10 year-old Leader?!!

[al-muslimah]

Salamalaycpom brothers and sisters. Hope you all are in good health and iman.

Have a Question here. I really do need an answer please.

When I pray I usually pray in Jama’ah with family and my father leads the prayer, The "Imam", I have a lil brother that stands beside my father when praying . He likes to copy my father in everything he does, so he always wants to be The Imam and leads us “ladies” when ever my father is at work or out the country.

I told my father about this but he doesn’t see anything wrong about it ,he replied “its ok, let him get used to it and inshallah when he grows up he’ll be a good Muslim, and besides he knows what to say and do while praying”..

Yesterday I was thinking “what if really my prayers I pray with my lil bro wont be accepted.. omg! what if I went to hell!! So I started kind of ignoring him but trying not to show. Today I wanted to pray . he saw me doing woudo so he said “Quickly come and pray I’ll start in a minute”!! I couldn’t tell him “No” coz I don’t want to hurt his feelings and mainly I know he’s gonna beet me up :lol:.. so while I was praying behind him , I was taking my own steps trying to show AS IF I was following him..haha.. at the last Roukou' ,I did it first.. before him ,then he discovered that I wasn’t following him ,he showed his anger while he was praying lol and he was like spying at me all the time ..till I finished praying!!! (He really wanted to start a fight) .. my bro is kind of a person that wants to feel that hes old enough to do grown up things and enough to be responsible about things and others.(Mashallah)

Do you think my prayers with him is accepted?! he knows what to recite and what to say and do exactly, but he’s YOUNG!!! A Ten year old lil boy and I’m 18!!!!!!

Hope I get answers. Thank you in advance.
walsalam

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

It is reported on the authority of `Amr Ibn Salamah, may Allaah be pleased with him that he said,

"When the fall of Makkah too place, all of the tribes began to embrace Islaam and my father was the first of my people to embrace Islaam, and when he arrived he said, "By Allaah, I have come to you from the true Prophet, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam and he said,

"Perform such-and-such prayer at such-and-such a time, and perform such-and-such a prayer at such-and-such a time; and when you come to prayer, one of you should make the adhaan and the best of you in recitation shoild lead you in prayer."​

So they looked, and found that none was better in recitation than I, due to what I had learnt from the camel riders, so they put me infront of them (as their Imaam) and my age was six or seven years."
[Al-Bukhaaree, Aboo Daawood and An-Nasaa'ee]

 

[al-muslimah]

It is reported on the authority of `Amr Ibn Salamah, may Allaah be pleased with him that he said,

"When the fall of Makkah too place, all of the tribes began to embrace Islaam and my father was the first of my people to embrace Islaam, and when he arrived he said, "By Allaah, I have come to you from the true Prophet, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam and he said,

"Perform such-and-such prayer at such-and-such a time, and perform such-and-such a prayer at such-and-such a time; and when you come to prayer, one of you should make the adhaan and the best of you in recitation shoild lead you in prayer."​

So they looked, and found that none was better in recitation than I, due to what I had learnt from the camel riders, so they put me infront of them (as their Imaam) and my age was six or seven years."
[Al-Bukhaaree, Aboo Daawood and An-Nasaa'ee]

So that means, My prayers with him was NOT accepted, since I know more recitation than him!!!!
I'm gonna let my bro know this and show him why its not allowed, that he leads us.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

It doesn't mean they are not accepted, it means the one who knows more Qur'aan has more right to lead. But of course you can only lead women in prayer. If you all pray as a family in congregation, and he is the only male then how can you lead a congregation without him leading?

 

[OsMaN_93]

i think that it is fine,no problem!!!
mashallah ,u should be proud
u didnt know so Allah (swt) would forgive you

 

[al-muslimah]

It doesn't mean they are not accepted, it means the one who knows more Qur'aan has more right to lead. But of course you can only lead women in prayer. If you all pray as a family in congregation, and he is the only male then how can you lead a congregation without him leading?

Because hes not a grown up yet and seriously when you see him he looks like a 7 year old. and its funny when you see a row of ladies praying behind him.

