Debate help!!

[MutlekM]

:salam2:
First I would like to explain that there is this debate going online of does God exist. Well this is what one of the Athiest said does anyone have the knowledge to reply.

here is his challenge for the muslims...
Ok for example

Quote:
It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit.

well it was common knowledge among Arab neighbors (Rome, Egypt and Persia(Iran)) of that time, so Mohamed can simply borrow this knowledge from them; also later Copernicus, Galileo, Bruno and many others proved (
heliocentrism
Heliocentrism ) that it is Earth turns around the Sun not vice versa which Quran fails to mention.


Quote:
It is God Who sends the winds...

wind originates from differences of temperature of the air, hotter air rised higher and vacuum of air is replaced with air from more colder locations. The whole process make air move so there is wind

wind
Wind no god involved.


Quote:
It is He who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised (from the dead).

Clouds originate from evaporation of water from various seas and oceans when sun heats it enough steam rises top the air when there is a lot of steam in one place it looks like cloud, since steam is also a gas like the rest of the air it moves along with the wind, to turn steam back into the water temperature should be low enough that is way there almost never raining in deserts and northern areas quite often, equator area is more complex thing so rain there only seasonal when there is a cold wind from the ocean to chill out the clouds
air circulation


clouds
Clouds

Quote:
... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?

text mention stages of fetus development but this only quote from Quran that used to back it doesn't say anything about what are these stages, also simply because children do not born in one day but after some time during which women's belly keeps growing you can assume that there are some stages of development so it is nothing more than a common knowledge


Quote:
He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.

once again actual quote from Quran doesn't says that sperm determine sex of the baby like modern science do, in fact this quote even fails to mention that there is need for female ovum in addition to sperm.

Well I didn't read everything because there is tooooooo many but these 4 examples are enough to show fails and errors in Quran or more politically correct contradictions with science.

And finally about evolution: there are skeletons of creatures that are similar to both humans and monkeys but not quite any of these two so in the past there were middle stages that eventually either keep evolving until turning into full scale human or died out because failed in competition with humans for life-space, other monkeys do not evolve because the live on the trees and for that lifestyle their level of development is enough and for future humans that were driven out of the trees, because number of trees was sharply reduced during this period of the past, there was need to adopt to ground lifestyle, find the way to find food and come with ideas how to defend from various predators all this leaded to human evolution, other animals also evolved one from another and skeletons of middle spices do exist.
url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Evolution
So far science tracked it down to single cell and sub cell microorganisms and it is difficult so far to reach further at the moment but science working on it so there is a good chance that we will eventually learn it and overall it is better to have may be not full but proven knowledge of science rather than unproven religious believes.

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salumu 'Alaykum,

I will post in a minute, Insha Allah, someone is at my door. I have never been able to persuade an atheist that he or she was wrong. I simply asked them do they believe that a tornado can pass through a junk yard and assemble a beautiful new car in the process that runs perfectly.

Well, most scientists don't believe that the world with all of its systems interacting could be the result of chance either. Not to mention the universe. (I was asked to provide source material for this statement; unfortunately, it comes from a few hundred volumes in hard copy. However, I don't think Yusuf Estes would mind if I presented the second of his seven YouTube videos on this subject:

[yt]G9OMQyBKp3M&feature=related[/yt]

and here is 1of2 parts on another subject.

[yt]941K_sOgpXg&feature=related[/yt]

If a person doesn't believe in Allah, than they are either unable to appreciate the intricacies
of Allah's beautiful creation because of brain damage or they just enjoy arguing. Either way, it is Allah's Will.

I usually just tell people who want to debate the existence of Allah (GOD) that if they ever want to hear why I believe or came to understand that Islam was The Correct Path to ALLAH, I would be happy to share it with them. But, I don't need to prove Allah's existence any more than I need to prove the existence of Air. It is impossible to prove or disprove anything unless it is Allah's Will.

 

[arzafar]

firstly i dunno why you got involved in debating with an atheist with the help of translation of quran, when he doesnt believe in god.
you have to first prove that God exists and that He has the same attributes as Allah. Now this requires a lot of philosophy, because science (or more precisely empirical evidence by itself) cannot prove much if anything. philosophy is a deeeeep subject so my advice would be to stay out of this debate.

