Misbah or fingers??

IHearIslam

make dua 4 ma finals
Assalamu Alaikum warahmatu Allah wabarakatuh dear brothers and sisters:D

I hope this reaches you in the BEST of health/imaaaaan:D

So, I had few question......

Which is better to use Misbah or your own fingers when doing dhikr???



I heard the prophet SalaAlahu Alahi wasalam used his fingers when he did dhikr why are other people using Misbah? and does that make the use of IT bida'a??
InshaAllah, I hope you can help me with this!:hearts:

Allah hafiz now and always:hearts:
 

salahdin

Junior Member
Wa akeikum musalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu.





A Reply To The Claims That Imaam As-Suyootee
Supported The Practice of Subhah

Prepared by Abu Khaliyl Ja'ad Ibn Sylvester

[The following is an objection regarding Subhah using Imaam As-Suyootee as a proof, which is answered by brother Abu Khaliyl]

QUESTION: "...My concern is focused on the article that was printed in the August 1997 issue. A Muslim asked a question regarding Dhikr bead, or subhah while reciting Tasbiyyah. The reply coming from Muhammad Al Jibaaly was that it was a Bid'ah. He further stated that the Prophet taught us to make tasbeeh with our right hand. "...My concern is focused on the article that was printed in the August 1997 issue. A Muslim asked a question regarding Dhikr bead, or subhah while reciting Tasbiyyah. The reply coming from Muhammad Al Jibaaly was that it was a Bid'ah. He further stated that the Prophet Muhammad taught us to make tasbeeh with our right hand.

Jalaal ud Deen As-Suyootee a famous Shaafi'ee Mujtahid Imaam, spoke on the subject in his book Al Haawi lil Fataawee, Shaykh As-Suyootee states, "Counting the times one says Subhaan Allaah on ones fingers is is superior to doing so on Dhikr beads because of the Hadeeth of Ibn Amr, though it has been said that if the person saying it is safe from mistakes, his fingers are better, however, if not, then saying it on Dhikr beads is more suitable." Shaykh As-Suyootee further states, "Some of the most renowned Muslims have used rosaries, those from whom the Religion is taken, and whom are relied upon, such as Abu Hurayrah who had a string with two thousand knots in it, and he did not used to sleep except after saying Subhaan Allaah on it twelve thousand times."

To say this practice is a Bid'ah is at the same time defaming the scholars who have practiced it over the centuries, Inshaa Allaah, in the future your publication will give all the opinions when answering a question, and if Ijmaa has not been established, then give the opinion of what the majority of the fuqahaa hold to."

ANSWER: May Allaah reward you, in response to your inquiry and statements, this servant of Allaah, who is in sure need of Him, and dependant upon Him, and who prays for those who preceded us in Faith would reply:

The claim that the one who makes the statements that Subhah is an innovation, has by that statement defamed the scholars who endorsed it, is not a fair statement, since most of the scholars who support it are aware that they have to try very hard to prove it is not an innovation. That is the reason that discussions about it normally take up so much space. This is due to the nature of innovation, that is a new thing. So, in order for those who support it as good, in order to prove that it is good, must argue that it is not in reality new. And when they present their argument, we do not consider their arguments as defamation against their opponents from amongst the scholars.

Even the noun, Subhah - from the linguistic point of view - was a fabrication of those who used it; Ibn Mandthoor said in Lisaan Al Arab, "The Subhah: Beads upon which one making tasbeeh, counts his tasbeeh. It is a new-fangled [muwalladah] word." In Taaj Al Aroos, az-Zubaydee said, "And it is a new-fangled [muwalladah] word, as was said by Al-Azhaaree..." That is, Muwalladah is a word formed by people who were using something, that there was no word before they made up their word for it. as explained by Al-Baghdaadee in Khazaanaat Al Arab.

This is according to the linguistic sense. As for the Sharee'ah sense, Allaah said (that which means):

"This day I have perfected your way of life for you, and have chosen Islaam as your Religion." [Al-Maa'idah 4]

So in general, any religious act that comes after the death of the Prophet as the Subhah clearly did, is an innovation. And the scholars of Ijtihaad are rewarded for their Ijtihaad nevertheless.

The hadeeth of Ibn Amr, which was referenced in the question should be noted for the benefit of the reader; Abdullaah Ibn Amr said, "I saw Allaah's messenger counting the tasbeeh on the right [hand]." Recorded by Abu Daawood, Tirmidthee and others, it is a well known Saheeh Hadeeth.

Yet, this is not the only Hadeeth from which the scholars determine what is better in this case. There is for example, whose grade is Hasan, and those who seek reward from their Lord may act on it, if space permits us to note it. The Prophet said to Yusayrah (r) that: "You must say the Tahleel, Tasbeeh, and the Taqdees. Do not forget it, or you will have forgotten the Mercy. And count them on the fingers for they will be questioned and interrogated."

