As Salamu 'Alakum,
The "followers of the teachings of Prophet Yeshua (PBUH) son of Marian" can be broken down into period of time. The Apostolic Era started with the catching away of The Prophet Yeshua (PBUH) to the death of Yochanan The Beloved. I contend that the followers of Allah's message as delivered by The Prophet Yeshua were probably not known as Christians originally. Although there was the need for instruction and correction by the Apostles for the most part the followers were trying to live according to Islam the religion of Abraham (Ibrahim). I am basing this on the book of Acts.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Yeshua (PBUH) had instructed the Apostles:
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
and we read in the book of Acts:
Act 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act 3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
Act 3:4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
Act 3:5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Act 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
Notice that Yeshua (PBUH) told them to take neither silver nor gold and Peter told the lame man that he had neither silver or gold. This is an important point. In my mind, it demonstrated a few important points:
1. They traveled without any silver or gold money because Yeshua (PBUH) told them not to take any with them.
2. If they were obedient unto this detail, why would they misunderstand the formula for baptism demonstrating acceptance of Allah's message as reiterated by Yeshua the son of Marian. And, if they didn't, then the next to the last verse of the last chapter of Matthew was obviously a latter addition:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Because we read in Acts and else where that the Apostles never baptized anyone using that formula:
Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:14 And the apostles who were in Jerusalem, having heard that Samaria had received the word of God, sent to them Peter and John;
Act 8:15 who, having come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;
Act 8:16 for he was not yet fallen upon any of them, only they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17 Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of the Lord. Then they begged him to stay some days.
Act 19:4 And Paul said, John indeed baptised with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him that was coming after him, that is, on Jesus.
Act 19:5 And when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus.
Again, in my mind this shows that first the Apostles baptized in the Name of Yeshua and not in the trinitarian formula used today. It also demonstrates that what is refered to as the Holy Spirit was not a person of the God head for the Apostles were able to bestow It and most certainly that could not be the case with God. And, baptism was a way to show that a person was following the teaching of "yochanan" or Yeshua and possibly to remind the Jews how they past through the Red Sea when brought out of Egypt.
And, Paul said he was a follower of the Sect known as the Nazarenes and not as a Christian.
Act 24:5 For finding this man a pest, and moving sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a leader of the sect of the Nazaraeans
Act 24:10 But Paul, the governor having beckoned to him to speak, answered, Knowing that for many years thou hast been judge to this nation, I answer readily as to the things which concern myself.
Act 24:11 As thou mayest know that there are not more than twelve days since I went up to worship at Jerusalem,
Act 24:12 and neither in the temple did they find me discoursing to any one, or making any tumultuous gathering together of the crowd, nor in the synagogues, nor in the city;
Act 24:13 neither can they make good the things of which they now accuse me.
Act 24:14 But this I avow to thee, that in the way which they call sect, so I serve my fathers' God, believing all things which are written throughout the law, and in the prophets;
Act 24:15 having hope towards God, which they themselves also receive, that there is to be a resurrection both of just and unjust.
Act 28:21 And they said to him, For our part, we have neither received letters from Judaea concerning thee, nor has any one of the brethren who has arrived reported or said anything evil concerning thee.
Act 28:22 But we beg to hear of thee what thou thinkest, for as concerning this sect it is known to us that it is everywhere spoken against.
Act 28:23 And having appointed him a day many came to him to the lodging, to whom he expounded, testifying of the kingdom of God, and persuading them concerning Jesus, both from the law of Moses and the prophets, from early morning to evening.
Act 28:24 And some were persuaded of the things which were said, but some disbelieved.
Act 28:25 And being disagreed among themselves they left; Paul having spoken one word, Well spoke the Holy Spirit through Esaias the prophet to our fathers,
Act 28:26 saying, Go to this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear and not understand, and seeing ye shall see and not perceive.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people has become fat, and they hear heavily with their ears, and they have closed their eyes; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known to you therefore, that this salvation of God has been sent to the nations; *they* also will hear it .
Act 28:29 And he having said this, the Jews went away, having great reasoning among themselves.
Deu 18:15 Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him shall ye hearken;
Deu 18:16 according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 A prophet will I raise up unto them from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass that the man who hearkeneth not unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Now, Church History documents that the first mention of the trinity was by Tertullian who falls in the period prior to The Roman Catholic Church and the Council of Nicea. And this period extended from 170 to 325, just as Yusuf Estes stated on The Deen Show when he said around the third Century.
According to Church Historian and Theologian David Bernard this period can be divided into three schools of thoughts and were founded by six or so primary individuals:
"Three Major Schools
To analyze the Old Catholic Age, we will divide it into
three schools of thought classified roughly along geographical
lines. The first school is that of Asia Minor, and
its two main representatives were Irenaeus and Hippolytus.
Both men originated in Asia Minor, although they
conducted their careers elsewhere. Irenaeus moved to
Gaul, where he became the bishop of Lyons (178-200), so
he may reflect more the thinking in the western portion of
Roman Empire. His onetime disciple Hippolytus (170-
235) worked in Rome.