 

[MutlekM]

firstly i dunno why you got involved in debating with an atheist with the help of translation of quran, when he doesnt believe in god.
you have to first prove that God exists and that He has the same attributes as Allah. Now this requires a lot of philosophy, because science (or more precisely empirical evidence by itself) cannot prove much if anything. philosophy is a deeeeep subject so my advice would be to stay out of this debate.

Well it is on a forum with the thread "Does God exist" and it gets me mad to think they won. But I will InshaAllaah avoid it.
Peace

 

[Maha*]

Asalamu alaikum, I disagree with arzafar. Please read Frank's edited post, and reply to them. There are many atheists who have joined Islam. Just because it might be slightly diffiicult to prove, doesn't mean you should give up. At least try.

Also, read this: http://muslimoutreach.org.uk/compar...the-existence-of-allah-swt-to-an-atheist.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQ1BWqjTjs <-- It's a story about a man who converted from atheism to Islam, it was such a long video which I bookmarked to view later so I can't give you any feedback yet but maybe it will be of help to you.

There's one last link I'm trying to find..let me search for it and edit my post later when I do inshaa Allah.

 

[Basicofislam]

:salam2:
[yt]xHSomCYHDdM[/yt]

 

[Basicofislam]

In the name of ALLAH, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


DR. ZAKIR NAIK - PRESIDENT, IRF

A medical doctor by professional training, Dr. Zakir Naik is renowed as a dynamic international orator on Islam and Comparative Religion. Dr. Zakir Naik clarifies Islamic viewpoints and clears misconceptions about Islam, using the Qur'an, authentic Hadith and other religious Scriptures as a basis, in conjunction with reason, logic and scientific facts. He is 43 years old.

Dr. Zakir is popular for his critical analysis and convincing answers to challenging questions posed by audiences after his public talks

.


How to do dawah to an atheist?


Part-1




[As far as the first part of the question is concerned how to do dawah to an atheist? It is remembered as earlier that the master key is; SURAH IMRAN C 3 V 64 WE say 'تَعَالَوۡاْ إِلَىٰ ڪَلِمَةٍ۬ سَوَآءِۭ بَيۡنَنَا وَبَيۡنَكُمۡ COME TO COMMON TERMS AS BETWEEN US AND YOU '. Now one may ask what is the common term of atheist, what common term can Muslim have an atheist but yet I call it the master key. The first thing I do when I meet an atheist is I congratulate him. I congratulate him because he says he does not believe in God. The reason I congratulate him is, all the other human beings most of them they are blindly following their parents. The Christian, he is Christian because his father is a Christian. The person is a Hindu because his father is a Hindu. Most of the Muslims are Muslims because fathers are Muslims. This atheist is thinking. His father, his parents may be religious but he doesn't believe in the God which his parents worship. The reason I congratulate him is because he has said the first part of the Islamic shahadah, Islamic creed "LA ILA HA" "There is no God". The only thing I have to do is "ILLA LLAH" 'BUT ALLAH' which I shall do insha Allah. Half my job is done. To the other non-Muslims, first I have to prove to him is that the God you worshiping is a wrong god, the false god and then I have to prove him to ALLAH (swt). Here half my job is done. He is already said first part of the Islamic shahadah "LA ILA HA". So my job, half my job is done. So I have only to prove "ILLAL LAH" which I shall do Insha Allah. Most of the atheists we realize have become atheist because they believe in science and technologies. These people think that science advance so much, we don't require scriptures, we don't require religions etc. The first question I ask to atheist is.... Suppose there is an equipment, there is a machinery, which no one in the world had ever seen before is brought in front of you, is brought in front of an atheist and if we ask the question that who will be the first person, who will be able to tell you the mechanism of this machinery of this object. What can be his reply? The reply of the atheist will give you is the first person who will tell you the mechanism is the manufacturer, some may say the creator, some may say the inventor, and some may say the producer whatever they say is somewhat similar. Either they say the creator, manufacture, the producer, the inventor it will be somewhat similar just keep it up in the back of your mind. Then ask him next question. How did our universe come into an existence? So the atheist will tell us the initially there was a primary Nebula. Then there was a Bib Bang. There was a secondary separation which gives rise to galaxy, the sun, the moon and the earth on which we live. This we call as a Big Bang. When did you come to know about this creation of the universe? So atheist will tell you about 30, 40 years back the scientists discovered this. You ask him a question. What you are talking about the Big Bang is already mention in the QURAN, in SURAH AMBIA C 21 V 30'We say أَوَلَمۡ يَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓاْ أَنَّ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضَ ڪَانَتَا رَتۡقً۬ا فَفَتَقۡنَـٰهُمَا*!ۖ Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?'. What you are talking about the Big Bang is already mention in the QURAN 1400 years ago. Who could have mention that? So the atheist may say " May be its a fluke "No problem. Don't argue with him. You continue. The light of the moon is it its own light or reflected light? The atheist will tell us the previously we thought the moon has it's own light. Recently we have come to know in science recently 300years back, 200 years back we have come to know that the light of the moon is not its own light but a reflected light. The QURAN mention 1400 years ago. In SURAH FURQAN C 25 V 61 Blessed is He who placed constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp (a sun having its own light) and a Moon (having a reflected light or a borrow light). The Arabic words use for moon-light in the QURAN is "Munir" or "Nur" meaning reflected light or a borrowed light. Who could have mention that in the QURAN 1400 years ago that the light of the moon is not it's own light but a reflected light which we have come to know recently. Then the atheist may say" Your PROPHET MOHAMAD (PBUH) may be he was intelligent man." Don't argue with him. Continue.



