CAIR - U.S. Muslim Travelers Warned of 'Forced Exile'

[alf2]

I definitely believe so. When my brother was coming home from Karachi, his country of visitation and his last name kept him held up in Immigration for 6 hours.

However, because he's so optimistic and void of the paranoia that I usually exhibit, he assured me he was sitting next to a bunch of Germans as well

Yeah I have that paranoia too.

My husband isnt a citizen, hes a British national with a pending visa. I'm really scared we may travel together one day, and for whatever reason they wouldnt let HIM come back like Tabassum's aunt.

The idea of being stranded in Pakistan is horrifying. I mean, I do like Pakistan and I like Pakistanis...But I dont know Urdu, we have no family there..Its a very scared scenario for me.

But i know things like this happen in reality...

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:

I fear I might have the opposite problem. Say I want to travel to a Muslim country. Well as a regular-looking white American dude, they might deny me a travel visa because "I might be going to study with terrorists".

I wonder if I could play the race card if they did...

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

It's a blessed day.

If I could be stranded in Pakistan it would be a dream come true. I could be brave and ride a motorcycle rickshaw to a bazaar in Karachi. If I survive that I could take a train to a land of beauty. I would want to see a sunrise in Islamabad. I would love to drive outside the mountains of Quetta and see a sunset. I would love to be lost in Lahore. And I would take a jeep deep into Love.

But, sister we can get lost anywhere. We just have to have faith that it is a step in the journey. I got lost in the deep woods of the hollar once or twice. Never was I so glad to see a gas station in my life.

You know what makes me laugh is the whole construct of your identity. It should be so simple. I am who I am. I am a Believing woman. If I need to visit your country that is all I am doing. I am visiting. Why do you need validation of me. Is my being not enough. I am standing in front of you. Is a piece of paper going to make me any more alive. Here I am in living color. And you need document x,y, and z. This is because I wish to know about you and your people. I am not going to harm you. I come with open arms. You either stamp the paperwork or you don't.

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:

I sometimes wonder: would I be welcome in a Muslim country? Would the people there welcome me, or would they see my Western exterior and instantly label me as "the enemy" because of it?

Just last week I saw a sister in the grocery store. I knew she was a sister because she was wearing hijab. She was Asian, probably Indonesian or Malaysian. Anyway, I walked by her and said "As salaamu alaykum". She mumbled something that I couldn't hear and looked uncomfortable, so I quickly left her alone.

I wonder now if I wasn't supposed to do that. I wonder now if she somehow mistook my greeting as me mocking her. I have already asked Allah to forgive me and that she will forgive me, for such was not my intention.

I wonder now if such would be the reaction I would get anywhere else I go.

I wonder now if I am destined to walk this world alone, forever trapped between two worlds, always destined to be on the fringe of both.

 

[ShahnazZ]

Lol Brother, she probably mumbled "Wa alaikum assalam". That's how we women do it. At least how I do it.

That's how I was raised and what I've been taught. It's generally got to do with the whole free mixing thing. When a brother says salam to me, I say it back but I don't really make eye contact with them nor do I say it too loudly. Sometimes, when a sister smiles at a brother while saying salam, irrespective of her intentions, others are quick to label her as "too bold". This is cultural as well.

The whole idea of a Muslim woman lowering her gaze, you know? Along with her eyes, it's in her tone as well. She can't be too friendly because that could "tarnish" her rep (according to cultural norms) and yet she has to respond because we must return a Muslim's greeting. That's why it comes out as mumbling. She probably didn't want to appear too forward by smiling at you and so in the hopes that she observes modesty, she made sure her voice wasn't too high, either.

Definitely do NOT be intimidated by it. I have no doubt she was pleased that a Muslim said salam to her. I know I always am and it's even nicer when they're complete strangers

 

[Just a Guy]

Lol Brother, she probably mumbled "Wa alaikum assalam". That's how we women do it. At least how I do it.

That's how I was raised and what I've been taught. It's generally got to do with the whole free mixing thing. When a brother says salam to me, I say it back but I don't really make eye contact with them nor do I say it too loudly.

The whole idea of a Muslim woman lowering her gaze, you know? Along with her eyes, it's in her tone as well. That's why it comes out as mumbling. She probably didn't want to appear too forward by smiling at you and so in the hopes that she observes modesty, she made sure her voice wasn't too high.

Definitely do NOT be intimidated by it. I have no doubt she was pleased that a Muslim said salam to her. I know I always am and it's even nicer when they're complete strangers

:salam2:

Well, it was pointed out on another board by another sister when I mentioned this. She might have felt uncomfortable being approached by a strange man. I can see that now that she mentioned it. I am so used to being in a free Western culture where men don't even think about approaching strange women and vice versa. I sometimes forget that I am not supposed to do those things and it bothers me.