And in one narration:

That the Prophet commanded them to count on their fingers, for they will be questioned and interrogated [about it]" This is a Hasan Hadeeth recorded by Ahmad, Abu Daawood, Ibn Abee Shaybah, and a number of others.

The great scholar, Suyootee May Allaah have mercy on him, noted that due to the hadeeth of Ibn Amr noted above, it is better to count the tasbeeh on ones fingers. Yet it should be obvious from the second Hadeeth that it is obligatory to do so. Like wise, the honourable scholar, as-Suyootee noted that "it has been said" (Qeelaa), that this is better if the person is safe from losing count, whereas if he is not safe from that, then the beads are more suitable. Then he gave the example of Abu Hurayrah. We ask Allaah to reward Imaam As-Suyootee for mentioning what has been said, and we do this out of sincerity.

As a note however, it should be noted that the report alluded to is not one that has been graded as Saheeh or Hasan, rather it's grade is weak. It is transmitted by way of Abdul Waahid Ibn Moosaa from Mu'aym Ibn Muharrar Ibn Abee Hurayrah from his grandfather [Abu Hurayrah], "That he had a string with one thousand knots on it and he would not sleep until he had done his Tasbeeh on it." There is another narration whose meaning he has combined into this statement about Abu Hurayrah, that is reported via Ikrimah from Abu Hurayrah that he said, "Astaghfrullaah" twelve thousand times, but this report is disconnected after Ikrimah, for he is not known by the Hadeeth Scholars to have actually heard from Abu Hurayrah. (See Al Inaabah by Ibn Hajar). Nevertheless, it does not mention Dhikr beads at all. So it has nothing to do with this discussion either way.

As for the narration about the string with Abu Hurayrah, it is weak because its chain contains Nu'aym Ibn Muharrar, whose condition among hadeeth narrators is that of an unknown. It is for this reason that what Suyootee labeled as "better" - is indeed better - May Allaah reward him - rather there is no authentic evidence to prove that it was commanded, and otherwise it would contradict the command, since it has not been authentically reported that the Prophet nor any of his companions used Dhikr beads. Furthermore, some of the companions and their followers were reported to have rejected alternatives to the fingers in this regard.

As for the Hadeeth reported on the Prophet on the authority of Alee (r) mentioning the Subhah (mentioned here in case one finds it being used as "evidence") it is a famous weak report. There is a very useful and helpful discussion of its unknown and fabricating narrators which may be viewed in Silsilah-Al-Ahaadeeth Ad Da'eefah no. 83 by Al Albaanee.

In summary, to anyone who allows the new-fangled Subhah which contradicts the command of the Prophet in this matter, we do not claim that these scholars have 'opposed' the Messenger ! Nor should anyone claim that those who enforce his command are defaming scholars by doing so.

As this discussion shows, there are many matters about which the scholars made differing statements about. If we were to quote all of their arguments and statements, we would just lead the people into confusion, regarding the way which is the way of the Sunnah. This is not the objective of our publication. On the other hand, it is also not our objective to be unfair and one sided. However, when the issue is centred around a great deal of "So and So" said, and debate, then only the most proven, and safest position can be endorsed, and the safe way is that of the command of the Messenger . It is he who we have been commanded to follow and obey in these matters, and in this case, he commanded counting the Tasbeeh on the fingers as was noted before. We ask Allaah to guide us to his way.



 

um muhammad al-mahdi

لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
Staff member
:salam2:

What is the ruling regarding the use of Al-Misbahah for glorification?

Answer:

We know of no precedence in the Shari'ah for the usage of beads for the Tasbih, so it is therefore better to limit ourselves to the Sunnah, which is to count the Tasbih using the fingers.

Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz
Fatawa Islamiyah, vol.8, p.368, DARUSSALAM
 

IHearIslam

make dua 4 ma finals
JazakaAllah khairan both of you for the answers:D

so, as I understand.....fingers are the way to go and Misbah is ok to use if you are afraid that you'll forget the counting, right?

JazakaAllah khairan again:D

Allah hafiz now and always:D
 

aaiwang

Junior Member
sister @*AmatuAllah4lyf*,
"use Misbah or your own fingers when doing dhikr", both of them it's good method,,, or other tool to easy dhikr! Wallahu'alam bish-shawab...
 

revert2007

Love Fishing
JazakaAllah khairan both of you for the answers:D

so, as I understand.....fingers are the way to go and Misbah is ok to use if you are afraid that you'll forget the counting, right?

JazakaAllah khairan again:D

Allah hafiz now and always:D
my husband told me that if u use tools other than ur own finger,the rewards will be less.i personally think finger is the best.for example if we are on a plane or outside the house and we use misbah,it is just kinda showing off .so prefer use finger and no one is gonna know except Allah.
 

um muhammad al-mahdi

لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
Staff member
sister @*AmatuAllah4lyf*,
"use Misbah or your own fingers when doing dhikr", both of them it's good method,,, or other tool to easy dhikr! Wallahu'alam bish-shawab...

