What is orthodox muslims meant by?

[palestine]

Asalamu alaykum wrwb. i've never heard this before but lately i'm hearing and seeing people call themselves "orthodox Muslims". what does that mean, are they part christian or something? what does orthodox means? hope you'll help me understand inshaAllah and is it haram to say that you're an orthodox muslim. i'm seeing lots of people saying that often now.

 

[nyerekareem]

Asalamu alaykum wrwb. i've never heard this before but lately i'm hearing and seeing people call themselves "orthodox Muslims". what does that mean, are they part christian or something? what does orthodox means? hope you'll help me understand inshaAllah and is it haram to say that you're an orthodox muslim. i'm seeing lots of people saying that often now.

:salam2:

sister, what is meant by the term " orthodox " muslim generally means sunni muslim. the reason this has come about is due to the fact that there are many muslim sects in the world. these sects hold certain beliefs or rituals that basically are out of line with the qur'an and the sunnah. orthodox is greek for " true belief " i.e. ortho ( true ) dox ( belief ). so orthodox muslims are muslims of Ahl qur'an wa sunnah.

people that are considered out of orthodoxy are Shi'a, Ahmadiyya, and Sufi among others.

it also has nothing to do with christianity.

 

[xSharingan01x]

Asalamu alaykum wrwb. i've never heard this before but lately i'm hearing and seeing people call themselves "orthodox Muslims". what does that mean, are they part christian or something? what does orthodox means? hope you'll help me understand inshaAllah and is it haram to say that you're an orthodox muslim. i'm seeing lots of people saying that often now.

As far as I know the word is used for group of people who follows 'traditional doctrine, traditional ways, methods, retains early principles, etc... '.
Get the drift?
So Orthodox Jews are the ones who try to imitate and follow the earliest Jews ways.
If some say Orthodox Muslim, I'm assuming they are referring to people who attempt to follow Islam according to Quran and Sunnah and like the early generations. Those who follow the way of the Saalafs can be considered 'orthodox Muslims' or any Muslims who try their best to stick to the Quran and Sunnah and reject innovation in religion can also be considered orthodox.

So it doesn't mean they are part Christian.
But as Muslims, of course we reject such labels and consider ourselves Muslims only, the word 'orthodox' is merely a linguistic expression used primarily by non-Muslims, and if used by Muslims are used because lack of a better word.
So that's as far as what I understand, perhaps some one can shed more light?

 

[palestine]

Lol. jazakaAllahu khayran brothers. it would've been much easier if they just say we follow the quran and sunnah,or if they said we're sunnis. I'm used to seeing orthodox being used mostly in judaism and in non muslim religions. salam

 

[a_muslimah86]

:salam2:

The brother and the sister did a great job explaining...mashallah...jazahom allah khair...

I think this term is being used to help non-muslims understand the difference..because from experience..I can tell you..non-muslims do not know ANYTHING about the beliefs of the different sects...so you have to use certain terminologies and comparisons to establish an understanding...for example..

when people ask me about Shias..

I say...

You know the people they show beating themselves?..these are Shias...

when they ask me about Sufis..

I say...

Have you seen the spinning darvishes of Istanbul?..this is something influenced by Sufis...

*THEN*...for example to help the questioner understand better...I tell them Shias are similar to Catholics in much of their ideology..and give them examples...and I tell them of the main beliefs of Sufis...

AND THEN..I tell them I am Sunni...and Sunnis believe...........and tell them our beliefs...and why these sects deviate from the teachings of Islam..a lot of times...they actually see that without me telling them..because if they gone to a Shia and asked...because of their belief in Taqiyyah..they won't tell them even a QUARTER of what I tell them...and Sufis insist that they are no different than Sunnis...so you see where things can get pret-ty messy!

I found that this is the best way to help them understand..make comparisons and use terms they are familiar with...because if you start talking about the full-fledged history from Islamic perspective...they will as confused as a human can get!...so I simplify it for them

So though the term "orthodox" was heavy upon my hears when I first heard it and disliked it...I now understand where they're coming from with it..because people don't know so much about Islam..and this helps them start somewhere

Have you heard the term "mainstream muslims"???...that's the one I still can't get used to!

 

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

The brother and the sister did a great job explaining...mashallah...jazahom allah khair...

I think this term is being used to help non-muslims understand the difference..because from experience..I can tell you..non-muslims do not know ANYTHING about the beliefs of the different sects...so you have to use certain terminologies and comparisons to establish an understanding...for example..

when people ask me about Shias..

I say...

You know the people they show beating themselves?..these are Shias...

when they ask me about Sufis..

I say...

Have you seen the spinning darvishes of Istanbul?..this is something influenced by Sufis...