Part -2





The world that we live on, what's the shape of this earth on which we live? The atheist will tell you it is spherical. When did you come to know? So he will tell us it was 1597 when Francis Drake's when he sailed around the earth and then he proved that the earth was spherical. But QURAN says 1400 years ago in SURAH NAZIAT C 79 V 30. وَٱلۡأَرۡضَ بَعۡدَ ذَٲلِكَ دَحَٮٰهَآ And thereafter WE have made the earth egg shape. The Arabic word 'Dahaha' one of which meaning is geological expand. The other meaning is direct from the Arabic word 'Duyah' which means an egg. It doesn't refer to a normal egg. It refers to the egg of an ostrich. We know that the world is not completely round like a ball but it is geo-spherical in shape its flat from the poles and if you analyze the shape of the egg of an ostrich that two is geo-spherical in shape.

Who could have mention in the QURAN 1400 years ago that the shape of the earth is geo-spherical? Again the atheist may say, you know your PROPHET MOHAMAD (PBUH) may be he was super intelligent. Don't argue with him. You can continue. When I was in school ı had learned that the sun was stationary. It revolves but did not rotate about on its own axis. Then atheist may says 'Is that mentioned in the QURAN?' I said 'No that is what I learned in school.' 'And I passed my school in 1982 approximately 12 years back I have learned the sun was stationary did not rotate about on its own axis. But the QURAN says in SURAH AMBİA C 21 V 33.' IT IS ALLAH WHO CREATED THE NIGHT AND THE DAY AND THE SUN AND THE MOON.EACH ONE TRAVELLING IN THE ORBITS WITH ITS OWN MOTION'. So the QURAN says that beside the sun revolving, it even rotates about its own axis. Who could have mentioned that in the QURAN 1400 years ago? Then the atheist will be silent. There will be a long pause. Don't wait for the reply. You can keep on continuing. Today sciences tell us that the universe is expanding which is mentioning in the QURAN 1400 years ago in SURAH DARYAT C 51 V 47. The QURAN speaks about the word cycles which we learned in school. It was Bernard Palissy in 1580 who first describe the water cycle how the water evaporates from the ocean, form the new clouds moves into inland, fall as rain. This water cycle is spoken about in great details in the QURAN in several verses.

IN SURAH AL ZUMAER C 39 V 21

IN SURAH RUM C 30 V 24

IN SURAH AL HIJIR C 15 V 22

IN SURAH MUMINUN C 23 V 18

IN SURAH NUR C 24 V 43

IN SURAH RUM C 30 V 48

IN SURAH ARAF 7 V 17

IN SURAH FURQAN C 25 V 48 TO 49

IN SURAH FATIR C 35 V 9

IN SURAH YA SIN C 36 V 34

IN SURAH MULK C 67 V 30

IN SURAH AL TARIQ C 86 V 11

There are hundred of verses in the QURAN which only speaks about the water cycles which science has discovered these centuries.