 

[ShahnazZ]

What happens is this: When we use the terms of those who are running the show, the white majority, we in essence take on their ideology. They are the ones who denote people by color. When a white person calls someone dark skinned trust me that is saying a whole lot.

I see what you're saying but I would still like to know how to describe people from a purely observational point of basis without knowing anything else about them.

And what about those of us that aren't white?

There are many immigrants who make the mistake of taking on the language of the White man. When they take on the language they are also taking on the culture and its prejudices.

Well I'm not an immigrant. I do agree with your statement regarding immigrants and that it applies to them. However, as someone who abhors all forms of racism, whenever I use such terms I use them from a purely observational perspective. It isn't meant to demean anyone and I do believe our intentions count for something.

 

[ShahnazZ]

Well, it was pointed out on another board by another sister when I mentioned this. She might have felt uncomfortable being approached by a strange man. I can see that now that she mentioned it. I am so used to being in a free Western culture where men don't even think about approaching strange women and vice versa. I sometimes forget that I am not supposed to do those things and it bothers me.

Don't take it to heart, brother. I mean, I get what they might mean. Like if the woman was a foreigner then it might make sense since, coming from her country of origin, they're not exactly used to strange men walking up to them and saying salam. Like I stated, it's considered a bit of a taboo for free mixing to occur in public (without the woman having her relative that is) and so a strange man saying salam to her kind of emphasizes that.

I guess me and others like me are different because we too were raised with western culture around us and so it's not a big deal to us when men we don't know say salam to us. I get it all the time and so do my friends. It's also very common in colleges.

No biggie. Don't beat yourself up over it. If anything, you do what you do for the pleasure of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and no one else. He rewards you for your intention. Don't worry too much about the reactions of others if you're doing the right thing.

 

[ShahnazZ]

The idea of being stranded in Pakistan is horrifying. I mean, I do like Pakistan and I like Pakistanis...But I dont know Urdu, we have no family there..Its a very scared scenario for me.

But i know things like this happen in reality...

I think that applies to any country. Pakistan is constantly villified in the media and so alot of Westerners are pretty scared of the idea of it. Extremism is always portrayed, along with archaic mentalities, patriarchal ways of life and criminals galore.

I'll tell you one thing. The media exaggerates like WHOA. They'll take one death and turn it into seventeen. Trust me. That's not saying one is enough. There's just a significant difference between one and seventeen.

I'd be scared too if any other country was portrayed like that.

But honestly for me, I'd be scared being stranded in ANY country on my own.

 

[Just a Guy]

I see what you're saying but I would still like to know how to describe people from a purely observational point of basis without knowing anything else about them.

And what about those of us that aren't white?



Well I'm not an immigrant. I do agree with your statement regarding immigrants and that it applies to them. However, as someone who abhors all forms of racism, whenever I use such terms I use them from a purely observational perspective. It isn't meant to demean anyone and I do believe our intentions count for something.

:salam2:

Well here's the other thing. Even those immigrants who assimilate, learn the culture and speak the language are still on the fringe of mainstream society. There is still an underlying current of subconscious racism whether or not we admit it. Those who assimilate are unfortunately ostracized by both their fellow immigrants who maintain their own identity and the natives born here.

As a white male, I am very cautious about how I describe someone of another race or culture. Some minorities are VERY quick to describe white people as "racist" because they know that it scares us, and they have some power by throwing that word around.

Believe it or not, I have met African-Americans who get offended if I call them "black people". I don't get mad if you say I am a white guy. That's what I am and I can't change that. I call myself the "Angry White Guy" as you know.

 

[Just a Guy]

Don't take it to heart, brother. I mean, I get what they might mean. Like if the woman was a foreigner then it might make sense since, coming from her country of origin, they're not exactly used to strange men walking up to them and saying salam. Like I stated, it's considered a bit of a taboo for free mixing to occur in public (without the woman having her relative that is) and so a strange man saying salam to her kind of emphasizes that.

I guess me and others like me are different because we too were raised with western culture around us and so it's not a big deal to us when men we don't know say salam to us. I get it all the time and so do my friends. It's also very common in colleges.

No biggie. Don't beat yourself up over it. If anything, you do what you do for the pleasure of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and no one else. He rewards you for your intention. Don't worry too much about the reactions of others if you're doing the right thing.

:salam2:

Well that does make me feel a little better, because my intention was to show support and let the sister know that not all of us hate Islam. I just hope she doesn't recognize me on judgment day and tell Allah that I was mocking her, because I was not. Allah knows that I was not.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sometimes it is better to omit unnecessary adjectives. Hijabi woman is redundant.

It is a matter of perspective in life. If you say I am this and so and so is that you have made division from that person. I wonder why we do that. If we call some one dark-skinned, we must by definition call others light-skinned.

Observational basis as you say also implies a bias. We are observing with a particular set of values. I question and this is a biggie whose values. They are not Islamic values.