*THEN*...for example to help the questioner understand better...I tell them Shias are similar to Catholics in much of their ideology..and give them examples...and I tell them of the main beliefs of Sufis...

AND THEN..I tell them I am Sunni...and Sunnis believe...........and tell them our beliefs...and why these sects deviate from the teachings of Islam..a lot of times...they actually see that without me telling them..because if they gone to a Shia and asked...because of their belief in Taqiyyah..they won't tell them even a QUARTER of what I tell them...and Sufis insist that they are no different than Sunnis...so you see where things can get pret-ty messy!

I found that this is the best way to help them understand..make comparisons and use terms they are familiar with...because if you start talking about the full-fledged history from Islamic perspective...they will as confused as a human can get!...so I simplify it for them

So though the term "orthodox" was heavy upon my hears when I first heard it and disliked it...I now understand where they're coming from with it..because people don't know so much about Islam..and this helps them start somewhere

Have you heard the term "mainstream muslims"???...that's the one I still can't get used to!

:salam2:

about the " mainstream " muslim title, i do understand why that has also been thrown around lately. i have heard used by muslims and non-muslims alike. mainstream has been used to differentiate muslims that have been sticking to Qur'an and Sunnah from those muslims that may take part or believe in " islamic extremism " . for example:

you may hear something like this on the news:

although the terrorists acts that took place in Mumbai were done by muslims, the muslim mainstream or majority are appalled by the attack.

also it can be used as a way of showing difference between muslims that have different opinions on certain islamic issues. for example:

although there are muslims that listen to all types of music, the mainstream of muslims believe that music is prohibited or at least seen to be disliked.

we all have to be careful of how these words or labels are used to describe us, because sometimes these labels could be a way to insult us or create even more division amongst fellow muslims.

 

[xSharingan01x]

:salam2:


Have you heard the term "mainstream muslims"???...that's the one I still can't get used to!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I can't get used to it either.
It seems though the media (mostly printed news media use this term), has ever changing criteria to determine who is the 'mainstream Muslim' or the 'moderate Muslim".

I think NyKareem gave a nice explanation.

Hmmm I wonder if I'm a Moderate/mainstream Muslim.

 

[a_muslimah86]

:salam2:

about the " mainstream " muslim title, i do understand why that has also been thrown around lately. i have heard used by muslims and non-muslims alike. mainstream has been used to differentiate muslims that have been sticking to Qur'an and Sunnah from those muslims that may take part or believe in " islamic extremism " . for example:

you may hear something like this on the news:

although the terrorists acts that took place in Mumbai were done by muslims, the muslim mainstream or majority are appalled by the attack.

also it can be used as a way of showing difference between muslims that have different opinions on certain islamic issues. for example:

although there are muslims that listen to all types of music, the mainstream of muslims believe that music is prohibited or at least seen to be disliked.

we all have to be careful of how these words or labels are used to describe us, because sometimes these labels could be a way to insult us or create even more division amongst fellow muslims.

You pretty much said it...I think the political connotations it might possess is what makes me frown upon it...especially if like you said..they can very easily be turned into an insult or an agenda...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I can't get used to it either.
It seems though the media (mostly printed news media use this term), has ever changing criteria to determine who is the 'mainstream Muslim' or the 'moderate Muslim".

I think NyKareem gave a nice explanation.

Hmmm I wonder if I'm a Moderate/mainstream Muslim.

...I forgot the "moderate muslim"...I really don't know how that works!...it's worst when a muslim says to another muslim..."I am *moderately* religious"...it just makes you think..wow!..way to go with the ratings buddy!..you're really going to make sense out of yourself now!..lol

 

[nyerekareem]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I can't get used to it either.
It seems though the media (mostly printed news media use this term), has ever changing criteria to determine who is the 'mainstream Muslim' or the 'moderate Muslim".

I think NyKareem gave a nice explanation.

Hmmm I wonder if I'm a Moderate/mainstream Muslim.

:salam2:

how can i ever forget the term " moderate " muslim? that's one islamic term that i don't like. here's why: generally the one's using the title of " moderate " muslims are usually non-muslim. they are hoping that these moderate muslims " reform " islam. since islam is perfect, there is no need for reform. they want us to take the so called " moderate " route because many of the " moderate " muslims have sadly denied or lessened the importance of the sunnah of our Prophet . you will notice that many of them have no problem with not wearing a hijab, have negative views about the beard, espouse feminist ideas, support music of all sorts, and are very accepting of the kufr of other people. so i always stress that i am not a moderate muslim, i'm telling you, those types always try to find loopholes in the deen. i am a muslim that tries to follow the qur'an, sunnah and the majority consensus of our islamic scholars throughout the ages.

i love all my brothers and sisters in islam, however they may label their islam, but i just want to be known as the average qur'an and sunnah following muslim.