We can keep on talking that today we have come to know that the plants have got sexes which we did not know earlier. QURAN says in SURAH TAHA C 20 V 53 that the plants got sexes, males and females. Today we have come to know that there is two types of water, sweet and salty and there is barrier between them which is mentioned in the QURAN in SURAH FURQAN C 25 V 53 and SURAH RAHMAN C 55 V 19 – 20 . مَرَجَ ٱلۡبَحۡرَيۡنِ يَلۡتَقِيَانِ (١٩) بَيۡنَہُمَا بَرۡزَخٌ۬ لَّا يَبۡغِيَانِ IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS LET FREE TWO BODIES OF FLOWING WATER. THOUGH THEY MEET THEY DO NOT MIX. THERE IS A BARRIER BETWEEN THEM. Today's science tell us that it is the mountains which prevent the earth from shaking which is mentioning in the QURAN 1400 years ago in the SURAH NABA C 78 V 6 and 7. The QURAN speaks about BIOLOGY that WE HAVE CREATED EVERY LIVING CREATURES FROM WATER. EVERY LIVING THINGS. IN SURAH AMBIA C 21 V 30. QURAN mention this 1400 years ago. The QURAN speaks about ZOOLOGY about the life-span of the spiders in SURAH ANKABURT C 29 V 41. About the ants in SURAH AL NAMAL C 27 V 17 to 18. About the bees in SURAH NAHL C 16 V 68-69. The QURAN speaks about EMBRYOLOGY in SURAH ALAQ C 96 V 1-2 . WE HAVE CREATED HUMAN BEINGS FROM ALAKA (A LEECH-LIKE SUBSTANCE) which we have come to know recently. The QURAN speaks about the embryological stages in SURAH MUMINUM C 23 V 12 TO 14. You can go on talking about the scientific point there are more than thousands of verses in the QURAN which speaks about science. After every scientific facts you ask the question, who could have mention that in the QURAN? The only reply the atheist can give you is the creator, the cherisher, the manufacturer, the inventor, the producer. This creator, this manufacturer, this producer, this inventor we Muslim call HIM as ALLAH. That's the reason Francis Bacon, very famous philosopher said 'little knowledge of science takes you away from AL MIGHTY GOD. In-depth knowledge of science makes you a believer in GOD. That's the reason today scientists are not eliminating GOD. The illuminating the models of GOD 'LA I LAHA ILLAL LAH''

 

[Frank_H_Smith]

As Salamu 'Alaykum,

Islam 101

Al-Hijr
We send not down the angels save with the Fact, and in that case (the disbelievers) would not be tolerated. (8) Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are its Guardian. (9) We verily sent (messengers) before thee among the factions of the men of old. (10) And never came there unto them a messenger but they did mock him. (11) Thus do We make it traverse the hearts of the guilty: (12) They believe not therein, though the example of the men of old hath gone before. (13) And even if We opened unto them a Gate of heaven and they kept mounting through it, (14)

Al-Anaam
Say (O Muhammad): What thing is of most weight in testimony? Say: Allah is Witness between you and me. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in sooth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One Allah. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye associate (with Him). (19)

Al-Baqara
Whencesoever thou comest forth turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship; and wheresoever ye may be (O Muslims) turn your faces toward it (when ye pray) so that men may have no argument against you, save such of them as do injustice - Fear them not, but fear Me! - and so that I may complete My grace upon you, and that ye may be guided. (150) Even as We have sent unto you a messenger from among you, who reciteth unto you Our revelations and causeth you to grow, and teacheth you the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth you that which ye knew not. (151) Therefore remember Me, I will remember you. Give thanks to Me, and reject not Me. (152) O ye who believe! Seek help in steadfastness and prayer. Lo! Allah is with the steadfast. (153)


2: 27 Those who break Allah's Covenant after it is ratified, and who sunder what Allah Has ordered to be joined, and do mischief on earth: These cause loss (only) to themselves.

2:39, “But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein.”

3:90-91 "Verily, those who disbelieved after their Belief and then went on increasing in their disbelief - never will their repentance be accepted [because they repent only by their tongues and not from their hearts]. And they are those who are astray. Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers."

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,”

9:66, Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin

9:74, They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

47:25,26 Those who turn back as apostates after Guidance was clearly shown to them, the Evil One has instigated them and busied them up with false hopes.