This is not personal. This is a way we use language. It is an example of how we are conditioned by our culture to divide races of people.

 

[alf2]

I think that applies to any country. Pakistan is constantly villified in the media and so alot of Westerners are pretty scared of the idea of it. Extremism is always portrayed, along with archaic mentalities, patriarchal ways of life and criminals galore.

I'll tell you one thing. The media exaggerates like WHOA. They'll take one death and turn it into seventeen. Trust me. That's not saying one is enough. There's just a significant difference between one and seventeen.

I'd be scared too if any other country was portrayed like that.

But honestly for me, I'd be scared being stranded in ANY country on my own.

If English or Spanish is the primary language, I would be more at ease. At least then I would know whats going on

Also, when I want to see Pakistani news I dont bother with Western Sources. I read Geo.Tv

 

[islamirama]

:salam2:

Well that does make me feel a little better, because my intention was to show support and let the sister know that not all of us hate Islam. I just hope she doesn't recognize me on judgment day and tell Allah that I was mocking her, because I was not. Allah knows that I was not.

Most hijabis don't talk to strangers, be they Muslims or not. The modern ones will, otherwise the religious practicing ones will not unless they need to ask for something (like directions) or the other person is asking for some kind of help or information.

Although Islam does not prohibit talking to opposite gender, only limits it with guidelines of interaction. Most islam practicing women prefer to avoid that interaction unless there is a need. Saying "salam" to someone like that by a male will get a reply back but she'll be thinking, couldn't you find a brother to give salams to, why you approaching me... even mahrams (fathers, brothers, husband) think the same as well...just being protective.

If English or Spanish is the primary language, I would be more at ease. At least then I would know whats going on

Also, when I want to see Pakistani news I dont bother with Western Sources. I read Geo.Tv

English is a second language in most of those countries so well over majority will be speaking english. And in today's times with cultural invasion of the west over the east, just about everybody there speaks english. They even joke around saying they should go to america to go to a less modern nation...

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

Just last week I saw a sister in the grocery store. I knew she was a sister because she was wearing hijab. She was Asian, probably Indonesian or Malaysian. Anyway, I walked by her and said "As salaamu alaykum". She mumbled something that I couldn't hear and looked uncomfortable, so I quickly left her alone.

I wonder now if I wasn't supposed to do that. I wonder now if she somehow mistook my greeting as me mocking her. I have already asked Allah to forgive me and that she will forgive me, for such was not my intention.

:salam2:

No, like sis Shahnazz, I too would just have mumbled 'wa alaikum assalam'. It's just how hijabis are, so don't take offense - I'm sure she wouldn't have thought you were mocking her.

I remember once, I was shopping by myself in a mall, and whilst looking at some stuff at a stall, (and I was sincerely thinking of buying something), the stall owner came up all smiling and said salaam to me. I just mumbled walaikumassalam and then moved away, not buying anything, because I just thought it was too forward of the guy to come up and say salaam and made me uncomfortable.

Generally when I'm out, I keep to myself, unless I *need* to talk to someone to ask something. And I'm sure most practicing muslimahs are like this.

that's weird. never heard about this kind of scenarios before
hope your aunt will be able to go back soon. ( wait isn't her few months old daughter an US citizen? then why are they doing that?)

No, I've seen tons of cases like this. There's this one incident that happened to a neighbour/friend of mine. When she got married in India, her to-be-husband had travelled from the US, taking a month's leave at his workplace to come and get married. After the wedding, he went to the US Embassy to get the visa for his wife, but something happened and they wouldn't even allow *him* to go back. He had to wait for months and months and months, and he subsequently lost his job in the US. After a year's time, they allowed him and wife to go back.

And this is just one story. I've actually heard a lot of stories like this. My aunt who's here and stuck, her husband is still in the US, and he can't take a lengthy enough leave from work to come and argue her case as the economy is so bad and he can't take so much time off. But point is, these things are happening.

 

[Precious Star]

:salam2:

Well, it was pointed out on another board by another sister when I mentioned this. She might have felt uncomfortable being approached by a strange man. I can see that now that she mentioned it. I am so used to being in a free Western culture where men don't even think about approaching strange women and vice versa. I sometimes forget that I am not supposed to do those things and it bothers me.

I don't wear hijab, but when I see a woman wearing hijab I try to make eye contact and smile, and say salaams. Usually she may meet my glance but then quickly averts her eyes. Honestly, this has happened so many times I've lost count!

Also, when I'm shopping alone, I'm kinda oblivious to others, so if another muslim thought i was muslim and tried to talk to me, I probably wouldn't notice or I'd just be in a hurry to get my task done, and not even realize that I may be offending a fellow muslim.

So don't be offended or feel bad. You did the right thing, and we're just speculating about her response, really.

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:

Well if I ever see the sister again, I'll just leave her alone. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable if I can help it.