 

[Mabsoot]

:salam2:

There is no place for Muslims to call themselves "Orthodox Muslims".

The word, Orthodox is a Christian and Jewish term, just as you said sister. This can also confuse people as they will think it is similar to how both these faiths are "orthodox".

Many of the Scholars of Islam, in recent times, have said that using such phrases is not good. This is copying the disbelievers and using their labelling.

It is neither found in the texts of the early Muslims nor is it used today in any arabic form,

It is not good to call yourself an "orthodox" Muslim. Just as we should not call ourselves "modern" or "liberal" or "Moderate".

Rather, if we need to explain to non-Muslim people then we should tell them how a real Muslim belief should be. We need to give a little bit of time to explain in a few sentences what is the way that a real Muslim should follow. i.e. we are Muslims who follow the Quran and the Sunnah. That upon this way we worship Allah alone, we follow the Prophet Muhammad and that this, true Islam is against any form of injustice.

However, I would like to point out, that contrary to what some unfortunate youtube speakers and "celebrity Imams" say, there is nothing wrong with calling yourself Sunni or ascribing to the methodology of Salafiyah. Which is basically the same as the above paragraph.

 

[Summer03]

this is a really cool thread loved it! Mashallah nicely written replies wallah... And you know what also ticks me off about todays Muslims.... When they call you "religious" for fasting your regular fasts and perfecting your daily prayers... It's like they practice Islam in a whole other way... I always tell them I'm not religious ok I'm doing what a Muslim does... Is that not what you're supposed to do.. They reply back saying you need to chill a bit... Subuanallah!!!! I just get so maddddd! But Allah yahdee (guide) us all

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Salaam,

I remember from one of shaykh Anwar Al-Walaki lectures, when a non-Muslim calls a Muslim a "moderate" Muslim, especially in the politcal arena & media, in essence it is referring to that person as a non-Muslim or a non-practicing Muslim that abides and follows the rule of the kuffar. We should never consider ourselves "moderate" according to the kuffars terminology.

 

[palestine]

Salaam,

I remember from one of shaykh Anwar Al-Walaki lectures, when a non-Muslim calls a Muslim a "moderate" Muslim, especially in the politcal arena & media, in essence it is referring to that person as a non-Muslim or a non-practicing Muslim that abides and follows the rule of the kuffar. We should never consider ourselves "moderate" according to the kuffars terminology.

I agree 100%. what i don't like about this terminology "moderate" is that they separate you from the rest of Muslims, as if the rest are terrorists and you're the only one who is "good, or on their side". They keep pointing at the 'ulama as being "extremists" or "islamists", and i'm just awed by this and in my head i say "well i'm what my 'ulama are". May Allah guide us all ameen. asalamu alaykum wrwb.

 

[palestine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-jMY9e5wI&feature=related

ya rab! the guy in this video is a complete idiot! How can he claim to be a true Muslim when he has written by hand and said by mouth that he supports Israel. la hawla wala quwata ila billah! truly some have gone beyond the limits.

 

[xSharingan01x]

ya rab! the guy in this video is a complete idiot! How can he claim to be a true Muslim when he has written by hand and said by mouth that he supports Israel. la hawla wala quwata ila billah! truly some have gone beyond the limits.

:salam2:

This video was disturbing, I think this is the only Muslim whom I've come across who said I support Israel.
I seek refuge in Allah from such people.


Interesting observation sister Summer03.

I've also witnessed similar situation before, it's as if it's a bad thing to be 'religious' and what's more disturbing is that a few even feel ashamed to a certain degree to display their Muslim identity. But they have no shame in declaring, "I drink, I do this, I do that.. and other vile things".
May Allah guide us all, and save us from such pathetic attitude.

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Salaam,

Many people, including Muslims get misguided by the U.S. media. How can anyone with a sincere heart support Israel for killing more than 1600 innocent Palestinians, leaving over 5,000 injured, demolishing their houses, schools, masjids, and other infrastructures, while using weapons of mass destruction?? Something is wrong with the psyche of these people.

I remember some Muslims use to tell me to vote for Bush, when he was running for president! Now I can't even find them any more.

The video also reminds me of Fareed Zakaria, an anchor for CNN news. He has a Muslim name and is labeled as a "moderate" by non-Muslims, because he supports the war in Iraq and the genocide of Gaza. We have to be careful with these corrupt Muslims. They are content with whatever the kuffar feeds them.

May Allah eschew evil and guide us on the right path. Ameen.

 

[Summer03]

I'm using an iPod for all this stuff and have weird access but what evidence is there to tell us this guy is muslim... The media is so deceiving these days this probably is just another hoax. I personally can tell a Muslim somehow...and this dude has something fishy about him... Either is NOT a practicing Muslim.... Bit fat liar or something...