 

[mhamzah]

:salam2:

1. It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit.

well it was common knowledge among Arab neighbors (Rome, Egypt and Persia(Iran)) of that time, so Mohamed can simply borrow this knowledge from them;

The Qur'an discusses the sun and the manner in which it travels through space. When the sun moves through space, there are two options: it can travel just as a stone would travel if one threw it, or it can move of its own accord. The Qur'an states the latter - that it moves as a result of its own motion. To do such, the Qur'an uses a form of the word sabaha to describe the sun's movement through space. In order to properly provide the reader with a comprehensive understanding of the implications of this Arabic verb, the following example is given. If a man is in water and the verb sabaha is applied in reference to his movement, it can be understood that he is swimming, moving of his own accord and not as a result of a direct force applied to him. Thus when this verb is used in reference to the sun's movement through space, it in no way implies that the sun is flying uncontrollably through space as a result of being hurled or the like. It simply means that the sun is turning and rotating as it travels. Now, this is what the Qur'an affirms, but was it an easy thing to discover? Can any common man tell that the sun is turning? Only in modern times was the equipment made available to project the image of the sun onto a table top so that one could look at it without being blinded. And through this process it was discovered that not only are there three spots on the sun but that these spots move once every 25 days. This movement is referred to as the rotation of the sun around its axis and conclusively proves that, as the Qur'an stated 1400 years ago, the sun does, indeed turn as it travels through space. *** This wasn't common knowledge at that time. ***

also later Copernicus, Galileo, Bruno and many others proved (heliocentrism Heliocentrism ) that it is Earth turns around the Sun not vice versa which Quran fails to mention.

And where does the Quran states that the sun revolve around the earth? As to why the Quran does not explicity states that the earth turns around the sun is discussed below.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.

Once again actual quote from Quran doesn't says that sperm determine sex of the baby like modern science do, in fact this quote even fails to mention that there is need for female ovum in addition to sperm.

Fertilization is Performed by Only a Very Small Volume of Liquid

We have created the human beings and made them into male and female through minute quantity of liquid which is ejaculated’.

But natural if it is ejaculated, it has to be a male fluid. Qur'an says it is the male which is responsible for the sex of the child.

‘We have created the human beings from a minute quantity of sperm and then made it into an ‘Alaqa’ - a leech-like substance - then gave it due proportion, then made it into sex male - and female’.

The Arabic word nutfa has been translated by the words 'small quantity (of sperm)' because we do not have the terms that are strictly appropriate. This word comes from a verb signifying 'to dribble, to trickle'; it is used to describe what remains at the bottom of a bucket that has been emptied out. It therefore indicates a very small quantity of liquid. Here it is sperm because the word is associated in another verse with the word sperm.

--sura 75, verse 37:
"Was (man) not a small quantity of sperm which has been poured out?"

Here the Arabic word mani signifies sperm.

Qur'an says a minute quantity of sperm is required for sex of the child.

The Implantation of the Egg In the Female Genital Organs.

Once the egg has been fertilized in the Fallopian tube it descends to lodge inside the uterus; this is called the 'implantation of the egg'. The Qur'an names the lodging of the fertilized egg womb:

-sura 22, verse 5:
"We cause whom We will to rest in the womb for an appointed term."

The implantation of the egg in the uterus (womb) is the result of the development of villosities, veritable elongations of the egg, which, like roots in the soil, draw nourishment from the thickness of the uterus necessary to the egg's growth. These formations make the egg literally cling to the uterus. This is a discovery of modern times.

The act of clinging is described five different times in the Qur'an.

verses 1 and 2 of sura 96:

"Read, in the name of thy Lord Who fashioned, Who fashioned man from something which clings."

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3. It is God Who sends the winds...

wind originates from differences of temperature of the air, hotter air rised higher and vacuum of air is replaced with air from more colder locations. The whole process make air move so there is wind.

Wind no god involved.

4. It is He who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised (from the dead). 3.

Clouds originate from evaporation of water from various seas and oceans when sun heats it enough steam rises top the air when there is a lot of steam in one place it looks like cloud, since steam is also a gas like the rest of the air it moves along with the wind, to turn steam back into the water temperature should be low enough that is way there almost never raining in deserts and northern areas quite often, equator area is more complex thing so rain there only seasonal when there is a cold wind from the ocean to chill out the clouds air circulation.


5. He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?

Text mention stages of fetus development but this only quote from Quran that used to back it doesn't say anything about what are these stages, also simply because children do not born in one day but after some time during which women's belly keeps growing you can assume that there are some stages of development so it is nothing more than a common knowledge.