 

[massi]

:salam2:
Allah bless you and you brother MACH'a ALLAH




A boy leading a woman in prayer and vice versa

Question:
can my 7yr old lead me in salaah? can i lead him in salaah being his mother? note:he learnt how to pray by copying me and following me in salaah

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

It is OK for a boy who understands the prayer to lead others in prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “People should be led in prayer by the one who knows the most Qur’aan among them.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Masaajid wa Mawaadi’ al-Salaah, 1078). And it was narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari that ‘Amr ibn Salamah al-Jarami said: “My father came from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said that he had heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘When the time for prayer comes, let the one among you who knows the most Qur’aan lead you in prayer.’ They looked and they did not find anyone who knew more Qur’aan than me, so they made me lead them in prayer, and I was a boy of six or seven years.” (al-Maghaazi, 3963. See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/389-390)

The evidence to be found in the hadeeth is that these Sahaabah asked ‘Amr ibn Salamah to lead them in prayer when he was six or seven years old. This indicates that a boy who has reached the age of discernment can lead the prayers. If that were not permitted, there would have been Revelation to say that it was not allowed. (Ahkaam al-Imaamah wa’l-I’timaam fi’l-Salaah by ‘Abd al-Muhsin al-Muneef).

If your son fulfils all the conditions and obligations of the prayer, then there is nothing wrong with him leading you.

With regard to a woman leading a boy in prayer, this is not permissible, because he comes under the same rulings as a man. What is permitted is for a woman to lead other women in prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded Umm Waraqah bint ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Nawfal to lead the members of her household – i.e., the women – in prayer. (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Salaah, Imaamat al-Nisaa’, 500, Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Abi Dawood, 553).

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

It doesn't matter how funny it is or how young he looks, if it is allowed in the shari`ah then we accept it. The companions had a 6/7 year old lead them, did you read the full hadeeth? I know and have seen the people of the sunnah being lead by their 8 year old kids, and the companions who were of the best of mankind also did this.

Baarak Allaah feek for the fatwa.

 

[al-muslimah]

Subhanallah! i really didnt know this..so there is no problem him leading me.. Alhamdullah! Thankyou brother al kashmiri and brother massi for the fatwa.... Baraka allahu feekom..i'm gonna keep you in my prayers because you dont how much i was confused and concerned about this issue in that my prayers are accepted in the eye of allah or not..Alhamdullah!

i think that it is fine,no problem!!!
mashallah ,u should be proud
u didnt know so Allah (swt) would forgive you

Yup Alhamdullah I'm proud of my lil brother.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

Jazaakillaah kahyr, you're in mine also. Inshaa' Allaah you don't have to get worried about being beaten up or upsetting him anymore.

 

[samiha]

:salam2:

Yep. My little brother leads the Salah too when my father isn't around and things. (he's on tti, but I doubt he'll read this... so...)

Masha'allah I think it's really sweet to have that because it shows how he's changed. At first he was very hesitant and reluctant, but once he understood it was his responsibility then he was fine.

I think especially praying together brings family together. hehe... "The family that prays together stays together"

I really do believe that, because it just makes an understanding of where everyone stands. I'm older but i respect minchki for leading me, I may know more, but he's still go a status in the family and a duty over those he's leading. He makes a mistake he has to rectify it, or he has to be careful, because this is his job now.

Ok. Just ranting...

for the fatwa

wasalam

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

When I was 16 I went to my friends house, maa shaa Allaah the whole family prayed together, the first I'd seen! A shame that many of ours don't do the same.

 

[zainsmommy]

Can someone please explain something to me regarding this issue...

It is OK for a boy who understands the prayer to lead others in prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “People should be led in prayer by the one who knows the most Qur’aan among them.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Masaajid wa Mawaadi’ al-Salaah, 1078). And it was narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari that ‘Amr ibn Salamah al-Jarami said: “My father came from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said that he had heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘When the time for prayer comes, let the one among you who knows the most Qur’aan lead you in prayer.’ They looked and they did not find anyone who knew more Qur’aan than me, so they made me lead them in prayer, and I was a boy of six or seven years.” (al-Maghaazi, 3963. See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/389-390)

The evidence to be found in the hadeeth is that these Sahaabah asked ‘Amr ibn Salamah to lead them in prayer when he was six or seven years old. This indicates that a boy who has reached the age of discernment can lead the prayers. If that were not permitted, there would have been Revelation to say that it was not allowed. (Ahkaam al-Imaamah wa’l-I’timaam fi’l-Salaah by ‘Abd al-Muhsin al-Muneef).

If your son fulfils all the conditions and obligations of the prayer, then there is nothing wrong with him leading you.

With regard to a woman leading a boy in prayer, this is not permissible, because he comes under the same rulings as a man. What is permitted is for a woman to lead other women in prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded Umm Waraqah bint ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Nawfal to lead the members of her household – i.e., the women – in prayer. (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Salaah, Imaamat al-Nisaa’, 500, Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Abi Dawood, 553).

Concerning the first few lines in red....
It states that they should look around and find the one who knows the most Qur'an correct?
Then everyone looked around, noone else knew more Qur'an than the boy correct?