The second school we will discuss is that of North
63
The Old Catholic Age
Africa, where the primary language was Latin. The foremost
theologian of this area was Tertullian (150-225),
who began writing around 196. He was followed by his
disciple Cyprian. Tertullian never held a prominent official
position in the church—he was just a presbyter (local
minister)—but Cyprian became bishop of Carthage (248-
58) only two years after his baptism. Tertullian and, in the
next age, Augustine were the two most influential shapers
of Western theology.
The third school of thought was based in Alexandria,
Egypt, which was a major center of Hellenistic (Greek)
culture and philosophy. A leading thinker here was
Clement of Alexandria (150-215). After his death he
was eclipsed in significance by his disciple Origen (185-
254), who began writing around 215. These men conducted
a school for converts in Alexandria, and both were
heavily influenced by the prevalent Greek philosophy.
Origen was a prominent teacher and writer, although neither
he nor Clement ever rose above the office of presbyter.
Origen was the single most important molder of
Eastern theology.
The six men we have mentioned did more than anyone
else to shape the doctrines that emerged from their
age. As just noted, however, most of them never held a
prominent position in the church; their influence came
primarily by teaching and writing. In some cases, their
historical influence has been greater than their influence
during their own time" (A History of Christian Doctrine; Volume 1, pages 63 and 64)
Now, let's look at some of the saying from the Bible that are attributed to Yeshua the Messiah ("The anointed one" as Yasu'a Al-Masih ):
Joh 7:16 Jesus therefore answered them and said, My doctrine is not mine, but that of him that has sent me
Joh 14:24 He that loves me not does not keep my words; and the word which ye hear is not mine, but that of the Father who has sent me.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken from myself, but the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what I should say and what I should speak;
So, here Yeshua (PBUH) said the message that he delivered was not from him (PBUH).
And, please, don't get hung up on the term Father. We know that Allah was not the physical father of Yeshua:
"And thou [Moses] shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born." (Exodus 4:22),
"He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be my son." (II Samuel 7:13-14),
"Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God"(Luke3: 38).
Did Yeshua claim to have the power of Allah?
Joh 5:30 I cannot do anything of myself; as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my will, but the will of him that has sent me.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Yeshua quoted the Torah, The Prophets, and Psalms and Proverbs or in other words The Tanakh. He taught what the Tanakh of the Jews taught:
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Psa 86:10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
Psa 86:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
Psa 86:12 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Many of the place in the New Testament where the translators inserted Lord (notice that it is not LORD which is significant) the word would have better been translated Master or Rabbi.
God is not a man nor the Son of Man:
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Finally, We Muslims are sometimes guilty of wanting to show that Muhammad (Salla Allahu "Alayhi Wa Sallem) was a Prophet that we sometimes, probably, inadvertently, cast a negative light on Yeshua the Messiah. We say things like "Jesus said he would cause division, but Muhammad brought unity." Yes, Yeshua (PBUH) did say that the message that he brought would cause strife:
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
But, are there any reverts in Islam who have experienced this same phenomena?
A prophet is a man anointed by Allah. Adam was a Prophet, and the line of Prophets both Major and Minor continued through Moses and Yeshua and Muhammad (PBUT). I love Muhammad (PBUH) and Yeshua (PBUH) and Elizah (PBUH) and every messenger sent from Allah to remind the people that there purpose is to worship Allah.
I watched some videos on Ageedah last night. I am new to Islam and need to learn Ageedah, and Al Qur'an, and Hadith and Sunnah, and Arabic and so much more. I am not knowledgeable enough yet to explain Islam other than to point to what I have learned thus far. Insha Allah, I will learn Al Qur'an and know it like I know The Bible.
But, I know that Allah changes not and His Message doesn't change. From Adam to Abraham (Ibrahim) to Moses, to Yeshua to Muhammad (PBUT) the message of Allah has not changed.
Ashhadu Anla-Ilaha IllAllah! La Ilaha Illallah. The Prophets (PBUT) are different from one period to another but the Messengers' Message is alway the same.
La Illaha Illallah.
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Those unto whom We have given the Scripture, who read it with the right reading, those believe in it. And whoso disbelieveth in it, those are they who are the losers. (121) O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures. (122) And guard (yourselves) against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will compensation be accepted from it, nor will intercession be of use to it; nor will they be helped. (123) And (remember) when his Lord tried Abraham with (His) commands, and he fulfilled them, He said: Lo! I have appointed thee a leader for mankind. (Abraham) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said: My covenant includeth not wrong-doers. (124) And when We made the House (at Mecca) a resort for mankind and sanctuary, (saying): Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying): Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship). (125) And when Abraham prayed: My Lord! Make this a region of security and bestow upon its people fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day, He answered: As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey's end! (126) And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower. (127) Our Lord! And make us submissive unto Thee and of our seed a nation submissive unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful. (128) Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Thy revelations, and shall instruct them in the Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them grow. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, Wise. (129) And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself? Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous. (130) When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! he said: I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds. (131) The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him). (132) Or were ye present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons: What will ye worship after me? They said: We shall worship thy God, the God of thy fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, One God, and unto Him we have surrendered. (133)
Alhamdulillah SubhanAllah Insha Allah, you have found some benefit in this thread.
