London axe murder

[Precious Star]

My Islam does not condone killing another human being.
My Islam does not condone hacking someone into pieces in broad daylight.
My Islam does not permit someone to say Allahu Akbar after chopping and murdering someone.

What is happening to Muslims...

Will the Muslim community of London and all of UK please rise and come forward and defend Islam, and curse the man who savagely murdered the person on the streets of London???

 

[Janaan]

Innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji`oon.

I'm just hearing of this right now. What is the matter with them?!!! Seriously! I think they've been possessed by jinn (na`oodhu billaah) because no sane person (scratch that, no Muslim) would ever, ever do that!

This is beyond disgusting and disgraceful!


I still cannot believe this...my heart is still beating a little too fast! Subhaanallaah!
I am speechless.

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

assalamu alaykum,

"..if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!" [Surat al-Ma'idah verse 32]

May Allah guide us all!

 

[Hassan]

He might have thought this was jihad, but to me it was murder. naAudhu billah.

The problem with retaliation is that it justifies further retaliation. Violence breeds violence. Astaghfirullah.

 

[Mabsoot]

He might have thought this was jihad, but to me it was murder. naAudhu billah.

The problem with retaliation is that it justifies further retaliation. Violence breeds violence. Astaghfirullah.

Definitely murder. It is sickening and upsetting. The media keeps repeating how the men shouted "Allahu Akbar".

One of the murderers was a revert who ended up being mixed up with al Muhajiroon group.

 

[Mabsoot]

My Islam does not condone killing another human being.
My Islam does not condone hacking someone into pieces in broad daylight.
My Islam does not permit someone to say Allahu Akbar after chopping and murdering someone.

What is happening to Muslims...

Will the Muslim community of London and all of UK please rise and come forward and defend Islam, and curse the man who savagely murdered the person on the streets of London???

Do not wish to condone what happened, but did you know recently a 70 year old Muslim pensioner was stabbed on the way home from a mosque in Birmingham. He was knifed with such force the weapon passed through his body, he bled to death in the street. It got minimal press coverage, and Muslims did not go out in the street attacking pubs and churches (Last night around 70 EDL supporters were in the streets looking to find Muslims, and a few Mosques were attacked). Whoever murdered the Muslim man has not been caught, and few people know it even happened. It was very likely a racially motivated attack, because he was Muslim.

Mohammed Saleem (rahimahullah)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22348820

 

[Hajjerr]

Salam aleikum

Incidents like this and the subjectivism of media make it hard to defend islam. Unless people do a personal research, most start to hate muslims and what they represent.

I heard the pm David Cameron talking and defending in some way the muslim community, blaming only the sick individuals...but more has to be done, more good and forgiving actions from our side.
May Allah help us.

 

[Precious Star]

Do not wish to condone what happened, but did you know recently a 70 year old Muslim pensioner was stabbed on the way home from a mosque in Birmingham. He was knifed with such force the weapon passed through his body, he bled to death in the street. It got minimal press coverage, and Muslims did not go out in the street attacking pubs and churches (Last night around 70 EDL supporters were in the streets looking to find Muslims, and a few Mosques were attacked). Whoever murdered the Muslim man has not been caught, and few people know it even happened. It was very likely a racially motivated attack, because he was Muslim.

Mohammed Saleem (rahimahullah)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22348820

 

[Hassan]

... did you know recently a 70 year old Muslim pensioner was stabbed on the way home from a mosque in Birmingham...

Mohammed Saleem (rahimahullah)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22348820

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon. Yes, I heard of this. May Allah swt grant him Jannah, and ease the grief of his family and community.

One of the murderers was a revert ...

Why do reverts get involved in these kind of things? I do not know that brother, but so often there is a revert involved. Not always leading, but has just fallen in with people.

Yet somehow muslims in the West are learning to be violent, violent, violent. They kill other people and then justify it on the basis of Islam.

In my opinion, it is the West in general that is violent, but yes, muslims should know better. The real issue is the media, and I think that is why Br Mabsoot referred to the killing in Birmingham. They can report many stories in a fairly mild way, but if a muslim is a perpetrator, they go into a frenzy.

There is a rise in right-wing nationalism going on in England. Money is getting tight, and people are looking to put the blame somewhere, or even just to lash out to make themselves feel they do something about their unhappiness. The European Union as an institution is the target for many. But anyone different is liable to be noticed. And I shouldn't need to go into how muslims are different.

What Sr Hajjerr says is spot on.

Allah Hafiz

 

[Mabsoot]

What does that have to do with this attack?

We are muslims. We do not kill people. The person who killed the pensioner was likely not a muslim. Why are you even raising this???.

I am raising this given the different type of press coverage. Why should one death be ignored, whilst another is internationalised. A lot of Americans and people around the world will know about what happened in London, but few will know about the hate attacks against Muslims. This paints a one-sided picture, where all Muslims are construed as violent and hateful. A more broad, balanced media approach would show that what happened were two individuals out of millions, just as the few white, Christian men who burn mosques, put faeces through the letter boxes of Muslims, and who stab to death defenceless old Muslim men.