From what I gather with this is...
The only reason the boy lead that particular prayer was because he was the ONLY one who knew the MOST. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
So if it is time to pray...and she looks around the room for the one who knows the most, and it happens to be HER and not her Brother, than how does he get to lead when the only reason the prayer was lead in the above instance is because NO ONE ELSE KNEW MORE...not because he was a boy?

The other thing is...
The Mother teaches the son...then when he comes of age he leads because he is considered a man. This is something confusing and hard for me to accept...May Allah forgive me. But...it basically, IN MY OWN OPINION insinuates that the woman is not capable of praying correctly so if there is a man around...any man...even a child..then let him lead because she can't do it.
But yet, she is the one who taught the child how to pray in the first place???
I don't get it..
Please if someone can clear this up for me.

Thank you

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

The boy is leading in the instance when he is the one who knows the most Qur'aan as you stated. However, it is not for a woman to lead any jamaa`ah, hence the boy (in the sisters situation) is the suitable Imam (unless he wants to go pray on his own elsewhere and leave the jamaa`ah). The one who leads the people is an Imam, and there is no such thing as Imaamate for women in Islaam (over men), they can be scholars, shaykhas, fountains of knowledge but not as Imams or Ameers for the men.

Remember that in Islaam, men and women have different roles and responsibilites. Those responsibilites of leadership are for the men. So as a mother praying behind her son, in reality she is only further nurturing him into a man, who will eventually (inshaa' Allaah) be the head of the family, guardian, mahram and every other role a man has that require some kind of leadership characteristics.

I hope that makes sense to you, I don't think I worded it too great!

 

[zainsmommy]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

The boy is leading in the instance when he is the one who knows the most Qur'aan as you stated. However, it is not for a woman to lead any jamaa`ah, hence the boy (in the sisters situation) is the suitable Imam (unless he wants to go pray on his own elsewhere and leave the jamaa`ah). The one who leads the people is an Imam, and there is no such thing as Imaamate for women in Islaam (over men), they can be scholars, shaykhas, fountains of knowledge but not as Imams or Ameers for the men.

Remember that in Islaam, men and women have different roles and responsibilites. Those responsibilites of leadership are for the men. So as a mother praying behind her son, in reality she is only further nurturing him into a man, who will eventually (inshaa' Allaah) be the head of the family, guardian, mahram and every other role a man has that require some kind of leadership characteristics.

I hope that makes sense to you, I don't think I worded it too great!

JazakAllahu Khair ...Yes, it does make sense.
I appreciate you helping me with that.
May Allah bless you! :tti_sister:

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

Wa feeki Baarak.

Alhamdulillaah it was understood. Most cases I can think back to where there's a large number of sisters and they are about to pray, they pray their own jamaa`ah at the exclusion of the males in the household. Maybe it's due to space and fitnah amongst other reasons. Of course in nuclear family situations, they pray together.

 

[junaid hasan]

If the only one boy cant read quran correctly then shouldn´t other woman pray separtely and chosse a woman for their imam and that boy pray alone or in the mosque? i hope my question is clear

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

That is what I am thinking akhi Junaid, but this is why I said that in a nuclear family it is more undestandable then if there were strangers (non-mahram women). And of course, as you pointed out, the boy shouldn't miss the jamaa`ah in the masjid!

 

[Marwa17]

guys,
i understand where all of you are coming from
but i have a problem with how a bunch of you interpreted it the situation

in the prayer where he SPIED on her to see if she was praying right
i think that shows that HE was praying WRONG
if you get my drift
which caused HER to to think about him spying on her throughout her prayer

but personnaly, i don't think he's MATURE enough
and it's reflected in his prayer
he will get it one day, as your father said...however, right now, i don't know if he shoudl lead you

my mom never lets my ten year old brother lead her...i've never asked her WHY? exactly...but i've always thought it was the maturity thing

and guys, let's admit, kids today are so much less mature than they were before

so basically? is he helping or hurting?
does it do more good than bad?

sometimes, it's better to pray for that one good deed at get it, then lose it all...and if you pray jammah with your mom or other females...then you still get the reward...
why don't you just let HIM pray alone...he's ten anways,
it's not like he's reached puberty...

but, it's w/e you think is right...you had resignations before...
why? was it just the age thing?
or maybe WHO it is?
the personality?

 

[podolski11]

When I was 16 I went to my friends house, maa shaa Allaah the whole family prayed together, the first I'd seen! A shame that many of ours don't do the same.

this is a bad but i like to pray solo!