:salam2:

please don't give your own fatwa! There are fatawa stating that the hands are Sunnah and al-Misbahah a bid'ah so let's not make our own interpretation of Islam a way to follow it for all!

:jazaak:

:salam2:
 

ahmed_indian

to Allah we belong
:salam2:

please don't give your own fatwa! There are fatawa stating that the hands are Sunnah and al-Misbahah a bid'ah so let's not make our own interpretation of Islam a way to follow it for all!

:jazaak:

:salam2:

scholars are divided over this issue. some say its permissible, some makrooh and some bidah.

but everybody agree that its better to do over fingers.

so if someone wants to use it, we cant stop that person if s/he agress with ulama who permits it.

there are also reports that some sahaba (ra) used pebbles.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/3009
 

aaiwang

Junior Member
dear sister @Ukht1,
My statement is not Fatwa, this is only pure my opinion, i mean that way to make dhikr we allowed use the tool what it present. Misbah or whatever to make dhikr, it's okay, with a basketfull of stone. Insha-Allah, of course Allah will no need Misbah or whatever tool to dhikr, but this is method for people who belief. CMIIW.

My sister, thanks your attention! Please forgive me if i'm wrong!
 

um muhammad al-mahdi

لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
Staff member
:salam2:



Al-Imaam Al-Albaanee (rahimahullaah) discusses Thikr beads

The Ruling of Al-Misbahah (Thikr beads)

Ash-Shaikh Muhammad Naasir ud-Deen Al-Albaanee said in As-Silsilah Adh-Dha’eefah (1/110) with his checking of the hadeeth "What a wonderful reminder the subhah (thikr beads) are." (A fabricated hadeeth):
Then, verily the hadeeth, in reference to its meaning, is false according to me for reasons:
The first: That the subhah (thikr beads) is an innovation that did not exist in the time of the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam ). It was only introduced after him (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), so how could it be thought that he encouraged his companions to do a matter that they did not even know (i.e. thikr beads were not known to them)? And the proof regarding what I have mentioned is what Ibn Wadhdhaah reported in " Al-Bida’ wan-Nahy ‘anhaa" (Innovations and the Prohibition of them), on the authority of As-Salt bin Bahraam that he said, "Ibn Mas’ood passed by a woman who had a tasbeeh (string of beads) with her that she was using to glorify Allaah, so he cut it and threw it away. Then he passed by a man who was glorifying Allaah using pebbles so he kicked them with his foot, then said, ‘Indeed you all have went ahead (of the companions), you have wrongfully engaged in an innovation, and indeed you have overcome the companions of Muhammad ( sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) in knowledge.’" And the chain of narrators of this narration is authentic (Saheeh) back to As-Salt, and he is reliable from the followers of the successors (Atbaa’ ut-Taabi’een , third generation).
The second: That it opposes his (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) guidance. ‘Abdullaah bin ‘Amr said, "I saw the Messenger of Allaah ( sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) counting the glorification of Allaah with his right hand."

And Al-Albaanee also said (1/117): And if there was nothing in the thikr beads other than one evil, and it is that it has overcome the Sunnah of counting with the fingers or it almost has – this is along with their agreement that the fingers are better – then this would be sufficient (as an evil). For verily it is rare that I see an old man counting the glorification of Allaah on his fingers!
Then, verily the people have become specialized in inventing things along with this innovation. So you will see some of those who attribute themselves to one of the Soofee paths hanging thikr beads around his neck! And some of them count (the remembrance of Allaah) while they are speaking to you or listening to you talk! And the last thing that my eye fell upon from that some days ago was that I saw a man on an ordinary bicycle riding along on it on some roads crowded with people, and in one of his hands was some thikr beads! So they try to show to the people that they are not heedless of the remembrance of Allaah even for the blinking of an eye. And often times this innovation is the cause of losing the performance of that which is obligatory, for indeed it has happened to me repeatedly – and likewise to others besides me – that I have given the greeting of Salaam (peace) to one of these people, so he responds to the greeting by waving without saying the Salaam. And the harms of this innovation cannot be counted, so how beautiful is the statement of the poet:
"And every good is in following those who went before (salafa),
and every evil is in the innovating of those who came after (khalafa)."

Source: As-Silsilah Adh-Dha’eefah, Vol. 1, no. 110, and no. 117
 

zinirah

Junior Member
:salam2:

Sister I think it is best if we take example from the prophet...unless you have a shortage of member that you lose count. Prayer beads are not a thing needed in prayer. Once I was traveling and I had to do at someone else home and they handed me beads for zikr like it was part of prayer. I rather use on my fingers. Also the Christians and the Yahudi use this. I don't think it is wrong, but try using your fingers.
 
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