As Muslims we are against the violence and fanaticism shown by a few individuals. We are the only ones asked to speak up, to apologise even, for something we have nothing to do with.

Yet somehow muslims in the West are learning to be violent, violent, violent. They kill other people and then justify it on the basis of Islam.

No they are not. What are the statistics of hate crimes, murders, terrorism as compared to other sections of society?

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

Assalamu alaykum,

Sometimes reverts learn the deen from wrong sources and start to think that 'jihad' can be applied anywhere, whenever they like. That's why it's so important to learn Islam from authentic sources and from real people of knowledge!

 

[Precious Star]

I am raising this given the different type of press coverage. Why should one death be ignored, whilst another is internationalised. A lot of Americans and people around the world will know about what happened in London, but few will know about the hate attacks against Muslims. This paints a one-sided picture, where all Muslims are construed as violent and hateful. A more broad, balanced media approach would show that what happened were two individuals out of millions, just as the few white, Christian men who burn mosques, put faeces through the letter boxes of Muslims, and who stab to death defenceless old Muslim men.

As Muslims we are against the violence and fanaticism shown by a few individuals. We are the only ones asked to speak up, to apologise even, for something we have nothing to do with.


No they are not. What are the statistics of hate crimes, murders, terrorism as compared to other sections of society?

But the issue of "press coverage" is different from the issue of a muslim chopping up another human being on the streets of London and shouting "Allahu Akbar". They are completely different issues. If Muslims disagree with press coverage, then that should be discussed but not in a forum that questions Muslim behaviour.

For myself, I have been raised to believe that muslims are morally upright compared to "other segments of society". Furthermore, muslims always publicly declare that we are better than others. As such, when crimes like this happen "in the name of Allah", we should be ashamed and speak up. Why? Because that is not who we are. This is not about the press, it is about muslims killing "innocents". The people in Boston were all innocent, including the children. The soldier who was beheaded on the streets of London - should that have occurred? Should 911 have occurred?

I know all of you are going to say that the US and UK kill muslims in their countries every day but we are BETTER than they are. We should be setting an example. When we go around killing people, we make Islam look bad. It is the worst kind of dawah possible.

You have to recognize that this is not just an ordinary crime that if the perpetrator was nonmuslim no one would pay attention. This person was beheaded in public and then the murdered publicly declared it to be in the name of Allah. THAT is why we as muslims should be concerned, because we are supposed to be morally upright so when a muslim commits a crime of this nature it is going to draw the public's attention. They are laughing at us, jeering at us, calling us violent and backward. Do you really think that is going to change now? 911, Boston, the train plot in Canada (the 2 charged are appearing in court today), the London underground bombings, Madrid bombings, and now this. The world is viewing Islam as a brutal, violent religion, and muslims are staying quiet about it and just blaming the media.

 

[Precious Star]

Assalamu alaykum,

Sometimes reverts learn the deen from wrong sources and start to think that 'jihad' can be applied anywhere, whenever they like. That's why it's so important to learn Islam from authentic sources and from real people of knowledge!

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

Most muslim terrorists are not reverts.

Assalamu Alaykum,

I'm answering the question posed by brother Hassan (read above please). And I didn't talk about terrorism or terrorists rather wrong aqeedah.

 

[Mabsoot]

muslims are staying quiet about it and just blaming the media.

We are not quiet about it. How is our voice heard? What are you doing that is different to what we are doing? There are over a billion Muslims around the world, we can not be held responsible for the actions of each one. We can speak out against what they do and do more to educate Muslims and find those who are disaffected to try and make them see sense.

The media is the communication medium for most people to gain knowledge about the world around them. Often imams speak out against this extremism, we have done so on TTI many times. I have written letters to newspapers in the past, which were not answered properly.

I think we should make our own voice, this is the reason TTI was made in the beginning. Our line was always "Correcting common misconceptions about Islam". In sha Allah, that is what we shall do.

 

[Janaan]

Assalaamu `alaikum warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuh.

Sister Precious Star, I see nothing wrong with brother Mabsoot sharing that bit of news with us. If it weren't for him, I don't believe some of us would have discovered it on our own. (I guess maybe you're not pleased with the fact he had to share it on 'your' thread?)

I absolutely agree with you that those guys' actions are not from Islaam. That was not an action of a believer in Allaah and the Last day! And yes, we can do much, much better that this!

But you see, this anger and grief you're feeling because those lunatics butchered an innocent man...you should be feeling the same or even double that when it comes to a Muslim.
Yes we must feel sadness and be concerned when any human being has been unjustifiably murdered, but don't forget the bond of is thicker than blood.
That miskeen 70 year old man deserves our du`aa. But your reaction instead of innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji`oon is,

Why are you even raising this???

