a male worker attempting to sit alone with me in the coffee room whenever I have my lunch break. the west simply allows him to get close to you and you can't fight it. The west expects a Muslim woman to conform to its culture. If decide to keep your Islamic culture, they will make your life a living hell. Some sisters will give up their Islamic norms for $$$...and sadly they'll defend their stance at all costs. One sister told me that this job is from Allah and Allah was the one who wanted her to conform. Shaytaan gets to you

 

[al-fajr]

Sisters who need jobs, how about child minding? Nursery nurses and working with young children is not only enjoyable and rewarding, keeps you human.

Also, you wont find males in those sorts of jobs very much, inshaAllah.

Alternatively if you have studied something to a good level, become a private tutor and only tutor girls.

 

[al-fajr]

Good post, but often people use this to justify women working everywhere regardless of how haraam the environment may be for them.

Its nice for us to know our rights and its encouraging to read these examples, but all sisters should honestly ask themselves before launching in, are they dressed like the Sahaabiyaat? Are they dressing like Aa'ishah radiAllaahu anha before they step out of the house? If not then all this evidence about it being permissable to work is of no advantage to them, moreover none of us would have the right to use these examples to justify our 'jobs' (what I like to call 'compromise of hayaa' because 90% of jobs are nothing but that.)

Im just keeping it in perspective inshaAllaah.

Wa-salaam

I found my old post quite hilarious.

Not that there's anything wrong with the contents as such, there are ways of saying things, it sounds like I just needed a cookie ..

 

[Precious Star]

I stopped working because I did not appreciate a male worker attempting to sit alone with me in the coffee room whenever I have my lunch break. the west simply allows him to get close to you and you can't fight it. The west expects a Muslim woman to conform to its culture. If decide to keep your Islamic culture, they will make your life a living hell. Some sisters will give up their Islamic norms for $$$...and sadly they'll defend their stance at all costs. One sister told me that this job is from Allah and Allah was the one who wanted her to conform. Shaytaan gets to you

But sister, you quit because you were able to quit. If you truly needed the money, you look for another job.

The situation you are describing -- I can tell you that I have had similar experiences in muslim countries as a muslim woman, to the point where I felt that my personal safety was threatened. And it happened in public, not in a closed space! At one point, I literally had to hide in a bakery while the man who was following me asking me to have cofee with him in his office waited outside until I came out. He got sick of waiting I guess. But I was shaking. I've had similar experiences in other muslim countries (although that last one really shook me up).

Its not the west. It happens everywhere. There are respectful men everywhere. There are smarmy men everywhere.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

What is being sought here is direction and to some degree hope of activism. True, I had the opportunity to work in an all women's environment. I loved every second of it however circumstances which were rather haraam put an end to that. I had to go find work in the horrible world of retail. I lasted six weeks. On my last day I started to vomit and decided this was the sign to walk out. And I simply punched the clock and walked out.

We find women who become the breadwinners, even married women, carry the burden of the family. We have many many examples.

It is impossible to make enough money to be self-sufficient when when you tutor. That is pocket money. I call it mad money. Money for the extras. It does not cover the expenditures of life.

As for the sister who says the west allows men to be entertained; lets not stereotype. All you have to do is snap back and tell the man to get lost. You do not have to be rude. A person only conforms as much as they wish to conform. Besides, that is not the topic of this thread.

The wives of the Prophet, swas, worked.

We are not encouraged to stay at home and weep. That does not put bread in the mouths of babes. That does not stop the bill collector from being an intimate friend. Oh..its 8:39 am..it must be the electrical company..it is winter and my heat is electric..but the cutoff date is tomorrow and I need $250.00 to keep it on until the next due date. So, I'll mosey down to the pawn shop..deal with kufr men and get a trifling for my jewels...one collector down three more to go...can't drive the insurance lapsed...will have to take public transportation...bus is full..can't get to a seat...and I am squished between three men..great...stop to pay bill...get receipt..try to make phone call...cell phone is off...will pay bill in three days..temperature dropping...find pay phone...broken..walk two blocks..wait ten minutes on hold..Alhumdullila my children have heat...take two buses home..walk three blocks...there are icicles forming on my nose....one week until the food stamps come...InshaAllah, I will go to the kufr food bank and see what's in the tin cans....

Oh where did I read that a brother wanted to discuss issues of women in need in the west...but needed evidence about Sunna and the Quran?...Let me make wudu and pray...Oh Allah subhana wa taala...let me depend on no other than You...cleanse my heart of any ill-feeling I may have; how my brothers in faith abandon me; Allah humma bless them with knowledge; let my sisters in faith who live in comfort and joy continue their comfort and joy; protect the sisters from what I have endured; make me ever grateful for every blessing you have given me. Tomorrow, InshaAllah, I will get food to last until the food stamps come. ( forgive me Allah but I can not look at another can of creamed corn..save me from that)

 

[Greg]

Assalaam alaikum,

What is being sought here is direction and to some degree hope of activism. True, I had the opportunity to work in an all women's environment. I loved every second of it however circumstances which were rather haraam put an end to that. I had to go find work in the horrible world of retail. I lasted six weeks. On my last day I started to vomit and decided this was the sign to walk out. And I simply punched the clock and walked out.

We find women who become the breadwinners, even married women, carry the burden of the family. We have many many examples.

It is impossible to make enough money to be self-sufficient when when you tutor. That is pocket money. I call it mad money. Money for the extras. It does not cover the expenditures of life.

As for the sister who says the west allows men to be entertained; lets not stereotype. All you have to do is snap back and tell the man to get lost. You do not have to be rude. A person only conforms as much as they wish to conform. Besides, that is not the topic of this thread.

The wives of the Prophet, swas, worked.

We are not encouraged to stay at home and weep. That does not put bread in the mouths of babes. That does not stop the bill collector from being an intimate friend. Oh..its 8:39 am..it must be the electrical company..it is winter and my heat is electric..but the cutoff date is tomorrow and I need $250.00 to keep it on until the next due date. So, I'll mosey down to the pawn shop..deal with kufr men and get a trifling for my jewels...one collector down three more to go...can't drive the insurance lapsed...will have to take public transportation...bus is full..can't get to a seat...and I am squished between three men..great...stop to pay bill...get receipt..try to make phone call...cell phone is off...will pay bill in three days..temperature dropping...find pay phone...broken..walk two blocks..wait ten minutes on hold..Alhumdullila my children have heat...take two buses home..walk three blocks...there are icicles forming on my nose....one week until the food stamps come...InshaAllah, I will go to the kufr food bank and see what's in the tin cans....

Oh where did I read that a brother wanted to discuss issues of women in need in the west...but needed evidence about Sunna and the Quran?...Let me make wudu and pray...Oh Allah subhana wa taala...let me depend on no other than You...cleanse my heart of any ill-feeling I may have; how my brothers in faith abandon me; Allah humma bless them with knowledge; let my sisters in faith who live in comfort and joy continue their comfort and joy; protect the sisters from what I have endured; make me ever grateful for every blessing you have given me. Tomorrow, InshaAllah, I will get food to last until the food stamps come. ( forgive me Allah but I can not look at another can of creamed corn..save me from that)

I tried to send you a pm but your inbox is full Sister, if you need help I get my disability money on Friday and can send you something if you need it.