According to Prof. Keith Moore these three veils of darkness in the QUR'AN refer to"

(a) Anterior abdominal wall of the mother

(b) The amnio-chorionoic mem

(c).The Uterine wall


Objections 3, 4 and 5:

Response 1:

An interesting attitude that exists in the Qur'an repeatedly deals with its advice to the reader. The Qur'an informs that reader about different facts and then gives the advice: "If you want to know more about this or that, or if you doubt what is said, then you should ask those who have knowledge." It is not usual to have a book that comes from someone without training in geography, botany, biology, etc., who discusses these subjectsand then advises the reader to ask men of knowledge if he doubts anything.
Yet in every age there have been Muslims who have followed the advice of the Qur'an and made surprising discoveries. If one looks to the works of Muslim scientists if many centuries ago, one will find them full of quotations from the Qur'an. These works state that they did research in such a place, looking for something. And they affirm that the reason they looked in such and such a place was that the Qur'an pointed them in that direction. For example, the Qur'an mentions man's origin and then tells the reader, "Research it!" It gives the reader a hint where to look and then states that one should find out more about it.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how God did originate creation; so will God produce a later creation: for God has power over all things. (29:20)

Response 2:

By explaining how these phenomenons (formation of rains, clouds etc) works he is admitting that the Universe makes sense. If you make that assumption then God is a necessary item to complete our picture of reality. If we make the assumption that the Universe makes sense then we simultaneously acknowledge the singularity in the scheme which is the absolute - that which is independent of the total concept of the scheme. And there are two ways to seeing this. They are the results of the work done by the 20th Century mathematician going by the name of Kurt Godel....

continued here; (plus a concise reply to atheists)

http://turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62546&highlight=gary+miller+nature

On Evolution

What is the origion of man?

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_OM/default.htm

 

[arzafar]

Well it is on a forum with the thread "Does God exist" and it gets me mad to think they won. But I will InshaAllaah avoid it.
Peace

the most that you can do is describe Allah to them. ask them who is the god that they dont/cant believe in? How do they define god? most probably they'll give you a dictionary definition. Now that definition is man made and obviously not enough. But we know that the correct definition of Allah is given in the quran. Use the 99 asma ul hasna and surah ikhlas. That is how we describe and define god. if anybody has a teeny tiny bit of faith left in his heart surely he will be attracted to pure monotheism.

however, im warning you do not get into argumentation because shaitan can put whisperings.

also i would like to add that you cannot convert anybody. recall all the miracles that the prophets performed, the vast majority of humans still didnt believe! Allah guides whom He wills and misguides whom He wills. So deliver that message and tell them that if anybody wants to be guided towards the truth, he has to sincerely ask for the guidance from God.

 

[MutlekM]

the most that you can do is describe Allah to them. ask them who is the god that they dont/cant believe in? How do they define god? most probably they'll give you a dictionary definition. Now that definition is man made and obviously not enough. But we know that the correct definition of Allah is given in the quran. Use the 99 asma ul hasna and surah ikhlas. That is how we describe and define god. if anybody has a teeny tiny bit of faith left in his heart surely he will be attracted to pure monotheism.

however, im warning you do not get into argumentation because shaitan can put whisperings.

also i would like to add that you cannot convert anybody. recall all the miracles that the prophets performed, the vast majority of humans still didnt believe! Allah guides whom He wills and misguides whom He wills. So deliver that message and tell them that if anybody wants to be guided towards the truth, he has to sincerely ask for the guidance from God.

I did half of what you told me already I didnt ask them for the definition but I did use some of Allaah subhanna watalla asma alhusna. And showed them the translation of surat al Ikhlas. Thanks for the advice.
Peace

 

[MutlekM]

Asalamu alaikum, I disagree with arzafar. Please read Frank's edited post, and reply to them. There are many atheists who have joined Islam. Just because it might be slightly diffiicult to prove, doesn't mean you should give up. At least try.

Also, read this: http://muslimoutreach.org.uk/compar...the-existence-of-allah-swt-to-an-atheist.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQ1BWqjTjs <-- It's a story about a man who converted from atheism to Islam, it was such a long video which I bookmarked to view later so I can't give you any feedback yet but maybe it will be of help to you.

There's one last link I'm trying to find..let me search for it and edit my post later when I do inshaa Allah.

Thanks for the incouragement

 

[muslimda3ee]

:salam2:

what is up with this thread, have to scroll left and right. not worth reading.

anyways if you are running into these statements online, it is from certain websites that they go and get these statements.

I doubt it very much that they read the Quran at all.

anyways, if this is personal people you are dealing with. Than I could answer these statements. They took one ayah and skipped the other related or they phrased an english translation and built on that wording. just post it in a thread where I don't have to scroll.

wa Allah ya3lam