I don't think Muslims should be going to protest against this to 'defend' Islaam. That is not necessary. It will result in receiving more backlash from non-Muslims because some Muslims clearly do not understand what peaceful protesting means (they take it as an opportunity to shout out slogans and filthy words). We need to lead by action. So, just because a few of us do wrong does not give anyone the right to categorize the rest of us right along with them. There will be people who will always have something negative to say about Islaam. We can't please everyone. We just have to make it clear to anyone we come across that we do not condone such actions. We are way above that.

May Allaah `azza wa jall have mercy on us, we've neglected our duties and transgressed against His slaves.

 

[Precious Star]

Assalaamu `alaikum warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuh.

Sister Precious Star, I see nothing wrong with brother Mabsoot sharing that bit of news with us. If it weren't for him, I don't believe some of us would have discovered it on our own. (I guess maybe you're not pleased with the fact he had to share it on 'your' thread?)

I absolutely agree with you that those guys' actions are not from Islaam. That was not an action of a believer in Allaah and the Last day! And yes, we can do much, much better that this!

But you see, this anger and grief you're feeling because those lunatics butchered an innocent man...you should be feeling the same or even double that when it comes to a Muslim.
Yes we must feel sadness and be concerned when any human being has been unjustifiably murdered, but don't forget the bond of is thicker than blood.
That miskeen 70 year old man deserves our du`aa. But your reaction instead of innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji`oon is,


May Allaah `azza wa jall have mercy on us, we've neglected our duties and transgressed against His slaves.

 

[uniqueskates]

But the subject of my grief and anger right now is why are muslims doing it and then citing Islam as the impetus. That is what is disturbing, and that is why muslims in the west should be more proactive in being vocal about this.

Why are Muslims doing it? - Well, Firstly, There is a huge gap between Islam and "Muslims", I believe you would agree with that. Secondly, Our aqeedah is messed up and for some it is very badly messed up. Thirdly, we like pointing fingers, don't we? Makes us feel good when we pass the buck to others. Lastly, The reason I can come up with is that a Muslim may get caught with a person having wrong understanding of Islam and end up doing such things. [Personally, I think reverts are more vulnerable to it]

Proactive in being vocal? - We are scared. That is all I can think of. I can't tell much because I have not been to the west.

But sister, Media always plays an important role in shaping the mind of a human and it has a better reach worldwide & if media goes on telling Islam is "hate" and "violence" continuously, I don't think that it will take much time for people to link hatred with Islam (Which is totally the opposite of what Islam is!).

So my question is - How do you propose we be more vocal and proactive? And reach out to the audience worldwide and also be much effective than media?

Peace.

 

[Hajjerr]

Salam aleikum

So the response from president Obama in his speech regarding the civilian muslim deaths that fuel the conflicts:
part of it: ,

because much of the criticism about drone strikes -- at home and abroad -- understandably centers on reports of civilian casualties. There is a wide gap between U.S. assessments of such casualties, and non-governmental reports. Nevertheless, it is a hard fact that U.S. strikes have resulted in civilian casualties, a risk that exists in all wars. For the families of those civilians, no words or legal construct can justify their loss. For me, and those in my chain of command, these deaths will haunt us as long as we live, just as we are haunted by the civilian casualties that have occurred through conventional fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But as Commander-in-Chief, I must weigh these heartbreaking tragedies against the alternatives. To do nothing in the face of terrorist networks would invite far more civilian casualties -- not just in our cities at home and facilities abroad, but also in the very places -- like Sana'a and Kabul and Mogadishu -- where terrorists seek a foothold. Let us remember that the terrorists we are after target civilians, and the death toll from their acts of terrorism against Muslims dwarfs any estimate of civilian casualties from drone strikes..


Moreover, we must recognize that these threats don't arise in a vacuum. Most, though not all, of the terrorism we face is fueled by a common ideology -- a belief by some extremists that Islam is in conflict with the United States and the West, and that violence against Western targets, including civilians, is justified in pursuit of a larger cause. Of course, this ideology is based on a lie, for the United States is not at war with Islam; and this ideology is rejected by the vast majority of Muslims, who are the most frequent victims of terrorist acts..
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-w...ext-obama-speech-counterterrorism-may-23-2013

Maybe he can make some sense here, i understand his point, subhanAllah, i dont know much about the alternatives, but those ''civilian casualities'' are as important as any other life..and that is the problem.

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

Assalamu Alaykum,

The media are not trying to calm the situation, not here in London at least. It's the second day I've been adviced not to go out. A sister has been attacked yesterday and people just give dirty looks at Muslims. Again, the media are not helping, they just talk about 'terrorism' rather than explain this murder has no religion and let's remember that for those ignorant people who just follow tv and all the media: terrorism = Islam and Muslims.

Again, what we can do is first not to feel guilty 'cause again this is NOT our religion and 2 try our best to explain it to other people: whether the neighbour or the cashier at the supermarket! Trying to 'correct the common misconceptions about Islam' (as brother Mabsoot mentioned as well)